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[SOLDIER]

I was listening to this week's Giant Bombcast where the group got into an anti-anime tirade while discussing Metal Gear Solid. This isn't the first time the people at GB have expressed (whether humorously or earnestly) their hatred of Anime, but it's also reminded me about some recent comments in Twitter on how hating Anime is becoming an increasing thing among mainstream commentators.

Supposedly this is due to how the recent attacks against women in the gaming industry have been by people using Anime avatars, but I hardly believe that's where it started. It seems to be a common thing to associate "people who watch Anime" in the same negative connotation given to Bronies and (most recently) Gamers. I'm just wondering what started this trend and if it is indeed getting worse.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't have my head so far down in the sand that I can't comprehend why people would be against Anime. There are countless negative examples anyone could bring up that depict the ugly and frequently sexist portrayal in any number of series past, present and future.

But you know what else is guilty of that? Every other medium on the planet. Is it right for someone to say all comics are terrible because the only thing they read was Holy Terror? Or to hate all movies because of something Eli Roth wrote? What about videogames, which are by and large being called out for their recent trend of violence and/or misogyny of female characters?

I could very easily name hundreds of Anime series and movies that feature none of the things people will often complain about with the medium. Yet mainstream voices like the guys at Giant Bomb continue to take on this infuriatingly ignorant approach where they can't even recognize a series beloved my thousands like One Piece, and will more often than not cite Cowboy Bebop as the only positive example that hey are aware of.

Considering how people are constantly being called out over the internet for not properly researching something, I'm truly surprised these people aren't being criticized for doing the exact same thing in regards to an entire medium. Saying all Anime is terrible because of tentacle rape or harems is just like saying All Videogames are terrible because of gory first person shooters and sex minigames.

 

[Livingskeletons]

Anime's popularity in the West has been waning for years.

 

[TUSR]

the war on anime and waifus will never end

 

[Buzzman]

About time someone made this thread, I'm tired of japanese cartoons being persecuted.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

That's what you get for listening to shitty podcasts.

 

[The Technomancer]

Now that the anime craze among adolescents is on a downturn (or over) and people don't think of anime as "that Dragonball/Yu-Gi-Oh/One Piece whatever" show the next most salient style of anime, especially with the internet's focus on "wacky japan" is the moe-fanservice stuff which a lot of people find offputting

 

[thereisnoif]

It sure seems like it's growing and I'm not sure why. I remember being on AOL when Gundam Wing was airing stateside and lots of folks were into it.

 

[ishibear]

If someone wants to complain about anime, they can. They don't have to tackle the same issues in other media just because they dislike anime.

Jfc, can we let that method of argument die?

 

[bigkrev]

Outside of Toonami (on at midnight Saturdays), there really isn't any TV distribution for Anime. And we now live in an era where 95% of anime each season gets licensed and streamed simultaneously online, so anime fans can watch to their hearts content.

It's a lot harder to get into now, but easier to enjoy once you are in.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

There was a time when the mainstream didn't hate anime?

 

[AtomskEater]

Eh. Nowadays I find it easier to meet people who happen to watch anime, casually or otherwise, in real life or on the net. Hardcore peeps are kind of dying down, though.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Dude, you picked a bunch of people who have never liked anime to show that there's a growing dislike of anime?

 

[SOLDIER]

Outside of Toonami (on at midnight Saturdays), there really isn't any TV distribution for Anime. And we now live in an era where 95% of anime each season gets licensed and streamed simultaneously online, so anime fans can watch to their hearts content.

It's a lot harder to get into now, but easier to enjoy once you are in.

And yet it's more available than ever thanks to Netflix, Hulu and Crunchyroll. Now everyone has access to the newest shows the second they come out, instead of having to resort to piracy or licensed DVDs.

Just look at how properties like JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and Attack on Titan became big hits in the West, thanks to their new adaptations being commercially available because of streaming. If anything I'd argue that Anime has become bigger in the West than it has been in a very long time.

 

[SliceSabre]

Anime has been in a constant war with the mainstream. The war is endless.

Seriously speaking though. Eh whatever. If they don't like it fine that's their choice and tastes. But I certainly don't think hate for it is growing or anything.

 

[SOLDIER]

Dude, you picked a bunch of people who have never liked anime to show that there's a growing dislike of anime?

This isn't the Penny Arcade forum (which would never even allow this as a discussion).

 

[alr1ght]

Anime has never been cool, breh.

And Giant Bomb isn't mainstream.

 

[Mendoza]

I used to get down with anime back when the main characters were older. Shows like Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, Hellsing, Berserk had casts who consisted of characters that were at least over 20.

It seems like within the last few years, more and more contemporary anime characters are in high school or younger and are trying to save the world. I'm sick of the angst, the moe, and the convoluted plots. I no longer watch anime because of these things.

Don't get me wrong though because I still love anime movies like Ghibli stuff, and I still like the anime aesthetic.

 

[Antiwhippy]

This isn't the Penny Arcade forum (which would never even allow this as a discussion).

That has always weirded me out. Also why I kinda grew away from that community.

 

[freenudemacusers]

people fear what they don't understand or lack the education and sensitivity to appreciate on an aesthetic or intellectual level. a good analogy would be feeding a small girl vegetables all the while she's crying about ice cream.

 

[firehawk12]

Jeff Gerstmann has become famous for this:

But anyway, for the most part they just joke about it. They like the WWE, which is about as stupid as anime.

That said, I think most people on GAF ignore people with anime avatars. I think it's a rule or something. lol

 

[TxdoHawk]

This is just another rung in the ladder of the "nerds that breathlessly hate [nerd thing]" trend. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.

 

[BocoDragon]

I took Giant Bomb's statement that MGS was anime as 100% accurate ... I was making that point to a friend the week prior.

And I don't think that calling it anime was condemning it, so much as stating that it is indeed an insane piece of anime-like Japanese fiction (with melodramatic speeches, wacky villains, etc), not at all "just" a piece of military action fiction.

Sure, Jeff Gerstmann probably doesn't love anime. He hates a lot of things. But I think even he has a token piece of admiration for anime silliness.

If anything, it reveals that Dan Rykert probably loves anime trappings.. And doesn't realize it, sticking his fingers in his ears. But this is a man who thinks he doesn't like anything... Not even condiments. A very peculiarly risk averse dude.

That said, peak anime backlash was more like 2005-2010, after the mega popularity of anime in the west had waned.

Right now we are in mainstream indifference to anime. It's just another niche subculture...

 

[The Technomancer]

people fear what they don't understand or lack the education and sensitivity to appreciate on an aesthetic or intellectual level. a good analogy would be feeding a small girl vegetables all the while she's crying about ice cream.

oh you

 

[plasmawave]

I feel the opposite because of shows like Attack on Titan and Jojo.
Seems like when they are large amount of people enjoying something there's always an equal amount of hate coming from the other side.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

 

[Turin]

Anime like any other medium has some real quality stuff amidst a pile of crap.

People who hate on it are probably focusing on the crap.

 

[entremet]

Anime is too niche for the mainstream to have an opinion.

 

[Mortemis]

Not many give a shit about anime though, not enough to hate on it at least.

I wouldn't lose sleep about someone hating on a medium of entertainment breh.

If someone wants to complain about anime, they can. They don't have to tackle the same issues in other media just because they dislike anime.

Jfc, can we let that method of argument die?

Seriously, just because someone hates the sexist portrayals in anime, doesn't mean they have to go on a tirade against every other medium. The argument that everyone else does it too is weak.

people fear what they don't understand or lack the education and sensitivity to appreciate on an aesthetic or intellectual level. a good analogy would be feeding a small girl vegetables all the while she's crying about ice cream.

Yo you almost got me there. God damn that avatar.

 

[SOLDIER]

I took Giant Bomb's statement that MGS was anime as 100% accurate ... I was making that point to a friend the week prior.

And I don't think that calling it anime was condemning it, so much as stating that it is indeed an insane piece of anime-like Japanese fiction (with melodramatic speeches, wacky villains, etc), not at all "just" a piece of military action fiction.

The conversation was literally:

"Drew you like MGS, so you must like anime."

"No, that isn't true! I fucking hate anime! I think."

 

[TheShampion]

I don't think there is a causation, but I find there is a correlation between if someone hates anime, and if they are insufferable. I think it is because if a person is so judgmental on something so niche, it probably means that they make a point on being negative on anything they don't deem "worthy."

GB is bad a lot with that just because of how hypocritical they are about it. They will say anime is terrible in one breath, and then praise stuff like Asura's Wrath and MGS2. It makes it look like they hate anime only because it is "cool" to do so.

 

[friskykillface]

mainstream doesn't really care about anime, hell some call them cartoons basically
the hate is just a small percent, basically a small ripple in the entire world

but as long as space dandy is around then anime is good

 

[Tomohawk]

I think hate for anime, stems from the fact that the most popular are stuff like naruto that never ends.

edit: I think anime is perceived as very similar to comic books. Crazy over the top events, with a lot of fan service.

 

[Vanillalite]

Honestly I don't think your average person gives a fuck one way or another.

 

[Protag]

Varied tastes. I do love anime. Hate a lot of it too.

 

[BocoDragon]

The conversation was literally:

"Drew you like MGS, so you must like anime."

"No, that isn't true! I fucking hate anime! I think."

I took it as a man in deep denial... Waking up to the fact that he is trapped in the anime closet.

 

[firehawk12]

I don't think there is a causation, but I find there is a correlation between if someone hates anime, and if they are insufferable. I think it is because if a person is so judgmental on something so niche, it probably means that they make a point on being negative on anything they don't deem "worthy."

GB is bad a lot with that just because of how hypocritical they are about it. They will say anime is terrible in one breath, and then praise stuff like Asura's Wrath and MGS2. It makes it look like they hate anime only because it is "cool" to do so.

They don't really hate anime though. It's just an easy target.

 

[Kieli]

I hate anime too. It offends my delicate sensibilities.

 

[SOLDIER]

GB is bad a lot with that just because of how hypocritical they are about it. They will say anime is terrible in one breath, and then praise stuff like Asura's Wrath and MGS2. It makes it look like they hate anime only because it is "cool" to do so.

aka The Cowboy Bebop Syndrome.

 

[BunnyBear]

I am prejudice against anime, I'll admit. I look down on people who really get into it and I correlate a deep fascination of it with people who lack social prowess. I know that's unfair but I can't help it.

I just find it distasteful, a little odd and entirely uninteresting and I have little interest in the culture. Sorry. =(

I don't know anyone in my social circle who watch it. It may come with my total disinterest in Asian culture and entertainment.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

Anime seems to be doing well with streaming sites like Crunchyroll popping up to make it very easy to get into the latest shows or past ones. I think other sites like Hulu and Netlfix also have anime that can anyone can browse just by sifting through the category.

Anime seemed to have a larger presence on TV when I was growing up. I don't think any Canadian stations air any anymore, or at least the ones I used to watch (I think the US has toonami). I think it's safe to say that the balance has shifted more towards internet viewing in recent years.

I can't say that I've seen anything that would make me believe that hate for anime is growing. I wouldn't take a handful of people talking on a podcast and Twitter as an indication of a change in mainstream opinion.

 

[sn00zer]

Well the rise of loli really alienated people and the massive presence of fan service only pushed that further....trying to watch any recent anime is just embarrassing, its either embarassingly violent where heads are getting blown off in regular episodes (Psycho Pass), embarassingly fanservicey where underage girls are poised as weirdly proportioned sex goddesses (Kill La Kill) or just filled to the brim with highchool drama which when out of fashion in America around the time Dawson's Creek ended...the tone of main steam anime is just kind of gross and off putting...

That said someone pointed me over to "One Punch Man" which was absolutely great and very fun, and had very few of the issues I stated above. So Im sure there is more stuff out there, its just needs to be popularized instead of the weird shit thats going on today.

 

[BocoDragon]

They don't really hate anime though. It's just an easy target.

I don't think they hate it either. I think they downright ironically love it. I'm thinking back to their appreciation for the over-the-top senator in Metal Gear Rising.

 

[Heroman]

The mainstream doesnt even know about anime, so doubt hating it is growing.

 

[Antiwhippy]

The conversation was literally:

"Drew you like MGS, so you must like anime."

"No, that isn't true! I fucking hate anime! I think."

The same guy is in denial about mayonnaise being the same as aoli.

 

[SOLDIER]

Varied tastes. I do love anime. Hate a lot of it too.

Congratulations, you're a well-adjusted human being.

I don't think there even exists someone who legitimately loves every single anime in existence. Usually the most hardcore fans of something like Naruto will only like Naruto while calling everything else shit.

Apparently I don't even count as a "hardcore fan" according to some people, since I have a very specific list of shows I do love that is apparently "small" compared to other people's lists.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

They don't really hate anime though. It's just an easy target.

That might be part of his point, though. At least regarding Dan, he absolutely hates anime, and it's fully out of ignorance as he himself said he never watched a anime before. He's rather peculiar, though, so I don't know if taking anything he says seriously is worth it.

But Jeff and Vinny enjoyed their time with Persona 4, to your point.

 

[Piecake]

The mainstream doesnt care enough about anime to hate it. It is indifferent to it.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Well the rise of loli really alienated people and the massive presence of fan service only pushed that further....trying to watch any recent anime is just embarrassing, its either embarassingly violent where heads are getting blown off in regular episodes (Psycho Pass), embarassingly fanservicey where underage girls are poised as weirdly proportioned sex goddesses (Kill La Kill) or just filled to the brim with highchool drama which when out of fashion in America around the time Dawson's Creek ended...the tone of main steam anime is just kind of gross and off putting...

That said someone pointed me over to "One Punch Man" which was absolutely great and very fun, and had very few of the issues I stated above. So Im sure there is more stuff out there, its just needs to be popularized instead of the weird shit thats going on today.

This and the culture of some of the people who surround anime have alienated a great lot of folk from ever mentioning it in a group conversation.

I feel like Attack on Titan has helped things a bit.

I showed it to a few friends who haven't cared about an anime since Dragon Ball Z, and they've shown it to other people, and it's spreading.

I was hoping that would happen. Seems like a pretty decent anime, need to find time during the semester to watch it. BTW, sub or dub?

 

[ishibear]

Congratulations, you're a well-adjusted human being.

I don't think there even exists someone who legitimately loves every single anime in existence. Usually the most hardcore fans of something like Naruto will only like Naruto while calling everything else shit.

Apparently I don't even count as a "hardcore fan" according to some people, since I have a very specific list of shows I do love that is apparently "small" compared to other people's lists.

Ya know... I noticed that too...

 

[Sheroking]

I feel like Attack on Titan has helped things a bit.

I showed it to a few friends who haven't cared about an anime since Dragon Ball Z, and they've shown it to other people, and it's spreading.