Do you actually care what race/sex a main character is?

Parmenide said:
And I can respect that, but that's YOU.

It works both ways.
On a message board I can express my opinion, based on my personal experience and so could that guy. When I wrote that I tought it could be relevant to the discussion, my bad you think otherwise.
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Now now, no one's saying that you can't voice your opinion and add it to the conversation, you can. The problem starts when you, literally, call half of the people who don't feel the same way you do homophobic, sexist or racist. Maybe he simply worded it poorly, but that's EXACTLY what he did.
 
No.

If the game is good, it will be good anyway. I just hate it when they try to shoehorn it in and then constantly bring attention to it, which they wouldn't if it was a white guy.
 
I like variety, but I'm not sure how much it affects my purchasing decisions. Some of my WoW characters are girls and alien races. April Ryan (female) and Manny Calavera (latino skeleton) are two of my favorite characters.

I am a white male, and I realize that may influence how I feel.
 
In any specific instance, no, but I think we need racial and gender diversity in general. If a game has a straight, white, male (for the record I'm a straight white male) protagonist I don't really single out that game for it, but I do wish there were more female/minority protagonists in general.
 
I don't really care. What matter are gameplay, story, and character development. The latter shouldn't depend on physical attributes.
 
Parmenide said:
And I can respect that, but that's YOU.

It works both ways.
On a message board I can express my opinion, based on my personal experience and so could that guy. When I wrote that I tought it could be relevant to the discussion, my bad you think otherwise.
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If you believe someone was banned wrongfully, the policy is to PM the mods or email the website.
 
I do because race and gender play a lot in the visual aesthetic and in some cases when done well, the characterization. I do find it weird in games like Skyrim which has a large amounts of lore about the races and the conflicts they have with each other yet your race is barely mentioned, only in passing comments by guards and random npcs. You would think a Civil War within the Nordic homeland, and a High King who obviously is bigoted against non-Nords and hates the imperial legion would react differently to different people. But then again the Civil War in Skyrim pretty much sucked and was a wasted opportunity.
 
ciaossu said:
I like variety, but I'm not sure how much it affects my purchasing decisions. Some of my WoW characters are girls and alien races. April Ryan (female) and Manny Calavera (latino skeleton) are two of my favorite characters.

I am a white male, and I realize that may influence how I feel.
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That actually brings to mind kind of a weird thing I have. I don't care about genders or orientations, but I will actively pick humans over aliens or elves or robots whenever possible.
 
Not really, but if a female option is available, I usually prefer to play as that.
More diversity, however, can only be a good thing.
 
Nope! But I always like playing girls when the option presents itself. Also, if multiple species are available I usually end up playing the game multiple times to get different options, class choices, etc.
 
I don't normally care, but lately I've found myself very bored of playing white male characters, as a white male myself.

Given the option of a character creator I'll normally go for a woman just because it gives me a different back of the head to stare at for hours. Also can change perceived relationships in cutscenes or whatever. It certainly adds an extra layer of interesting that I've come to enjoy recently.
 
I have my preferences like everyone else but I'm all for developers making what ever they want even if it doesn't fit some asinine idealistic view point of a few.
 
ab.aeterno said:
What constitutes "shoehorning"?
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That's poor word choice on my part.

I generally just mean developers who make a game that doesn't have the generic white guy but feel the need to point out they don't have a generic white guy rather than letting the character exist and develop through gameplay and narrative.
 
GamingIsDead said:
I have my preferences like everyone else but I'm all for developers making what ever they want even if it doesn't fit some asinine idealistic view point of a few.
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.

Truth!

People make a fuss about everything these days. why cant we have this, why cant we have that yada yada yada.

I always trust the developer to build a character that fits their story best.
 
I used to not like playing as older characters (like in MGS4), but I guess I've changed my mind a lot and rethought my values. Any other gender or race has never bothered me.
 
The Technomancer said:
Uhm why?
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It's a "Famous" quote from an old Japanese game.
Should have just used the image macro.
It does represent my opinion fairly well though. I greatly prefer playing as cute/beautiful/interesting designed characters but outside of that I have no significant preference as to the gender or race of the character.
 
SixMachine said:
I do because race and gender play a lot in the visual aesthetic and in some cases when done well, the characterization. I do find it weird in games like Skyrim which has a large amounts of lore about the races and the conflicts they have with each other yet your race is barely mentioned, only in passing comments by guards and random npcs. You would think a Civil War within the Nordic homeland, and a High King who obviously is bigoted against non-Nords and hates the imperial legion would react differently to different people. But then again the Civil War in Skyrim pretty much sucked and was a wasted opportunity.
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WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORD.

Though it's kind of fixed through mods.
 
Parmenide said:
And I can respect that, but that's YOU.

It works both ways.
On a message board I can express my opinion, based on my personal experience and so could that guy. When I wrote that I tought it could be relevant to the discussion, my bad you think otherwise.
Click to expand...

He wasn't just expressing his opinion, though. He was saying other people that express theirs are racist/homophobic/sexist. Calling names isn't productive to discussion, especially when it's your first and only post.
 
Mesoian said:
Now now, no one's saying that you can't voice your opinion and add it to the conversation, you can. The problem starts when you, literally, call half of the people who don't feel the same way you do homophobic, sexist or racist. Maybe he simply worded it poorly, but that's EXACTLY what he did.
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I see your point, but nowdays, in the industry, pepole are being accused of sexism just because they like to make a game about an etero male with a pretty active sexual life, like Anita did with CDProjekt.
So, if accusing others of being sexist, homophobic etc. because you think they are so based on your own criteria is such a bad thing, please ban Anita's threads.
 
robertsan21 said:
.

Truth!

People make a fuss about everything these days. why cant we have this, why cant we have that yada yada yada.

I always trust the developer to build a character that fits their story best.
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I won't say that's wrong, it's certainly not. I suppose the question is, what happens when almost every game stars a mid 20's white straight male because it's what the developer knows best? The developer isn't the wrong, and it's probably the best way to make something meaningful to said developer. But it does sort of make the landscape of gaming pretty samey.
 
Nope, but female main characters tend to have more range of emotions. Mostly because males are usually to busy trying to be tough
 
Parmenide said:
I see your point, but nowdays, in the industry, pepole are being accused of sexism just because they like to make a game about an etero male with a pretty active sexual life, like Anita did with CDProjekt.
So, if accusing others of being sexist, homophobic etc. because you think they are so based on your own criteria is such a bad thing, please ban Anita's threads.
Click to expand...

To keep from derailing, I'll just say what I always say in threads featuring Anita Sarkessian. I'm glad she's doing what she's doing, right or wrong it gets people talking about a subject they otherwise wouldn't, I am waiting for the person who can do it 10 times better than she can to rise up so we can take attention off of her because I don't think she does a very good job.
 
Parmenide said:
I see your point, but nowdays, in the industry, pepole are being accused of sexism just because they like to make a game about an etero male with a pretty active sexual life, like Anita did with CDProjekt.
So, if accusing others of being sexist, homophobic etc. because you think they are so based on your own criteria is such a bad thing, please ban Anita's threads.
Click to expand...

Oh please. They are not accusing specific people of sexism, but the industry. Think about how many "etero male with a pretty active sexual life" you've played compared to females with or without an active sexual life. This is beyond the point of this thread though.
 
Doctor_Thomas said:
That's poor word choice on my part.

I generally just mean developers who make a game that doesn't have the generic white guy but feel the need to point out they don't have a generic white guy rather than letting the character exist and develop through gameplay and narrative.
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You know, I'd like to know what people actually consider a "Generic white guy."

Calling Arno or Ezio from Assassin's Creed a "generic white guy" would totally baffle the fuck out of me. A Nondescript Accent-Neutral Caucasian-American maybe? The Aiden Pierces of the world I suppose.
 
robertsan21 said:
.

Truth!

People make a fuss about everything these days. why cant we have this, why cant we have that yada yada yada.

I always trust the developer to build a character that fits their story best.
Click to expand...

I think this line of thinking undermines discussion of certain issues. People like to see people like them represented in mediums they enjoy, and be respected. That's not unreasonable.
 
Yes, in most games I do. For example, in D3, I picked a Witch Doctor solely because he's black. If I have the option to make the main, he or she will be black or hispanic depending on the hair options.
 
Nope. But I do like variety, and appreciate characters that are a a little more exotic.
The only time I do care is when an already established character is changed. But that's more movies than games.
 
Mesoian said:
Eh, 1 is...I don't count that. I don't give Solid Snake toughness points because he's a crude knock off of Snake Pliskin.

But yes, you identify all you can with Samus as a character based on her deeds. We know she is tough because she completes her mission with extreme force and dutiful skill. And that's all we know. For 20 years, it's all we ever knew. So why did it matter that she was a woman? What did her gender add to her character? For characters who are defined by nothing but the task at hand, it just doesn't matter, and I think that's an attitude we need to start moving away from if we're going to make sex, gender and race actually mean something in video games.

As for OtherM, that was just a failing. I feel like that game was written by someone who had never played a Metroid game before, let alone understood what the series was saying about Samus, a woman who prefers working in isolation, needs nothing from anyone, gets the job done using only her training and ceremonial battle armor. Everything about how she is characterized in OtherM is poor and Nintendo should have understood that before letting the game go to shelves.
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You have a very valid point here. Would Samus be treated differently if there was a male in the suit instead of a female? I can only speak for myself, but I enjoyed the Metroid series for how effective the game is in making the player feel isolated, on a desolate planet, with dangerous wildlife and life sucking creatures that are the biggest threat to the galaxy. I'd enjoy Samus either male or female, but I do admit seeing and having Samus as a female is cooler and empowering.

Dee Dee said:
I will not be able to bring my point across here, since I am no native English speaker, but this is essentially exactly what bothers me. Characters who do heroic deeds will always get defaulted to single white males, and everything else will always be considered an exception, and people will argue that: "Well this really did not need to be a black woman. You whould just play this as a white male and enjoy the game!" All the people arguing that it should not matter, and some of them even arguing that games like this do not purposedly put white males as protagonists seem to miss the point. The did not randomly choose the race and sex of a character. They chose to have a white male.

People forget that video games is two words. "Video" is the part where there is an actual representation of your actions on a screen. And this representation matters for your enjoyment. In a forum where people talk about how badly rendered shadows make them put a game down, it should be okay to say that playing as a white male is something I prefer less than playing as a character of the sex and race you identify as.
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I think IMO it's more of "We have 8 months to craft a game, let's throw in a flimsy story with a non-descript male and work on the gameplay mostly". It's more of an afterthought with those particular games, but I wouldn't mind see representation in more games. I don't let it affect what I buy and what I don't buy though. Bad gameplay is bad gameplay.

shidoshi said:
First, I want to be clear: my thoughts aren't "this is exactly the way video games need to be or I'll be mad", they're "I want us to rethink why video games are the way they are". So, I'm not saying my opinions have to be law, or that they'll always be right.

But my first question would be, why does it need to be a "nondescript male" in that role? What does that character trait bring to the character or the game that could not be done if the character were female instead? Is it because it's the story of a father who has lost his child, or a husband who has lost his wife? Okay, if so, are you telling that story because you've got an actual story to tell, or because that's just the easiest cliche to go with?

On one side, let's taking something like Resistance 3. The hero was a nondescript male, but there was never one storyline beat or moment of importance (that I can remember) that really built upon that idea. If I were to magically make him a her, the story wouldn't change, and the character's progression through the game wouldn't be affected any. I could have had that choice, and the game wouldn't have been the lesser for it.

On the other side, you've got games like Silent Hill 2 and The Last of Us. Both build upon actual, crafted stories, where who those characters are is absolutely important. James was a husband trying to find his dead wife, and him being the husband and her being the wife were key elements to what was being told. Or Joel, where what he's been through, and the relationship that he forms with Ellie, probably wouldn't be as strong if you just let the player decide who Joel is supposed to be.

I'd argue that your statement works against the idea that the main character of the game has to be male in COD. Why can't a woman perform heroic deeds? Why can't she be the action hero? Why can't she go up against an entire army? Nearly everything that happens in COD's single player is completely unrealistic, so putting a female into that position changes nothing. And if my character is "nondescript male", then that pisses me off even more, because that means that there really is no reason that I couldn't be given the option to make generic white dude into anyone I want them to be.

Because it's a mental thing for me. In single-player games, I enjoy the fantasy, and almost never do I try to put myself into the game. In multiplayer, it's different. Multiplayer is me, competing with others. When you say "you're going to make a soldier, and customize them, and configure them, and that soldier is going to represent you on the battlefield", and then I see that solider, and it's someone who doesn't represent me because of its gender, while the majority of other players have soldiers that do represent them, I feel left out–no matter if that makes sense to someone else or not.

And I have far too little free time and far too many gaming choices to play something that makes me feel left out.

That's not to say that I will never play a multiplayer game that lacks such choices, because I've absolutely had examples of putting up with a game's lack of choice due to my enjoyment for the game (The Last of Us' Factions mode being a great recent example). At this point, though, there are enough games out there that understand the importance of choice that I can simply avoid those that don't.

And let me ask this: if gender choice in COD's multiplayer truly doesn't matter, then wouldn't it be true that the next game could come out, force all players to only play as female soldiers, and that should be okay? What if the tables were turned?
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You also have a fair point. I never said anything other than my preference for why it doesn't matter what I play or not and why I believe developers would use a non-descript male for their protag. But I forget often that those same devs and pubs also reinforce the whole "boys club" idea with video games.

The thread that showed female outnumbering males in gaming was testament of that idea.

CoD games to me are male power fantasies of action films. It's Michael Bay/Spielberg/John McTiernan in game form. The overlap I would think between the games and the demographics would be with the same fans of action films, but then again there are female fans of action movies.

I think it's more complicated and more of the pressure of publishers to ship something that'll sell vs developer creativity.

I'd be interested in an all female soldier perspective. We don't have any games that do that or tell that story IIRC. CoD Advanced Warfare could've done that VERY easily as a future warfare story. MGS introduced the idea of female soldiers being the best examples of soldiers in the battlefield, including having the best soldier in US history, The Boss. I'm not against the idea at all.
 
Games that are plot and character driven work best when there's something novel and interesting about the characters, so diversity really pays off. I honestly do not need to play another generic macho-male-asserts-himself-with-guns shooter. I skipped GTA V for exactly this reason.

For reference: white, female.
 
Parmenide said:
Wrong or right, it was his opinion, expressed in a respectful manner. Did he really deserve a ban?
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If you have questions or concerns regarding moderation, please contact a mod via PM or send email to support@neogaf.com. Not only does no one here know the exact reason the user in question was banned, but discussing moderation is a violation of the ToS and a derail in the thread.
 
I care a little. When I was smaller seeing 'heroes' that looked like me were rare so when there was some it had a weird effect on my self image.
 
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