Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 12: Gwah, hah. Welcome to the Bowser's game.
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
If we're doing move speculation; before he's officially disconfirmed, I thought I might throw together a particularly fanwanky Isaac moveset. I apologise for the self-indulgence.
But I've also put together a more realistic moveset which will accurately represent Isaac's true potential in Smash Bros.
Which is the default, and which is the alt? It's a mystery.
NORMALS
All of the normal moves would be physical attacks with either the Mighty Axe, Assassin's Blade or Sol Blade; which represent the Longsword, Axe and Light Sword weapon classes, the three which Isaac can use in both games. The weapons' 'unleash' attacks (essentially a combination of limit breaks and critical hits) are used for tilts.
- Neutral combo: Basic sword slashes which utilise the Sol Blade. As a finisher, Isaac jumps a short distance and slashes downward.
- Dash attack: Two strikes with the Mighty Axe, the first horizontal and the second diagonal. Decent knockback.
- Floor attack: A diagonal spin with the Assassin's Blade.
- Neutral aerial: A quick spin with the Assassin's Blade, which has relatively little knockback due to its high speed and range.
- Forward aerial: A powerful horizontal slash with the Sol Blade, not much verticality.
- Up aerial: A powerful strike with the Mighty Axe, with a fairly short range.
- Down aerial: Downward arc with Mighty Axe, high power and low range.
- Back aerial: Half-circle with the Assassin's Blade.
TILTS
- Up Tilt: Megiddo - Raising the Sol Blade upwards, a large sphere of solar energy moves across the blade before dissipating a short distance from the tip. Deals the greatest damage just before it leaves the blade.
- Side Tilt: Heat Smash - An explosive charge with the Mighty Axe. It cannot be angled.
- Down Tilt: Mortal Danger - Using the Assassin's Blade, Isaac performs a small downward slash which is echoed by a reaper apparition. The power of both blades is equal, but hitting with Isaac's blade as opposed to the reaper's will afford greater knockback.
SMASH ATTACKS
These are taken from the original game's psynergy (magic) attacks - aside from Move, all are primarily used in the original game's battle scenes.
- Up Smash: Thorn Psynergy - Thorned vines grow upwards; despite the move's relatively small area of effect, its multiple hits and high damage make it relatively effective. Charging this move will also determine whether the visual appearance of the thorns is that of Growth, Briar or Nettle.
- Side Smash: Move - Similar to its Brawl incarnation, except with understandably shorter range, and a size closer to that of Isaac's, as in the original game. Although it now does a small amount of damage, the main feature of the move is its enormous knockback.
- Down Smash: Ragnarok - A summoned sword impacts the ground immediately to the front of Isaac. The horizontal breadth of the flames created on impact will increase greatly upon being charged.
THROWS
All of the throw moves are based on ingame 'utility psynergy', which are often used to solve puzzles and affect objects on the field map. Instead of a tether or standard grab, Isaac utilises the "lift" psynergy, where two large hands similar to those used in Move close in from both sides, squeezing the opponent when the pummel command is used. Despite its large area of effect, this is probably one of the slowest grabs.
- Up Throw: Lift - The summoned hands utilised for the grab slowly raise the opponent vertically, inflicting damage periodically until they dissipate.
- Forward Throw: Force - A high-pressure bolt of energy smacks the opponent out of the hands' grip, dealing a single damaging blow.
- Back Throw: Whirlwind - A tornado carries the opponent out of the grab. It also inflicts periodic damage, as with the Up Throw, but it lasts for a far shorter period.
- Down Throw: Frost The hands drop the opponent, and Isaac freezes them to the ground. This is the most damaging of the four throws, but it has virtually no knockback.
SPECIALS
The gimmick to Isaac's special attacks is that each has two states - "Set" and "Standby", which alternate each time the move is used - the "set" form using a djinni and being generally quicker, and the "standby" form using a summon and being generally more powerful. As the moves have differing properties beyond their broadly similar role, it's essential to remember what states your current specials are in.
- Up Special: Hail & Neptune: The Djinni Hail appears and propels Isaac upwards on a pillar of ice. While most of the move's damage and knockback originates from the actual impact, proximity to the ice pillar causes minor damage, as with the Ice Climbers' final smash. The summon Neptune will use rising water to move Isaac upwards while firing a laser, but despite its greater vertical range and area of effect, the summon variation is considerably slower and weaker.
- Side Special: Smog & Procne: The Djinni Smog appears and produces a large cloud of smoke with a slow forward trajectory. While it can still damage opponents after travelling, those damaged by the initial casting will be trapped. Procne is a quicker and more direct move, after being summoned, they will flap their wings once for minor knockback before launching a large, swift tornado.
- Neutral Special: Torch & Tiamat: The Djinni Torch appears and launches pillars of flame from above Isaac. This move can be charged, but while the damage and knockback of the flames are set, they can become larger and more numerous. In the neutral special's summon form, Tiamat appears behind Isaac and fires a large horizontal jet of flame.
- Down Special: Ground & Ramses: - The Djinni Ground appears, and casts energy spheres immediately in front of Isaac. While this move does little in the way of damage, it will inflict the 'stunned' state on an opponent, as with Mewtwo's Disable; offering an opporunity to follow up with Isaac's slow but devastating grabs and throws. For the summon variation, Ramses appears in the background and launches his fists into the ground vertically. Those hit are forced into the 'buried' state if on the ground.
FINAL SMASH
- Iris: The goddess appears in a cloud of feathers, and draws the stage into the sun. Any opponents who are within the area of effect receive massive damage and knockback, as is typical, but Isaac's damage percentage will reduce while in contact with the sun.
TAUNTS
- Up Taunt:
The 'angry' emotion bubble appears over Isaac's head as he extends the Sol Blade horizontally, coat or cape flapping.
- Side Taunt:
The 'dismayed' emotion bubble appears over Isaac's head as the Hail, Smog, Torch and Ground djinn swarm around him, knocking him to the ground.
- Down Taunt:
The 'happy' emotion bubble appears over Isaac's head as he performs his 'summon' animation in a flash of golden light, surrounded by the four floating elemental stars.
But I've also put together a more realistic moveset which will accurately represent Isaac's true potential in Smash Bros.
OmegaSmash
Member
One of them has to be the SA1 Light Speed Attack.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I'll be happy if toon links gets custom moves that allow him to play more like young link.
Also an ocarina of time 3d alt costume for toon link that actually makes him young link would be appreciated
Also an ocarina of time 3d alt costume for toon link that actually makes him young link would be appreciated
Shadow Hog
Member
Clean's been posted, so whatever
The shit was being forced to play as them in games where they added nothing new, other than extreme amounts of padding (like Heroes, which had set up the four different teams as a difficulty select, but then decided you had to play as all four to see the ending anyway), or had the worst-thought-out gameplay mechanics and were forced upon you when you thought you'd chosen another character entirely (like 2K6, where you could wind up playing as Silver in Sonic's story mode despite Silver having his own entry on the character select screen - if I'd wanted to play as Silver, why would I pick Sonic instead?).
I get that they're trying to do the S3&K thing, but the character differences there were significantly more meaningful, often opening up entirely different parts of each level. That's an aspect they've completely failed to realize since, making these efforts to pay token tribute to the design meaningless at best, awful game design at worst.
I never really thought Sonic's friends were really that shitty anyway. Personality-wise, it's seriously overblown; only a few are really that shitty. Charmy, Silver, Heroes-onward Shadow (his story ended in SA2, he should've stayed dead)... There's also Big, but he's awesome in an ironic way, so he doesn't count.
The shit was being forced to play as them in games where they added nothing new, other than extreme amounts of padding (like Heroes, which had set up the four different teams as a difficulty select, but then decided you had to play as all four to see the ending anyway), or had the worst-thought-out gameplay mechanics and were forced upon you when you thought you'd chosen another character entirely (like 2K6, where you could wind up playing as Silver in Sonic's story mode despite Silver having his own entry on the character select screen - if I'd wanted to play as Silver, why would I pick Sonic instead?).
I get that they're trying to do the S3&K thing, but the character differences there were significantly more meaningful, often opening up entirely different parts of each level. That's an aspect they've completely failed to realize since, making these efforts to pay token tribute to the design meaningless at best, awful game design at worst.
I'd love for Sonic to have a full set of elemental shield specials based on Sonic 3. Up B would be a screw attack-like third jump with the electric shield, side B would be a forward charge with the fire shield, and down B would be a bubble bounce. And maybe neutral B could be the brief invincibility flash
you get when pressing jump in the air without a shield.
Great to see some of Mega Man's alt specials. I think I'm going to love all the customization.
or yet another counter
Great to see some of Mega Man's alt specials. I think I'm going to love all the customization.
Heck yeah, totally agree. It's amazing how many 'similar' moves mega man has. He has so many 'shield' items, so many 'throwing' items, so many 'bomb' items, so it's really neat to make his custom moves.
Since that's the case, I wonder if the custom moves mechanic was partly inspired by Megaman's inclusion?
OmegaSmash
Member
I actually forgot about Sonic Battle, actually. Yeah I could see Sonic's custom moves bring Sonic Drive/Sonic Storm and Sonic Meteor (multihitting downward bounce).
I always thought that Sonic Battle was a decent enough game. Super repetitive, but a sequel could've improved it quite a bit.
Nah
Yeah. It's very possible. Also, I just woke up, so I don't know why I typed 'items'. Sigh.
Nah
They're both the same, in terms of having a ridiculously large moveset to pull from. It's hard to tell unless we know which of the two was designed first (probably palutena, in sakurai's mind at least).
A lot of people have really boring custom moves that can't be shown off in a picture of the day, like... donkey kong... because they LOOK identical to a normal special move.
OmegaSmash
Member
Saving some material for the Famitsu articles? Speaking of which, what's the most recent one? I remember there being something about him talking about the game's speed, but nothing really came from that.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I don't get why sakurai bothered to mention Miis and Palutena were special with custom moves, as Beat is way different from his normal up special. Not much different than the sword Mii's neutral special customization, which is just variants of throwing items.
Talking about Storm Punch? I think there's a lot to discuss there in terms of custom vs. defaults.
I mean, his default punch is basically just a powerful finisher move but the storm punch looks like an incredibly useful tool for keeping people off-stage as a character with the most meteor attacks in the game that we know off so far.
At a first glance, DK has enough finisher moves already that it seems like the Storm Punch is a straight upgrade, but what if the default punch now has shield-breaker properties? I mean, I don't recall anyone actually getting a chance to fully charge a punch and hit a characters shield in the footage we've had so far.
DK with a shield-breaker donkey punch could be amazing.
Unless you meant the slow version of the headbutt that has super armour, which yeah, that isn't much to talk about, but I still find it more interesting than the three piece laser thing.
But surely out of all the characters that we haven't seen a single customisable yet, there must be a lot there worth talking about.
Beat can be done without changing much, honestly, it doesn't even change megaman's animations and it only alters his movement properties in slight ways if it works how we all think it will.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Well of course Storm Punch is awesome
MaverickHunterAsh
Member
That's pretty much what I'm thinking, yeah.
At least a Tails recovery will be really cool to see.I think Tails will definitely happen, but I'd love to see custom specials based on his shield attacks (fire, water, lightning) from Sonic 3, not to mention the Insta-Shield...
You'd think, right?
Yeah, that's exactly what makes coming up with alternate specials for Mega Man so much fun! He has a lot of similar but still slightly different weapons... and that extends to the games the weapons all come from, too; the differences don't have to be made up for Smash. For example, the Water Shield in MM 10 does actually work somewhat differently from shield weapons in other games. (This isn't true in every case, of course. The Skull Barrier and Plant Barrier might as well be the exact same move with different graphics, for example.
)That's what I was talking about. Identical moves that are faster/slower and/or with different properties that don't have any visual flair (like ice/fire/electricity).
That and link's lightning boomerang is kinda boring, too. I don't blame them for not showing off all custom moves.
Where was this shown?
OmegaSmash
Member
Uh, when was this? I don't remember seeing that.
E3 direct. Let me find footage. I made a gif.
Here:
Maybe lightning boomerang is a misnomer. More like sparkly. I say lightning because it likely has electrical properties.
Red Arremer
Member
You know, I might catch a lot of flak for this, but beyond the weird visual design, and the voice actor, I thought conceptually, Silver was one of the coolest additions to the Sonic franchise.
Personality-wise, I don't think he's shitty. Yes, he's young and eager, but he does develop throughout the game. Sonic 06 is more Silver the Hedgehog than anything, because he actually gets some proper character development, which sadly for the most part is drowned out by the shitfest that is the rest of the story.
And everything else about him? I think the idea is great. Time traveler from the future that tries to prevent a dystopian future from happening. Plus telekinetic powers. I always had a soft spot for psionic-based characters, so Silver is no exception to the rule. Additionally, unlike any other hedgehog/echidna character, Silver is not fast. He's regular speed, but can use his levitation and telekinesis abilities to reach stuff. I think this is really cool. Plus, using the sphere glitch with him is hilarious. I'm definitely gonna roll (pun intended) with the Silver alt color for Sonic in Smash 4, whenever I do play him.
I also like Omega, and at least Rouge's concept beyond the tits. I think those characters added a lot of flavor to the series.
I also like Vector, but that's cause I love crocodiles.
OmegaSmash
Member
Frankly, Silver's the best in the Archie comics. Guy's a huge dork, messes up constantly, but tries his best to fix it and can wreck shit if he tries (see his Sonic Universe arc in the alternate future).
Red Arremer
Member
I haven't read a lot of the Archie comics, but I do remember an arc with Silver in it, and he actually was pretty cool in it.
The Archie comics in general tend to make characters a lot cooler than they are in the games lol.
Shadow Hog
Member
Y'know, I can totally respect that. He does have a fair bit going for him... he just had a pretty bad first impression (2K6 being his first game, his first moments being kinda whiny, and the boss fights against him having complete bullshit chaingrabs that can effectively instantly kill you if you so much as look at him funny... none of that does him any favors), and hasn't really been used since (because, well, he's from far in the future, of course he won't show up).
PadWarrior
Member
I want Sakurai to do a Mega Man game so bad. Beat looks lovely!
It's Link in Smash. Hope would be foolish.
That is disgusting, ugh.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Preorder cancelled.
Maybe lightning boomerang is a misnomer. More like sparkly. I say lightning because it likely has electrical properties.
Looks more like a magic boomerang than an electric one. Looks like it moves slower so maybe it's meant to be used for stage control somewhat, hard to tell though with these super powered amiibo CPUs that can hit by an attack and apparently instantly tech against the floor and use an uptilt.
Seriously, what the fuck is happening there?
Cool. Probably electric. I like to imagine it just being the faster, better boomerang though, with sparkles from LttP to indicate that. But then it would be red.
What's going on when Link gets hit there though? It looks like a dark/electric flash but I don't know what from DK would do that. And then Link acts really quickly afterward. Or is he hitting DK, maybe with an after effect from the boomerang?
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Assuming he's interested, this would be the perfect next project for him. Only question is if Capcom would approve it.
Only thing is, If sakurai made it, it would have like 50 robot masters and some ridiculous plot.
I want it.
This has me bummin'. I appreciate the effort though!
MrSaturn99
Member
just think about it
you'd have roll, auto and dr. light constantly communicating with you as you traverse stages, just because they can
and auto will constantly be going on and on about how fucking cool you are because you're MEGA MAN and then proto man will show up and he'll drop you like a sack of bricks
Lord_Byron28
Member
I suspect because most are not that interesting to discuss. Originally when I suggested custom moves I had hoped for things such as letting Mario use other powerups like the ice flower, tanooki suit, cat suit, the spin from SMG, etc. Toon Link could use things like Deku Leaf, Slingshot, Megaton Hammer, whip, etc. Link could use things like fire rod, ball and chain, spinner, medallions, etc. Samus could do other things like Ice, Plasma and Wave beam.
Megaman and Palutena's are exciting but its dissapointing that many other characters who have a wealth of history and powers that could be used for smash.
PadWarrior
Member
I so want this!
Magnet_Man
Member
So cool
That is the sickest, I love this picture. Smug Beat is best Beat.
The "extra stock for free" flag pic was the only thing to actually disappoint me and the only thing to make me say "that is fucking stupid" in regards to this game. And now today's has totally made up for it. Now we need the custom moves to cover MM5, 10, and maybe even MM&B and we'll have coverage across every mainline Mega Man game. I know the argument that Slide being an attack in this game is a lot like MM5's Charge Kick but the slide in this has no energy field and was referred to as "Slide" and citing MM3 as its source.
There's only one duck in Mega Man.
EDITED: Thought of the wrong pic of the day. T_T Fixed
What.
When I first saw the thread about that, I thought I was seeing something way more devious. Had me scared for a second lol.
Enjoy!
I've played most of the games represented in Smash, but there are a few I need to catch up on. I have Earthbound on Wii U's VC, but haven't played far into it yet. And I bought Rhythm Heaven recently, but haven't played it yet (though that may/may not be very relevant to Smash).
Spinosaurus
Member
lolwut?