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[Two Words]

Microsoft needs to do what Sony did and do a whole new launch. Remember Sony's $299/It Only Does Everything campaign with the slim PS3 and Kevin Butler? They need to do that.

In 2015 they need to release a slimmed down version that costs $299 without Kinect. They need to rebrand sll marketing away from previous marketing. And they need to sell on games as the main focus on marketing

Trust me Microsoft. I am quite the expert on arm-chair marketing.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

The PS3 was a third place system behind the Wii and the 360.

Yep.

And PS4 is the lowest selling market leading console on a monthly basis in two generations. Barring both it and One's stellar launches neither is making up the difference of Wii and PS2. Both have had really high starts though which is masking the collapse both have seen since.

 

[ethomaz]

Yep.

And PS4 is the lowest selling market leading console on a monthly basis in two generations. Barring both it and One's stellar launches neither is making up the difference of Wii and PS2. Both have had really high starts though which is masking the collapse both have seen since.

PS4 is below Wii and PS2 at same period in sales?

 

[rokkerkory]

Yep.

And PS4 is the lowest selling market leading console on a monthly basis in two generations. Barring both it and One's stellar launches neither is making up the difference of Wii and PS2. Both have had really high starts though which is masking the collapse both have seen since.

This is why need all 3 to succeed.

 

[Aces&Eights]

I have a problem with people using the term "price drop" The dayone console did not get a price drop. MS removed Kinect and are now selling a second console. I think this is the reason the bump is not nearly that substantial. Had they left in kinect and just dropped it to $399 then we would have most likely seen a lot more sales.

This is all small potatoes, anyway. We are at the front end of summer and in the dreaded gaming drought. People are out at the lake and doing outdoors stuff. Once the season turns and that Destiny ps4 bundle hits is when we are going to start seeing real numbers on both sides. Whoever has the momentum rolling into the holidays is going to be doing quite well..

 

[Aquamarine]

Hmm...

 

[unbias]

This is why need all 3 to succeed.

Actually, this could actually be just as much of a sign that the hardware market is trying to contract, again.

 

[vcc]

You never know. It could start bridging the gap if Microsoft started aggressively pricing. I'm talking pricing the Xbox One $100 or more less than the PS4. I think that'd make a difference. Though Sony does have some very strong mind share right now, and is coming out with some very strong exclusives in 2015, even from the very beginning (Order 1886 and Bloodborne Feb/March combo).

Pricing would help, probably have to coincide with Halo 5, a complete change in the way they market to places which aren't America, a diversification of their studios and a massive change in the way they regard their customers. Might take a while.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

PS4 is below Wii and PS2 at same period in sales?

Barring Nov and Dec. Launch months yes. Quite a bit lower. Overall they are higher, but they cratered much quicker. Neither PS2 nor Wii saw months under 200k for a long while. They definitely didn't see them in the first year.

Both One and PS4's monthly averages since January in America have been closer to GCN and Xbox performance.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Hmm...

I saw that.

But that's okay because my English in that post was atrocious.

Almost like it isn't my first language... which it is for 31 years at least.

 

[BigDug13]

The Wii was a completely anomalous console. We can keep discussing how quickly it sold all day, but no other game console has ever or will ever recapture that soccer mom and grandpa crowd who wanted to play Wii bowling and do yoga on their fit board. This generation will see a contraction in overall console sales simply because that crowd that ran out to get that waggle Wii system will not be doing that this time.

Barring Nov and Dec. Launch months yes. Quite a bit lower. Overall they are higher, but they cratered much quicker. Neither PS2 nor Wii saw months under 200k for a long while. They definitely didn't see them in the first year.

Both One and PS4's monthly averages since January in America have been closer to GCN and Xbox performance.

This console generation was destined to start slow, because we are seeing more cross-gen game releases than ever before. When CoD continues to churn out on last gen consoles, it causes a slow move to next gen. Even Destiny and Titanfall which were supposed to be system movers can be purchased on 360 which is by far the U.S. market's favorite console for core games.

Until you simply can't buy games that are coming out on 360 anymore, then maybe we will see a bit of a stronger push. Once kids can't get that latest CoD, they're going to be pushing for a PS4 or XBO.

 

[Biker19]

Actually, this could actually be just as much of a sign that the hardware market is trying to contract, again.

The Wii was a completely anomalous console. We can keep discussing how quickly it sold all day, but no other game console has ever or will ever recapture that soccer mom and grandpa crowd who wanted to play Wii bowling and do yoga on their fit board. This generation will see a contraction in overall console sales simply because that crowd that ran out to get that waggle Wii system will not be doing that this time.

These. We're not gonna be seeing 264+ million consoles sold like last gen between the PS3, 360, & Wii.

Only console that may be lucky in reaching even 60 million is PS4. Both Wii U & Xbox One are very unappealing to consumers compared to both Wii & Xbox 360, & both Nintendo & Microsoft are on track to going back to where they were unpopular with the Original Xbox & Gamecube.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

To put it another way...

We're only a few months away from Wii overtaking PS4 in LtD sales and maybe six months to a year before PS2 does it.

edit: Barring explosive expansion from the PS4.

 

[RexNovis]

There's nothing wrong with rooting for the underdog. Besides, I was an Xbox 360 owner last gen so I don't feel like I want to completely abandon them just because they're stumbling. That's not who I am.

Hmm well that's interesting considering you said this in response to me when I said MS had lost my trust as a consumer.

I'm always wary when someone mentions a multibillion dollar corporation needing to earn back trust. When a friend screws you over, your friend needs to earn back trust.

But, as cheesy and cliché as this may sound, corporations are not people. Sony and Microsoft aren't our friends. They exist to make money off of us. "For the gamers" is a PR point to make it seem like they're there for us and have our best interests in mind, pure and simple.

Therefore, it's perfectly okay for someone to vote with their wallet and support one side over another for any reason if they choose to, but we shouldn't be pretending that either of them want to take us out for ice cream, or provide us a product or service out of the goodness of their hearts.

So when someone else personifies Microsoft for purposes pertaining to their recent snafus it's not ok but when it comes to Microsoft as the friend you don't want to abandon that's perfectly fine. Peculiar that.

edit* just saw Bish's post

Spoiler

Please don't ban me!

 

[SwiftDeath]

Barring Nov and Dec. Launch months yes. Quite a bit lower. Overall they are higher, but they cratered much quicker. Neither PS2 nor Wii saw months under 200k for a long while. They definitely didn't see them in the first year.

Both One and PS4's monthly averages since January in America have been closer to GCN and Xbox performance.

While there is potential to be worried about the state of the console market, it is worth noting we've never had a generation with so much stock available upfront, with initial production being so high. While I don't think you can just compare LTD's and call the market okay, I also don't think you can just write off the launch months and write the console market off as dead. This holiday season should be quite telling I imagine in what the future holds for these consoles.

 

[travisbickle]

This is why need all 3 to succeed.

One really successful console may be better, rise of the indie and smaller title would be easier and more cost effective on one console, and it would have the added effect of reducing time for big budget titles.

 

[Off-Kilter]

Predictable. Doesn't mean a whole lot given how terrible May was (which was also equally predictable given the announcement of the Kinectless SKU that would go on sale the month after).

 

[ethomaz]

Barring Nov and Dec. Launch months yes. Quite a bit lower. Overall they are higher, but they cratered much quicker. Neither PS2 nor Wii saw months under 200k for a long while. They definitely didn't see them in the first year.

Both One and PS4's monthly averages since January in America have been closer to GCN and Xbox performance.

That is normal, no?

If you have the best and strong launch of the history of videogames of course you have a slower period in the next months... I don't remember PS2 but Wii was supply constrained at launch so the months after was higher than expected.

If PS4 is yet overall ahead Wii then it is fine... Wii shipped 9.27m at end of June, 2007... I think PS4 shipped more at end of June, 2014... so it is fine yet.

 

[Gator86]

One really successful console may be better, rise of the indie and smaller title would be easier and more cost effective on one console, and it would have the added effect of reducing time for big budget titles.

Agreed. Especially considering the overlap in market and libraries between the ps4 and XBone. I'm not sure both need to succeed as long as the winner puts up good numbers. The Wii U is already a lost cause but Nintendo survived the GameCube so they'll be fine.

 

[FaultTolerance]

So when someone else personifies Microsoft for purposes pertaining to their recent snafus it's not ok but when it comes to Microsoft as the friend you don't want to abandon that's perfectly fine. Peculiar that.

Different context. When we were talking before, it was regarding drama surrounding the launch and how it affected both of us differently.

I never said I see Microsoft as a friend. Video games as a whole are very important to me, regardless of the company who makes it. They've been my hobby since I was 6 years old, I don't want to abandon any of it.

 

[artist]

This console generation was destined to start slow, because we are seeing more cross-gen game releases than ever before. When CoD continues to churn out on last gen consoles, it causes a slow move to next gen. Even Destiny and Titanfall which were supposed to be system movers can be purchased on 360 which is by far the U.S. market's favorite console for core games.

Until you simply can't buy games that are coming out on 360 anymore, then maybe we will see a bit of a stronger push. Once kids can't get that latest CoD, they're going to be pushing for a PS4 or XBO.

I think you have it the other way round'

The generation was off to the fastest start because of pent up demand and longer than normal last-gen cycle. Add to that the fact that neither of the consoles had any major supply constraints (manufacturing, post-production issues etc.) you saw the demand burned off quicker than say 360 for example.

I do agree with your cross-gen point in that once we see more PS4/bone only games, the adoption rate should pick up. How much, that's another tricky question.

 

[Aquamarine]

Barring Nov and Dec. Launch months yes. Quite a bit lower. Overall they are higher, but they cratered much quicker. Neither PS2 nor Wii saw months under 200k for a long while. They definitely didn't see them in the first year.

Both One and PS4's monthly averages since January in America have been closer to GCN and Xbox performance.

I think you're stretching the narrative just a tad in terms of "cratering."

PS4 had the largest launch allocation of any console in a long time. Sony tried their absolute hardest to meet the unprecedented demand. If the launch was more staggered, we'd see that demand more visible in the post-holiday months.


First January - First May:


PS2 (January 2001 - May 2001): 1.6 million

Wii (January 2007 - May 2007): 1.7 million

360 (January 2006 - May 2006): 1.1 million

PS4 (January 2014 - May 2014): 1.3 million


This figure would undoubtedly be higher if it wasn't for the massive 2 million consoles sold at launch. And the Wii hit 259K in March 2007 and the PS2 was <200K in November 2000 and 233K in February 2001. They did have lows that approached Sony's slightly sub-200K figures despite maintaining generally higher monthly averages.

HOWEVER, as for future trajectory, I do agree that PS4 seems to be cooling off faster than the PS2 or the Wii.

But I'd give it more time before coming to a definitive conclusion. Like through the first Holiday season to see if PS4 rebounds to be more in line with PS2 and Wii. There was a nice positive effect from Watch_Dogs...we'll see if Destiny amps it up even more after the summer lull.

 

[quetz67]

Predictable. Doesn't mean a whole lot given how terrible May was (which was also equally predictable given the announcement of the Kinectless SKU that would go on sale the month after).

It is obvious that May and June combined is about where they were at before (and where they'll return if July rankings are an indication).

Doubling sales is a sure fire press release, but beyond that it is obvious nothing has changed. At the price of revealing another lie, spending more money on R&D and probably even more xbox ones sitting on shelves and in warehouses.

 

[ryan299]

Yep.

And PS4 is the lowest selling market leading console on a monthly basis in two generations. Barring both it and One's stellar launches neither is making up the difference of Wii and PS2. Both have had really high starts though which is masking the collapse both have seen since.

I'm more interested in that stat. The console market isn't the same and I'm shocked that a lot of the wall street guys said the market is going to grow. I really don't see it.

 

[Psykodoughboy]

No way Microsoft sold 83.7 million Xbox 360. What was the fail rate again? like 24%(game informer saying it was higher 54.2) I say the right number is around 68-73 million.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I think you're stretching the narrative just a tad in terms of "cratering."

PS4 had the largest launch allocation of any console in a long time. Sony tried their absolute hardest to meet the unprecedented demand. If the launch was more staggered, we'd see that demand more visible in the post-holiday months.


First January - First May:


PS2 (January 2001 - May 2001): 1.6 million

Wii (January 2007 - May 2007): 1.7 million

360 (January 2006 - May 2006): 1.1 million

PS4 (January 2014 - May 2014): 1.3 million


This figure would undoubtedly be higher if it wasn't for the massive 2 million consoles sold at launch. And the Wii hit 259K in March 2007 and the PS2 was <200K in November 2000 and 233K in February 2001. They did have lows that approached Sony's slightly sub-200K figures despite maintaining generally higher monthly averages.

HOWEVER, as for future trajectory, I do agree that PS4 seems to be cooling off faster than the PS2 or the Wii.

But I'd give it more time before coming to a definitive conclusion. Like through the first Holiday season to see if PS4 rebounds to be more in line with PS2 and Wii. There was a nice positive effect from Watch_Dogs...we'll see if Destiny amps it up even more after the summer lull.

I'm totally stretching the narrative like a Stretch Armstrong doll.

I just don't see how this fall and winter season is going to change that narrative with the limited focus both consoles have. I may be very wrong though. I am very wrong... alot!

I was one of the peeps thinking NSMBU would have WiiU sitting at 20 million units by the time PS4/One launched. After it cratered so badly I started trying to come up with ways that the market would see little to no contraction from the prior generation culminating in my end of the gen prediction of 160+ million unit sales for PS4 and 80 million units for One with U at 20...

Now I'm kind of having a hard time seeing WiiU at 15 mill, One at 50, and PS4 passing 100.

 

[EventHorizon]

I am not so sure why total console sales are as important as people try to make them out to be. Last gen I owned both a 360 and PS3 (actually I ended up owning multiple of each), but I only ever bought one copy of a game. The 360 was my main and it got the lion share of my multiplatform games.

Now I only have a PS4, and probably won't get an XB1. I will still only ever by one copy of multiplatform games, but this time it'll be on my PS4. Yes that kinda sucks for Microsoft but the likes of EA and Activision aren't affected one bit. The same applies to Nintendo. I owned a Wii but I don't plan on getting a Wii U.

Just by looking at my purchasing you'd think there was a huge contraction in the market. In reality only Microsoft and Nintendo would feel the pinch. Everybody else is unaffected. I realize that the numbers aren't as clear cut as this, but I mention it to point out that hardware and software aren't so tightly coupled.

 

[Aquamarine]

No way Microsoft sold 83.7 million Xbox 360. What was the fail rate again? like 24%(game informer saying it was higher 54.2) I say the right number is around 68-73 million.

They sold 83.7 million Xbox 360 consoles to retailers. That's what matters to Microsoft at the end of the day.

If Microsoft replaces a broken console under warranty, it doesn't magically count as another sale to a retailer. In fact, it's a liability to the company.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Kinectless SKU is the best thing they could have done.

Not sure about that. It's essentially a less powerful PS4 with 95% of the same games at the same price. Maybe $350 would of worked better as it would be cheaper than PS4, but it's probably not realistic. At least the Kinect gave it some features the PS4 didn't have. I think if Kinect was left in for $400, it could of did more damage.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Hm, I don't know.
Still have a problem calling it a "price drop" :/

I don't know, that's basically what it is. Kinect doesn't mean anything to most people.

 

[DarthWalden]

Not sure about that. It's essentially a less powerful PS4 with 95% of the same games at the same price. Maybe $350 would of worked better as it would be cheaper than PS4, but it's probably not realistic. At least the Kinect gave it some features the PS4 didn't have. I think if Kinect was left in for $400, it could of did more damage.

That's the next step my freind...

This first step was a way to generate interest without effecting the bottom line... Seems to have worked somewhat..

 

[Lemondish]

I'm totally stretching the narrative like a Stretch Armstrong doll.

I just don't see how this fall and winter season is going to change that narrative with the limited focus both consoles have. I may be very wrong though. I am very wrong... alot!

I was one of the peeps thinking NSMBU would have WiiU sitting at 20 million units by the time PS4/One launched. After it cratered so badly I started trying to come up with ways that the market would see little to no contraction from the prior generation culminating in my end of the gen prediction of 160+ million unit sales for PS4 and 80 million units for One with U at 20...

Now I'm kind of having a hard time seeing WiiU at 15 mill, One at 50, and PS4 passing 100.

Solid logic. Overestimate one way? Just overcorrect to the opposite extreme. Works every time sometimes.

 

[Game Guru]

Yep.

And PS4 is the lowest selling market leading console on a monthly basis in two generations. Barring both it and One's stellar launches neither is making up the difference of Wii and PS2. Both have had really high starts though which is masking the collapse both have seen since.

I'm going to give my theory on why PS4 might not be doing as well as the PS2... The PS2 was just as much a "right place, right time" boom as the Wii was because it was the first affordable DVD player during the DVD boom. It is possible people bought a PS2 primarily to play DVDs and that its use as a gaming device was merely a bonus feature. It is possible that consoles, because of the PS2's ability to play DVDs and the Wii's unique motion controls bringing gaming to the masses, have had an unnatural boom period and now are returning back to the levels of the sixth generation that the PS1, N64, and Saturn had achieved.

 

[Lemondish]

I don't know, that's basically what it is. Kinect doesn't mean anything to most people.

What I find most hilarious about this new SKU is the Aaron Paul commercials. He's showing off all the awesome Kinect voice integration before the scene cuts to giant text essentially screaming 'XBOX ONE NOW $399!'.

Except the $399 SKU can't do any of what the commercial shows, right?

 

[Salex_]

It seems like there's a big focus on the almost certain overall hardware sales decrease due to the Wii > Wii U transition. Did the audience that the Wii attracted actually buy other games besides the Wii series?

Does anyone know how the software sales of the PS4/X1/Wii U are doing compared to last generation?

Also, when determining the health of the market, shouldn't we primary look at the software sales? There's no way the PS4/X1 are going to make up for the Wii U's drop from the Wii unless VR sells a ton of consoles. That appears to be pretty much the only way to bring back that "Wii audience".

 

[Garrett 2U]

Cool
I guess a good chunk of people were interested in a Kinect-free bundle

 

[Glorified G]

I'm totally stretching the narrative like a Stretch Armstrong doll.

I just don't see how this fall and winter season is going to change that narrative with the limited focus both consoles have. I may be very wrong though. I am very wrong... alot!

I was one of the peeps thinking NSMBU would have WiiU sitting at 20 million units by the time PS4/One launched. After it cratered so badly I started trying to come up with ways that the market would see little to no contraction from the prior generation culminating in my end of the gen prediction of 160+ million unit sales for PS4 and 80 million units for One with U at 20...

Now I'm kind of having a hard time seeing WiiU at 15 mill, One at 50, and PS4 passing 100.

There is more to the market that just simply hardware sales. Third parties ignored the Wii and outside of Nintendo's own IP's all the big games last gen released on PS360. It's the same thing this gen. All the big third party games are releasing PS4/XB1.

The main difference is that Nintendo will not sell 20 million NSMB or Mario Kart's. Nintendo's position in the industry is contradicting, not necessarily the market. New IP's like AssCreed, Arkham, Mass Effect didn't need Nintendo to succeed. What NSMB did or didn't do for Wii U is irrelevant on how successful Destiny will be. Just like how Wii Sports success had no impact on GTA or RDR.

 

[GD71]

More comments on PS4 superiority.

Who cares? Why do you guys always have to jump into xbox threads to boast about PS4? The thread had nothing to do with PS4. XB1 selling more than previous month? Great, hopefully that means more investment in games for it. As someone who owns both consoles that makes me happy.

Clearly the XB1 is healthy. Does it matter if it sells less than PS4, iPad, or Milk? No. Unless you are a fanboy of course?

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Clearly the XB1 is healthy. Does it matter if it sells less than PS4, iPad, or Milk? No. Unless you are a fanboy of course?

IS the Xbone healthy?

 

[GobFather]

Cool
I guess a good chunk of people were interested in a Kinect-free bundle

this shouldn't be a surprise. I'm glad MS got over it and did this instead of keeping it for the sake of "Kinect" ecosystem.

 

[graywolf323]

Clearly the XB1 is healthy.

nothing all that clear about it really

 

[FaultTolerance]

More comments on PS4 superiority.

Who cares? Why do you guys always have to jump into xbox threads to boast about PS4? The thread had nothing to do with PS4. XB1 selling more than previous month? Great, hopefully that means more investment in games for it. As someone who owns both consoles that makes me happy.

Clearly the XB1 is healthy. Does it matter if it sells less than PS4, iPad, or Milk? No. Unless you are a fanboy of course?

Word of advice, you shouldn't use the 'F' word around here. People don't tend to like it and it's not fodder for healthy discussion.

 

[Hoo-doo]

More comments on PS4 superiority.

Who cares? Why do you guys always have to jump into xbox threads to boast about PS4? The thread had nothing to do with PS4. XB1 selling more than previous month? Great, hopefully that means more investment in games for it. As someone who owns both consoles that makes me happy.

Clearly the XB1 is healthy. Does it matter if it sells less than PS4, iPad, or Milk? No. Unless you are a fanboy of course?

What the fuck are you talking about. This is a sales thread, no-one is "boasting" about PS4, but it's the measuring stick we have.
If a 100$ pricedrop only manages to double a terrible month of may sales, then it's really a bit early to say it's healthy. What if it drops back down to sub-100k next month?

Everyone expected a bump this month because basically all of may's sales got moved to june. They broadcasted the pricedrop a month in advance.
If you're this sensitive about sales speculation maybe these threads aren't for you.

 

[Apt101]

PC gaming revenue is now #1 right? So does anyone think that Steam and their Summer Sales are stating exacerbate the console summer drought?

 

[David___]

More comments on PS4 superiority.

Who cares? Why do you guys always have to jump into xbox threads to boast about PS4? The thread had nothing to do with PS4. XB1 selling more than previous month? Great, hopefully that means more investment in games for it. As someone who owns both consoles that makes me happy.

Clearly the XB1 is healthy. Does it matter if it sells less than PS4, iPad, or Milk? No. Unless you are a fanboy of course?

This just in, sales thread is obviously going to talk about all platforms sooner or later. Can you also quote the people who are supposedly boasting about the PS4's superiority?

IS the Xbone healthy?

Its a perception challenge.

 

[stryke]

More comments on PS4 superiority.

Who cares? Why do you guys always have to jump into xbox threads to boast about PS4? The thread had nothing to do with PS4. XB1 selling more than previous month? Great, hopefully that means more investment in games for it. As someone who owns both consoles that makes me happy.

Clearly the XB1 is healthy. Does it matter if it sells less than PS4, iPad, or Milk? No. Unless you are a fanboy of course?

Because sales without context is worthless and context involves comparison with other console sales.

But maybe you're too sensitive to realize that.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

I'm going to give my theory on why PS4 might not be doing as well as the PS2... The PS2 was just as much a "right place, right time" boom as the Wii was because it was the first affordable DVD player during the DVD boom. It is possible people bought a PS2 primarily to play DVDs and that its use as a gaming device was merely a bonus feature. It is possible that consoles, because of the PS2's ability to play DVDs and the Wii's unique motion controls bringing gaming to the masses, have had an unnatural boom period and now are returning back to the levels of the sixth generation that the PS1, N64, and Saturn had achieved.

But hang on, hasn't the PS4 sold more than the PS2 did in the same timeframe? You can argue that's because of supply constraints on the PS2, but I think it's a bit hasty to say that the PS4 isn't doing as well.

 

[Biker19]

PC gaming revenue is now #1 right? So does anyone think that Steam and their Summer Sales are stating exacerbate the console summer drought?

Summer has always been the weakest season for consoles, especially in terms of bigger game releases.

jres80 explains how each season works for games:

Link.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

More comments on PS4 superiority.

Who cares? Why do you guys always have to jump into xbox threads to boast about PS4? The thread had nothing to do with PS4. XB1 selling more than previous month? Great, hopefully that means more investment in games for it. As someone who owns both consoles that makes me happy.

Clearly the XB1 is healthy. Does it matter if it sells less than PS4, iPad, or Milk? No. Unless you are a fanboy of course?

I don't think you have a firm grasp on what sales threads are all about in NeoGAF yet. So it would probably be wiser for you to sit back and lurk a while before commenting. Especially if you're idea of commenting is passive-aggression and name-calling.

Edit: never mind. Too late for you.

 

[SRTtoZ]

It sucks for them but its the slap in the face MS needed to get their asses in gear. I'll be on board when you release an ORANGE Sunset Overdrive Xbone bundled with the game for $399. DO EEEET!