Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 8: Put mii in, coach

DaBoss said:
My friend loved using the down air for Toon Link.

Gonna go again Saturday, and this time, eaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrlllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Link has it now.
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I never hit with it, good to know. It's different, so i'm not sure if it's technically better yet. I'll leave the pros to figure it out.
 
The bounce will cement link as the superior hero.

And this will totally prevent any sort of down air spike from toon link. I'm okay with that.
 
DaBoss said:
Shows how much I know Link lol.

I thought in Brawl it was super floaty and didn't bounce.
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I think it just couldn't hit again after initial hit? Not sure. If you did it just right, toon link could bounce like 3 times.

Unbounded said:
The bounce will cement link as the superior hero.

And this will totally prevent any sort of down air spike from toon link. I'm okay with that.
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The bounce is more appropriate for adult link anyway, because of zelda 2. This also means to NEVER use dair w/ toon link off stage. It's almost guaranteed suicide since hits dont stop it.
 
Pyrokai said:
So seriously guys, are veteran competitors truly not liking Smash 4? I was really hoping it would be everyone's dream Smash :(
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There are definitely some things the vets don't like (such as more landing lag on aerials across the cast, moreso than even Brawl) and the even more limited options out of a dash or run is extremely disappointing,

However, it sounds like Nintendo might have taken some feedback from the players at E3. So whether any of this will change is up in the air.

The positives are that there is hitstun, but even though there's hitstun it's still a little too floaty to follow-up on characters for combos. The shield is still practically the same as Brawl (at least from what I've read) there's no shield drop lag at all, no shieldstun (or very little) so shieldgrabbing is still godlike, while on the other hand throws themselves seem pretty pointless outside of positioning and potential KOs (they have really high knockback generally speaking).

It's a mixed bag of opinions really. Barring some heavy condemning from tons of people who haven't even touched the game for as long as the people who went to E3, I think the outlook might be pointing to the game being decent but certainly not 100% what everyone wanted or expected: a game that offered simple movement options to take the game deeper (simple options like dashdancing and just carrying momentum from your run when you jump) and some kind of combo game.
 
OricWindstar said:
I'll post a longer version when I get home but initial reaction: Smash 4 is awesome, Mario is the man.
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VFnUqPU.gif
 
Revven said:
There are definitely some things the vets don't like (such as more landing lag on aerials across the cast, moreso than even Brawl) and the even more limited options out of a dash or run is extremely disappointing,

However, it sounds like Nintendo might have taken some feedback from the players at E3. So whether any of this will change is up in the air.

The positives are that there is hitstun, but even though there's hitstun it's still a little too floaty to follow-up on characters for combos. The shield is still practically the same as Brawl (at least from what I've read) there's no shield drop lag at all, no shieldstun (or very little) so shieldgrabbing is still godlike, while on the other hand throws themselves seem pretty pointless outside of positioning and potential KOs (they have really high knockback generally speaking).

It's a mix bag of opinions really. Barring some heavy condemning from tons of people who haven't even touched the game for as long as the people who went to E3, I think the outlook might be pointing to the game being decent but certainly not 100% what everyone wanted or expected: a game that offered simple movement options to take the game deeper (simple options like dashdancing and just carrying momentum from your run when you jump) and some kind of combo game.
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I'm really hoping they take feedback from this e3. That landing lag has got to go. It's just not fun, regardless of balance. It seems like they're on the right track. I wish E3 was earlier so they could get feedback earlier. Here's to hoping for balance tweaks online, too.
 
Just noticed this from the reddit.
-If you let go of the ledge and regrab it without touching the stage, you have no invincibility.
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This alone makes Smash 4 like, 90% more competitive than Brawl even though there are still other issues.
 
I'm actually glad throws seem to be going back towards the N64 game where they were great moves to finish someone off vs Melee/Brawl where they were more combo set up. Nothing more satisfying in Smash 64 then throwing someone backwards with Mario, seeing the spin animation, then watching them fly.
 
Revven, in your opinion, how much would the game improve if they fixed the air game/landing lag? In the actual state of the game, with the current info we have, would that be enough to make the game have much more chances in a competitive setting?

I ask this because, IMO, this is the most important issue to be fixed. It is something that heavily affects both competitive and casual play.
 
georly said:
I'm really hoping they take feedback from this e3. That landing lag has got to go. It's just not fun, regardless of balance. It seems like they're on the right track. I wish E3 was earlier so they could get feedback earlier. Here's to hoping for balance tweaks online, too.
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honestly, I'm not expecting sakurai to make changes based on fan feedback. Even if said changes were better for competitive and casual players alike, he'll most likely just dismiss it as the "small but very vocal" players wishes.

right now to me seems like the biggest issues are landing lag, OP shield and side step. wouldn't hurt to give some more options out of a dash too.
 
Next said:
honestly, I'm not expecting sakurai to make changes based on fan feedback. Even if said changes were better for competitive and casual players alike, he'll most likely just dismiss it as the "small but very vocal" players wishes.

right now to me seems like the biggest issues are landing lag, OP shield and side step. wouldn't hurt to give some more options out of a dash too.
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So you think him and Nintendo were taking in and writing down input from E3 to dismiss all of it?
 
ErrorMacro said:
Revven, in your opinion, how much would the game improve if they fixed the air game/landing lag? In the actual state of the game, with the current info we have, would that be enough to make the game have much more chances in a competitive setting?

I ask this because, IMO, this is the most important issue to be fixed. It is something that heavily affects both competitive and casual play.
Click to expand...

From what I saw and experienced, its not just the lag, but the air physics in general feel off. The lag is just what REALLY needs dealt with. Got to play for longer on 3DS cause the rep didn't give a shit about the rules, didn't force us to play Smash run and knew we wouldn't get our hands on the game until like 3 months later.

3DS version Smash attacks are too sensitive, even tapping lightly causes me to use a Smash attack.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
Played it. I won.

People saying this game are the same speed as Brawl are literally lying to you.
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The movement speed in general seems a bit faster.

The prominent lag, however, actually makes it slower than Brawl. The magnitude of gravity also feels equivalent to Brawl.

I played 14 matches earlier today, and in every single match, there were moments when I was jamming down on my controller for my character to do something and he wouldn't until a few milliseconds later. The characters seem "stuck" and sticky after landing, after attacking, in the air, etc.
 
Just spent an hour reading all of your impressions guys. Thanks for sharing them! It truly looks like it's a mix bag of opinions going on here. Most of them for the good wich is a VERY good thing, too bad reading about those issues with the jumping mechanics.

Fortunately, the game has not been released yet, it's on debug stage right now and nowhere near to be finished considering the big version of Smash is coming until Holidays and Nintendo was actually taking note of some of those concerns from the guys of the Invitational tourney so here's hope they can actually fix some of those issues considering there's still like 5 to 6 months until the Wii U game releases. Lot's of improvements have to be done in that time, no doubt about it and that's why I'm feeling optimistic. Can't freaking wait to spend the whole winter playing this with a Game Cube controller.
 
Dumb Suggestion:

Well, if many people were so concerned about lags of aerial and landing then I suggest people to take it to Sakurai and Nintendo on Twitters. Make sure that your voice could be heard.

Don't idle around and complaining on the forums because it wouldn't do anything. Someone who already experienced the game should set up the group and make sure that people would tweet and send emails to Sakurai, Nintendo, and Nintendo of America about your concerns of Aerial Lags/Slow Gravity or Jump mechanism and Landing Lags.

I'm staying out of it because I have no experience with the game and how battle engine work since I learned by playing in the game and doing it with my hands. I'm saying that if people are truly concerned about it then they should do something about it .


Edited: I'm aware of the fact that some of people here are casual. I think it might be better if you emphasized that you are casual player and that you are concerned about those features.

Edited 2: Please bring it to their attention in very kind way. Don't chew them out or being rude. If you are being rude then they will straight out ignoring you.
 
Is it lag or do you just have to commit to your attacks and you are punished if they miss.....

I remember Max saying that it is more like a SF game in which you have to commit to your moves
 
R0ckman said:
From what I saw and experienced, its not just the lag, but the air physics in general feel off. The lag is just what REALLY needs dealt with. Got to play for longer on 3DS cause the rep didn't give a shit about the rules, didn't force us to play Smash run and knew we wouldn't get our hands on the game until like 3 months later.

3DS version Smash attacks are too sensitive, even tapping lightly causes me to use a Smash attack.
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Yup. I've seen several people talking about both the air game and the landing lag problems.

From the reports I've been reading, its starting to look like some demo stuff, that gets fixed on release. I hope that's the case.
 
This is a dumb question, but I haven't played a Smash since Melee and I plan on getting this one for my Wii U. Would it be best for me to just get the Gamecube controller bundle (I do own a Pro Controller)?
 
ErrorMacro said:
Revven, in your opinion, how much would the game improve if they fixed the air game/landing lag? In the actual state of the game, with the current info we have, would that be enough to make the game have much more chances in a competitive setting?

I ask this because, IMO, this is the most important issue to be fixed. It is something that heavily affects both competitive and casual play.
Click to expand...

If they fixed just the landing lag on aerial moves, that would make approaches with short hopped aerials more viable. It would certainly be a better game and probably even have better pace because of it. They'd have to find the right balance for the landing lag but as it stands now it seems like it's too much based on what we've read and what people are saying from playing the demo.

It would certainly help the offensive game a ton, which is important.
 
As Heath said, if you've got criticism, bring it to their attention. Preferably without chewing them out. I think they're definitely going to take suggestions.

Also does anyone think that the GC adapter will let you play Brawl on the U with the GC controllers?
 
Cheddahz said:
This is a dumb question, but I haven't played a Smash since Melee and I plan on getting this one for my Wii U. Would it be best for me to just get the Gamecube controller bundle (I do own a Pro Controller)?
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If you're comfortable with the gamecube controller, you should get it.
 
All the people dissing on this game are bumming me out. I love Melee, but at this point I almost wish it didn't exist.
 
Caladrius said:
As Heath said, if you've got criticism, bring it to their attention. Preferably without chewing them out. I think they're definitely going to take suggestions.
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After reading Smash Boards, I feel like this is most certainly guaranteed to backfire and the actual constructive criticism would just get drowned out.
 
Mik317 said:
Is it lag or do you just have to commit to your attacks and you are punished if they miss.....

I remember Max saying that it is more like a SF game in which you have to commit to your moves
Click to expand...

You had to commit to your aerial moves in Melee already, things could be punished if you missed -- even in Brawl, too. The amount of landing lag for aerials (landing lag doesn't mean the end of the animation, rather the moment when you land with the aerial) seems excessive based on impressions. There is a fine balance for making things punishable when you whiff moves and hit them and it doesn't sound like they've met that at all. The amount of landing lag for aerials also effects whether you can attack someone safely and start to put up an offense. This is important in Smash because your ground moves, for most characters, can't start an offense unless you've got a really good down tilt/up tilt and even then that is highly questionable to get something going for you.
 
Cheddahz said:
This is a dumb question, but I haven't played a Smash since Melee and I plan on getting this one for my Wii U. Would it be best for me to just get the Gamecube controller bundle (I do own a Pro Controller)?
Click to expand...

If you haven't played for a loooong time, you might as well try to adjust to the Pro Controller first. If you like it, just keep playing with it :). If you don't, then buy the adapter and a gamecube controller.

But if you are used to the gamecube controller, then chances are you're not going to prefer the Pro Controller (and you can try it anyway, since you already own one), so just buy the bundle!
 
just got back from the smash event at the closest best buy near me and it was worth waiting in line 3 hours to play a 2 minute match.game looks nice. wonder why it's taking so long to come out.
 
IntelliHeath said:
Dumb Suggestion:

Well, if many people were so concerned about lags of aerial and landing then I suggest people to take it to Sakurai and Nintendo on Twitters. Make sure that your voice could be heard.

Don't idle around and complaining on the forums because it wouldn't do anything. Someone who already experienced the game should set up the group and make sure that people would tweet and send emails to Sakurai, Nintendo, and Nintendo of America about your concerns of Aerial Lags/Slow Gravity or Jump mechanism and Landing Lags.

I'm staying out of it because I have no experience with the game and how battle engine work since I learned by playing in the game and doing it with my hands. I'm saying that if people are truly concerned about it then they should do something about it .


Edited: I'm aware of the fact that some of people here are casual. I think it might be better if you emphasized that you are casual player and that you are concerned about those features.
Click to expand...

If someone points me in the direction of how to do this so that we can get the message across tactfully, I'm so down. Get one of the invitational guys, prog, scar or D1 to forward a community sourced changelog to the Nintendo reps there at E3.

...oh God, is this Marvel Patch part 2 I'm suggesting?
 
Dumb Suggestion:

Well, if many people were so concerned about lags of aerial and landing then I suggest people to take it to Sakurai and Nintendo on Twitters. Make sure that your voice could be heard.

Don't idle around and complaining on the forums because it wouldn't do anything. Someone who already experienced the game should set up the group and make sure that people would tweet and send emails to Sakurai, Nintendo, and Nintendo of America about your concerns of Aerial Lags/Slow Gravity or Jump mechanism and Landing Lags.

I'm staying out of it because I have no experience with the game and how battle engine work since I learned by playing in the game and doing it with my hands. I'm saying that if people are truly concerned about it then they should do something about it .


Edited: I'm aware of the fact that some of people here are casual. I think it might be better if you emphasized that you are casual player and that you are concerned about those features.

Edited 2: Please bring it to their attention in very kind way. Don't chew them out or being rude. If you are being rude then they will straight out ignoring you.
Click to expand...

Bump this post for new page. Also I added other comment to my edit 2.
 
Cse said:
The movement speed in general seems a bit faster.

The prominent lag, however, actually makes it slower than Brawl. The magnitude of gravity also feels equivalent to Brawl.

I played 14 matches earlier today, and in every single match, there were moments when I was jamming down on my controller for my character to do something and he wouldn't until a few milliseconds later. The characters seem "stuck" and sticky after landing, after attacking, in the air, etc.
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I see absolutely no evidence of that from any video posted. I do not understand this criticism of the game.

By landing lag do you all mean the landing after a character has exhausted all 3 jumps, or landing period? On a standard land, I see no lag at all from the videos. After all three jumps, I have seen some significant lag, which is basically fine for me. You're being punished for exhausting all three jumps. Deal with it and grab the ledge. In Smash 64, there was extensive lag after doing a triple jump. It's not like that type of thing is unprecedented.
 
From what I can tell, it seems like Sakurai made this game to be competitive, but in a different way than competitive smashers are used to. Rather than going for Melee, Smash 4 almost seems more like a traditional Street Fighter-esque fighting game in some ways, especially watching the Mii video. I think people need try to play this game in differently instead of resorting to what they know. Try to mimic the previews and trailers.
 
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