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Phil Spencer: MS will spend money on marketing and developing Rise of the Tomb Raider

Dancovich said:
I honestly don't understand why some people are so upset about this deal. It's obvious MS is doing it to sell more consoles and it's obvious the deal is also good for SE or else they wouldn't agree to it.

So how this deal affect anyone who doesn't have a Xbox One and doesn't intend to buy one?

We know for sure (Phill said it himself) that the first time the game comes out it's going to be only for Xbox consoles. So the game will come to other platforms at a later time or not at all.

How does it affect you? The given information is enough to know you WILL have to wait or you WILL have to buy an X1 to play it right away.

Is the game so good you're willing to buy a X1 to play it? If yes then after 6 months if no info on a PS4/PC version comes out just buy a X1. If no then after 6 months just give up on the game, you'll probably have forgotten it by then. If it eventually comes out then buy what will probably be the GOTY edition cheaper.

Also why is it important for us to know how MS is helping SE? Will it change the status of the other versions?

In the end I don't think MS is hiding any information important to us gamers. The only people who should be upset about a business decision are businesman afected in some way by the deal.
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It was a multi-plat game (which means you don't have to buy a 400€/$ XBO you don't want to play it) . When the deals came out, it wasn't anymore. You have your answer.

Microsoft tried to lie, people didn't bought their BS, now the only questions are 1) will the game be as great as promised ? 2) will it come to PS4 or only PC ?
 
serves them right for trying to be fucking sneaky about it.


yeah they know it will created headlines and they did it as a closer to their gamescom presser. they know exactly what they're doing.

"now people think tomb raider will only come to xbox! now that's a first step!"

freaking hate knowingly misleading people. then clarifying it during some interview on some website that gets a couple thousand hits.

they tried too hard to not say console exclusive debut or timed exclusive or some other term that is easily understood. instead they go "exclusive to xbox on holiday 2015" and when further pressed they went, "it is just as we said it."


and people wonder why so many shit on them.
 
figadapaura said:
But Sony didn't actively try to withhold this information. And why would they announce a PC version during their conference anyway? They worded it perfectly fine given the context.
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The thing is that right after the announcement, all the focus was on the PS4 version; rightfully so because that was the focus of the reveal and it was on their stage. No talk about other platforms at the time (even though it was heavily implied) and months later some PC talk came out from more inquisitive journalists. So there was a buffer where we were left in the dark, even though we guessed that it was coming to other platforms.

You could say that’s a little murky territory, but most gamers can pick up that it will likely show up on other platforms.
 
shacklesmcgee said:
They are serious, they're just not right...
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Crimson_Gold said:
People will stretch to make that point. Goal posts move, facts become irrelevant, and logic goes out of the window when console wars are involved
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Yup lol
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StrongBlackVine said:
Yeah. They are right and you are wrong.
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Yes, clearly... :P
 
Dancovich said:
I honestly don't understand why some people are so upset about this deal. It's obvious MS is doing it to sell more consoles and it's obvious the deal is also good for SE or else they wouldn't agree to it.

So how this deal affect anyone who doesn't have a Xbox One and doesn't intend to buy one?
.
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Because the Playstation and PC have a deep history with a Tomb Raider. Right from day dot in 1996 they have received each release, and it is where the majority of the fan community have grown. To then feel like that history is ending, and they will have to move on and look elsewhere does not come easy. Many feel a sense of betrayal.

Furthermore those who saw that the definitive edition of the latest game, looked best and performed best on ps4, when compared to the xbone jumped in there and got it. So they have assumed that not only will they get the next game in the series on ps4, but it will also perform/look better there too when compared to the xbone version. Now again they are basically told 'yeah, you jumped into the ps4 to get the best version, thanks for that, but sorry that's all you'll be getting apart from the forthcoming Lara croft and the tomb of Osiris'.
 
TheOddOne said:
The thing is that right after the announcement, all the focus was on the PS4 version; rightfully so because that was the focus of the reveal and it was on their stage. No talk about other platforms at the time (even though it was heavily implied) and months later some PC talk came out from more inquisitive journalists. So there was a buffer where we were left in the dark, even though we guessed that it was coming to other platforms.

You could say that’s a little murky territory, but most gamers can pick up that it will likely show up on other platforms.
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the thing about no man's sky is that it can only come to one platform at a time, given the size of the studio.

and they needed to be on that stage. it was either ps4 or pc, and they chose wisely because pc does not have an e3 stage being watched by 2 million people, and the game releasing on steam will be buried with the other indie games that come to steam every day. they needed exposure more than anything and it was arguably one of the biggest games to come out of e3, even bigger than the aaa games.

very different scenario with tomb raider.
 
harSon said:
Yeah, I'm sure the developer refused to outright confirm the PC version's existence out of the kindness of his heart.
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What are you on about?

that nice guy who designs NMS said:
"If I'm honest, we're taking on quite a lot at the moment. We're definitely coming to the PS4. I would like to come to PC. Whether that arrives the same day—we're a small team!"
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They're being paid in advance by Sony to put out the console version, no one is paying them in advance to put out the PC version so it obviously takes a back seat. They'd like to get it out on the same day, because they're not contractually obliged to delay it, but they're a small team.
 
If you believe this game is NOT being actively developed across all major platforms and will be artificially delayed to suite contractual obligations, then you are the very definition of naivety.

EDIT: Auto correct can suck my...
 
TheOddOne said:
The thing is that right after the announcement, all the focus was on the PS4 version; rightfully so because that was the focus of the reveal and it was on their stage. No talk about other platforms at the time (even though it was heavily implied) and months later some PC talk came out from more inquisitive journalists. So there was a buffer where we were left in the dark, even though we guessed that it was coming to other platforms.

You could say that’s a little murky territory, but most gamers can pick up that it will likely show up on other platforms.
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Eh, I'm sure they were happy with the publicity it got them, but I don't think they really deceived anyone. It isn't up to Sony to talk about other platforms either. I'm not really up to speed on all the news after the announcement, so did the devs give a lot of non-answers for a couple of months or were they just not asked?
 
Paco said:
This is a really thoughtful post, just one thing. Spencer actually did say the deal had a duration, which means it's a timed exclusive. It was very plainly put a few days ago. The problem is getting news from GAF. They tend to leave out details, sometimes really important ones because they typically fail to read past the first few sentences, or they are selectively hunting for information to fit their narrative.

Here it is from Spencer himself:

"I have Tomb Raider shipping next holiday exclusively on Xbox. It is Xbox 360 and Xbox One. I'm not trying to fake anybody out in terms of where this thing is. What they do with the franchise in the long run is not mine. I don't control it. So all I can talk about is the deal I have. I don't know where else Tomb Raider goes."

Is there a time limit on the exclusivity period?

"Yes, the deal has a duration. I didn't buy it. I don't own the franchise."
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It's unfortunate, but there are several problems with GAF in the types of members it has. We have the console warriors which will jump at any chance to fuel the fire even at the cost of the truth, the "simpletons," as I like to call them who read a headline and react, and then there are those who refuse to be reasonable and move the goal post to continue finding something to justify why they flew off the handle. Each of those types of members were out in full force on this and made a mess.



Spencer very plainly said the deal has a duration and it's up to SE what they do with after the fact. There's really no way he could have been more direct about answering that question.
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There is nothing vague about his statement there.
 
woen said:
It was a multi-plat game (which means you don't have to buy a 400€/$ XBO you don't want to play it) . When the deals came out, it wasn't anymore. You have your answer.
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SO you're pissed at MICROSOFT for offering a good deal to SE? Doesn't it make more sense to be pissed at Square Enix for ACCEPTING the deal? Is not like they where forced to accept it. Maybe be angry at Sony for not offering a better deal, maybe they tought the franchise didn't deserve such a deal.

woen said:
Microsoft tried to lie, people didn't bought their BS
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What exactly was the lie?

MS don't KNOW if it will come out for other platforms. When the deal is done maybe Square will not bother releasing another version. It's not MS job to say what will happen with the game after the timed exclusivity ends. That's exactly what Phill Spencer meant and his wording couldn't be more clear.

Imagine this scenario: The exclusivity is for only a year. 12 months after release SE decides not to release another version. Sudenly the timed exclusivity became full exclusivity and MS didn't have a single thing to do with it.

woen said:
now the only questions are 1) will the game be as great as promised ? 2) will it come to PS4 or only PC ?
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And we'll have both questiong answered in about 6 to 12 months. That's why I don't understand what people find so cryptic, basically it's comming first for Xbox and if you're not willing to buy one then wait.

Unless you don't mind buying another console for this game. In this case I imagine you've been thinking about it for some time and plan on playing other games on the X1 because I can't imagine someone who would NEVER buy a X1 would change his mind for this game alone.
 
DoubleTake said:
It is possible to preserve the sanctity of your timed exclusive deal without using wording that attempts to confuse the consumer into believing the game is fully exclusive.

Which sounds more straightforward to you?

RotR will release exclusively on Xbox in 2015.

or.

This game will have its console debut on Ps4.

Please Choose wisely.
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They're two sides of the same deceptive coin. When a title is truly exclusive, it is clearly labeled as such. There's no added verbiage, which isn't the case with "Holiday 2015, Exclusively on Xbox." We've seen these companies when they announce a true exclusive. It's strong language that cannot be mistaken for anything but exclusivity. "The only place you'll be able to play X is on Y." There's a reason why the statement was called out instantly.

As for the latter, it basically tells us that it's debuting on Playstation 4 with an X day/month/year cushion. We have no idea how long its exclusive for. It can be a few days, or it can be a year. They want that question to sit in the back of your mind, and they want it to ultimately sway your decision.
 
EmptySpace said:
the thing about no man's sky is that it can only come to one platform at a time, given the size of the studio.

and they needed to be on that stage. it was either ps4 or pc, and they chose wisely because pc does not have an e3 stage being watched by 2 million people, and the game releasing on steam will be buried with the other indie games that come to steam every day. they needed exposure more than anything and it was arguably one of the biggest games to come out of e3, even bigger than the aaa games.

very different scenario with tomb raider.
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I understand that aspect and it absolutely understandable, but that is besides the point. It’s more about the acknowledgements right after their unveil that there will be a PC version coming soon, but we got that confirmation months later (with the statement that they were a small studio and can only focus on one version).

figadapaura said:
Eh, I'm sure they were happy with the publicity it got them, but I don't think they really deceived anyone. It isn't up to Sony to talk about other platforms either. I'm not really up to speed on all the news after the announcement, so did the devs give a lot of non-answers for a couple of months or were they just not asked?
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I don't remember anybody asking at the time. What was strange about the PC reveal, is that they went to went to a journalist to exclusivity reveal it.
 
Dancovich said:
SO you're pissed at MICROSOFT for offering a good deal to SE? Doesn't it make more sense to be pissed at Square Enix for ACCEPTING the deal? Is not like they where forced to accept it. Maybe be angry at Sony for not offering a better deal, maybe they tought the franchise didn't deserve such a deal.



What exactly was the lie?

MS don't KNOW if it will come out for other platforms. When the deal is done maybe Square will not bother releasing another version. It's not MS job to say what will happen with the game after the timed exclusivity ends. That's exactly what Phill Spencer meant and his wording couldn't be more clear.

Imagine this scenario: The exclusivity is for only a year. 12 months after release SE decides not to release another version. Sudenly the timed exclusivity became full exclusivity and MS didn't have a single thing to do with it.



And we'll have both questiong answered in about 6 to 12 months. That's why I don't understand what people find so cryptic, basically it's comming first for Xbox and if you're not willing to buy one then wait.

Unless you don't mind buying another console for this game. In this case I imagine you've been thinking about it for some time and plan on playing other games on the X1 because I can't imagine someone who would NEVER buy a X1 would change his mind for this game alone.
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It has been confirmed coming to PC/PS4 by a credible source.
 
harSon said:
They're two sides of the same deceptive coin. When a title is truly exclusive, it is clearly labeled as such. There's no added verbiage, which isn't the case with "Holiday 2015, Exclusively on Xbox." We've seen these companies when they announce a true exclusive. It's strong language that cannot be mistaken for anything but exclusivity. "The only place you'll be able to play X is on Y." There's a reason why the statement was called out instantly.

As for the latter, it basically tells us that it's debuting on Playstation 4 with an X day/month/year cushion. We have no idea how long its exclusive for. It can be a few days, or it can be a year. They want that question to sit in the back of your mind, and they want it to ultimately sway your decision.
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err. I think the different between the two statements is pretty blatant. One promotes doubt the other is crystal clear. (Yes many of us on gaf can notice these small differences in wording then pr tries to promote doubt but MS words are far more misleading that ps4 words).
 
He didn't say that Tomb Raider's exclusivity is the same as with Dead Rising. He said that they are funding it similar to the way they did Dead Rising.

He's deliberately ducking the question, but using a weaselly tactic to make it appear as though he saying something he's not.

It's a similar tactic to what Sarah Palin used before the 2012 election. She was touring the country in her bus giving speeches, and everyone assumed she was getting ready to run for the presidency. Every time she was asked, she would dodge the question but make it appear as though it's a possibility.

It's used to drum up attention and keep the message out there, without specifically addressing the actual question posed. That way you don't have to disappoint anyone with the real answer.
 
"SIMILAR to what we did with DR3", not EXACTLY what the did with DR3

Jesus Christ just give people an answer...

Can he be any more vague?
 
TheOddOne said:
I understand that aspect and it absolutely understandable, but that is besides the point. It’s more about the acknowledgements right after their unveil that there will be a PC version coming soon, but we got that confirmation months later (with the statement that they were a small studio and can only focus on one version).
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again, different scenario. what is it that you're not getting? crystal dynamics has the luxury and capacity and capability of delivering ps4 pc xbone and wii u versions on the same day.

this isn't some hypocritical nonsense that no mans sky is getting a pass but tomb raider isn't. both games are in very different circumstances. no mention of a pc version until months later is because they can't comment on something that they're not even actively working on. right now hello games is focusing on one version because right now they can only focus on one. no doubt their engine works cross platform, and most likely they'll release it elsewhere, point is no one at sony tried to mislead people by using sneaky phrases, hello games have been honest about focusing on one platform, and we all know the situation with a 12-person team so overall they had a legitimate, can't do anything about it situation.
 
We’ve started this relationship with Crystal a long time ago,” he says. “If you’ve watched our E3s, this is not the first time it’s been on our stage. So we’ve built that relationship with them over a long time. It’s a genre that fits very well in our lineup, when you think about the games that we have. I would love if we owned an IP that was as strong as Lara Croft and Tomb Raider, that we had a base in that genre, but we don’t have that right now. I’m going to invest in our first-party franchises to be great, but when an opportunity comes up like this, whether it’s putting them on stage or doing co-marketing deals or something that’s a bigger deal like this, those conversations are always going on
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Nice. This game is going to be even better.

It cant get more hate here on gaf than the previous one. Can it? lol
 
TheOddOne said:
I don't remember anybody asking at the time. What was strange about the PC reveal, is that they went to went to a journalist to exclusivity reveal it.
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Well, then it sounds like both parties were honest about the whole deal. Sure, it would have been nice for them to clarify sooner, but they must have had their reasons.

Unlike MS who were hoping this would spur people on to buy X1's.
 
The title of this thread is PR spin. They paid for timed exclusivity. Of course that means SE will put it toward development and marketing. What else were they going to do with it? They could of banked it, but maybe they opted to use it to make the game better. Also, MS will market it as exclusive... so of course they are paying for marketing.
 
Metalingus5150 said:
Square confirmed that it's a timed exclusive by saying "Look at what Phil Spencer said"
Real classy.
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Except that wasn't even what Phil Spencer said.

"Of course we have a duration, we don't own the IP, not up to me" implies franchise exclusivity, and Square used that as a bullet to outright refers otherwise.

Real classy indeed.
 
Reading this I feel like it will be a Titanfall 2.0 situation where down the line the game becomes permanently locked away from PS4. We don't know how far they are in development or how they are handling these platforms, so work on the PS4/PS3 could theoretically not exist.

I don't see how any funding from Microsoft directly would allow for a port. Mass Effect is possibly the only exception to make the transition, and that was at the very end of the generation and I don't believe Microsoft put in money for development.

It will definitely see a PC release.

In the end though, I can't take this all with a grain of salt. As far as development goes, it could just be DLC or exclusive content. If sources are saying PS4/PS3 are in the pipe, then I'll hold on to that until an actual announcement is made.
 
ArkkAngel007 said:
Reading this I feel like it will be a Titanfall 2.0 situation where down the line the game becomes permanently locked away from PS4. We don't know how far they are in development or how they are handling these platforms, so work on the PS4/PS3 could theoretically not exist.

I don't see how any funding from Microsoft directly would allow for a port. Mass Effect is possibly the only exception to make the transition, and that was at the very end of the generation and I don't believe Microsoft put in money for development.

It will definitely see a PC release.

In the end though, I can't take this all with a grain of salt. As far as development goes, it could just be DLC or exclusive content. If sources are saying PS4/PS3 are in the pipe, then I'll hold on to that until an actual announcement is made.
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Spencer is a spin master. Crystal Dynamics said it is a timed exclusive. Shinobi said it will be on PS4.

Permanent exclusivity is franchise suicide if this timed deal isn't already...
 
I really don't understand why people expect complete transparency about this kind of deal. Obviously, it's not in MIcrosoft's best interest to reveal the specifics of the duration. They're not giving Square Enix tens of millions of dollars just to subsequently have it be immediately released "but don't worry PC/PS4 fans, if you don't want to buy an Xbox One, just wait three-six months for the superior port."

If you just hate money-hatting timed exclusives, then so be it. But these arguments about hating the lack of transparency are non-sensical. A lack of specificity about the duration of the exclusivity window and whether later ports are coming at all is practically necessary to make a timed-exclusive worth it.
 
Aroll said:
Stuff juniors say
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I know you're a junior so you probably havent been here long so I'll fill you in on what you missed.

The PS3 was shat all over by the majority. Gaf shits on the losing console most of the time because usually its due to the console holder screwing up and Gaf likes to give them shit for it. You know why? Because these are humongous multi-billion dollar companies that we assume should have some of the brightest people in the world on their payroll. But when they screw up on things that any normal person here could have seen from miles away, that's cause for ridicule. Anybody could have told Sony that comments about getting two jobs would come off as ridiculous and egotistical and launching a console at $599 would price them out of the mainstream market. Anybody could have told MS that continually saying that people just couldn't understand how innovative and futuristic their vision was a dumb and insulting way of apologizing for their original plans. When extremely well paid people and the extremely profitable companies they represent screw up, that's worthy of ridicule and mockery.

But you'll notice the Dreamcast is generally not shit on because while Sega made some missteps they didnt do anything egregious on the level of what Sony did with the PS3 or MS with the Xbox one in the early goings. It was simply a good console that a decent number of people liked that Sega earnestly tried to support and to help succeed but unfortunately met the juggernaut that was the PS2.
 
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