Well, I'm not a mod (and I wouldn't have thought he'd be banned for that, either), but making a one-line post about a Really Contentious Topic and then completely refusing to explain yourself - especially when those are your first-ever posts on the forum - does not bode well.
Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos
- Thread starter papersleeves
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It is, but that's the point. we live in a world where rapists get away with all sorts of things and the victims are often shamed. The term serves as a way for people to draw attention to how non-serious and misunderstood rape is to many people despite it being considered one of the worst crimes.
Gormless Noodle
Member
I fail to see how one video can let you make such a blanket statement about a community that exists out of millions upon millions of people. The post you quoted also did not recommend anything as far as I can see.
fvng
Member
Yeah man, it's not their design, it's you. Click the link at the top of the page. There's even a thumbnail of the video to click on
One guy doesn't equal the entire community.
Sure, but when the pro-GamerGate faction seems to be pointing to this as one of the better videos advocating their perspective, that doesn't exactly paint them favorably.
Moral Panic is sitting at Total Posts: 3,013 (3.81 posts per day), pretty active member of GAF. Pretty safe bet that conclusion doesn't come from *one* video.
Ive pointed this out, but if there wasnt a huge media silence over everything, then people wouldnt be pushing these crappy videos.
Ignoring issues people care about leads to things like this. Gaming Journalism is flawed in this sense as from the big sites, ive only seen people reporting with obvious bias and malice.
JesseEwiak
Member
You realize that's the argument from every conspiratorial group out there, right? "The REAL media isn't covering Benghazi/GMO/vaccines/FEMA/9/11/etc." so we have to be the truth tellers!
That's not a generalization in the slightest.
If you are going to call people misogynists, go ahead and name them so we don't have to guess who you're calling out.
Moon_frogger
Member
Who?
No, I'm arguing that there are ways to be objective and point out specific things that people feel strongly about without having bias. And ultimately, this leads to things like conspiracy theorists posting obviously terrible and misinformed videos to that group.
Also, this stuff has been reported on both sides of this argument with a horrendous amount of malice and bias. People are obviously interested in a lot of this stuff, and having objective journalists be able to make objective articles helps make this less of an Us Vs Them, because at the end of the day, if there's nothing objective or unbiased out there, people are going to clamour to videos that support their theories more then ones that dont support their theories.
Gormless Noodle
Member
That's fantastic, but Moral Panic should state this in their post then, because it looks like an unfounded blanket statement to me.
Kotaku has addressed the ethical issues that have been brought up over the past few weeks. Twice. Yet we are still the number one target on the GamerGate hashtag. I can certainly see the "obvious bias and malice."
Kotaku addressed ethical concerns, but hasn't actually done any type of reporting beyond saying "we agree that we should be held to a higher ethical standard"
While this is a good sentiment, it's not an actual article talking about what has happened. It's merely a response to people complaining.
Read this then.: http://gamesnosh.com/womans-perspective-gamergate/
Pretty sure Viola is not a misogynist.
JesseEwiak
Member
Or maybe, there isn't a some inherent vast conspiracy with ethics in the games press? I mean, yes, Jeff Gerstmann. Eight years ago.
I'm going to be blunt here. I don't think the games press is any better or worse than the movies, music, or most other enthusiast press. No, they're not the New York Times (even though, google Judith Miller and the Iraq War to find something you should be far more upset about than a guy from vidyagames.com eating some sliders), but I don't expect the enthusiast press to be in the first place.
Women can be misogynists as well.
Or maybe there is, and that's why there's a shit ton of people using the #gamergate shit. Maybe there's a story to tell somewhere. In fact, it has been reportedly on by a lot of people, but once again, it's been done with malice and bias with both sides trying to go "look our bad things aren't because you guys did something bad"
Moon_frogger
Member
It's because kotaku contributors are supposedly the ones committing the breach of ethics. Of course you'll be the target. Hopefully you personally haven't taken too much shit over this whole thing. You're one the few people covering the games industry that should be allowed to legitimately call yourself 'journalist'. And I don't mean to put down your colleagues and peers with that remark either. Plenty of them are great writers but it's your work that consistently has the mark of great investigative journalism. I still get a chuckle every time I read the line 'press sneak fuck'.
If you've read the thing and believe that Viola Fischer is a misogynist, say so. I already knew that women can also be misogynist.
A PR person named Lego Butts works PR for a lot of Indie Devs including Zoe Quinn (although this part is pretty irrelevant)
Lego Butts is in either a romantic or platonic friendship with the creator of IGF
IGF has nominated a lot of games that had Lego butts as a PR
IGF does not show how they judge said game
Indie devs who have taken part in IGF have stated that judges had hardly played their games
You think the traffic drop really is about all of this stuff?
Its only 15 seconds or so of Ventura impersonation.
Alright point taken!
*looks up other videos*
Alright here's one from "InternetAristocrat".
Oh... wait... it starts with the same intro of the first one we were talking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5-...feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_895102433
Also it's all about the Zoe Quinn conspiracy that we should ALL AGREE is rooted in misogyny. Also, this dude has a serious persecution complex.
Okay okay, lets keep looking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rTFDhVmnUE
This one looks great! It's even got a silly intro that satirizes Metal Gear Solid 2. Awesome...
Wait.
http://youtu.be/9rTFDhVmnUE?t=3m29s
Oh shit, he's on about Zoe Quinn and her sex life too. Fuck. Another tin-foil hatter with a persecution complex. Okay so there surely has to be a video that deals with #GamerGate but not Zoe Quinn's sex life.
Welp, here's the next one on the list.
http://youtu.be/ahgpCT4Lpnw?t=47s
God damnit. More about Zoe Quinn and incorrect "facts" and accusations.
Alright fine. I can't seem to find any #GamerGate video that doesn't include the presumption of nepotism based sexual relationships involving Zoe Quinn.
Here's that one that was already linked in the thread earlier featuring a girl. A GIRL!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7x3HSmNJ2o
Notice how she doesn't mention Zoe Quinn.
JesseEwiak
Member
With hundred of millions of people on Twitter, there's a lot of people upset about everything. Aside from the IGF thing, which at the end of the day, is petty bullshit about an indy games competition, I haven't seen any proof of endemic corruption of the games press.
I see lots of stuff about how the games press doesn't agree with them about issue x, doesn't like the same games they do, or is somehow insanely corrupt because they took kitschy statue y from developer z.
The actual issues, as far as disclosing how games are acquired, how games were played, and so on, have all been covered and changed at all the major sites. The rest of the issues are all basically, "don't be friends with developers."
As Matt Lees said upthread in his article, no matter what they do, a segment of the population is going to think the games press is corrupt because their tastes don't line up with what the accuser believes, so they must be corrupt/paid off/know nothing about gaming. At this point, you're not going to convince those people anymore a Republican is going to convince me to vote for them.
What traffic drop? I really hope you don't believe the nonsense you see on that hashtag.
I was thinking that the site's views would have gone up because of this.
I'm going to guess Alexa or whatever isnt accurate?
Actually, I just checked google trends
http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=kotaku.com
Seems they disagree with Alexa.
JesseEwiak
Member
Alexa's OK for general general traffic trends, but it's not exact at all.
Ya, I just read your response and thought it was hurting Kotaku in a tangible way, then searched the hashtag and saw that pic, thought you were commenting on that.
CrazedProfessional
Member
All this shit makes me want to never trust game journalism ever again and ignore every indie game labelled "revolutionary" by the online press.
Zabant
Member
What is the Implication here, is it that women can be misogynists therefore Viola is a misogynist?
Please base your arguments on evidence and don't throw around baseless accusations.
Gsak
Member
Are you talking about #GamerGate?
To be fair to the gamergate people there are fairly obvious reason why you're getting heat: Grayson, and then the revelations about those Patricia Hernandez pieces.
It's true that you've addressed the issues more than most, but then again you need to address the issues more than most. (At least in the eyes of some people)
There's also that Kotaku covers a lot of stuff only loosely related to gaming, so not covering Zoe Quinn stuff makes less sense for Kotaku than it does for a site more narrowly focused.
Not saying they are right to keep targeting you, but I can see the impetus for it.
Probably one of the least accurate measurements unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your perspective). It won't know personal things about you but it'll make certain assumptions and projections based on a bunch of different factors. Things like traffic should be generally accurate though still not extremely precise.
I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours. And since you're weenus waving, tell us about your alma maters and degrees? Mind you I never once called myself a journalist.
Well their location data might not be too bad, but their projections about how that + other data relates to race / ethnicity should be taken with a grain of salt.
Along these lines IMO there's a good chance that a nice chunk of their audience (young + tech-savvy) is blocking a whole lot of trackers etc, so that traffic probably trends even higher.
Gsak
Member
Didn't know you had to be published/interview people in order to know about journalistic principles.
But if that's the case, I have been published, I have interviewed people from/related to the game industry. And no, I will not say where. I am not calling myself a journalist, but I sure as hell know than other than OP ED pieces, a journalist is supposed to keep their opinions out of their news articles, interviews and reports.
So yeah, keep approaching a possible interview with that kind of attitude, but don't expect others to see you as a proper journalist.
I posted this before, but seems people like you need a reminder:
r u srs comparing a relationship with a member of the national security council to some human who made a game or 2
Gsak
Member
Of course not.
Team Filler
Member
lol you said "weenus"
Off the air for going on six and that siren song still callin'
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