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Times Piece/ CNN Interview: "Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Culture"

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Axelhortsemchi

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An acquaintance of mine recently had an opinion article of hers wind up on the national stage. I searched for any discussion of this prior to making this thread and didn't find any, so feel free to lock if it's redundant.

It started as a piece in University of Mississippi newspaper, the Daily Mississippian, but wound up on the Times website shortly afterwards.

http://time.com/2969951/dear-white-gays-stop-stealing-black-female-culture/

It's a short read, but here are some excerpts:
you are not a black woman, and you do not get to claim either blackness or womanhood. It is not yours. It is not for you.

Let me explain.

Black people can’t have anything. Any of these things include, but aren’t limited to: a general sense of physical safety, comfort with law enforcement, adequate funding and appreciation for black spaces like schools and neighborhoods, appropriate venues for our voices to be heard about criticism of issues without our race going on trial because of it, and solid voting rights (cc: Chris McDaniel).
Click to expand...
At the end of the day, if you are a white male, gay or not, you retain so much privilege. What is extremely unfairly denied you because of your sexuality could float back to you, if no one knew that you preferred the romantic and sexual company of men over women. (You know what I’m talking about. Those “anonymous” torsos on Grindr, Jack’d and Adam4Adam, show very familiar heterosexual faces to the public.) The difference is that the black women with whom you think you align so well, whose language you use and stereotypical mannerisms you adopt, cannot hide their blackness and womanhood to protect themselves the way that you can hide your homosexuality. We have no place to hide, or means to do it even if we desired them.
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Naturally, her article has received a lot of backlash, which lead to her going on CNN to defend it. Here's a link to the interview; as always, read the comments at your own risk. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhW2LMcgw5M

Besides being excited about someone I know suddenly finding herself briefly in the national spotlight, she's digging deeply into societal issues of race, gender, and sexuality, so I thought it was appropriate for gaf discussion, and would like to hear what others think of it.

On my end, I'm sympathetic to the root of her message, but I don't entirely agree with how she got there. While there does seem to be something wrong with gay white men going up to women and acting as if they can only talk to them through stereotypes, I'm not sure if that's the same thing as all the cultural appropriation talk she went into. I also found her dismissiveness towards gay men a bit offputting, and saying that they can just hide their sexuality seems wildly insensitive for an article about being more respectful towards disadvantaged groups. In all fairness, she did say that wasn't her intent in the interview.
 
I wasn't aware there was an explosion of gay men behaving like black women.

Is it like PopGAF in real life?
 
At this point it's our fault Black people, we need to stop coming up with cool and fun cultural stuff. We should have learned our lesson with Elvis.

Escape Goat said:
Stop acting black unless you can get discriminated against too. Her argument is very strange.
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To quote a wise man "Everyone wants to be a nigga, but don't nobody want to be a nigga."
 
I don't get the argument. cultural memes are not appropriated, just shared.

I do agree that black culture is very influential.
 
Dear everybody . . . stop whining about anyone 'stealing your culture'.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery . . . don't bitch about it.
 
Slayven said:
Yet white culture puts millions after millions to fight against homosexuals.
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Obviously. Not disputing that.

I'm pointing it out primarily because African Americans tend to skew liberal on most issues, so it's a bit disconcerting that there is a considerable amount of homophobia among them.

I believe President Obama has acknowledged that homophobia is an issue within the black community, so I don't think I'm out of line here. I apologize for any offense.

EDIT: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/8061.html
 
Article had points to make but I feel it falls short of delivering them effectively. Its too vague and reads almost tabloid. I feel like I'm missing the links to all the content she speaks of as context for something that confuses me.
you aren’t a strong black woman, or a ghetto girl, or any of that other foolery that some of you with trash Vine accounts try to be.
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Is this a trend, to emulate black women; back to the beginning:
“Shanequa from around the way”
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how funny you think it is to call yourself Quita or Keisha or for which black male you’ve been bottoming
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These are things I don't run into and just don't understand how "big of a thing" they are, in popularity and offensiveness.

I accept the systematic racism in the USA as a reality but she fails to cite any proof or study that demonstrates such a phenomenon in the US. Again, its the weakness of her presentation and not the intended message (from what I understand of it).
 
I never understood why it's ok and seemingly doesn't bother women/society at large for gay men to call women bitches colloquially (not as an insult). But it's like, even straight men are adopting that lexicon now too. So weird.
 
BertramCooper said:
The black community has some weird issues with homosexuality.

I don't say that as a condemnation or anything, just to be clear.
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I'm pretty sure us white people are at the forefront of treating gay people like second class citizens in this country. The Mormon church has spent how much money fighting gay marriage?
 
BertramCooper said:
Obviously. Not disputing that.

I'm pointing it out primarily because African Americans tend to skew liberal on most issues, so it's a bit disconcerting that there is a considerable amount of homophobia among them.

I believe President Obama has acknowledged that homophobia is an issue within the black community, so I don't think I'm out of line here. I apologize for any offense.

EDIT: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/8061.html
Click to expand...

There is a movie that explorers this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX4XiTSuuF0

We are not a monolith
 
BertramCooper said:
Obviously. Not disputing that.

I'm pointing it out primarily because African Americans tend to skew liberal on most issues, so it's a bit disconcerting that there is a considerable amount of homophobia among them.

I believe President Obama has acknowledged that homophobia is an issue within the black community, so I don't think I'm out of line here. I apologize for any offense.

EDIT: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/8061.html
Click to expand...

I think a lot of it is that blacks tend to be intensely religious, more so than other races.
 
It's always weird to me when people complain about people emulating their culture, since it happens everywhere and is happening all the time.
 
But here’s the shade — the non-black people who get to enjoy all of the fun things about blackness will never have to experience the ugliness of the black experience, systemic racism and the dangers of simply living while black.
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This criticism makes no sense. The solution would be to stop black people from experiencing systematic racism, not to stop white people from enjoying black culture. She also doesn't articulate WHY the oppression black people face has anything to do with other people using their cultural mannerisms.
 
Reaction against cultural appropriation seems counterproductive in combating racism. The idea isn't well supported by the article, either. Maybe someone more informed can explain it to me.
 
Guevara said:
Black people: stop being so cool all the time, with your music and culture, even your food.
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I don't know about that last part. I mean, soul food? It's kind of alright. Greasy. But not very exciting. Asians got the cool and hip food thing down pat.
 
Enzom21 said:
We do huh? Enlighten me as to what those issues are.
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http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2013/05/02/180548388/crunch-the-numbers-on-blacks-views-on-gays

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/poll-55-blacks-say-gay-rights-not-same-civil-rights

Just some interesting statistics on how the black community views gays.

Obviously every community has issues, but the statistics and reasons are different. Considering black people know the struggle of attaining equality, their views on the gay struggle for equality would be different then the white community. For example, 55% don't view gay rights as the same as civil rights, though I can see no difference between them (people who are born a certain way they cannot change wanting equality).
 
Oh no she di-dn't, hold mah hoops gurrrl.

I don't get the problem but I am neither a gay white man or a sassy black woman, but complaining that you can't act like a black woman because you don't have their problems is weird.
 
speculawyer said:
Dear everybody . . . stop whining about anyone 'stealing your culture'.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery . . . don't bitch about it.
Click to expand...

A little extreme, but I basically feel the same way about cultural appropriation in general.

Back in the day, "cultural appropriation" was white label executives rolling into black neighborhoods, going into our clubs and hearing what was hot in our culture, taking it back to the suburbs, slapping white faces on it and calling it theirs. No credit given whatsoever. Now THAT was some bullshit.

But now it seems like people get all up in a huff whenever a white person does something that can be traced back to another culture...even if that white person is themselves giving full credit and acknowledging the culture that inspired them. And I can't roll with that.

Speaking as a black person, once upon a time we wanted our culture to be considered "normal". Part of the everyday discourse in a positive way.I look at it as a GOOD THING when black culture is emulated, when its allowed to be an open source of inspiration for not JUST black people. Especially nowadays when people aren't afraid to admit where it all comes from.

But lately there seems to be this weird trend where we're popularizing black culture, while at the same time trying to keep it exclusive. That's not possible.
 
BertramCooper said:
Thanks for posting.

Again, apologies if I caused any offense. I certainly appreciate how sensitive issues like this are.
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It's get tiring that when black and gays are brought up first thing is "black people are homophobic", shit cuts off all lines of discussion. There are problems but we are far from the only people with them.
 
Slayven said:
It's get tiring that when black and gays are brought up first thing is "black people are homophobic", shit cuts off all lines of discussion. There are problems but we are far from the only people with them.
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Definitely didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

Religion is obviously the bigger factor at work, I think it's relatively safe to say.
 
Even though it was always around, I feel like the blacks being more homophobic/more against gay marriage than any other group only exploded after the Prop 8 exit poll showing 70% of blacks voted against it.

Of course that exit poll has since been proven to be bullshit, but most don't know that. They only remember hearing that in the immediate aftermath of Prop 8.
 
Honestly, I think a lot of the reason her article got so big was because she wrote it in an incredibly controversy-garnering manner.

I agree with a lot of you on her whole notion of owning certain cultural ideas being kind of weird. Assuming the interview wasn't a back peddle (which I don't think it was), she may have been trying to express that addressing black women in a stereotypical manner is not cool, which seems much more reasonable to me. Again, she picked an odd way of expressing that sentiment, though.

And yeah, attitudes towards homosexuals have problems in all manners of communities throughout the United States, and it is pretty bad in the south.

royalan said:
A little extreme, but I basically feel the same way about cultural appropriation in general.

Back in the day, "cultural appropriation" was white label executives rolling into black neighborhoods, going into our clubs and hearing what was hot in our culture, taking it back to the suburbs, slapping white faces on it and calling it theirs. No credit given whatsoever. Now THAT was some bullshit.

But now it seems like people get all up in a huff whenever a white person does something that can be traced back to another culture...even if that white person is themselves giving full credit and acknowledging the culture that inspired them. And I can't roll with that.

Speaking as a black person, once upon a time we wanted our culture to be considered "normal". Part of the everyday discourse in a positive way.I look at it as a GOOD THING when black culture is emulated, when its allowed to be an open source of inspiration for not JUST black people. Especially nowadays when people aren't afraid to admit where it all comes from.

But lately there seems to be this weird trend where we're popularizing black culture, while at the same time trying to keep it exclusive. That's not possible.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think there's a huge difference between what you're talking about happening in the past and what she's talking about. I've seen her write before, and she is prone to throwing around 'cultural appropriation' real loosely
 
The transition will be complete when gay guys turn on Beyonce.
vN8c7rR.png
 
Integration of different cultures might be America's greatest success. It seems so backwards to deride the erosion of social cleavages.
 
Here's the crux of the article for people who don't like reading:

If you love some of the same things that some black women love, by all means, you and your black girlfriends go ahead and rock the hell out. Regardless of what our privileges and lack of privileges are, regardless of the laws and rhetoric that have attempted to divide us, we are equal, even though we aren’t the same, and that is okay. Claiming our identity for what’s sweet without ever having to taste its sour is not. Breathing fire behind ugly stereotypes that reduce black females to loud caricatures for you to emulate isn’t, either.
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Her real problem is when gay guys say "I'm a strong black woman" or anything to that effect. Those kinds of statements are very dehumanizing and racist.

Being a black woman is a real identity for many people and comes with a lot of discrimination. It's not a costume for you to throw on whenever you feel like.

Perpetuating the "strong black woman" stereotype is harmful to real black women since they all have moment where they don't feel strong. The myth of the invincible unrapeable black woman is probably related to higher rates of domestic violence and sexual assault black women face. People mistakenly believe that as a "strong black woman" you would have done a better job of fighting back.
 
royalan said:
A little extreme, but I basically feel the same way about cultural appropriation in general.

Back in the day, "cultural appropriation" was white label executives rolling into black neighborhoods, going into our clubs and hearing what was hot in our culture, taking it back to the suburbs, slapping white faces on it and calling it theirs. No credit given whatsoever. Now THAT was some bullshit.

But now it seems like people get all up in a huff whenever a white person does something that can be traced back to another culture...even if that white person is themselves giving full credit and acknowledging the culture that inspired them. And I can't roll with that.

Speaking as a black person, once upon a time we wanted our culture to be considered "normal". Part of the everyday discourse in a positive way.I look at it as a GOOD THING when black culture is emulated, when its allowed to be an open source of inspiration for not JUST black people. Especially nowadays when people aren't afraid to admit where it all comes from.

But lately there seems to be this weird trend where we're popularizing black culture, while at the same time trying to keep it exclusive. That's not possible.
Click to expand...

.
 
I have some sympathy about the complaints involving appropriating culture, but honestly, not a lot. Because culture is pretty difficult to stop from spreading. If you invent something good, it's going to get around. Nearly every kind of music we listen to today came from black roots. The books we read have been profoundly influenced by black writers and black musicians who inspired their white authors. American food, language, art, dance...you name it and much of it came from, or was heavily influenced by black roots.

And in many of these cases, the black artists got completely fucked over. And that sucks, and it was absolutely a product of insitutionalized racism. But we're talking culture here, which pours and seeps through every structural gap of a society. You can't restrain it. You can't stop a gay kid in Idaho from empathizing and admiring a black woman who appears to be unafraid of anyone. You can't stop a Norwegian kid from spittin Tupac and trying to be like him. You can' t stop -- and thankfully so -- a generation of non-English, non-black rappers, from all over the world, falling in love with hip-hop and wanting to be a part of it. And I'll belt out 110th Street for Bobbie Womack without feeling guilty.

White Europeans perpetrated an atrocity of Africans, and in return they gave us the things we love the most. It's awful, and in every specific instance still available, I'm for black artists getting credit and compensation for their work, and when not possible, I think it's a good idea for us to remember from whence much of our culture came.

But dismissing out of hand the feelings of black people, many of whose voices were effectively stolen, who saw white artists take their creations and make millions while they starved, who today see white people putting on "blackness" like a sweater while they're hanging out with their brehs, and taking it off when the cop pulls them over seems fairly callous, too.
 
So... she wishes she could hide her race, and has probably found the A4A app on her boyfriend's iphone? Is that our takeaway?

Whatever the point, the piece is vile and contributes nothing to the advancement of either "group". She is so not getting an invite to my next Drag Race watch party!
 
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