MrSaturn99
Member
I also realized Link and Samus have been absent so far.
I think we're in for quite a rollercoaster with these last seven mystery characters!
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 14: Snake... had a hard life
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I also realized Link and Samus have been absent so far.
I think we're in for quite a rollercoaster with these last seven mystery characters!
Spinosaurus
Member
He's always been depicted as gross and lazy actually. True, nose picking is about the worst he'd do, but the combination of the crude microgames in Warioware and the Wario team fixation with having poop stickers (Wario Land 4's japanese manuals for one...) it's not exactly hard to see why Sakurai went with the Wario in Brawl. Warioware is also bizarrely zany and unpredictable, and I can see Sakurai's direction for trying to make Wario's moves have that same feel as well.
Also Chomp could be based on the Microgame where Wario chomps down on a giant hotdog, and there's a similar Microgame with him farting. (Hence, Waft)
He has a lot of subtle nods to his games anyway with his animations. Wario's double jump animation tells me that Sakurai put a lot of thought into his moveset. Really neat reference.
His new DAir is baffling. Why give an aerial character an unsafe aerial that takes him straight down to the ground?
PM Wario isn't a bad character, but he's a mess.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Elaborate.
Which move is the Shoulder Charge? Can you cite one game where the Shoulder Charge from Smash is the same as it?
EDIT: See, Wario doesn't need to have subtle nods, he has like 20 different games you could take from, dozens of moves you could make out of things he actually does in his games as a part of the gameplay. Mario doesn't get subtle nods - he gets a Cape Feather, he gets FLUDD, he gets a Fire Flower. Palutena doesn't get subtle nods, all of her attacks are real things that exist in Uprising.
Which move is the Shoulder Charge? Can you cite one game where the Shoulder Charge from Smash is the same as it?
EDIT: See, Wario doesn't need to have subtle nods, he has like 20 different games you could take from, dozens of moves you could make out of things he actually does in his games as a part of the gameplay. Mario doesn't get subtle nods - he gets a Cape Feather, he gets FLUDD, he gets a Fire Flower. Palutena doesn't get subtle nods, all of her attacks are real things that exist in Uprising.
Reading the leaked Wario trophy, it seems they are fixating too much on Wario being "gross", when I don't think he reLly ever has been outside of Brawl. He's a money hungry, rude, obnoxious guy. Am I missing something? Why is he "gross" in Smash so much? Farts. Picking his nose. When did these become Wario staples?
That being said, I like his moves in Brawl. I would be okay if they got rid of the motorcycle for something else though. The fart, too. Just because it's a "gross" move.
That being said, I like his moves in Brawl. I would be okay if they got rid of the motorcycle for something else though. The fart, too. Just because it's a "gross" move.
Hear, hear. Not only is this a one dimensional depiction of the character, it also pushes more appealing characteristics of his to the side. His greed, his bravery, his masculinity, all awesome facets of Wario that you would never get if you insist on making him an encapsulation of toilet humor. It's telling that Wario Land Shake It!'s director made a point from ignoring the characterization Wario was getting elsewhere, and going back to the character's roots.
Save 'N Quit
Banned
Are some people really questioning Ike's popularity?
They must have never had to deal with the legion of Ike players that Brawl had.
They must have never had to deal with the legion of Ike players that Brawl had.
MrSaturn99
Member
The first shot of WarioWare's intro is literally just him lying on the couch picking his nose.
The Great Gonzales
Member
I see what you're saying. I definitely agree that the gross angle is played up way too much (get rid of the Fart, please,) although to be fair to Sakurai, Nintendo as a whole tends to write Wario as the gross guy. I do think, however, that requiring a move to be derived from actual gameplay is sometimes too high of a bar. The bike and Wario Man were big parts of his character in WarioWare games, so even though they weren't necessarily big parts of the gameplay, I think it's fair to use them to represent the character. And I'm glad they went with the Chomp rather than a straight Hyper Suction. Kirby and Dedede already have suction moves; this helps keep Wario unique.
All things considered, though, I'd easily take your option A over what we have now. A more robust Butt Smash and Shoulder Charge would be great, as well as some of the Wario Land powerups.
SoulUnison
Banned
I hate Farting Gross Wario, too. There's so much history in the character that they instead replaced with a bad joke.
MiguelMexMIstery
Member
A Link to the Past
Banned
I certainly agree - in cutscenes and concept art, Wario is shown to pick his nose. However, that is not related to anything he does in his games. Remember the cutscene where Mario dreams about lasagna in Sunshine? Imagine if his Down B summoned dream lasagna
It'd be stupid and Mario fans would hate it
It'd be stupid and Mario fans would hate it
Fuck yeah, Ike!
I was worried he wasn't going to make the list. Glad to see him up there. Although, I'm not terribly surprised that he's popular given that I think his design really appeals to a lot of people. He's a cool lookin' dude. A lot of newcomers are attracted to him initially due to his raw power.
As for actual play-style, he leaves so much to be desired. I tried for a long time to main him and really push him to his limits, but eventually I ended up with ZSS. That said, there's nothing as terrifying as a good Ike in a 4 player FFA. He dominates in those kinds of situations.
Also, Ragnell is a really awesome sword.
I was worried he wasn't going to make the list. Glad to see him up there. Although, I'm not terribly surprised that he's popular given that I think his design really appeals to a lot of people. He's a cool lookin' dude. A lot of newcomers are attracted to him initially due to his raw power.
As for actual play-style, he leaves so much to be desired. I tried for a long time to main him and really push him to his limits, but eventually I ended up with ZSS. That said, there's nothing as terrifying as a good Ike in a 4 player FFA. He dominates in those kinds of situations.
Also, Ragnell is a really awesome sword.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Frankly, and I'm not afraid to say it, I believe that Sakurai legitimately has bias against Wario Land. More so than he apparently has bias toward Kirby or Uprising, and more so than he apparently has against Metroid or DK.
MrSaturn99
Member
I agree with Gonzales in that the bike/Wario-Man are major parts of his WarioWare incarnation regardless of whether or not they're in the gameplay. It feels completely natural to me.
Not to mention, I vaguely recall a microgame where you ride the bike?
Not to mention, I vaguely recall a microgame where you ride the bike?
MannyToons
Member
A-greed.
Nice to see the best FE lord rank so high. My main in Brawl and Project M too!
MrSaturn99
Member
uhhhhhhh
OricWindstar
Member
Sorry, just now saw this. Indeed I do; every page ends after 50 posts, so try and do it aroun then.
The Great Gonzales
Member
Wario has been picking his nose in pretty much every game (and game manual) he's ever been in, save perhaps for the first few. The grossness is nothing new, but it is getting overemphasized these days. Originally, Wario's biggest feature was his greed. All his games were about getting tons of treasure and building a ridiculously ostentatious mansion for himself. The grossness was an important part of this, because it filled out Wario's "vulgarian" persona, but it shouldn't be the central feature.
I totally agree, but I couldn't help but laugh at that part. Wario's "bravery" has always consisted in a single-minded pursuit of treasure and a huge ego, and his "masculinity" has always consisted in his slobbish, muscle-headedness (to coin a phrase.) Not exactly great virtues of character.
I totally agree, but I couldn't help but laugh at that part. Wario's "bravery" has always consisted in a single-minded pursuit of treasure and a huge ego, and his "masculinity" has always consisted in his slobbish, muscle-headedness (to coin a phrase.) Not exactly great virtues of character.
A Link to the Past
Banned
That interview was awesome, and it's exactly how Sakurai should have depicted him - a macho tough-guy. Let him keep his bike, his Up B, but give him a Ground Slam and the Shoulder Charge(as it actually works in his games, not in the gimped Brawl version) for the other B attacks. Give him a Down Aerial Butt Stomp too.
MrSaturn99
Member
such gold
True, her killling power was shit, and her close range game is laughable, but I liked the challenge anyway.
If it was up to Sakurai, he would cut everyone and just make it a cat simulator. True story.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Here is a list of Wario Land content in Smash. ALL Smash.
1. Wario trophy in Melee.
2. Bucket (half Wario) in Melee.
3. Classic Wario alt costume.
4. Classic Wario trophy.
5. Tiny Wario sticker.
You could try listing the content DK and Metroid have, but you might have to take a break in between to avoid carpal tunnel.
Spinosaurus
Member
It's Wario's own developers that put Wario Land behind them. They haven't made a Wario Land game since 4, and have moved on to Warioware from there. Sakurai might just have thought it'd be better to give Warioware the spotlight because of that.
I could see it considering DK just got his damn roll.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I'm not really down on Shoulder Charge being anything other than a single B input that is followed by his trademark dash - that can, of course, allow you to jump while doing it. It's a cool attack and it was done really poorly in Brawl.
No excuse for Sakurai though, when Good-Feel just made a really, really good Wario Land game.
No excuse for Sakurai though, when Good-Feel just made a really, really good Wario Land game.
Spinosaurus
Member
MrSaturn99
Member
I'd like to think he put in the Classic Wario alt for a reason.
these sakurai conspiracy theories, man
I should really stop procrastinating on my Frank Sinatra reading assignment.
lol yeah it's like, they gave him his roll, but it's the most clumsiest DK roll I've ever seen.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Wario Land has been a series for like, 12 years by the time Brawl came out. There were five games he could have taken content from. DOZENS of characters he could have taken content from. As for his costume - what of it? More people know him for his Classic costume thanks to Mario Kart, Tennis, Party, Golf, etc. I would sooner say that Sakurai added the costume just because of his Mario series roles.
Benzychenz
Member
Samus is an amazing character and ZSS is fun to play.
Spinosaurus
Member
TheUntamedLegend
Member
I cannot agree, Sakurai gave Wario the only true alt costume in Brawl: His classic (Wario Land) outfit. No other character had that honor.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Why is this Wario Land content though? This costume appears in the most successful Nintendo game in the company's history. It also certainly doesn't make a Wario Land fan say "hey, this is everything I need! No stages, no items, no trophies, no music, no Shoulder Charge, no Butt Stomp,, but I get an alt costume".
Mario doesn't have a Dr. Mario costume, sure. This is made up for by the 800 trillion other things Mario does have.
Meta Knight can't take his mask off. On the other hand, his series has a million billion tropohies.
Diddy can't wear sunglasses, but he can be thankful that his series got tons of content in Brawl.
Samus has been one of my favourite characters to play as in every Smash game, despite always being considered bad to mediocre.
Would love if she were more effective a fighter, but either way she will be getting plenty of use from me. I didn't use ZSS much in Brawl but I'm definitely gonna give her more of a chance this time. From what I've seen so far she looks great.
Why aren't Pikachu's hats counted as alternate costumes again?
The Bankslammer
Member
little known development fact: super smash bros brawl was originally devised as a smear campaign against wario. modeling staff had to actually sneak the plumber alt into the game without sakurai's knowledge in an attempt to save him from his false gross characterization. once sakurai learned of their attempts to tarnish his plan with unclean wario land content, they, along with their families, were exiled and never heard from again.
MiguelMexMIstery
Member
Off topic: One of my favorite things in the SSE is the friendship/team of Luigi, Ness and Dedede.
Well for one each doesn't have it's own set of colors.
I always imagine Wario in that costume since it's the one he uses everywhere. I do feel like he should have borrowed more from Wario Land...like at least 1/4 and 3/4 warioware althought I would rather more of the former
A Link to the Past
Banned
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