Support NeoGAF

[RagnarokX]

Stage hazard:

Playable:

Both can be in Pyrosphere at the same time. The playable Ridley could kill the abominable Other M Ridley. They were technically different entities, so why not.

Same entity, different bodies. They still look similar enough that Sakurai would probably deem it confusing. Spirit Tracks Link isn't even dressed like Toon Link and looks very different from regular Link but he still gets replaced by Alfonzo.

 

[exfatal]

Ridley is too big. yea maybe he was small in one game, the first but since then he kept getting bigger. Bowser size has never been consistent in his games. First he's small enough to riding karts around, next he's as big as a building. For Bowser the classic saying comes into account Size doesn't matter.

Anyways Ridley is better off being a boss character, if he was upgrading from anything Sakurai woulda just out right showed him if he was playable like they did little mac. Ridley will forever be a stage hazard. its just easier not to mess with his size to make him comparable to the other fighters, or trying to make a move set around his simple fire blast and tail stabs. And just make him true to his game and make him a stage hazard/ boss

Spoiler

besides we already got charizard, we only need one ugly flying lizard thing

 

[theprodigy]

We should just have a rule that bans discussion of Ridley/Palutena/Leaks and Rumors.

I'm voting in favor out of curiosity to see what ends up being discussed

 

[Axass]

This reminds me of people saying Little Mac isn't suitable for Smash because all he does is punch. Fucking anything can be a Smash character if you put some effort into it.

Those arguments were kinda sad. I don't get people trying to put down other guys' favourite characters because reason Y or X.

 

[Toxi]

We should just have a rule that bans discussion of Ridley/Palutena/Leaks and Rumors.

I hope you loooooove PokeGAF.

 

[DaBoss]

We should just have a rule that bans discussion of Ridley/Palutena/Leaks and Rumors.

Banning is just dumb. Nothing that serious is needed.

But these discussions are just old and over done:
- Ridley
- Palutena
- Acting as if some leaks are confirmed (i.e. Gematsu Leak #1 and #2)
- RosalinaX's rumor (I think it is so bad that it needs to be its own point)

EDIT: I love how the posts responding to your posts just ignore pretty much what majority of the posts in this thread have been about, and it definitely is not any of the above. Hooray for exaggeration.

 

[ArchedThunder]

He was shown during the Stage Bosses segment. Ridley was shown to be a boss. Whether he views the different versions of Ridley as different characters are unknown.

Thanks for the exaggeration. That is greatly needed in this thread with this tired argument.

No, he was teased to be a boss. But do I think Other M Ridley is a boss? Almost definitely. But despite that I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that the shadow we saw of Other M Ridley was actually a player character. I think this is incredibly unlikely though and it is much more likely that classic Ridley would be playable with Other M Ridley as a boss. All I'm saying is that because Sakurai likes to troll and tease his fans we can't take a shadow in a segment as definitive proof of anything.

Same entity, different bodies. They still look similar enough that Sakurai would probably deem it confusing. Spirit Tracks Link isn't even dressed like Toon Link and looks very different from regular Link but he still gets replaced by Alfonzo.

No, they aren't. Other M Ridley is a clone and that is it, there was no mind transfer or anything like that. We went over this before.

 

[RagnarokX]

I'm voting in favor out of curiosity to see what ends up being discussed

"I bet Starfy is playable. When he's being played he doesn't appear from Assist Trophies!"

"Waluigi is probably playable. Sakurai was just trolling about him being an AT."

 

[Kriken]

We should just have a rule that bans discussion of Ridley/Palutena/Leaks and Rumors.

All that will remain is a thread with Intelliheath and theprodigy *Shudders*

 

[-Horizon-]

hey guys is my predicted roster good?

I'm not a playable character? :/

I'm voting in favor out of curiosity to see what ends up being discussed

I hope you loooooove PokeGAF.

4th day into no rumors SmashGAF: so if Arceus is god then what does that make Mew?

 

[Berordn]

Banning is just dumb. Nothing that serious is needed.

community policing, obviously

anytime someone mentions those we give them the evil eye until they leave

 

[Kyzon]

So we can agree that a form of Ridley is definitely a boss, right? That would mean that Sakurai thinks of Ridley as a boss character still. That's the same view he had of Ridley in Brawl. He apparently hasn't changed his mind.

So far Sakurai has given us every indication that his view of Ridley hasn't changed at all. You're reaching for clues that aren't there and ignoring the ones that are.


Apparently Sakurai thinks otherwise, he's been playable in three games.

Exactly. Just because they're boss material in their respective canon doesn't mean they aren't also playable material.

I'd actually love playing as Ridley and during his final smash other versions of Ridley come out and attack enemies.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

If there's a different way to unlock the characters, fine, but not everyone has both systems.

I highly doubt that'll be what links together.

"Linking together the console and handheld release to unlock more shit" has been a Nintendo trope since the N64, so this wouldn't be the first time they've done something like that, and considering how dire the Wii U situation is, Nintendo might just force something like this on Sakurai to help boost system sales.

 

[Neiteio]

My thoughts on the Ridley situation are summed up thusly:

- The shadow is definitely Other M Ridley, who is a stage hazard on Pyrosphere
- It is unlikely that any form of Ridley is playable in the game
- However, the above do not rule out the possibility a different version of Ridley is playable
- You could have a situation where Other M Ridley is the stage hazard while another version of Ridley is playable
- They are, after all, different entities, different bodies, different styles, etc
- Would also explain why Sakurai didn't explicitly rule out playable Ridley like he did with Waluigi as AT

 

[Terrell]

Ridley could go either way. And no one side can say, "Aha, it was so obvious" if they end up right, because both sides have good cases that show either outcome is a possibility given what was (and wasn't) shown.

One side applies logic, reason and actual existing knowledge, the other doesn't and insists at a "hidden message" narrative that only exists in their minds and how anything less than a playable Ridley is "cruel trolling", or worse yet, that we will have double the Ridley to justify their position.

As Burgess Meredith's character in Grumpy Old Men said, "you can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets filled first."

I'll be glad when summer hits.

 

[Toxi]

Ridley is too big. ]

Nobody gives a shit about scale in Smash.

If you gave a shit, you stopped when Brawl had Olimar as big as Squirtle while Charizard wasn't five times larger than Pikachu.

And then there's Ness on Fourside.

 

[-Horizon-]

community policing, obviously

anytime someone mentions those we give them the evil eye until they leave

RIP in peace Horizon ;-;

 

[Beelzebufo]

Thanks for the exaggeration. That is greatly needed in this thread with this tired argument.

It's not really an exaggeration.

No he hasn't, he's teased Ridley, and that's it. I'm not ignoring anything, I'm saying it's foolish to say that he won't be in just as it is foolish to say that he will be in. You are just being difficult.

He's almost definitely a boss, and a boss character is where Sakurai thought he belonged last time. Going on past experiences and what we've seen so far, Ridley will probably just be a boss again. Compare this to the arguments for him, for which there's none at all.

The "too big" argument has been disproven in many ways: Olimar, character comparisons, original Ridley being basically as big as Samus, etc.

Olimar is a playable character, it's obviously not comparable. Original Ridley is now huge, the small one was retconned.

FTFY

I stand corrected haha

 

[Kyzon]

I'm voting in favor out of curiosity to see what ends up being discussed

I can't imagine anything else to talk about other than that. It's pretty much all of smashgaf convo outside of reveals.

One side applies logic, reason and actual existing knowledge, the other doesn't and insists at a "hidden message" narrative that only exists in their minds and how anything less than a playable Ridley is "cruel trolling".

As Burgess Meredith's character in Grumpy Old Men said, "you can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets filled first."

I'll be glad when summer hits.

We have that wager for Ridley Scott correct?

 

[ArchedThunder]

Ridley is too big. yea maybe he was small in one game, the first but since then he kept getting bigger. Bowser size has never been consistent in his games. First he's small enough to riding karts around, next he's as big as a building. For Bowser the classic saying comes into account Size doesn't matter.

Olimar is the size of a battery. Mewtwo is 6'7" and yet he is barely taller than the 1'4" Pikachu in Smash. ROB is a fucking toy. Size has never mattered in Smash.

 

[The Bankslammer]

i hope there's a way that ridley both is and isn't a playable character at the same time because really nobody deserves vindication

 

[theprodigy]

All that will remain is a thread with Intelliheath and theprodigy *Shudders*

Toxi can bring in PokeGAF too

 

[Neiteio]

One side applies logic, reason and actual existing knowledge, the other doesn't and insists at a "hidden message" narrative that only exists in their minds and how anything less than a playable Ridley is "cruel trolling".

As Burgess Meredith's character in Grumpy Old Men said, "you can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets filled first."

I'll be glad when summer hits.

As someone who is firmly in the middle, I can say you haven't been listening to the other side if that's how you characterize them.

Here are the facts:

- A shadow that resembles Ridley was shown during the stage hazards segment
- The shadow resembles Other M Ridley
- There are multiple Ridleys in Metroid canon, varying wildly in appearance (see Other M Ridley)
- With past characters -- Waluigi, Ashley, etc -- Sakurai explicitly established what they were and how they're not playable

Those are the facts. And they don't logically preclude either outcome.

 

[RagnarokX]

No, they aren't. Other M Ridley is a clone and that is it, there was no mind transfer or anything like that. We went over this before.

Who said there had to be a mind transfer. In Other M he appears to remember Samus. The Metroid franchise is heavily "inspired" by the Alien franchise (and by that I mean they lift ideas wholesale, especially in Fusion and Other M), which includes ideas like PTSD and genetic memory. Ripley clone in Alien Resurrection retained her memories because of the Xenomorph DNA that got mixed with hers.

All we can say is it's not conclusive either way, but considering his actions in Other M it looks like Ridley is his old self on the inside.

 

[KHlover]

Totally unrelated but I'd love (I know it is never going to happen) some No More Heroes 2 representation in SSB4, just to have those songs in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFXqJ--L_Kk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNM5mFQ9siI&index=2

Sooo good, in fact I think I'll have to replace my Final Destination music in Project:M once again :O

 

[Beelzebufo]

Olimar is the size of a battery. Mewtwo is 6'7" and yet he is barely taller than the 1'4" Pikachu in Smash. ROB is a fucking toy. Size has never mattered in Smash.

You're missing the point. The problem is that Sakurai saw those characters and said "ah it doesn't matter" and made them playable. In Brawl, Sakurai looked at Ridley's size and said "This guy should be a boss". Then he made him two bosses because people love him. From what he's shown us, he'll probably be a boss again. There's a fundamental difference between the two.

 

[ArchedThunder]

i hope there's a way that ridley both is and isn't a playable character at the same time because really nobody deserves vindication

Zero Suit Samus's new Final Smash is her turning into Ridley for a bit.

 

[Neiteio]

In a hilarious twist, the Kraid from Super Metroid is playable and he is depicted to scale.

 

[DaBoss]

community policing, obviously

anytime someone mentions those we give them the evil eye until they leave

Oh, then yea, community policing would be nice, but given the history in these threads, I doubt that would be successful.

i hope there's a way that ridley both is and isn't a playable character at the same time because really nobody deserves vindication

I know that feeling.

Ridley is my most wanted newcomer besides Mega Man, but I absolutely despise to what extent Ridley supporters and haters go to in discussions. It is just endless circles of nonsense.

I liked how he was a boss in Brawl. That was pretty cool.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Who said there had to be a mind transfer. In Other M he appears to remember Samus. The Metroid franchise is heavily "inspired" by the Alien franchise (and by that I mean they lift ideas wholesale, especially in Fusion and Other M), which includes ideas like PTSD and genetic memory. Ripley clone in Alien Resurrection retained her memories because of the Xenomorph DNA that got mixed with hers.

All we can say is it's not conclusive either way, but considering his actions in Other M it looks like Ridley is his old self on the inside.

Toxi already tore that theory apart and I really don't want to go grab that post.

You're missing the point. The problem is that Sakurai saw those characters and said "ah it doesn't matter" and made them playable. In Brawl, Sakurai looked at Ridley's size and said "This guy should be a boss". Then he made him two bosses because people love him. From what he's shown us, he'll probably be a boss again. There's a fundamental difference between the two.

Okay, I'm legitimately done with you, you just won't listen.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Zero Suit Samus's new Final Smash is her turning into Ridley for a bit.

 

[Kyzon]

Totally unrelated but I'd love (I know it is never going to happen) some No More Heroes 2 representation in SSB4, just to have those songs in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFXqJ--L_Kk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNM5mFQ9siI&index=2

Sooo good, in fact I think I'll have to replace my Final Destination music in Project:M once again :O

Yo. I like you!

Fav song in that game.

 

[Toxi]

Who said there had to be a mind transfer. In Other M he appears to remember Samus. The Metroid franchise is heavily "inspired" by the Alien franchise, which includes ideas like genetic memory. Ripley clone in Alien Resurrection retained her memories because of the Xenomorph DNA that got mixed with hers.

All we can say is it's not conclusive either way, but considering his actions in Other M it looks like Ridley is his old self on the inside.

While Other M certainly shares its quality with Alien Resurrection, I remain completely unconvinced by your argument that Ridley remembers Samus in that game, mainly because it's complete fanon and there's no mention of Ridley having genetic memory in the Metroid series.

Seriously, you made up an entire theory about Ridley's species to explain something basic as him attacking Samus. It's the equivalent of me trying to explain Other M's trainwreck of a plot by saying the Adam there was an evil robot duplicate.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Okay, I'm legitimately done with you, you just won't listen.

I think we can all appreciate the irony here.

Anyway, what do you guys think the lava on Pyrosphere does?

 

[Axass]

All that will remain is a thread with Intelliheath and theprodigy *Shudders*

I LOLed.

Olimar is a playable character, it's obviously not comparable.

How so? Sakurai himself acknoledged that in Smash size isn't canon and constant with other games in one PotD.

 

[exfatal]

You're missing the point. The problem is that Sakurai saw those characters and said "ah it doesn't matter" and made them playable. In Brawl, Sakurai looked at Ridley's size and said "This guy should be a boss". Then he made him two bosses because people love him. From what he's shown us, he'll probably be a boss again. There's a fundamental difference between the two.

thank you, but regradless people will ignore it and continue to believe what they want, then complain when the obvious does happen. its alright to talk about your favorite character getting in. But its getting old for 1, and 2 Ridley was perfect as a boss character in brawl. But hey if i'm wrong then more power to the believers i'm always up for new characters.

Spoiler

ultimate Sakurai troll 3 ridley's in the game, one is stage hazard, second is boss, 3rd is assist trophy

 

[Kyzon]

I think we can all appreciate the irony here.

Anyway, what do you guys think the lava on Pyrosphere does?

Same thing it always does. Try to take over the stage.

 

[jph139]

Creepy teenage Ridley is the obvious solution to all of these problems.

Spoiler

I actually like Other M's concept of a Ridley life cycle.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

I think we can all appreciate the irony here.

Anyway, what do you guys think the lava on Pyrosphere does?

It occasionally fills the stage, causing damage and blowback the second you touch it and making it a real pain in the ass to KO anyone.

 

[CorvoSol]

In a hilarious twist, the Kraid from Super Metroid is playable and he is depicted to scale.

The Metroid boss PC Smash deserves.

 

[C.Olimar788]

I think we can all appreciate the irony here.

Anyway, what do you guys think the lava on Pyrosphere does?

Hopefully nothing. Lava/acid hazards in Metroid stages are getting incredibly old, especially since they barely even slightly represent Metroid as a series.

Speaking of, Phendrana Drifts needs to be a stage so badly. It's not even funny.

 

[theprodigy]

This topic just took a turn into hell lol

 

[RagnarokX]

Toxi already tore that theory apart and I really don't want to go grab that post.

But he didn't. He said some things about Ridley's behavior in Other M and then I posted the cutscene he was talking about and it wasn't as he described. Ridley was clearly going after Samus and not anyone else. He only involved others if they got in his way.

 

[Axass]

One side applies logic, reason and actual existing knowledge, the other doesn't and insists at a "hidden message" narrative that only exists in their minds and how anything less than a playable Ridley is "cruel trolling", or worse yet, that we will have double the Ridley to justify their position.

More like, both sides use logic, but one side discredits the other side saying they're delusionals and refusing to acknowledge any prospected possibility.

hey guys is my predicted roster good?

No Dixie, no Ridley, no Mewtwo... and who's that guy on the right side? I give you a B.

 

[Majukun]

original ridley will be playable

or maybe just to troll people even more,the newcomer from metroid will be kraid

 

[Beelzebufo]

How so? Sakurai himself acknoledged that in Smash size isn't canon and constant with other games in one PotD.

Olimar was included in Brawl as a playable character (which is basically as soon as he could have been). Olimar wasn't first added as a microscopic SSE plot element or whatever, and wasn't teased as a microscopic stage hazard before being revealed for Smash 4.

That problem isn't that it's impossible to resize Ridley, the problem is that Sakurai shows every indication of viewing him purely as a boss character. He basically has a boss fight with Samus in the Melee opening as well.

Same thing it always does. Try to take over the stage.

That'd make sense, but we haven't seen varying lava levels have we?

Hopefully nothing. Lava/acid hazards in Metroid stages are getting incredibly old, especially since they barely even slightly represent Metroid as a series.

Speaking of, Phendrana Drifts needs to be a stage so badly. It's not even funny.

That's what I originally though, but it's interesting that it's absent in the FD version.

What irony? The irony that I said outright that Other M Ridley is probably a boss but that doesn't mean normal Ridley can't be playable because they are different characters but you keep spouting "RIDLEY WAS SHOWN AS A BOSS"? Or the irony that your only other argument was that "Sakurai thinks this". Are you Sakurai?

The irony was that you're the one who refuses to listen.

 

[ffdgh]

Ridley's heels are too big.

 

[ArchedThunder]

I think we can all appreciate the irony here.

What irony? The irony that I said outright that Other M Ridley is probably a boss but that doesn't mean normal Ridley can't be playable because they are different characters but you keep spouting "RIDLEY WAS SHOWN AS A BOSS"? Or the irony that your only other argument was that "Sakurai thinks this". Are you Sakurai?

 

[Toxi]

But he didn't. He said some things about Ridley's behavior in Other M and then I posted the cutscene he was talking about and it wasn't as he described. Ridley was clearly going after Samus and not anyone else. He only involved others if they got in his way.

Okay, he was going after Samus because he saw her as a baby and wanted to get rid of a competitor for top predator.

Wow, that's a much more elegant and simple explanation than "Ridley's species has te magical ability to remember everything previous Ridleys did even though this was never brought up in the actual Metroid series."

Also, the last part is completely false when he killed and fed on Lyle to reach his second form.

 

[Kyzon]

Olimar was included in Brawl as a playable character (which is basically as soon as he could have been). Olimar wasn't first added as a microscopic SSE plot element or whatever, and wasn't teased as a microscopic stage hazard before being revealed for Smash 4.

That problem isn't that it's impossible to resize Ridley, the problem is that Sakurai shows every indication of viewing him purely as a boss character. He basically has a boss fight with Samus in the Melee opening as well.


That'd make sense, but we haven't seen varying lava levels have we?


That's what I originally though, but it's interesting that it's absent in the FD version.


The irony was that you're the one who refuses to listen.

We haven't but why else would it stop pouring in the Glory version?

To be fair, we haven't seen too much of the stage actually. It's mostly close ups of random stuff on the stage.