Unspeakable Evil
Member
BOOYAH
I'm sure many dudes beat their meat while looking at Raven's legs.
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Cyborg Cast for Man of Steel Sequel
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Delta Assault
Member
How many superfucks are gonna be in this movie?
Also, I thought this was Hank Henshaw at first.
Also, I thought this was Hank Henshaw at first.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Just call it Justice League already.
Yep. That happened in the Geoff Johns JL origin run. Hopefully it will diferent for this movie.
D
Deleted member 284
Unconfirmed Member
It's an amazing mash, but no. They are from two different episodes.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Wouldn't you need the justice league characters to play a major part to call it that ?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yes. Those comics were all shit, and none of those heroes, save Spawn, have left any discernable cultural imprint.
As it stands, Image basically has Invincible as a salable superhero property. And that's about it. There are great stories & characters, yeah, but people don't think Superheroes and flash on Image books at this point. At least not primarily.
Image's business model now is essentially "You've got a book? You got a FINISHED book? We'll publish it if its good."
They're almost like old school Miramax at this point. They're fucking GREAT at acquiring material and distributing it, and when they do fund their own projects, they enjoy some significant success, both businesswise and culturally. But it also says something that people don't ascribe those successes so much to Image comics, but to the creators of the comics themselves.
I feel like at this point, we're debating the specifics of my example instead of getting at what the example was intended to highlight: A lot of viewers/readers who care to follow this sort of thing seem to be more inclined to credit the executives for putting together big crossover events than they do the creatives for making their ideas come to life. It's happened frequently in the comics, and it's happening now on the film side of things. It's why people speak of "Marvel" and "WB" as if they're actual people, instead of media corporations.
Maninthemirror
Banned
What i envision happening is lex courts superman to do his bidding for the us government. Batman and the rest of dc heroes play a part in taming superman back to the good side. Then the justice league is complete. Batman will play the major role but every dc hero in this will play his or her part part in taking down superman from his corrupted ego due to lex. The next movie will have lex as the villian . This goes in line with the theme of the dark knight returns too
ChocolateCupcakes
Member
No way its going to be more than Clark at some football game (because 'merica) and he'll comment about that 'Stone kid'. End scene.
Meh.
I know other people like him cause of the JLA cartoons, but I think he's dull as dirt. Would much rather have one of the other two I mentioned.
Who knows? I have to believe it was on the table at some point because it makes too much sense.
Same. As much as everyone is saying this movie is "bloated," I can easily see how all the pieces fit together....except Diana.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Not really. How much did Hawkeye have to do in Avengers?
Nah. Superman will show up for some positive publicity.
"Hey kid, good arm."
"OMG, I don't even care that my grandma was crushed in the ensuing destruction from your fight with Zod, imma inspired to be a hero now."
Actually more than I expected with that whole mindcontrol subplot.
Manmademan
Member
you know what they say about opinions and assholes. Shit or no (we ARE talking 1992- feel free to name books of your own that were superior at that time), those titles were extremely popular and extremely profitable- as much or moreso than Marvel or DC during that period. Which was the point of the argument. Fans followed the creators they liked OVER the established superhero mega-franchises and it worked.
Which has nothing to do with the business model of image in it's prime. Image went through several well publicized clashes between its creators, which was why the model wasn't sustainable in the long run. Liefeld was more or less ousted as CEO, Silvestri removed Top Cow for a time, and Lee took wildstorm's properties (along with cliffhanger) to DC. When creators have total control over their creations, that sort of thing is prone to happen.
Those left behind are still talented, but don't have a fraction of the draw or following that image's big names (which was pretty much EVERYONE) did in 1992-1993- Kirkman aside.
And this again is complete bull. Big mega crossover events have been a staple of comics since "Mutant Massacre" back in the 1980s. They're old hat by now. For every one you could name, I could name five you've forgotten about, or never heard of.
Fans flock to WELL WRITTEN and drawn events, and ignore or flee from those that are terrible. Infinity sells a truckload, while Fear Itself and Age of Ultron fall flat. It's not the "executive concept" of a big superhero fight that sells a book, it's **whether or not the art and writing are compelling**. Executives can't do that, and don't do that, and pretending that "superhero fans" don't know the difference or don't care is just assholery.
Maninthemirror
Banned
If they follow marvel its following. Let them build it on their own.
MisterHero
Super Member
The Hulk killed some soldiers and he broke Harlem but its okay cuz he killed some aliens too!
Bobby Roberts
Banned
And we're on some agree to disagree type shit, obviously
Apologies if you took it as a personal affront. if that shoe doesn't fit you, don't wear the motherfucker. Lord knows more people could do with better choice in footwear.
If they follow Marvel
"It's too late
Can't think of anything new?
Really, we've seen this already!"
Yup. They can't really win at this point until a movie comes out that garners a positive reaction. Had the reception to MoS been better and they went this route, we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation.
It's not even following. The Donner films set the tone for future SH films to follow, at least in approach. Everyone has been following suit since. What's the problem with following an already established formula that was shown to work? Beats playing fuckit ball like they're doing now.
Should have just stuck with the young JL route instead of jumping ship when they got scared.
Manmademan
Member
And we're on some agree to disagree type shit, obviously
Apologies if you took it as a personal affront. if that shoe doesn't fit you, don't wear the motherfucker. Lord knows more people could do with better choice in footwear.
not personally affronted- this is GAF. Few exceptions aside, forum opinions don't matter to me personally. What does matter is terrible responses and dismissive arguments, and replying to "image's original creator owned properties outsold everything except the absolute most popular franchise marvel has" with "well, those all sucked anyway" is dismissive and terrible.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Then apology rescinded!
You're burrowing into the specifics of my example as a means to sorta get by the reason I brought the example up in the first place. I mean - again, we're on some agree to disagree shit, so I get that you don't believe people here tend to reward the studio/company instead of the creatives who actually make the work. I see it pretty clearly, and frequently. And I see similar behavior in the readers of superhero comics themselves. Not all, of course. But enough to notice, and enough to draw the comparison.
You don't like that, cool. Doesn't mean I don't see it. Image's success with their early, shitpoor, mostly forgotten and largely-derided-when-they-are-remembered superhero comics of the 90s doesn't really have anything to do with that above point. And as you're not interested in further indulging my opinion regarding those bad comics and the detrimental effect they had on the market, their role in leading to the bursting of the speculator's market that artificially inflated the industry to unsustainable levels; and I'm not interested in really pursuing that line of discussion anyway since it has little to do with my initial observance; we should probably just call it a day and agree to disagree on my observation that a lot of people tend to reward the executives over the creatives when it comes to successes - a fact evidenced by a growing tendency to refer to Marvel and WB as if they're people as opposed to conglomerations.
We'd probably be having this conversation, it'd just likely be a little quieter.
crimsonspider89
Banned
They don't have to do 5. People already know Bats. They can do 2 then do this movie. Then do JL.
Or do one before.
WW solo then this then another hero. Then do the JL movie. Don't cram everybody in.
This just screams disaster incoming.
And the reason why they are referred to as people is corporate decisions. The corporates make decisision as does Marvel in comics. And FYI, comic fans follow writers and not events.
There is a reason why Deadly class and Black Science are selling for Image. Same for Manhatton Projects and East of West.
These big name writers people will follow.
Not events. And people bash editorial for being morons for both companies.
When the editorial is to blame, they deserved to be blamed. When they deserve praise, they get praise.
Same goes for the big execs.
Or do one before.
WW solo then this then another hero. Then do the JL movie. Don't cram everybody in.
This just screams disaster incoming.
And the reason why they are referred to as people is corporate decisions. The corporates make decisision as does Marvel in comics. And FYI, comic fans follow writers and not events.
There is a reason why Deadly class and Black Science are selling for Image. Same for Manhatton Projects and East of West.
These big name writers people will follow.
Not events. And people bash editorial for being morons for both companies.
When the editorial is to blame, they deserved to be blamed. When they deserve praise, they get praise.
Same goes for the big execs.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's possible that what we're getting is Justice League Unlimited style storytelling. Essentially - once we establish the Justice League is a thing - EVERY following WB superhero film features multiple Justice League members in it.
You end up with stories that connect, but don't need overarching continuity to connect them. Just the characters.
flaxknuckles
Member
That's not much better lmao
Just_myles
Member
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Come on now, it's Hawkeye! They're doing this with Superman and Wonder Woman. They are most notable and really should probably have their own movies before this is even attempted.
Then again, maybe we don't officially 'see' WW, just Diana.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Superman - done
Batman - done to death
Lex - done
Wonder Woman - this will be her introduction
Cyborg - minor role to establish him in Universe
Whats the problem here? Thats only 1 important hero that really needs to be established atm.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Still that is a slippery slope to go on.
We are talking about several 30 minute cartoons that in one season adds up to about 10 episodes.
Even with the episodes being 15 minutes long not including commercials, that would still be 2 hours and 30 minutes long.
The movie will at tops be 3 hours long. Most likely barely 2 hours.
We are talking about several 30 minute cartoons that in one season adds up to about 10 episodes.
Even with the episodes being 15 minutes long not including commercials, that would still be 2 hours and 30 minutes long.
The movie will at tops be 3 hours long. Most likely barely 2 hours.
Father_Brain
Banned
What press release? It's just Variety for now, though of course they're credible on these things.
Anyway, if it's just a cameo in his Victor Stone identity, I don't really have a problem with it. If it's much more than that... trainwreck increasingly likely.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Pssh... Rock is supposed to have a role as well.
ChocolateCupcakes
Member
Agree, DC's lucky since they have years of establishment from the animated universe.
Look how badly MoS origin turned out, I don't think they want to repeat that mistake.
MisterHero
Super Member
Also IIRC Flash. unless that was just for TV
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Are you sure? He has said recently his DC movie doesn't have a script yet.
That was for tv, Flash was only a rumor before Wonder Woman. Flash movie was supposed to be 2016 but BvsS got pushed back.
Manmademan
Member
Then apology rescinded!
You're burrowing into the specifics of my example as a means to sorta get by the reason I brought the example up in the first place. I mean - again, we're on some agree to disagree shit, so I get that you don't believe people here tend to reward the studio/company instead of the creatives who actually make the work. I see it pretty clearly, and frequently. And I see similar behavior in the readers of superhero comics themselves. Not all, of course. But enough to notice, and enough to draw the comparison.
No, I don't believe that, and I see the exact opposite. There's a fairly active "comic GAF" community here, and you will be hard pressed to find any of those fans that are fans of "marvel" or "dc" rather than individual artists and creators that strike a chord with them. Your mileage may indeed vary.
This is revisionist at best. "Quality" is subjective. I didn't comment about the overall quality of image's early 90s titles, I only indicated that you dismissing literally ALL OF THEM as "shit" was a terrible and dismissive opinion, because it is. The quality of the comics themselves varied quite a bit depending on who was writing them and what the subject matter is. I don't hold Liefeld's work in high regard, but I DO think Sam Keith's "The Maxx" is one of the best comics to come out of that period from anyone, and still holds up today. (at least until Keith clearly ran out of patience for the subject and ended it). if you want to call out "Cyberforce" for being derivative claptrap, feel free to do so, and be specific. But if you want to say LOL 90s COMICS and lump Danger Girl, Deathblow, and The Authority in with it like all creators were doing the same thing then yeah, i'm going to call you out on it.
And blaming image for the 90s speculator bubble is LOLworthy. Marvel and DC had started THAT game long before image was a twinkle in Rob Liefeld's eye. The entire industry was on the wrong track, and image did not put it there. Don't hate the player, if that's the way the game is played. If anything they're the least to blame, since at least if your comic came with a holographic cover at a ludicrous price (and only WILDCATS #2 sticks out in my mind as an example here from them), it's there because the creator decided to put it there, not because of an editorial mandate.
Haven't you heard? Corporations ARE people, my friend! And if you think referring to Marvel and WB as singular entities is some kind of new tendency, feel free to roll over to gaming side. Sony, Nintendo, and MS are used the same way, as are Square/Enix, Capcom, Konami, etc. This doesn't mean that gamers are totally unaware of the impact of individual creators and studios on their properties. Do you think gamers are giving Konami the credit for Metal Gear? or Kojima? Capcom the credit for resident evil? or Shinji Mikami?
Wonder Woman is Lex Luthor's accountant, establishing that Luthor's rich. Cyborg is Lex's 12 years a slave, establishing him as a baddie and explaining his skinhead-ness.
You see, it can work. You just need to be efficient.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
so...Green Arrow is gonna be in this right i mean...free money at this point, id love to see what could happen with even more money behind those chars...
Rock is going to be in a DC movie. We don't know if it's this one or not. It's likely not, since if it were, they'd have announced who he was playing back when he was talking about it.
Its rumored that he's going to be Black Adam, so a Shazam movie will probably come after this but before Justice League obviously.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Heh, no doubt. As James Brown would say, even a blind man could see it.
I never said it was NEW, though.
except that in the Marvel universe the Hulk is first and foremost a monster and not a hero.
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