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[k_hop]

Mega Man really reminded me of Project M Snake, to be honest. Great at damaging with projectiles, not so great at finishing off the opponent. This could be because it's just plain harder to kill in Smash 4, but he really did remind me of Snake a little because of that.

Most of Snake's projectiles are kill moves, though. What you describe sounds more Young Link in Melee. Lots of zoning tools, borderline zero kill threat (down-smash is pretty much all he has as far as consistent options go).

EDIT: I misread your post--I was thinking of vanilla Brawl Snake. My bad.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Sakurai has always done whatever he wants.

He didn't bother adding in Meta Knight and Dedede until Brawl because he was being modest. Villager was deemed unusable because Sakurai couldn't see them fighting. Ganondorf was only in Melee because he had a similar build to Captain Falcon (this was the major reason he was in the game in the first place). Sakurai stated that he didn't want to alienate any fans who chose Ganondorf from the transition between Melee to Brawl so he keep the moveset mostly the same. And yet he's completely revamped the attacks of Bowser, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, and a few others in SSB4.

To be fair, he might have changed his mind since Brawl, and we might see new moves this time around. Also, DK and Yoshi are still mostly the same. Pit and Bowser got the biggest revamps. And I guess Charizard.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Aren't there older FE games that pretty much are "let's get married and bear children through social interaction" too

FE4. Never played it.

 

[MyFinestHour]

But there are two Links because both Link and Toon Link are important Nintendo characters, and Ganondorf is a Falcon clone in Brawl because Sakurai didn't want to alienate fans who used him in Melee. The Mother kids borrow moves because it allows for a more interesting moveset. None of that stuff has anything to do with Ridley.

Also, Sakurai is like the only person working at Nintendo right now who likes the Kremlings, so you better hope he sticks around.

Justifications, justifications. . .the underlying principle is that he is stubborn in keeping aspects of certain characters constant, and his view of Ridley as a boss character may be one of those.

Also, can we kill off the stupid "Sakurai is modest for leaving his characters out of Melee" myth? Dedede was planned for both 64 and Melee, in the former case, before other more important characters like Zelda, Diddy, Peach, Wario, Banjo, Marth, or a retro. That's far from modesty, no matter what quotes get made in hindsight.

Namco is almost certainly responsible for whatever Kremling content we get in this game, what with how extensively they referenced DKC in both Mario Baseball games they made. Their DK field in the first game was set to the backdrop of a Kremling Temple and featured a Klaptrap-filled river, for Chrissakes.

 

[Zubz]

I highly doubt that would do anything to effect Snake's chances. An M rated game is an M rated game, and villains are gonna villain. In MGS4 Liquid Ocelot massacred an entire fleet of innocent defenseless soldiers. Guess who still made it into Brawl?

It may be a lot less seriously-played out, but I'm pretty sure that happens in both Fire Emblem and Advance Wars, and Ridley's canonically stated to live (well, have lived) for war crimes like that. Plus, an atrocity such as

Spoiler

rape

might be too much to put near Smash Bros., villain or not.

 

[SliceSabre]

Aren't there older FE games that pretty much are "let's get married and bear children through social interaction" too

FE4 to a lesser extent, not the others though.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Justifications, justifications. . .the underlying principle is that he is stubborn in keeping aspects of certain characters constant, and his view of Ridley as a boss character may be one of those.

Also, can we kill off the stupid "Sakurai is modest for leaving his characters out of Melee" myth? Dedede was planned for both 64 and Melee, in the former case, before other more important characters like Zelda, Diddy, Peach, Wario, Banjo, Marth, or a retro. That's far from modesty, no matter what quotes get made in hindsight.

Namco is almost certainly responsible for whatever Kremling content we get in this game, what with how extensively they referenced DKC in both Mario Baseball games they made.

But he didn't actually put those characters into 64 and Melee. He put other characters first because he was being modest. And that's a pretty crazy thing to say about Namco, especially since there's never been a shortage of Kremlings in Smash. A Klaptrap-filled river has been in three of the four Smash games!!! Whaaaaaattttttt

I guess the point is, if Sakurai's reason for Ridley being a boss character every time is that he sees Ridley as only a boss character... weren't the "too big" people right all along? Also, Sakurai has been the opposite of stubborn this time around. Like half of the newcomers have a "I didn't think they would fit in Brawl, but I changed my mind" story. Villager, Mii, Pacman. Even Mac was determined to be playable material over Assist material. The guy changes his mind all the time.

 

[Kouichi]

Once he leaves and someone else takes over as director, these things will probably shift around somewhat.

When we are getting characters like Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, and Chorus Men over Ridley and K Rool, I'm glad he's the the director.

 

[Jaeger]

What's Chorus Men?

 

[Salaadin]

Holy fuck, I had no idea about that sequence in Ground Zeroes.
Welp, all respect for Kojima just went out the window.

Spoiler

The scene sounds a lot more ridiculous when spelled out like that.

I dont think it was handled particularly well by Kojima for a variety of reasons but its still pretty horrible to listen to....especially if you played Peace Walker before Ground Zeroes and know of all the events leading up to it. It got sick to my stomach listening to it.

But this isnt really the thread for discussing that scene so Ill move on..

I preordered the Wii U version of SSB yesterday with the Gamecube controller bundle thingy. I didnt find out until I got home that the controller would be wired when it releases. Do we know how long the cord will be?
Kind of sad that they didnt go wireless with it as I loved the old Wavebird. Ill have to see if I can find mine or Ill just end up using the Pro controller if that cord isnt long enough.

 

[Beelzebufo]

What's Chorus Men?

The Chorus Kids! (Chorus Men in Japan)

I preordered the Wii U version of SSB yesterday with the Gamecube controller bundle thingy. I didnt find out until I got home that the controller would be wired when it releases. Do we know how long the cord will be?
Kind of sad that they didnt go wireless with it as I loved the old Wavebird. Ill have to see if I can find mine or Ill just end up using the Pro controller if that cord isnt long enough.

Pretty much the whole reason to get the gamecube adapter is that it's a wired connection. They're selling 3rd-party classic controllers that look like Gamecube controllers if you prefer that. I'd imagine the cord length will be around the same as the Wii gamecube controller, which was longer than the gamecube gamecube controllers if I remember correctly.

 

[SenorArdilla]

Ridley was supposed to be an Assist Trophy in Brawl. But was upgraded/downgraded to Boss Status.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Would be hilarious if the losing pic of Chorus Kids/Marshal is that ಠ_ಠ face

 

[random25]

I hope the Classic mode in Smash 4 brings back the bonuses after fights. The scoring in 64/Melee versions kinda helps you unconsciously do stuff like no picking of items to get a no-item bonus score.

 

[Salaadin]

Pretty much the whole reason to get the gamecube adapter is that it's a wired connection. They're selling 3rd-party classic controllers that look like Gamecube controllers if you prefer that. I'd imagine the cord length will be around the same as the Wii gamecube controller, which was longer than the gamecube gamecube controllers if I remember correctly.

Well, I pretty much decided that if I absolutely NEED wireless, Ill just use my Pro controller. Im not attached to the Gamecube layout, its just the layout Im most familiar with for SSB. Ill gladly learn a new one.

I just really want the SSB themed controller and it would be even nicer if I could use it. Cord length will be the only question here. I looked up the length of the Wii gamecube controller cord and, if the Wii U version is the same, then I wont have any issues. Thanks for the input.

Im buying the controller bundle either way.

 

[IntelliHeath]

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

Would be hilarious if the losing pic of Chorus Kids/Marshal is that ಠ_ಠ face

Yeah, that would be great.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Link should have just shot him full of bomb arrows!

 

[BGBW]

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2...vs__marth__by_amazingartistyellow-d7oxmo3.gif

They managed to make Link even uglier!

 

[SenorArdilla]

They managed to make Link even uglier!

It's just the art style guise.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Martha isn't effeminate enough!

 

[Ryce]

Also, can we kill off the stupid "Sakurai is modest for leaving his characters out of Melee" myth? Dedede was planned for both 64 and Melee, in the former case, before other more important characters like Zelda, Diddy, Peach, Wario, Banjo, Marth, or a retro. That's far from modesty, no matter what quotes get made in hindsight.

"Planned" being the key word here. Dedede ultimately didn't make the cut... hence Sakurai's modesty. And even then, the main antagonist from Nintendo's fifth best-selling franchise would've been fully justified in either 64 or Melee. And speaking of modesty, there's also this:

Kirby is a character I designed when I was 19 years old, but I created Meta Knight when I was 22. I knew the character was popular in Japan, but last time around I held off and didn't include him in the game. I wanted to put other people's titles ahead of my own.

Namco is almost certainly responsible for whatever Kremling content we get in this game, what with how extensively they referenced DKC in both Mario Baseball games they made.

Except for the fact that Sakurai has repeatedly said he's personally responsible for what's included in the game. Kremlings are included because Sakurai wants them.

After talking to Sakurai for over an hour, one thing is very clear: he uses the word 'I' a lot. In an age where games are made by hundreds of people though, as opposed to the old days of lone programmers in their bedrooms, surely he doesn't make all the decisions by himself? "I decide what goes in the game; nobody else."

"My work generally involves supervision," he said. "The team knows what I want in the game, so I check on what everyone's producing and make sure it aligns with the game. 'Supervision' could make it sound like all I'm doing is looking at things all day, but that's not the case. The team's work is all built up according to what I told them, so it's ultimately my job to make adjustments and finalize it all.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Guys, the important thing to remember is that Sakurai is an immovable object. He makes nothing but bad decisions, never changes his mind, and has complete control over every minuscule aspect of the game.

Except for the stuff I like. Someone else probably put that in.

 

[Azure J]

I hate this goddamned match up so much in Project M. Whatever kind of hatred people have towards things like Morrigan/Doom in Marvel, I generate solo for Project M Link.

"Hey guys, let's give a character with a disjoint/sword as long as Melee Marth's:

- Shorter to non-existant recovery times on his jabs, wide arc dash attack (along with a hit box that comes from behind him just for those rollers/tomohawk [empty jump] users), up smash, forward smash and down smash.

- A boomerang projectile that does everything from combo breaking to setting up kill combos and sometimes doing both simultaneously with no recovery time on it if the Link player either re-grabs it or the other person clanks it.

- Arrows that can only be punished on start up with a read. The recovery time once again says fuck you for playing the match up thinking you can punish projectiles like any other game ever.

- The ability to stay full screen and just tell you "LOL" just with projectiles alone."

- And a shorter lag period on his up B recovery when he hits the stage while also making it very good at ascent and covering horizontal distance. Did I also mention he has a tether? That can be used as an offensive approach into kill combos?

The P:M developers buffed Mario and Link to crazy levels. /salt

 

[Lunar15]

Aren't there older FE games that pretty much are "let's get married and bear children through social interaction" too

FE4, which was split up into two generations. It's not as on the nose about the whole marriage system as Awakening is, but it's still there.

Awakening is a celebration of the entire series, so they brought back elements from nearly every game in the series. Skills, children, world maps, both dragon and animal morphs, etc.

 

[IntelliHeath]

I hate this goddamned match up so much in Project M. Whatever kind of hatred people have towards things like Morrigan/Doom in Marvel, I generate solo for Project M Link.

"Hey guys, let's give a character with a disjoint/sword as long as Melee Marth's:

- Shorter to non-existant recovery times on his jabs, wide arc dash attack (along with a hit box that comes from behind him just for those rollers/tomohawk [empty jump] users), up smash, forward smash and down smash.

- A boomerang projectile that does everything from combo breaking to setting up kill combos and sometimes doing both simultaneously with no recovery time on it if the Link player either re-grabs it or the other person clanks it.

- Arrows that can only be punished on start up with a read. The recovery time once again says fuck you for playing the match up thinking you can punish projectiles like any other game ever.

- The ability to stay full screen and just tell you "LOL" just with projectiles alone."

- And a shorter lag period on his up B recovery when he hits the stage while also making it very good at ascent and covering horizontal distance. Did I also mention he has a tether? That can be used as an offensive approach into kill combos?

The P:M developers buffed Mario and Link to crazy levels. /salt

Hmm, Thank you for the advices since I want to get better with Link.

 

[Golnei]

I hate this goddamned match up so much in Project M. Whatever kind of hatred people have towards things like Morrigan/Doom in Marvel, I generate solo for Project M Link.
The P:M developers buffed Mario and Link to crazy levels. /salt

When SSB4 comes out, you can enjoy having the same pair be a 10-0 matchup in Marth's favour.

 

[Jaeger]

The P:M developers buffed Mario and Link to crazy levels. /salt

Solution.

 

[IntelliHeath]

When SSB4 comes out, you can enjoy having the same pair be a 10-0 matchup in Marth's favour.

But Marth got nerf in Smash 4 demo.

 

[Azure J]

Hmm, Thank you for the advices since I want to get better with Link.

You truly are the most evil guy ever. Especially after your magic red shells in Mario Kart 8.

When SSB4 comes out, you can enjoy having the same pair be a 10-0 matchup in Marth's favour.

Poor Link man. It's either he's complete shit or the most frustrating thing in the series with no in between.

 

[Geminosity]

I think its moreso there are two Fire Emblem camps when it comes to Awakening:

The people who deride it as waifu-filled cash in that doesn't deserve the name Fire Emblem name and hate everything about it.

And those who enjoy the game and are happy it was successful so that Nintendo didn't axe the series like they were originally planning to if it wasn't successful.

AW in the post you replied to means Advance Wars rather than Awakening :3

...and then they make out :3

I'd definitely be up for Robin or Anna as the FE:A rep. Lucina would be better to me than Chrom too though
The idea of Chrom summoning other characters for his attacks kinda irks me because it'd be like the game going "LOOK AT ALL THESE COOL CHARACTERS WE COULD'VE LET YOU PLAY INSTEAD OF CHROM!" :/

 

[Kriken]

I hate this goddamned match up so much in Project M. Whatever kind of hatred people have towards things like Morrigan/Doom in Marvel, I generate solo for Project M Link.

"Hey guys, let's give a character with a disjoint/sword as long as Melee Marth's:

- Shorter to non-existant recovery times on his jabs, wide arc dash attack (along with a hit box that comes from behind him just for those rollers/tomohawk [empty jump] users), up smash, forward smash and down smash.

- A boomerang projectile that does everything from combo breaking to setting up kill combos and sometimes doing both simultaneously with no recovery time on it if the Link player either re-grabs it or the other person clanks it.

- Arrows that can only be punished on start up with a read. The recovery time once again says fuck you for playing the match up thinking you can punish projectiles like any other game ever.

- The ability to stay full screen and just tell you "LOL" just with projectiles alone."

- And a shorter lag period on his up B recovery when he hits the stage while also making it very good at ascent and covering horizontal distance. Did I also mention he has a tether? That can be used as an offensive approach into kill combos?

The P:M developers buffed Mario and Link to crazy levels. /salt

Considering how much Link has sucked ass in every Smash game since 64 (He was okay there) I welcome his buffs, make him a really fun character to use as an alt

 

[Beelzebufo]

When SSB4 comes out, you can enjoy having the same pair be a 10-0 matchup in Marth's favour.

Marth is bad now though!

 

[Kriken]

Guize, guize!1! The E3 build is the final build, better get used to Marth and Fox being mid tier with ZSS being this game's Meta Knight

 

[Golnei]

I'd definitely be up for Robin or Anna as the FE:A rep. Lucina would be better to me than Chrom too though
The idea of Chrom summoning other characters for his attacks kinda irks me because it'd be like the game going "LOOK AT ALL THESE COOL CHARACTERS WE COULD'VE LET YOU PLAY INSTEAD OF CHROM!" :/

Chrom's also fairly low on my list of Fire Emblem reps I'd want to see; but having the other characters in a support role would at least be better than having them merely as ATs or trophies. Though that idea would be better served by having it be Robin with Einherjar instead...

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Guys, the important thing to remember is that Sakurai is an immovable object. He makes nothing but bad decisions, never changes his mind, and has complete control over every minuscule aspect of the game.

Except for the stuff I like. Someone else probably put that in.

You should consider editing his wikipedia, you're pretty good at summarising him.

 

[k_hop]

Considering how much Link has sucked ass in every Smash game since 64 (He was okay there) I welcome his buffs, make him a really fun character to use as an alt

I'm with this guy. Link was the first character I wanted to main in Melee as a youngster, and all it brought me was frustration. Dude just sucks ass in that game. 64, I clean house. Brawl, well... I don't actually know anybody IRL who still plays vanilla Brawl (it's mostly Brawl+). But Project M? Link all day. Boomerangs with actual freaking hitstun just like the good ol' days.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Mighty No. 9 makes me wish there was an indie Smash Bros,

...just so I could beat his stupid face up with Shovel Knight

 

[IntelliHeath]

You truly are the most evil guy ever. Especially after your magic red shells in Mario Kart 8.

HAHAHA! Link was my main in 64 and Melee. His version in brawl is pretty BAD, but when I picked up Link again in Project M. I felt that he was right but that was way before I found out that he's top tier material in Project M.

I was trying to figure out what made him so good other than dash attack and his special items.

We should play more on Mario Kart 8. My luck with items is pretty shitty now.

 

[Beelzebufo]

HAHAHA! Link was my main in 64 and Melee. His version in brawl is pretty BAD, but when I picked up Link again in Project M. I felt that he was right but that was way before I found out that he's top tier material in Project M.

I was trying to figure out what made him so good other than dash attack and his special items.

We should play more on Mario Kart 8. My luck with items is pretty shitty now.

Pretty much everything is just faster, and he can actually make it back to the stage.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Pretty much everything is just faster, and he can actually make it back to the stage.

Yeah, his hook shot is pretty good. I believe that it's longer than Brawl's right?

 

[Geminosity]

Chrom's also fairly low on my list of Fire Emblem reps I'd want to see; but having the other characters in a support role would at least be better than having them merely as ATs or trophies. Though that idea would be better served by having it be Robin with Einherjar instead...

That's a pretty good idea actually :3
I've seen people mention that transformations being out means summons are unlikely but if you think about it we seem to have plenty resources for assist trophies and whatnot; perhaps aside from the clunkiness and not fitting with the Amiibo idea, the problem with transforming was the fact it was literally swapping out assets rather than simply adding in pre-loaded ones :3

 

[DaBoss]

Link's Up Special on the ground is like a charged smash attack with spike properties.

I'm so glad ledge-snapping is a thing cause god do some recoveries just straight up suck ass when it comes to sweet-spotting, especially Captain Falcon's.

 

[Azure J]

Link's Up Special on the ground is like a charged smash attack with spike properties.

I'm so glad ledge-snapping is a thing cause god do some recoveries just straight up suck ass when it comes to sweet-spotting, especially Captain Falcon's.

At one point, I had to seriously step back and re-evaluate how much of my hate for Link was just me being bad at video games. The idea that missing a ledge sweet spot and hitting him mid spin attack = the most disrespectful spike KO ever just never sat right with me. :lol

I pretty much learned things like ledge jumping/camping (to wait out Spin Attacks at the edge), smash DI (to tech on the ground if I landed on a spin attack), power shielding (to deal with derparang) and crouch cancelling (again, derparangs and general things) just to stay in the ring against my brother's campy ass Link.

Spoiler

How the hell does Mario/Link/Roy get me so mad/upset at myself when I play Marth/Pit/Fox? :lol

Guize, guize!1! The E3 build is the final build, better get used to Marth and Fox being mid tier with ZSS being this game's Meta Knight

This looks like the Kings of Cali stream chat. It's mind boggling how many people either believe this or troll like this regularly. Makes talking about Smash 4 in a mechanical or optimistic manner a completely fruitless endeavor.

 

[IntelliHeath]

At one point, I had to seriously step back and re-evaluate how much of my hate for Link was just me being bad at video games. The idea that missing a ledge sweet spot and hitting him mid spin attack = the most disrespectful spike KO ever just never sat right with me. :lol

I pretty much learned things like ledge jumping/camping (to wait out Spin Attacks at the edge), smash DI (to tech on the ground if I landed on a spin attack), power shielding (to deal with derparang) and crouch cancelling (again, derparangs and general things) just to stay in the ring against my brother's campy ass Link.

Spoiler

How the hell does Mario/Link/Roy get me so mad/upset at myself when I play Marth/Pit/Fox? :lol

Okay, I guess we wouldn't play together ever again since I main Mario, Link, Roy and other few characters. Welp.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Wait, you have trouble against Roy? I thought he was one of the worse characters.

 

[Azure J]

Okay, I guess we wouldn't play together ever again since I main Mario, Link, Roy and other few characters. Welp.

Haha, I wouldn't ever not play someone because of their character choices. Just get ready for a lot of ribbing.

*See my posting style in Mario Kart 8 thread being generally abrasive and rude as all hell despite loving everyone I play with and the community in general.

Wait, you have trouble against Roy? I thought he was one of the worse characters.

It was just salt over learning a new matchup + sword envy because Roy can get silly KOs on my primary trio.

 

[DaBoss]

Some of the percents that Roy can get a KO at is just ridiculous. And no way is Roy bad. Only characters I think are shit are Olimar and Toon Link, but the latter is much much better than Olimar.

EDIT: There's also Luigi, but I think that is more due to me not liking how Luigi plays in Smash in general.

*See my posting style in Mario Kart 8 thread being generally abrasive and rude as all hell despite loving everyone I play with and the community in general.

This is how everyone posts in general regarding Mario Kart 8™.*

*Actually they don't, but they do post like that towards Mario Kart 8™.

 

[Moonlight]

Wait, you have trouble against Roy? I thought he was one of the worse characters.

You say this, and I consider all the times my friend's Roy has completely wrecked me and my Samus.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Only characters I think are shit are Olimar and Toon Link, but the latter is much much better than Olimar.

I don't even play PM and this makes me sad.