Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 8: Put mii in, coach

Neo Child said:
or he could burn in the pits of hell

either or
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Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he's not deserving of being a playable character in Smash Bros. ;)

Really, though, I find it extremely odd that so many people detest Tingle being playable in Smash Bros., when really he's the most appropriate Zelda newcomer there is. And I'll never understand why so many people dislike him to begin with, either. Why do so many people hate Tingle for being an annoying, ugly, creepy character when Wario's pretty much the same thing and people love Wario? I think people just hate Tingle because it's cool to hate Tingle, and that's sad.
 
The Great Gonzales said:
All good ideas, but except for the words "upon defeat," everything you're saying sounds like the description of a stage hazard (and, again, I think those are all great ideas for stage hazards.) That's the problem with bosses, though: I don't see how to make them unobtrusive without reducing them to mere stage hazards. At this point, I'm simply hoping that you'll be able to turn stage bosses off or on like you can with items.



If you want a sorcerer from Zelda, I think Vaati is a better choice than Toon Zelda. I'd rather have a totally different character than a different version of an existing character - it's more interesting that way. Really, though, as others have said, an FE character should fill that role. Preferably Robin, though I wouldn't mind seeing Soren.
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I think it would be pretty hard to argue that Vaati is a better representative of the Zelda series than Toon Zelda. My Character is arguable, but then you'd have a lot of sword stuff in there too, so its not really the same thing. Soren would be a pretty bad pick.

Toon Zelda is a major character in the Zelda series that fits the mage set perfectly. There's not really a good reason to pick another character over her. I understand what you're saying, but TP Zelda and Toon Zelda aren't really the same character at all, so that argument even kinda falls flat.
 
Tyeforce said:
Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he's not deserving of being a playable character in Smash Bros. ;)

Really, though, I find it extremely odd that so many people detest Tingle being playable in Smash Bros., when really he's the most appropriate Zelda newcomer there is. And I'll never understand why so many people dislike him to begin with, either. Why do so many people hate Tingle for being an annoying, ugly, creepy character when Wario's pretty much the same thing and people love Wario? I think people just hate Tingle because it's cool to hate Tingle, and that's sad.
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I don't think he is the most appropriate newcomer. He's a quirky side-character who pops up from time to time in the games and is of no real consequence to the story He's a perfect character for an AT, not for a spot on the roster. He's kind of like Johnny in Metal Gear - a recurring comic relief character.

Beelzebufo said:
I think it would be pretty hard to argue that Vaati is a better representative of the Zelda series than Toon Zelda. My Character is arguable, but then you'd have a lot of sword stuff in there too, so its not really the same thing. Soren would be a pretty bad pick.

Toon Zelda is a major character in the Zelda series that fits the mage set perfectly. There's not really a good reason to pick another character over her. I understand what you're saying, but TP Zelda and Toon Zelda aren't really the same character at all, so that argument even kinda falls flat.
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TP Zelda and Toon Zelda are as much "the same" as Link and Toon Link: they're not exactly the same character, but they're very similar - same name, same basic look. And, since Zelda already has a number of magic moves (e.g., Din's Fire, Nayru's Love,) I would worry about Toon Zelda being a little redundant. Vaati, though hardly the most important character in the Zelda series, is at least a completely different character with enough source material to create an original moveset.

As for Robin, he could use the sword for his A attacks, but there's enough material in FE that his specials could be purely magic. And I don't see why Soren would be a bad choice: he was an important character in two games, which is more than can be said for a number of people on the Smash roster.
 
zroid said:
If Zelda got a clone in Toon Zelda then I'd be salty if Sheik didn't get a clone in Impa

very salty
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The problem with Impa is that she's relatively the same size/build as Sheik, and she would probably have similar attributes (light and fast). That kind of clone, like Dr. Mario, generally bores me. While Zelda is tall, "realistic," and slow, Toon Zelda would be short, "cartoony," and fast. There's a bigger immediate contrast between the two.
 
The Great Gonzales said:
I don't think he is the most appropriate newcomer. He's a quirky side-character who pops up from time to time in the games and is of no real consequence to the story He's a perfect character for an AT, not for a spot on the roster. He's kind of like Johnny in Metal Gear - a recurring comic relief character.
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He's appeared in more games than most other Zelda characters, and he stars in his own series of games, too. That pretty much put hims above any other Zelda character. How is that not deserving? What other Zelda characters are more deserving than him, and what makes them more deserving?
 
Tyeforce said:
He's appeared in more games than most other Zelda characters, and he stars in his own series of games, too. That pretty much put hims above any other Zelda character. How is that not deserving? What other Zelda characters are more deserving than him, and what makes them more deserving?
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I feel like you're arguing toward a personal point when you talk about who is deserving and who isn't. I doubt that's ever really been the logic for including characters and it's definitely going to vary from person to person.
 
The Great Gonzales said:
I don't think he is the most appropriate newcomer. He's a quirky side-character who pops up from time to time in the games and is of no real consequence to the story He's a perfect character for an AT, not for a spot on the roster. He's kind of like Johnny in Metal Gear - a recurring comic relief character.



TP Zelda and Toon Zelda are as much "the same" as Link and Toon Link: they're not exactly the same character, but they're very similar - same name, same basic look. And, since Zelda already has a number of magic moves (e.g., Din's Fire, Nayru's Love,) I would worry about Toon Zelda being a little redundant. Vaati, though hardly the most important character in the Zelda series, is at least a completely different character with enough source material to create an original moveset.

As for Robin, he could use the sword for his A attacks, but there's enough material in FE that his specials could be purely magic. And I don't see why Soren would be a bad choice: he was an important character in two games, which is more than can be said for a number of people on the Smash roster.
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Soren is a bad choice because he's a relatively minor character that's only in two Fire Emblem games that already have a playable character (Ike).

Vaati isn't as good of a choice as Toon Zelda because of his relative unimportance. A lot of people think Toon Zelda when they hear "Zelda", not boring TP Zelda. You said it yourself, Zelda and Toon Zelda would be like having Link and Toon Link, which we have. Toon Link's still in the game because he still manages to add a lot to the roster, just like Toon Zelda would.
 
Tyeforce said:
Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he's not deserving of being a playable character in Smash Bros. ;)

Really, though, I find it extremely odd that so many people detest Tingle being playable in Smash Bros., when really he's the most appropriate Zelda newcomer there is. And I'll never understand why so many people dislike him to begin with, either. Why do so many people hate Tingle for being an annoying, ugly, creepy character when Wario's pretty much the same thing and people love Wario? I think people just hate Tingle because it's cool to hate Tingle, and that's sad.
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Wario is not annoying. Wario is hilarious.
 
Tyeforce said:
He's appeared in more games than most other Zelda characters, and he stars in his own series of games, too. That pretty much put hims above any other Zelda character. How is that not deserving? What other Zelda characters are more deserving than him, and what makes them more deserving?
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Sheer number of appearances isn't what's most important for determining series relevance/importance though. IIRC, the only time Tingle was every important to the arc of a game was Wind Waker, and even there he only fulfilled a generic support role. I'd argue that Sheik played a more important role in one appearance than Tingle ever has, as her character was intimately connected to the events of the game. Tingle was just a guy who could read maps.

As for who is more deserving of a spot, I'd say Vaati, Ghirahim, and Demise are all ahead of Tingle. Hell, even Zant is more important in the Zelda universe than Tingle.

Beelzebufo said:
Soren is a bad choice because he's a relatively minor character that's only in two Fire Emblem games that already have a playable character (Ike).
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That's fair. Like I said, I'd prefer Robin to Soren, as he's a more important character in a game that doesn't already have a rep. But I'd prefer Soren to Chrom, just for variety's sake.

Beelzebufo said:
Vaati isn't as good of a choice as Toon Zelda because of his relative unimportance. A lot of people think Toon Zelda when they hear "Zelda", not boring TP Zelda. You said it yourself, Zelda and Toon Zelda would be like having Link and Toon Link, which we have. Toon Link's still in the game because he still manages to add a lot to the roster, just like Toon Zelda would.
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I don't think Toon Link is a very interesting choice, either, and I wish they'd done more to distinguish him from Link. Though he handles differently, his moves are basically the same, especially his specials. If they changed his moveset a little, he would add a lot more (variety) to the roster. To be sure, Vaati is less important than Toon Zelda, but I think he'd be a more interesting choice, insofar as he would add variety. Now, I don't want variety merely for the sake of variety - relevance is important too (hence my rejection of Tingle) - but Vaati, being a major player in three games, isn't totally irrelevant, and he would add more variety than Toon Zelda would.
 
Tyeforce said:
He's appeared in more games than most other Zelda characters, and he stars in his own series of games, too. That pretty much put hims above any other Zelda character. How is that not deserving? What other Zelda characters are more deserving than him, and what makes them more deserving?
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People liking them.

I mean waluigi has been in a lot of games too.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
I feel like you're arguing toward a personal point when you talk about who is deserving and who isn't. I doubt that's ever really been the logic for including characters and it's definitely going to vary from person to person.
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While it's true that there is no way to determine exactly what makes a character deserving to be playable in Smash Bros., I think having a starring role or at least significant playable appearance in a franchise is certainly means something.

It's hard to compare Tingle to other Smash Bros. characters because the Zelda series is different than most other franchises represented by multiple characters in Smash Bros. In the Zelda games, Link is typically the only playable character, so aside from Link(s), you see non-playable characters like Zelda and Ganondorf as additional Zelda series characters in Smash Bros. But now Tingle's had multiple starring roles in his own games, so I think that definitely changes things.

I'd say that Tingle is in a similar situation as Yoshi and Wario, but, yeah, there's no real precedent because you can't exactly compare different characters from different franchises like that, so I suppose it is pointless to argue over what makes a character like Tingle more deserving. But I strongly believe that his is deserving, and I can't imagine another Zelda character getting in over him now.
 
The majority don't want to play as Tingle. Wii Fit Trainer, fine. Villager, fine. But only the ironists and outliers will want to wreck shit with Tingle (unless he's OP)

Watch Sakurai confirm Tingle
 
Zelda had 4 reps in melee and 4 in brawl, all almost the same (just changed young link to toon link, but they play the same)

Zelda needs a new rep, and tingle fits perfectly
 
Tyeforce said:
Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he's not deserving of being a playable character in Smash Bros. ;)

Really, though, I find it extremely odd that so many people detest Tingle being playable in Smash Bros., when really he's the most appropriate Zelda newcomer there is. And I'll never understand why so many people dislike him to begin with, either. Why do so many people hate Tingle for being an annoying, ugly, creepy character when Wario's pretty much the same thing and people love Wario? I think people just hate Tingle because it's cool to hate Tingle, and that's sad.
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I mean, Wario doesn't basically enslave people, right? And you never had to shell out basically all your money to finish Mario Sunshine because Wario charged you to finish the game. I like Tingle, but its not hard to see why people don't like him.
 
Tyeforce said:
But I strongly believe that his is deserving, and I can't imagine another Zelda character getting in over him now.
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After getting a redesign just to appear in Hyrule Warriors, I'd pull for Impa.

Tingle's basically an Assist Trophy in the games too-- Tingle's not even at Linebeck-status in terms of importance to story.
 
It would be hilarious to wreck shit with Tingle.

But I do think Villager's balloons are kind of a soft deconfirm. Tingle had a Balloon Fighter game himself so he would've definitely had that.
 
Tyeforce said:
While it's true that there is no way to determine exactly what makes a character deserving to be playable in Smash Bros., I think having a starring role or at least significant playable appearance in a franchise is certainly means something.

It's hard to compare Tingle to other Smash Bros. characters because the Zelda series is different than most other franchises represented by multiple characters in Smash Bros. In the Zelda games, Link is typically the only playable character, so aside from Link(s), you see non-playable characters like Zelda and Ganondorf as additional Zelda series characters in Smash Bros. But now Tingle's had multiple starring roles in his own games, so I think that definitely changes things.

I'd say that Tingle is in a similar situation as Yoshi and Wario, but, yeah, there's no real precedent because you can't exactly compare different characters from different franchises like that, so I suppose it is pointless to argue over what makes a character like Tingle more deserving. But I strongly believe that his is deserving, and I can't imagine another Zelda character getting in over him now.
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I would imagine the bigger problem is that Tingle is a Koji Kondo-joke they tried to spin-off to his own game series and they failed miserably and they haven't done anything with him again. What was his last Zelda game appearance, Purlo kind of looking like him for a second as a silhouette in Twilight Princess? Looking it up on a wiki, he was a doll in Skyward Sword, a poster in Phantom Hourglass, and a small statue in Spirit Tracks.

To compare this to Wario or Yoshi doesn't do much for him, anyway. Yoshi and Wario continue to get games and are pretty popular within the Mario spin-offs. People would raise hell if Wario or Yoshi were not in Mario Kart 8. I don't see that same level of fervor if Tingle isn't in Hyrule Warriors.
 
daripad said:
Zelda had 4 reps in melee and 4 in brawl, all almost the same (just changed young link to toon link, but they play the same)

Zelda needs a new rep, and tingle fits perfectly
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Zelda's had 5 reps in both games

ShockingAlberto said:
I would imagine the bigger problem is that Tingle is a Koji Kondo-joke they tried to spin-off to his own game series and they failed miserably and they haven't done anything with him again. What was his last Zelda game appearance, Purlo kind of looking like him for a second as a silhouette in Twilight Princess? Looking it up on a wiki, he was a doll in Skyward Sword, a poster in Phantom Hourglass, and a small statue in Spirit Tracks.

To compare this to Wario or Yoshi doesn't do much for him, anyway. Yoshi and Wario continue to get games and are pretty popular within the Mario spin-offs. People would raise hell if Wario or Yoshi were not in Mario Kart 8. I don't see that same level of fervor if Tingle isn't in Hyrule Warriors.
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people would raise hell if Tingle was in Hyrule Warriors, if anything
 
IntelliHeath said:
I'm sorry that I'm going to do something to you!

if0GHHmShpeZr.gif
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Aw man, memories of seeing that for the first time when I was finishing up High School and following intently when the Dojo opened. 8 years later (wow) and I'm still antsy and eager over a Smash release
 
The Great Gonzales said:
Sheer number of appearances isn't what's most important for determining series relevance/importance though. IIRC, the only time Tingle was every important to the arc of a game was Wind Waker, and even there he only fulfilled a generic support role. I'd argue that Sheik played a more important role in one appearance than Tingle ever has, as her character was intimately connected to the events of the game. Tingle was just a guy who could read maps.

As for who is more deserving of a spot, I'd say Vaati, Ghirahim, and Demise are all ahead of Tingle. Hell, even Zant is more important in the Zelda universe than Tingle.
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Tingle was certainly important to his own games, you know, the ones in which he was the main character. =P

If we're excluding spin-off series, then Yoshi may as well just be Mario's Epona, and Wario would be that irrelevant couple-times-off villain from some old Mario games.

Regarding Vaati, Ghirahim, and Demise, why would one-off (three-times-off in Vaati's case, but still) villains like that trump Tingle when it comes to being deserving of playable status in Smash Bros.? Especially when we already have a Zelda villain in Smash Bros. Yes, they may be more important to their respective games than Tingle...but they also don't have their own spin-off games in which they're the main, playable character, either.

But whatever. We'll just have to see who Sakurai chooses. Assuming we even get another Zelda newcomer, that is.
 
Not said:
The majority don't want to play as Tingle. Wii Fit Trainer, fine. Villager, fine. But only the ironists and outliers will want to wreck shit with Tingle (unless he's OP)

Watch Sakurai confirm Tingle
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I thought Tingle was sort of a fan-favorite in Japan. At any rate, the hatred for him isn't nearly as prominent there.
 
It's not like he's super popular in Japan, either. At the height of the DS's popularity, Freshly-Picked Rupee Land sold 200k LTD, which isn't particularly great.
 
Tyeforce said:
Tingle was certainly important to his own games, you know, the ones in which he was the main character. =P

If we're excluding spin-off series, then Yoshi may as well just be Mario's Epona, and Wario would be that irrelevant couple-times-off villain from some old Mario games.

Regarding Vaati, Ghirahim, and Demise, why would one-off (three-times-off in Vaati's case, but still) villains like that trump Tingle when it comes to being deserving of playable status in Smash Bros.? Especially when we already have a Zelda villain in Smash Bros. Yes, they may be more important to their respective games than Tingle...but they also don't have their own spin-off games in which they're the main, playable character, either.
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But Tingle's games were themselves pretty irrelevant. Wario and Yoshi have long-running series which have been reasonably popular and constant representation in Mario spinoff games. Tingle has none of that. Given the overall unimportance of Tingle's games, I'd still say Vaati, etc. are more important to Zelda.

Tyeforce said:
But whatever. We'll just have to see who Sakurai chooses. Assuming we even get another Zelda newcomer, that is.
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At the end of the day, this is the most important part. Myself, I doubt we'll get another Zelda rep at all, and Tingle will remain an AT.
 
So what if the reason we still haven't seen a (new) DK or Kirby stage is because they have bosses on them? Any ideas on a DK or Kirby boss? Maybe K. Rool? But I don't think he's big enough to make a compelling boss. Kirby could easily have Whispy Woods. The only reason I think this might be the case is because Sakurai has shown a lot of restraint in revealing bosses, he's even teased some of them.
 
powerdrain said:
Aw man, memories of seeing that for the first time when I was finishing up High School and following intently when the Dojo opened. 8 years later (wow) and I'm still antsy and eager over a Smash release
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I remember being antsy and eager as all hell... for Melee's release. That was 13 years ago. Feels like it was yesterday. :/

I guess it's one of those things I'll always be excited about? On the other hand, I thought that of Final Fantasy and look how that went.
 
Beelzebufo said:
So what if the reason we still haven't seen a (new) DK or Kirby stage is because they have bosses on them? Any ideas on a DK or Kirby boss? Maybe K. Rool? But I don't think he's big enough to make a compelling boss. Kirby could easily have Whispy Woods. The only reason I think this might be the case is because Sakurai has shown a lot of restraint in revealing bosses, he's even teased some of them.
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so you're saying we could get Ridley and King K. Rool deconfirmed at the same time
 
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