sixteen-bit
Member
Mike looks so cute here
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Fighting Games Weekly | June 2-8 | The Final Kountdown
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Karsticles
Member
I feel like this happens a lot in Street Fighter. Marvel has some weird hitboxes, but you rarely see something happen like a foot that goes through a body without hitting it.
That's because Marvel has the opposite problem. Stuff that looks like it shouldn't be hitting hits anyway. To say that the hit boxes in that game are generous would be putting it nicely.
Also that same logic is what got the C.Viper cr.MK buffed. Viper players didn't like that the foot whiffed even though it looked like it was hitting.
Also that same logic is what got the C.Viper cr.MK buffed. Viper players didn't like that the foot whiffed even though it looked like it was hitting.
Karsticles
Member
Side from Vergil, Hulk, and Nova's H buttons, I find them to be pretty reasonable. /shrug
irfaanator
Banned
footdive?
Jumping forward HP?
Karsticles
Member
Doesn't actually have a huge hitbox. The image everyone posts around with the huge red circle is a fake IIRC. It's just a unique kind of move that people make dumb decisions around.
The cross-up on it is pretty weird, but that is a Marvel problem in general. Haggar's Violent Axe never looks like it should cross under, but it does, even though he's thoroughly to the left of you. -_-
Yep. And c.HP.
I have some bad habits from Makoto kicking in from time to time, and that jumping forward HP made me go "heh?" sooo many times. The hitbox on it is really weird. BUT it's really good at catching people when jumping backwards.
It isn't though? The hitbox really does take up 2/3rds of his body. It's no wonder people get so easily bopped by that thing.
The cross up on Foot Dive is dumb. It basically punishes people for rushing down Doom.
"Oh you approached Doom through one of the few ways you can attack? Now you have to make a guess on whether the super fast Foot Dive will cross up or not."
He gets so many cheap wins with that move because of the cross up. People even use that as an incoming mix up because it's a 50/50. It being safe, leads into a ground bounce and a full combo is the complete package that makes it super derp.
When you have people like CJShowstopper griming out wins with that move you know something is wrong. Not every character can zone out Doom which means they HAVE to deal with that Foot Dive even if they are super smart like Justin Wong. And yes Justin Wong does get hit by cross up Foot Dive. The only reason why people come back so often with Doom is because of the Foot Dive... not because they get hit by it but they end up giving Doom too much respect which allows him to walk over you. This is why Doom's only real bad match ups are characters who can zone him and thus not deal with that ridiculous Foot Dive.
"Oh you approached Doom through one of the few ways you can attack? Now you have to make a guess on whether the super fast Foot Dive will cross up or not."
He gets so many cheap wins with that move because of the cross up. People even use that as an incoming mix up because it's a 50/50. It being safe, leads into a ground bounce and a full combo is the complete package that makes it super derp.
When you have people like CJShowstopper griming out wins with that move you know something is wrong. Not every character can zone out Doom which means they HAVE to deal with that Foot Dive even if they are super smart like Justin Wong. And yes Justin Wong does get hit by cross up Foot Dive. The only reason why people come back so often with Doom is because of the Foot Dive... not because they get hit by it but they end up giving Doom too much respect which allows him to walk over you. This is why Doom's only real bad match ups are characters who can zone him and thus not deal with that ridiculous Foot Dive.
sixteen-bit
Member
do they have an audio rss feed yet?The Fray is back!
Darry H, Combofiend, Mike "Mike Rossington" Ross and Arturo "AAAaaaa" "Nycfurby" "Sabin" Sanchez will be there.
Tonight 8pm PST on twitch.tv/iplaywinner
No magus yet
commanderpepper
Member
I always try never to be below Doom. The area below Doom is a death sentence.
I think the worst hit boxes in Marvel 3 are:
*90% of Zero moves. Many hit behind him.
*90% of Vergil moves. Many hit behind him. Helm Breaker has a similar property to Foot Dive where it crosses you up but Vergil is still in front of you. Rapid Slash is also pretty absurd.
*Morrigan's Shell Kick. That is a move that should not cross up and it does. I know we had this big debate over how much it actually crosses up and I realized now that I should've stuck to my guns... there have been too many matches where ChrisG edged out a win because he got Shell Kick to cross up. I should make a compilation video at this point.
*Magneto's j.H. Another move that has no business crossing up and it does. Already is such a godlike normal, the combination of high mobility and high hit stun on the move makes this move absurd as a cross up.
*Foot Dive. Enough said.
*Nova's j.H. It already does too much.
*Viper's EX Seismo. Will be dumb now and forever and ever.
There are probably a lot more than this of course but these make me face palm hard every time I see them. Justin Wong lost to a crossed up cr.M of Zero at EVO...
This is why Doom camping in the corner and air dashing up after SJ into Photon Shot is also super derp against certain characters.
*90% of Zero moves. Many hit behind him.
*90% of Vergil moves. Many hit behind him. Helm Breaker has a similar property to Foot Dive where it crosses you up but Vergil is still in front of you. Rapid Slash is also pretty absurd.
*Morrigan's Shell Kick. That is a move that should not cross up and it does. I know we had this big debate over how much it actually crosses up and I realized now that I should've stuck to my guns... there have been too many matches where ChrisG edged out a win because he got Shell Kick to cross up. I should make a compilation video at this point.
*Magneto's j.H. Another move that has no business crossing up and it does. Already is such a godlike normal, the combination of high mobility and high hit stun on the move makes this move absurd as a cross up.
*Foot Dive. Enough said.
*Nova's j.H. It already does too much.
*Viper's EX Seismo. Will be dumb now and forever and ever.
There are probably a lot more than this of course but these make me face palm hard every time I see them. Justin Wong lost to a crossed up cr.M of Zero at EVO...
Many characters can't actually approach Doom without being directly below him. What is Iron Fist going to do against Doom... super jump above him and then try to mount an offense from there?
This is why Doom camping in the corner and air dashing up after SJ into Photon Shot is also super derp against certain characters.
Something I've noticed recently is that there are a lot more Japanese players streaming online SF4 play than in the US. There are even low-level players streaming despite getting very few, if any, viewers. Are capture cards easier to get there? Is it because of their internet infrastructure? There are a lot less viewers per stream than in the US though unless you're Topanga or Uryo or something lol.
SolarPowered
Member
Everyone is beneath Doom.
Karsticles
Member
It's not about how much of his body it takes up. It's about the hitbox vs. hurtbox vs. graphical representation. It's fine in that regards.
Iron Fist should have Vajra assist. He needs it as much as Wesker does these days.
There are some dumb hitboxes in Marvel, but most of them are in line with their graphics.
A lot of the cross up issues aren't about hitboxes, but how the game calculates hurtbox comparisons. It's an engine change that needs to happen, not something that should be addressed with individual characters.
Also, Shell Kick is 100% fine.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Aren't hitboxes in Capcom games historically stupid and arbitrary?
sixteen-bit
Member
#Not3rdstrike
Fixed that for you
Nope, it'd be hard to remove anyways and isn't as huge a deal as people think.
The power of no entry fee.
Will the event be live streamed online? That's what I want to know.
DryEyeRelief
Member
should be on sabin's channel. www.twitch.tv/nycfurby
i remember because he mentioned it after winning yesterday.
Full list of all pre-regs for all Spring Fighter games along with pool assignments:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...iTqLZBe6Da1Xuu0fRsbTzVCTMwY/edit#gid=41943289
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...iTqLZBe6Da1Xuu0fRsbTzVCTMwY/edit#gid=41943289
Thanks.
irfaanator
Banned
you mean b/select-linking?
How is this fine?
There is no reason why Footdive's hitbox should start off like this.
This week's Xanadu had an impressive showing by Azen (Marth, Falcon) in Melee and Sethlon (Roy) in Project M. Each won their respective tournament in winner's side grand finals.
Zeros j.H and J. d.H are 100% fine too.
Chun Li's hit boxes are all the way behind her. And yet she's STILL a non-playable character.
Mike looks so cute here
Kbrad looks like he's letting out a huge wet one.
That's shopped. This is the actual hitbox. It only reaches up to his pelvis, more or less.How is this fine?
There is no reason why Footdive's hitbox should start off like this.
Sometimes it feels like his head has a hitbox, though. The game's hurtboxes are as bizarre as the hitboxes.
The E. Ryu health buff made absolutely no sense. I don't really have an issue with the Oni nerf given his damage output capacity.
Coffeeling
Member
I'm disappointed at the lack of Galactus tech.
UMvC3 ver. 2014
I'm disappointed at the lack of Galactus tech.
Karsticles
Member
I already said that image is photoshopped.How is this fine?
There is no reason why Footdive's hitbox should start off like this.
Frantic posted the real hitbox, and I think it's pretty reasonable.
I have no problem with those.
Vajra doesn't beat Doom when Iron Fist is the one using it. He can easily punish it mid air with j.M which IF can't do shit about, FChamp does it all the time. Vajra can't be doing all the work either. Vajra is not the miracle answer to all flight based characters especially not in this match up.
At least Wesker has gun shot against Doom so he can match his zoning and force him to get in. Not anywhere near the same as what IF has to deal with.
I guess if you think Pizza Cutter is fine then Shell Kick is also "fine". I disagree with both being "fine" but whatever not the place to get into a length discussion over it.
Karsticles
Member
Woah.
First of all, you don't call Vajra at just any time. You call it when Doom is raining Photon Shots down at you. Also, no one ever talks about it, but Iron Fist's fire pillar hyper does huge damage and comes out in 8+1 frames. Putting a character with an install hyper behind Iron Fist is a great way to give him more of a threat vs. Doom.
Wesker's gunshot can't do crap against Doom. Doom should never be in a position to get hit by it.
Pizza Cutter has a huge hitbox, but a lot of moves do. I think the problem is primarily about Zero's pressure and 1-hit kills, not his hitboxes.
Use bar (which IF can't build without touching the opponent) to counter a strategy that the other person uses all the time... Oh man match up completely reversed! Because IF is always going to have 2 bars to first catch Doom then DHC into utility hyper character to kill for him... give me a break. This match up is garbage for IF no matter what assist he uses.
Wesker can use gun shot when Doom lands (he does eventually come down), it's fast enough to catch him and the chip builds up. More important when Doom has to block the shot that's when Vajra can come out and when Wesker can apply pressure. This match up is not at all bad for Wesker, he can also camp at super jump height shooting gun shots. When it comes to zoning it's about who has a life lead, if Wesker has a life lead he can easily camp as well and when Doom has to approach it's pretty bad for him because Wesker can interrupt his movements easily with well placed gun shots.
Also I think Zero's hit boxes are a big part of why he is strong. Moves that hit behind him that lead into a character kill is a big part of the frustration of fighting him. There is no reason why a move like cr.M should be hitting behind him... if that move didn't hit behind him then Justin Wong could've won EVO.
It's not just that Pizza Cutter has a huge hit box... it has a completely 360 degree hit box with a small hurtbox, decently fast start up, hits multiple times (a huge bane against armored characters), crosses up, has high hit stun and has a ton of active frames with not a lot of recovery. Basically the same advantages as Shell Kick only it has a 360 degree hit box but less active frames and can be OS'd with a throw.
Zero with Plasma Beam + Pizza Cutter is nearly impossible for many characters to approach.
Wesker can use gun shot when Doom lands (he does eventually come down), it's fast enough to catch him and the chip builds up. More important when Doom has to block the shot that's when Vajra can come out and when Wesker can apply pressure. This match up is not at all bad for Wesker, he can also camp at super jump height shooting gun shots. When it comes to zoning it's about who has a life lead, if Wesker has a life lead he can easily camp as well and when Doom has to approach it's pretty bad for him because Wesker can interrupt his movements easily with well placed gun shots.
Also I think Zero's hit boxes are a big part of why he is strong. Moves that hit behind him that lead into a character kill is a big part of the frustration of fighting him. There is no reason why a move like cr.M should be hitting behind him... if that move didn't hit behind him then Justin Wong could've won EVO.
It's not just that Pizza Cutter has a huge hit box... it has a completely 360 degree hit box with a small hurtbox, decently fast start up, hits multiple times (a huge bane against armored characters), crosses up, has high hit stun and has a ton of active frames with not a lot of recovery. Basically the same advantages as Shell Kick only it has a 360 degree hit box but less active frames and can be OS'd with a throw.
Zero with Plasma Beam + Pizza Cutter is nearly impossible for many characters to approach.
.la1n
Member
shell kick is pretty silly, but it's hitbox isn't as good as zero j.h
what is good is that it's basically active forever and has a extremely strong hitbox combined with a character who can output strong durability and movement behind it
it's like if magneto's j.h lost it's upwards hitbox but in exchange gained infinite active time
if she only had shell kick it wouldn't be too bad tbh, but her other jumping normals are pretty damn good too and more or less take care of the other spacings and situations where she'd be at risk using shell kick
her j.h is basically the exact same as magneto's in it's hitbox and her j.l not only has a massive upwards and forwards hitsphere but it also hits significantly far behind her and can be used as a crossup tridash kinda attack alongside beating out a shitload of air normals because of it's speed+size. (and you can link another j.l after it hits and you touch the ground so you get monster combos off throwing it out)
interestingly both zero's j.h and shell kick have landing frames, so capcom kinda knew what was up but lol good luck hitting those landing frames.
pizza cutter, footdive and shell kick all fall into the category of jumping attack that makes these primarily airborne characters really good 'cuz it lets them effectively fall relatively safely without much risk by nature of having an attack that is active for a significant amount of time with a massive hitbox that converts into a combo if it hits. all of those traits combined let you fall little risk as the main method of stopping air shenanigans is to toss 'em and good luck airthrowing any of these assholes without being in positive pressure situations against 'em
edit: oh yeah, shell kick crosses up super hard lol. think of it in the same way helm breaker crosses up, if that makes sense- the butt end will totally hit too (like all of morrigan's air normals) but her movement means that there are times where she'll dash and throw it out and her natural movement will make her zoom past you. it'd be like if helm breaker kept the momenum on the character off an airdash. it'd look weird as hell and have those weirdo 'hey why didn't this crossup' moments like shell kick
but who cares let's talk about the new hotness like "hey that snake eyez guy he's pretty dang good"
what is good is that it's basically active forever and has a extremely strong hitbox combined with a character who can output strong durability and movement behind it
it's like if magneto's j.h lost it's upwards hitbox but in exchange gained infinite active time
if she only had shell kick it wouldn't be too bad tbh, but her other jumping normals are pretty damn good too and more or less take care of the other spacings and situations where she'd be at risk using shell kick
her j.h is basically the exact same as magneto's in it's hitbox and her j.l not only has a massive upwards and forwards hitsphere but it also hits significantly far behind her and can be used as a crossup tridash kinda attack alongside beating out a shitload of air normals because of it's speed+size. (and you can link another j.l after it hits and you touch the ground so you get monster combos off throwing it out)
interestingly both zero's j.h and shell kick have landing frames, so capcom kinda knew what was up but lol good luck hitting those landing frames.
pizza cutter, footdive and shell kick all fall into the category of jumping attack that makes these primarily airborne characters really good 'cuz it lets them effectively fall relatively safely without much risk by nature of having an attack that is active for a significant amount of time with a massive hitbox that converts into a combo if it hits. all of those traits combined let you fall little risk as the main method of stopping air shenanigans is to toss 'em and good luck airthrowing any of these assholes without being in positive pressure situations against 'em
edit: oh yeah, shell kick crosses up super hard lol. think of it in the same way helm breaker crosses up, if that makes sense- the butt end will totally hit too (like all of morrigan's air normals) but her movement means that there are times where she'll dash and throw it out and her natural movement will make her zoom past you. it'd be like if helm breaker kept the momenum on the character off an airdash. it'd look weird as hell and have those weirdo 'hey why didn't this crossup' moments like shell kick
but who cares let's talk about the new hotness like "hey that snake eyez guy he's pretty dang good"
Really? I feel like they have comparable mobility. Oni can anime airdash and shit and his walkspeed and slashes get him around pretty well.
He also has some of the best normals in the game imo. Not saying he's as good as Evil Ryu but demon characters should have low health IMO because of their vast array of tools and godlike damage.
That's exactly my point.
Standalone these moves don't have super absurd hit boxes... it's just that their other strengths plus the other strengths of the characters combine to make those moves absurd and really highlight the strength of the hit box. I say the exact same thing for Nova... if that j.H wasn't attached to that air throw, that box dash or that high hit stun it wouldn't have been that threatening.
Every move shouldn't have absurd hit boxes especially attached to characters with an absurd toolset already.
Again exactly correct. There have been countless times where ChrisG did a dash forward with Shell Kick active and it crossed up leading into a combo and then a TAC for the finisher.