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[zephervack]

The fact that you're saying this is worse than Colonial Marines shows how clueless you are regarding this. Colonial Marine's downgrades went far beyond graphical ones and the game was merely a husk of what it originally promised, not to mention many of the things exemplified in the demos were not present in the original game in any way shape or form.

This is not the case in Dark Souls, unless you consider a spider web or the a door severe downgrades. The people making arguments like you are specifically why I think I disagree with the general tone of this "campaign".

Fair enough, while I sure as hell will enjoy playing Dark Souls 2 as soon as I can get it on my PC, I still cant forget what was promised, not only graphical wise but also the torch game play, I know it remains in the game in a minor form, but people that have played the console version have voiced their opinion saying that you dont really need to use it now.

 

[MogCakes]

Namco and From Software are still stubborn as fuck and have not responded which only deepens the shit they are into. Their silence on this occasion is gold because it just proves that they or one of the parties involved, thought that the gameplay would silence the downgrade or in the best situation be completely ignored.

I doubt we will get an official response unless sales are impacted negatively.

From Software isn't going to respond, Bamco is the one that handles all the PR now. From Soft are the devs of the game and that's it. Blame Bamco for the false advertisement. From's been known to bullshot screens but never to the extent of gameplay footage and not to the degree seen in DSII.

 

[zephervack]

From Software isn't going to respond, Bamco is the one that handles all the PR now. From Soft are the devs of the game and that's it. Blame Bamco for the false advertisement. From's been known to bullshot screens but never to the extent of gameplay footage and not to the degree seen in DSII.

FROM publishes the game in Japan I think, so shame on them too.

 

[kvn]

From the comparison screens, I guess I see some of your points.

To the other just normal in game stuff, that's all pretty standard for Souls games.

Regardless, Im having a blast with the game and this is my 3rd Souls game!

From's the publisher in Japan. They have also been shittalking in interviews and praising their new horrible engine. In addition to the false advertising from bamco.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

No. I have just opened a single direct feed capture someone posted, and found color values up to 250 and down to 7 in that. That is already 100% proof the game isn't outputting limited range (which goes from 15-235).

I scanned through the thread & only found that nynt9 posted direct screen grabs of the retail game:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=104307183&postcount=359


Opened MS paint, added a pure black rectangle to the right of the picture.
Cut out square sections of the screen grab that displays all black & moved those square "black" against the right all black rectangle:
Those black square should blend in completely against the all black rectangle on the right if they are at the correct color range & the direct screen grab is able to display a full black.

Positive proof that the game is running the incorrect color range.
Namco sabotaged FromSoftware.

 

[Havel]

FROM publishes the game in Japan I think, so shame on them too.

That Japanese cover is gorgeous though.

 

[kvn]

That Japanese cover is gorgeous though.

They're always better imho :-/

 

[Vizzeh]

I scanned through the thread & only found that nynt9 posted direct screen grabs of the retail game:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=104307183&postcount=359


Opened MS paint, added a pure black rectangle to the right of the picture.
Cut out square sections of the screen grab that displays all black & moved those square "black" against the right all black rectangle:
Those black square should blend in completely against the all black rectangle on the right if they are at the correct color range & the direct screen grab is able to display a full black.

Positive proof that the game is running the incorrect color range.
Namco sabotaged FromSoftware.

Great find. Have you experimented with settings to fix the black levels without destroying the other colour/brightness levels/detail?

 

[Havel]

They're always better imho :-/

Well.

Not always.

 

[kvn]

Well.

Not always.

Touché.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

Think you have the TV's in both Mixed up? PS3/360 Expanded/RGB Full = TV Black levels High, PS3 RGB Limited = TV Black levels low.

Or your TV is labeled differently to mine

Yeah, my TV labels the HDMI full option as HDMI low & HDMI limited option as HDMI Normal.
A lot of manufacturers have different names & labels for them.
One example is the Xbox 360, which uses their weird naming, while the PS3 uses the correct terminology.


I still can't fucking believe there had been what? Over 80 professional game reviews & not a single one of them knows anything about audio/video science.

I'm also disappointed that no videophiles seem to be playing Dark Souls 2, as they would have instantly noticed the problem within literally seconds of starting the game.

 

[Eusis]

Why should FROM and Namco get better treatmeant from the community when they did something as bad or worse than Colonial Marines.

. . . Because they still delivered a great game at least by the measures of most people, while Aliens was generally considered pure trash? What happened here isn't Aliens, it's more like with Uncharted 3 or something, where we get a really good looking reveal and the final game doesn't match up.

 

[Sephzilla]

Why should FROM and Namco get better treatmeant from the community when they did something as bad or worse than Colonial Marines.

Because unlike Colonial Marines, Dark Souls 2 is still a very good video game.

 

[Stet]

I scanned through the thread & only found that nynt9 posted direct screen grabs of the retail game:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=104307183&postcount=359


Opened MS paint, added a pure black rectangle to the right of the picture.
Cut out square sections of the screen grab that displays all black & moved those square "black" against the right all black rectangle:
Those black square should blend in completely against the all black rectangle on the right if they are at the correct color range & the direct screen grab is able to display a full black.

Positive proof that the game is running the incorrect color range.
Namco sabotaged FromSoftware.

This is NOT colour analysis.

This is proper colour analysis.

min: 0,0,0
max: 255,255,255

 

[MogCakes]

FROM publishes the game in Japan I think, so shame on them too.

Are any of the screens and gameplay footage in this thread from the JP trailers/ads put out by From Soft? If they are then I stand corrected, if not my point stands.

 

[zephervack]

Are any of the screens and gameplay footage in this thread from the JP trailers/ads put out by From Soft? If they are then I stand corrected, if not my point stands.

Well, TGS Demo is from the Tokyo Game Show.

 

[Ketch]

If the PC version looks the same as pre release footage and they had released both versions on the same day, they would have avoided this huge mess.

Even if they only delayed PC version to work on it a bit longer (def cash grab IMHO) they still should have waited for a simultaneous release.

Instead of "OMG they lied!" It would be "this game looks amazing, console port is garbage tho."

 

[Tex117]

From's the publisher in Japan. They have also been shittalking in interviews and praising their new horrible engine. In addition to the false advertising from bamco.

I know the publisher in Japan.

Horrible seems a bit of an overstatement.

Bamco...well...maybe.

I

 

[Gator86]

(One of the biggest problems for those of us playing the PS3 disc version are the excruciatingly long loading times.)

• Objects and enemies materializing out of thin air.
• Flickering shadows and light sources.
• Out of sync sound effects.
• Mob animations either freezing entirely or moving at lower FPS (like 5 FPS low).
• Input lag both in the menus' and HUD screens.
• Input lag during gameplay (character not reacting at all).
• Player being "smelted into the wall" during a Boss fight.
• Painful loading times (18 seconds on average for me: quickest was 14s. longest took 42s.)
• Very inconsistent framerate (going from the higher 10s up to 60fps when nothing is happening on screen)
  

Beat the game yesterday and I had all of these during play. The input lag, or complete non-reactions, are absolutely nightmarish. Sometimes you just have zero control over your character. Lost track of how many times I just ate an attack because my character decided they weren't interested in rolling or blocking.

 

[Liberty4all]

Just so I am clear, this downgrade affected the 360 version as well as PS3, correct?

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

I don't mean for this to sound like port begging, it's more about being uninformed and out of the loop. Is there a PS4/XBO versions coming?

 

[Havel]

Just so I am clear, this downgrade affected the 360 version as well as PS3, correct?

Yep.

 

[epmode]

Just so I am clear, this downgrade affected the 360 version as well as PS3, correct?

Yes. The other big question is whether or not it affects the PC version but I can understand if you're not so interested in that.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I don't mean for this to sound like port begging, it's more about being uninformed and out of the loop. Is there a PS4/XBO versions coming?

Seeing Thief PS4/Xbone and Tomb Raider Definitive Edition sales, I think we can expect more up-ports. I'm pretty sure is coming and will be announced on E3.

 

[Fallout-NL]

I don't mean for this to sound like port begging, it's more about being uninformed and out of the loop. Is there a PS4/XBO versions coming?

A significant difference in the PC version could indicate the coming of those versions.

 

[zephervack]

I don't mean for this to sound like port begging, it's more about being uninformed and out of the loop. Is there a PS4/XBO versions coming?

They keep saying they have no plans, but they released a couple of videos saying that they were designing the engine/game with Next gen in mind.

Without knowing anything, I would guess they will release a "GOTY" version on Next gen, probably next year.

 

[ys45]

Beat the game yesterday and I had all of these during play. The input lag, or complete non-reactions, are absolutely nightmarish. Sometimes you just have zero control over your character. Lost track of how many times I just ate an attack because my character decided they weren't interested in rolling or blocking.

Damn that sound worse than Dark Souls performance .
The last gen console was clearly a mistake for this game or they simply rushed this one.

 

[Grief.exe]

Yes. The other big question is whether or not it affects the PC version but I can understand if you're not so interested in that.

That is the biggest question right now.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

This is NOT colour analysis.

This is proper colour analysis.

min: 0,0,0
max: 255,255,255

I have no idea what settings or what program you used, but
if it is telling you this is displaying 0,0,0 black in relation to the black bar to the right.
[img[http://i2.minus.com/ivRsQEhnsi1fg.jpg[/img]
then there is something wrong with your calibration device.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

Thanks for the replies. I have a lot of games on my plate, and will hold off for a next Gen version. If one never comes, I'll just get the 360 version at some point.

 

[KennyLinder]

(One of the biggest problems for those of us playing the PS3 disc version are the excruciatingly long loading times.)

• 
  [*]Objects and enemies materializing out of thin air.
  [*]Flickering shadows and light sources.
  [*]Out of sync sound effects.
• Mob animations either freezing entirely or moving at lower FPS (like 5 FPS low).
  [*]Input lag both in the menus' and HUD screens.
  [*]Input lag during gameplay (character not reacting at all).
• Player being "smelted into the wall" during a Boss fight.
  [*]Painful loading times (18 seconds on average for me: quickest was 14s. longest took 42s.)
  [*]Very inconsistent framerate (going from the higher 10s up to 60fps when nothing is happening on screen)
  

Getting LOTS of these, feels messy compared to DkS1. Hoping for a big update!

 

[justjustin]

Positive proof that the game is running the incorrect color range.
Namco sabotaged FromSoftware.

I think it's only proof that the colors you expect to be pure black are actually a very dark gray. It could just as likely be the case that the not-quite-black colors were programmed deliberately, and the game can handle full color space just fine. I expect complete darkness to be pure black too, but it doesn't necessarily mean there is an error if that is not the case. Wasn't it the same situation in Dark and Demon's Souls?

 

[see5harp]

The only major issue I've had is pressing the start menu and waiting like 2 seconds for the game to even load the start menu text. Sometimes you press attack 3 times but only 2 come out...although that may be intentional with the way this game works. I hope the PC version is a substantial upgrade on lighting-but I doubt stuff like dragons in the sky that were fully taken out will be there.

 

[zma1013]

Beat the game yesterday and I had all of these during play. The input lag, or complete non-reactions, are absolutely nightmarish. Sometimes you just have zero control over your character. Lost track of how many times I just ate an attack because my character decided they weren't interested in rolling or blocking.

Damn that sound worse than Dark Souls performance .
The last gen console was clearly a mistake for this game or they simply rushed this one.

Well to be fair, I had input lag and just plain input refusal sometimes in Dark Souls 1. I got killed a few times because I pressed the attack button and it didn't register for a solid 3 seconds and so my character just sits there and gets attacked and there is nothing I can do until the animation decides it wants to start. This game seems about the same for me so far. It's like there's some invisible queue or something that actions get stuck in sometimes.

 

[atr0cious]

Damn that sound worse than Dark Souls performance .
The last gen console was clearly a mistake for this game or they simply rushed this one.

Why do people keep saying this, as if any of these games are a technical marvel? This game shouldn't look the way it does, even if this just is the console version. I get free games on PS+ that look and play better than this. FROM have never been wizards, but seeing PC players saying console gamers should be thankful they just got the game, it's like they forget this is the third game in a console franchise.

 

[Windom Earle]

(One of the biggest problems for those of us playing the PS3 disc version are the excruciatingly long loading times.)

• Objects and enemies materializing out of thin air.
• Flickering shadows and light sources.
• Out of sync sound effects.
• Mob animations either freezing entirely or moving at lower FPS (like 5 FPS low).
• Input lag both in the menus' and HUD screens.
• Input lag during gameplay (character not reacting at all).
• Player being "smelted into the wall" during a Boss fight.
• Painful loading times (18 seconds on average for me: quickest was 14s. longest took 42s.)
• Very inconsistent framerate (going from the higher 10s up to 60fps when nothing is happening on screen)
  

So glad I decided to wait. Even if the PC version is downgraded as well, at least it will brute force through some of those issues. This is bullshit, FROM.

 

[ys45]

Well to be fair, I had input lag and just plain input refusal sometimes in Dark Souls 1. I got killed a few times because I pressed the attack button and it didn't register for a solid 3 seconds and so my character just sits there and gets attacked and there is nothing I can do until the animation decides it wants to start. This game seems about the same for me so far. It's like there's some invisible queue or something that actions get stuck in sometimes.

I'd say it's related to the netcode/lag maybe ?
I played mostly DS offline and never had this problem .

 

[epmode]

seeing PC players saying console gamers should be thankful they just got the game

Link pls.

 

[Stet]

I have no idea what settings or what program you used, but
if it is telling you this is displaying 0,0,0 black in relation to the black bar to the right.
[img[http://i2.minus.com/ivRsQEhnsi1fg.jpg[/img]
then there is something wrong with your calibration device.

That the specific square you chose is not black is not the fault of the output, it's the fault of your selection.

There are pixels of 0,0,0 and 255,255,255 being output by the hardware -- whether or not that's in the UI or what, that doesn't matter. It means the software is working as intended and artificially crushing the colours is not in any way a "bug fix."

 

[justjustin]

Well to be fair, I had input lag and just plain input refusal sometimes in Dark Souls 1. I got killed a few times because I pressed the attack button and it didn't register for a solid 3 seconds and so my character just sits there and gets attacked and there is nothing I can do until the animation decides it wants to start. This game seems about the same for me so far. It's like there's some invisible queue or something that button presses get stuck in sometimes.

I remember a really bad bug in Dark Souls where the game would store a queued attack command indefinitely. I'd press L1 to put up my shield and my guy would do his R1 attack. I think it was mostly ironed out in patches, but it still happens sometimes.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

I think it's only proof that the colors you expect to be pure black are actually a very dark gray. It could just as likely be the case that the not-quite-black colors were programmed deliberately, and the game can handle full color space just fine. I expect complete darkness to be pure black too, but it doesn't necessarily mean there is an error if that is not the case. Wasn't it the same situation in Dark and Demon's Souls?

Damn, people really want to believe this isn't true.

This is only true if, the black bars during cinematic & the black behind the title screen were also not-quite-black colors were programmed deliberately.

 

[atr0cious]

Link pls.

http://hexus.net/gaming/news/industry/67449-dark-souls-2-fans-angry-console-graphics-downgrade/

Seems like alot of the owners of last gen consoles are raging because they got substandard graphics on such an old platform... should be thankful they got the game at all, very surprised people expected PS4/XBONE and PC like graphics on a 360 or PS3, demo footage on PC so you cant expect like for like!

Need to play dark souls at some point .

And the same sentiment has been repeated a lot in this thread as well.

 

[Grief.exe]

The screenshots on the Steam store page seem to be pre-downgrade to me, and if the Bandai PR rep is to be believed, these were taken directly from the PC version.

The lighting does not look flat and these dark areas look washed out in the console release. The first screenshot even shows the same geometry/textures as the console version.

 

[Arkanius]

The screenshots on the Steam store page seem to be pre-downgrade to me, and if the Bandai PR rep is to be believed, these were taken directly from the PC version.

The lighting does not look flat and these dark areas look washed out in the console release. The first screenshot even shows the same geometry/textures as the console version.

It doesn't look the same lightning engine.
But it doesn't seem the greyish darkness that the consoles gave us

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

That the specific square you chose is not black is not the fault of the output, it's the fault of your selection.

There are pixels of 0,0,0 and 255,255,255 being output by the hardware -- whether or not that's in the UI or what, that doesn't matter. It means the software is working as intended and artificially crushing the colours is not in any way a "bug fix."

I highlighted the picture, just to make sure the most of the parts I cut out were pure black & didn't have too much lighter shades of black within in.

Most of the squares are from a pure black void.

Your only correct if the picture shows grey instead of black when there is a void devoid of any light ahead of you in the game.
If this is true, then that's a pretty big change from Demon Souls & Dark Souls.

 

[epmode]

http://hexus.net/gaming/news/industry/67449-dark-souls-2-fans-angry-console-graphics-downgrade/


And the same sentiment has been repeated a lot in this thread as well.

I was looking for a post on GAF. I didn't notice anyone saying such ridiculous stuff in this thread.

From could have handled this in a few different ways, all of which are better than what we have now:

1. Don't make a 360/PS3 port in the first place. Stick with PS4/XBone/PC.

2. Once it became obvious that current gen consoles couldn't handle the improved lighting and assets, redesign the affected areas so that it doesn't look like garbage. This would have required a delay, though, and Namco apparently didn't care that the final result is so schizophrenic.

 

[Easy_D]

I highlighted the picture, just to make sure the most of the parts I cut out were pure black & didn't have too much lighter shades of black within in.

Most of the squares are from a pure black void.

Your only correct if the picture shows grey instead of black when there is a void devoid of any light ahead of you in the game.
If this is true, then that's a pretty big change from Demon Souls & Dark Souls.

Your pure black squares are lighter than the dark area you pasted them onto. How can they be pure black? I'm confused.

 

[Vitor711]

The screenshots on the Steam store page seem to be pre-downgrade to me, and if the Bandai PR rep is to be believed, these were taken directly from the PC version.

The lighting does not look flat and these dark areas look washed out in the console release. The first screenshot even shows the same geometry/textures as the console version.

Why must you stoke the fires of hope in my beating heart? Really want FROM or NAMCO to just come out and clear things up already.

 

[Easy_D]

I was looking for a post on GAF. I didn't notice anyone saying such ridiculous stuff in this thread.

From could have handled this in a few different ways, all of which are better than what we have now:

1. Don't make a 360/PS3 port in the first place. Stick with PS4/XBone/PC.

2. Once it became obvious that current gen consoles couldn't handle the improved lighting and assets, redesign the affected areas so that it doesn't look like garbage.

How big was the team anyway? Is it possible they knew this would happen quite early on and had two development branches? SOMEONE GIVE ME HOPE.

 

[epmode]

I highlighted the picture, just to make sure the most of the parts I cut out were pure black & didn't have too much lighter shades of black within in.

Most of the squares are from a pure black void.

So you're just eyeballing it? Not the most scientific method!