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[JoshuaJSlone]

1. Final Fantasy X-2 - Amazing gameplay, the best in the series really. Tongue in cheek story which doesn't take itself seriously, cool cast of characters. Entirely different from the normal Final Fantasy and better because of it. Innovative up the ass with flexible plot and difficulty set up that is unique not only to Final Fantasy but jrpgs in general. People hate it because...I don't know, because it stars girls or because it makes fun of the entire jrpg genre or something, or maybe because they like plot more than gameplay. I'm not really sure.

If I were to quickly sum up the reasons X-2 turns me off,
1. The story is one thing. If this had been its own game, maybe I could've better accepted its silliness for what it was. But as a followup to what was largely a journey of self-sacrifice for only a temporary saving of the world in X, it felt incongruous. I kinda felt about X-2 like the in-game characters felt about Zanarkand at the beginning; something old had become a goofy tourist attraction. The necessary introduction of a new world threat also retroactively decreases the finality of the world-saving done in the previous game.
2. The world. We already knew it from X, and everyplace was pretty immediately accessible, so the sense of discovery and newness was pretty much out the window. Where there WERE new areas were dungeons, but the main thing I remember from them are that poorly timed jumps meant extra walking meant extra random battles.
3. The return of the job system sounded nice... but I prefer how V and Tactics did it long ago, so I didn't feel it was worth replacing X's unique sphere grid for a third-rate version of an old idea.
4. The music. I liked Yuna's and Rikku's themes, but for the rest I'd pretty much listen to any other game in the series. It also increased disconnect from FFX when familiar areas no longer sounded familiar.
5. The new quick Active Time Battle was interesting, but I found myself asking "Why?" After a decade of ATB they'd just switched things up with X. Why return to the old ways so soon, and in a title that in every other way shook up the standard FF formula?
6. The whole "Mission" thing. It seemed goofy to essentially specify YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING NOW and HEY YOU FINISHED. Not such a natural progression of events like other games, but a collection of happenings that eventually become more related.

Part of it is really the expectations game. I enjoyed FFX and knew X-2's genesis was partially as a budget project, so I was largely expecting more of the same. However, there was a lot of change... but in almost every instance it was replacing things with other things of equal or lesser value, so a net loss.

 

[pancakesandsex]

Haha

you're cute

Love blooms on the battlefield of GAF.

 

[robor]

I'm on the verge of bailing out on this franchise, but we'll see what FFXIII has in store. Toshiro Tsuchida is the battle director and I find his system in X to be absolutely stunning (despite the rest of the game) so I have a lot of faith riding in his work on this next iteration. I just hope Motomu having full directorial control means that he can show us what he's all about and perhaps he has a fully fleshed out structure instead of being in the position to extend other previous installments with sub sequels (i.e. shallow experiences). This is his first original FF game that he has full control over, giving him a chance to exhibit his talent as a director.

 

[pancakesandsex]

We we weren't talking about killing off turn-based battles (something that I do want) but Jrpgs (something that I don't want). You should have read it in context.

Jesus 179.9... degree angles are less obtuse.

 

[minimumhippo]

I was losing interest in Final Fantasy as I was playing through XII, but then I stopped halfway through and completed FFX again... then X-2... then VII... After playing all of those games again, along with becoming addicted to Crisis Core, I would say my love for Final Fantasy is as strong as ever.

 

[biggkidd32]

Yes. I originally lost interest after FF8, which was one of my favs. I played FFX on a fluke--my brother gave me his copy and I played it out of curiosity-- and was hooked. Amazing game. But x-2 and xii really didn't interest me at all.

 

[p_xavier]

I was losing interest in Final Fantasy as I was playing through XII, but then I stopped halfway through and completed FFX again... then X-2... then VII... After playing all of those games again, along with becoming addicted to Crisis Core, I would say my love for Final Fantasy is as strong as ever.

Haha, I did the same order. I will never play FFXII again, I hated the gameplay. If I want to play a MMO, I will play one, but keep that out of Final Fantasy, I loathed FFXI too.

 

[charlequin]

Oh man. I guess it's time to rumble.

(p.s. I WILL END YOU)

1. The story is one thing. If this had been its own game, maybe I could've better accepted its silliness for what it was. But as a followup to what was largely a journey of self-sacrifice for only a temporary saving of the world in X, it felt incongruous.
I kinda felt about X-2 like the in-game characters felt about Zanarkand at the beginning; something old had become a goofy tourist attraction.

But that's the whole point. In reality, things don't just end once you reach the big climactic point; everything continues on. The actions of the heroes in FFX allow the whole world to relax in safety for the first time in their lives; that makes the world better in many ways (as people can spend their time enjoying themselves and working to improve things that won't just be torn down immediately by Sin) but it comes with its own problems -- people inherently have short memories and many of them make bad decisions or exploit things that should be sacred.

Everything that happens to Spira -- the factions popping up, the trivialization of what used to be a holy place in the name of commerce, the new wacky pastimes, the youth rebellion -- is all entirely believable. FFX-2 is the first game ever that actually looks at what happens after a big FF-style world-saving mission, which honestly makes the game revolutionary.

Spoiler

It also pokes fun at JRPG traditions by having you do things like hold a concert to save the world -- and by having the final boss fight be totally irrelevant to actually solving the problem, which instead is fixed by talking.

3. The return of the job system sounded nice... but I prefer how V and Tactics did it long ago, so I didn't feel it was worth replacing X's unique sphere grid for a third-rate version of an old idea.

X-2 does things differently, not worse. Instead of mixing and matching parts of jobs, you switch between them quickly. If you have a good garment grid setup, you can easily be rocking 4 jobs with each of your ladies and switching between them as needed during a fight.

5. The new quick Active Time Battle was interesting, but I found myself asking "Why?"

...because they wanted to develop the best battle system the series ever had? FFX-2 is hella fast while being strategic; the combo mechanic and spell cancelling reward planning, while the speed and smoothness make ATB feel more like a "real time" system than it ever has before. It really makes all the PS1 games which didn't evolve ATB at all embarrassing in comparison.

However, there was a lot of change... but in almost every instance it was replacing things with other things of equal or lesser value, so a net loss.

X-2 is a different game. It wasn't ever going to be "just more of FFX" because that goes against what the series stands for -- so instead they took the opportunity to try out a bunch of things they wouldn't have otherwise gotten to do in the mainline FF series (NG+, non-linearity, mission structure, revisiting old locations, etc.)

 

[Red Scarlet]

I don't believe you.

When I got both games, they were the only new game I got that year more or less. If you got that many new games a year, you'd probably try to get your money's worth out of what you happened to get too.

I haven't played either game since I did those videos for each.

 

[antiloop]

I just completed watching the Gametrailers Final Fantasy retrospective yesterday. Every FF fan should watch it. They did a good job.

I am getting all nostalgic just from hearing the music.


URL:
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/4831.html

 

[Yagharek]

I lost interest about the time of IX, so I can't really comment in too much depth or with too much knowledge of anything pre-7. What I will say is that I would play one again and to completion of they had a compelling story and characters that weren't so hard to like. Maybe something is lost in translation, but I rarely like FF characters with the exception of Cloud, Vivi and Auron.

 

[Sato Koiji]

No.

But to be honest FFXI was a mistake in the whole FF franchise IMO. It wasnt that popular outside japan and it wasnt really that good.

Originally they wanted 12 to be a MMO as well, but luckily they neglected that idea. Some signs of MMO can still be seen in 12 (fighting system, world).

13 will blast the universe.

 

[RpgN]

Haha

you're cute

*blush* You too...

Burli, what trap are you speaking of?

From all the FF talk, I felt like playing FFXII again. Still awesome for me I find it so cool to see Montblac there too (FFTA), makes me wonder if FFXII wouldn't have been better with a clan system like FFTA as a mini-game.

 

[Pharmacy]

also the lady luck job should make a return so i can do the move "congrats!!" over and over

man i wanna play ffx2 now

 

[robor]

13 will blast the universe.

I want to believe.

 

[charlequin]

But to be honest FFXI was a mistake in the whole FF franchise IMO.

FFXI was a "mistake" that kept Square-Enix alive during an extremely rough time and has probably made more profit than any other FF game ever. And I'm not sure it meaningfully hurt the brand in any way -- plenty of people played, and enjoyed, FFXI.

 

[Pureauthor]

FFX-2 sucked because it had girls as a main character and everyone knows girls have cooties.

 

[Error]

When I got both games, they were the only new game I got that year more or less. If you got that many new games a year, you'd probably try to get your money's worth out of what you happened to get too.

I haven't played either game since I did those videos for each.

Sorry Scarlet, but playing a game 10 times and then say you didn't like it... Is just weird to me.

 

[Red Scarlet]

I said I didn't like it during the first play onward. I just put up with it in replays after the 2nd full time through (marathon), which happened to be when I borrowed the US version and decided to see how fast I could get through normal-style after that.

I played through FF8 and 1/3 of FF7 over school since someone never played those before. Also played FF10 twice through in a row due to the other person being slow in that and I didn't want to fight around. I am weird to a lot of people.

 

[Spectral]

I see it like this. Whenever Square decides to try something new with the series(XII), you all bitch about how different and odd it is. But when it comes to remakes and rehashes, you all praise them for sticking to a formula that has been done for years and years, yet you yearn for something different, and when it happens, you fail to accept it, because it's not your traditional rpg.

 

[HK-47]

Fans of FFX

I <3 you

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Fans of FFX

I <3 you

I embrace your love.

 

[Surreal]

The second some more FFXIII/FFvs media is released, my interest in Final Fantasy will be reignited with a burning passion. It looks awesome so far, I can't imagine what they have in store.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I see it like this. Whenever Square decides to try something new with the series(XII), you all bitch about how different and odd it is. But when it comes to remakes and rehashes, you all praise them for sticking to a formula that has been done for years and years, yet you yearn for something different, and when it happens, you fail to accept it, because it's not your traditional rpg.

Ehh. Desire for something new doesn't mean you should like something just because it's new. If someone were to glue Final Fantasy XIV on the cover of Gears of War, that'd be new for the series.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Love blooms on the battlefield of GAF.

Can... love bloom on the battlefield?

 

[radios shipping overview]

Losing? Lost.

p.s. X-2 rocked, bitches

 

[KTallguy]

X-2 had awesome gameplay but the story and characters were fucking boring. I don't play Final Fantasy games for teeny-bopper charlie's angels BS. I slogged through it because I thought the battles were awesome though. I wish they had called it FF Gaiden or some bullshit and included some characters from older FF games (like a universes collide thing), and slapped on a more interesting story.

FFX-2 was just annoying because it was so good, yet so bad at the same time.

 

[karasu]

I've only played three Final Fantasy games, so I'm not burned out. I skipped part XII altogether, so I haven't played a Final Fantasy since 2001. XIII can't come soon enough.

 

[KTallguy]

It's more like I didn't really enjoy the particular brand of humor they offered. I'm not so into that super anime-esque slapstick that was in the game. In some cases it can be really funny, but I guess the game rubbed me the wrong way... or something.

But hell, it's been 3+ years since I've played it so I'm not sure

Oh and yes I want FFXIII really badly.

 

[KTallguy]

I guess I liked X-2 so much because I identify with anime slapstick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgSvUZT5niw

The whole shumai being stuck to the lid is a pretty old story in Japan. The rest of it was funny though :lol

 

[pancakesandsex]

Love can bloom in Himu's heart. Always.

 

[karasu]

Oh wow. :lol

 

[Nif]

I see it like this. Whenever Square decides to try something new with the series(XII), you all bitch about how different and odd it is. But when it comes to remakes and rehashes, you all praise them for sticking to a formula that has been done for years and years, yet you yearn for something different, and when it happens, you fail to accept it, because it's not your traditional rpg.

It's different people wanting different things, mostly. Personally, I like turn based battle systems, I just wish they'd evolve to have different kinds of strategy. I don't mean ring systems or being able to move around. In just about every FF, it tends to boil down to having a few spells or attacks completely broken and overused. I can't think of a single FF besides XI where the status effects made much of a difference in a boss fight, unless it was some kind of gimmick. Spells like Demi and its type barely work in random battles, let alone boss battles. Then you have summons or avatars that typically only do area damage of a certain element, but why use them if you have a black mage that can usually cast area elemental magic? In Final Fantasy VI through X, at least, the best strategy to use in almost every non gimmick fight is "Do as much damage as possible and cure or raise yourself as needed."

Final Fantasy XII came closest to what I'm talking about, but it's not turn based, and a lot of status effects and summons are still useless. At least I was able to have a character tank effectively, and use enhancing spells on my party when I wasn't fighting.

What they should do is bring back turn-based battles, balance spells by giving them fair cast-time (strong spells take longer to cast), make a defensive character or job class that can take most or all of the damage for their party as well as counter, make offensive characters have much lower hp and defense, and make useful status spells that bosses are susceptible to (doesn't have to last all too long).

 

[duckroll]

I'm losing interest in Final Fantasy threads! And to confirm once more, FFX-2 rocks!

 

[Christopher]

Why couldn't they just have FFX-2 play like FFX

I rather like set up to the story though! Right before they get in Rikku's ship then blah it totally lost my interst.

Final Fantasy X is really amazing guys - I still don't undertstand the hate.

The first FF game I got was XII, but ugh I couldn't even stand to play it...Final Fantasy X was just so perfect, the settings, story, characters...amazing stuff guys. Hopefullly they bring back that type of battle system too - the real time one suckkkkkks

 

[Christopher]

Hahaha

how far in FFX are you?

Believe it or not I actually beat it - it took me about 4 1/2 weeks, but I sat my ass down when I had free time and just went for it...great game. I borrowed FFX-2 from my friends and was disgusted - I might just look at the story scenes online, but the gameplay blahhh

 

[Agyar]

I lost interest in Final Fantasy when I bought FFX for PS2 and hadn't done anything other than watch cutscenes and walk between cutscenes 20 minutes in.

 

[RpgN]

Why couldn't they just have FFX-2 play like FFX

I rather like set up to the story though! Right before they get in Rikku's ship then blah it totally lost my interst.

Final Fantasy X is really amazing guys - I still don't undertstand the hate.

The first FF game I got was XII, but ugh I couldn't even stand to play it...Final Fantasy X was just so perfect, the settings, story, characters...amazing stuff guys. Hopefullly they bring back that type of battle system too - the real time one suckkkkkks

But that what makes FFX-2 so special. I think I would be less excited if it were too similar to FFX. FFX-2 is an amazing game one of its kind. Now I'm going to say something that might make me the most hated person in GAF: I wouldn't mind another FF similar to FFX-2

And yes, FFX is close to perfection. It is the most close one to ps1 FF games, but still a next-gen game at its time.

FFXII's gameplay was weird for me at the beginning as well, however you will love it if you stick with it. It's just something new and people need to be open for it. I'm surprised nobody mentioned how detailed this game is. With that I mean how the towns and dialouge are presented. But dang, the game is hard. I played a few elite marks and just couldn't defeat these monsters Need to level up!

 

[xs_mini_neo]

Bigger issues like murder and self indentity are irrelevent because the story still has to be told well. You speak of themes, and yet those things still have to be metastasized into a story that explores her inner conflict. It is not simply enough that she contemplates her past horrors. That alone does not make a story. After all, I can point you to a thousand stories that try to explore similar themes, so that in itself is nothing special.

Characters typically reveal the most about themselves when their ideals are tested. Just like how the main character in "Crime and Punishment" is convinced that he can commit a crime coldly and yet succumbs to delirium and regret. Sure the book deals with crime and politics, but that's not what makes it. What makes the book is how he deals with his crime as event after event are put in his way. Constant threat of uncovering his secret drives his paranoia and fear until he nearly turns himself in, or at least do things that drive suspicious, some of which is rationalized by his friends. The key here is that there is something that sparks things within him. The exploration of a character in a story isn't about the end (since the idea is usually simple philosophy). It's about how we get there, the means, how the story plays that out.

There is really no storytelling with Terra. She remains predictably regrettable at what she had done, not even sure of what kind of person she is, and her friends take the usual "You can overcome this!" clause. There is no actual exploration of those ideas through actions and interactions because they never go beyond the surface. Nothing really happens to her. She reacts to her past, and her past fuels her feelings, but it isn't enough. Her past is only a start. Conflict needs to arise that tests those negative feelings within her. And FF6's idea of doing that is uncovering more of her past, which is self defeating.

Taking a deprecating stance on what is considered an American classic because the themes just aren't serious enough for you is counter to what storytelling is about in the first place. Anybody can write about grave themes. Not everybody can write a good story. "The Glass Menagerie" does a story in ways no videogame can even dream of. The creativity it uses to explore its characters is exemplary (it even won some prestigious critical awards). Dragging it down is pointless. Doing a critical analysis of both stories side by side would end this debate, though I earnestly hope it doesn't come down to that.

The issue of multiple characters is also irrelevant. I can point out all sorts of characters who are built without reproach in twenty or thirty minutes ("Crime and Punishment" has one character in chapter two who only comes back later to die with barely a word). In fact, any skilled storyteller can do something with just one scene. FF6 has all that time with Terra and doesn't do much of anything. The issue of the word "emo" isn't my argument, as someone else brought that term into the argument. However, the idea behind it, or at least my interpretation of it, still holds. It is a disservice to a story to have so much shallow conversation in place of actual storytelling. It does come across like the writer is trying to touch on horror and agony and suffering but has no idea how to do it. This is a potential issue with any story that has been around as long as storytelling has existed.

FFVI isn't a novel, so you're being a little unfair with comparing a medium which is all about the story with one that is all about story AND gameplay. Again, the bad translation didn't help the story during its best moments, so I know it isn't perfect. But after reading a better translation last year, I saw how much better the story actually was all this time.

 

[Mgoblue201]

I am simply telling you how a good story is done. If FF6 doesn't want to abide by certain rules of the road, then it shouldn't waste its time. In contrast, there are games with simple conflicts and a fraction of the narrative, yet explore them reasonably well. Kefka poisoning a kingdom was a bright spot in the story, as were other moments, so there is no excuse not to hold the molecular structure of the Terra thing up to a similar standard. If they wanted to attempt to tell a story on that front, then there is a certain way of doing it, and it requires anything but a novel to make it reality.

And dialog, even if it does breach a layer where one could say it is really good (which I doubt), is hardly a panacea that will mend the comparative ills of a story. Though there are some individuals who can weave a kind of narrative with it, dialog is still a compliment to story. Not every story has good dialog (some writers even mean to include less of it). But all stories have to abide by some basic tenets.