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[HUELEN10]

Didn't see this video posted yet, so here it is. It literally just came out. Boogie just made his own video in support of #GG + #NYS (#notyourshield and #gamergate). I think it's an excellent video, and quite respectful. He also linked to a Change petition. What do you think GAF? Personally, I think his video is once again very respectful, and passionate. I also find it surprising that someone who is vocal is actually talking about #notyourshield.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Watching now. I like boogie. A really nice guy.

 

[TheActtionFigure]

I'm glad that he made this video. The vitriol, and the "us versus them" mentality of games press has gotten so goddamn stupid that it makes my head hurt. I'm all for diversity in games but even as a Black dude I've always enjoyed games for what they are regardless of a character's race or gender.

 

[Jobbs]

I normally like boogie, but I feel like I learned something about him with this video that I didn't know before. I felt like this video/argument was supremely lazy.

Whether or not you agree with any given point swirling around the twitters and blogs and polygons and kotakus these days, I don't think anyone is actually arguing that "all gamers are bigots". I can't think of anyone who's making this claim, and this is the premise of boogie's video -- that evil jerks who want to ruin games are saying all gamers are bigots. No one is saying that.

This isn't an intellectual video.

If he wants to think about who he's talking to and who he's aligning himself with when he makes such an argument as this, he should look at the comments as they pour in. I haven't studied them closely, but I'm psychic: I bet they're nearly uniformly ignorant and/or revolting.

 

[ToneDeezy]

I like Boogie a lot, but this is pretty much textbook #notallmen :/

 

[Fliesen]

#notAllGamers ? :/

 

[Corpekata]

Opens with a huge straw man. And he's better than that. He's usually very smart.

I'm baffled that people are still using the "You play Crandy Crush? You're a gamer, and they just insulted you!" line of reasoning. Most of the "anti gamer" stuff clearly has a very specific audience. People like his character of Francis. And I think he knows that. God I hope he does at least. I don't know how someone that owes his career to satirizing the typical fanboy could not.

 

[kenta]

I feel like either I'm not getting it or he's not getting it. That missed the mark for me either way, though, feels like he made leaps of logic that I couldn't follow

 

[HUELEN10]

I feel like either I'm not getting it or he's not getting it. That missed the mark for me either way, though, feels like he made leaps of logic that I couldn't follow

To be honest, the current #notyourshield and #gamergate movement that started ramping up with what some call the "Quinnspiracy Theory" or Five Guys has been moving massively and very fast, so it's very easy to get out of the loop, be misinformed or lack information, or get lost.

Boogie definitely knows a lot of it though; he has started that he has been following it, like many of us, from the start.

Currently, it's day 18 or 19 of this right now.

 

[Sylvrfonic]

I like Boogie a lot. But, this video made me sad. I believe he's sincere but it shows a lack of understanding. He doesn't really address anything that's happening. He just sets up a strawman argument in the beginning of the video and goes to town.

 

[Phamit]

What is GamerGate? My Twitter is full with tweets about This and now This ?

 

[Fliesen]

these kinds of #notAllGamers arguments (and a petition?! wtf!) totally derail the original discussion.

of course not ALL Russians are basically invading Ukraine, not ALL people from Israel and Gaza have issues with one another and not ALL voters of European right wing parties actually carry fascist / neo-nazi ideas.

... duh. that's kind of contributing nothing to the original issue.

 

[EBE]

i feel like i should know who anita sarkeesian and zoe quinn are but i dont. thats what this video is in response to, right? im confused.

 

[ferrasvansen]

I agree with him, the mainstream media will target us all with the same brush. This generalisation must stop, I'm utterly fed up with my friends suggesting cause I'm a gamer, I must be the stereotypical anti women, anti homosexual, gutting totting fps nut job. Well I'm not I'm an oldie guy with an open mind on everything and I rarely play fps.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I have no thoughts on the video. He said exactly what I would expect one of us to say if we were asked this question on the spot in a discussion with friends. He was talking from his heart though, but it didn't really tell me anything besides "people are overgeneralizing based on an outspoken minority of assholes". Gamers are simply the easy target right now. I'm sure comic people and other variation of nerds have had to deal with this, or are currently dealing with it as well it just isn't as big.

I feel like more research and proper arguments should've been made if you're making a video about a hot topic.

 

[ExVicis]

of course not ALL Russians are basically invading Ukraine, not ALL people from Israel and Gaza have issues with one another and not ALL voters of European right wing parties actually carry fascist / neo-nazi ideas.

...are you really trying to compare this to geo-politics or armed conflict?

 

[Mushroomer25]

I feel like this whole #Gamergate controversy could actually cause some change, if they just divorce the movement from the whole anti-SJW angle. There's a lot of anger about bad journalism, corruption, and real issues being wasted on shitting on Zoe Quinn & any other controversial woman in gaming. This movement is being swept up with the anti-feminist crowd, and making the message as a whole muddy & unattractive.

 

[Alienous]

i feel like i should know who anita sarkeesian and zoe quinn are but i dont. thats what this video is in response to, right? im confused.

You're likely doing more productive things with your life. Neither are particularly relevant other than for the controversies surrounding them.

 

[Jobbs]

thats what this video is in response to, right? im confused.

this is just the problem with the video -- it's in response to no one. it's in response to a premise he invents out of thin air.

I don't actually think boogie is a hateful person or a bigot or anything else, but this argument is a substance free wordshit that accomplishes nothing other than to dogwhistle a bunch of people who are those things. And if this is how boogie wants to get his views/money... I find that troubling. In any case, I thought about it for a minute and unsubbed.

 

[Dio]

Whether or not you agree with any given point swirling around the twitters and blogs and polygons and kotakus these days, I don't think anyone is actually arguing that "all gamers are bigots".

There are quite a few people on twitter right now saying shit like this constantly:

 

[DocSeuss]

I feel like what's going on in the gaming press is just an extension of what went on back in the "gamers are so entitled and disgusting" days. The words have changed, but the sentiment has changed: "we hate our gross audience."

Likewise, I feel like the 'conspiracy' thing hasn't really changed. We've had gamers complaining about conspiracies in the industry since the beginning of time. Journalists seem to view games one way, gamers seem to have a broader range of responses, so there's always been a tension there (which is probably what launched the 'we hate our audience' thing above).

I personally feel like there are a couple things that made this a gendered discussion, and I'd like to talk about why that is, but I feel that doing so might result in digressions I'm not interested in having.

Suffice it to say, I think we're seeing a deeper grudge/gripe/whatever, and it found a weak spot, and now it's boiling over.

The only reason I highlight this is because I feel that being aware of this is the only way to put a halt to it.

 

[Jobbs]

There are quite a few people on twitter right now saying shit like this constantly:

that's not an argument, that's just idiots on twitter yelling things.

 

[Fliesen]

I agree with him, the mainstream media will target us all with the same brush. This generalisation must stop, I'm utterly fed up with my friends suggesting cause I'm a gamer, I must be the stereotypical anti women, anti homosexual, gutting totting fps nut job. Well I'm not I'm an oldie guy with an open mind on everything and I rarely play fps.

to the contrary. See how you're feeling like an actual victim in this situation for the first time? - guess how the "other side" of the harassment feels.

Calling out "the gaming community" will also mean that those gamers who consider themselves open minded should do their part in not tolerating abusive behaviour.
if your reputation as a member of the gaming community is at stake, maybe you'll help weeding out the toxic members of said community.

also:

great job, Boogie. (big fan of yours, usually...)

...are you really trying to compare this to geo-politics or armed conflict?

it's an analogy. it's the first current issues that came to my head that weren't about social equality. You get the point. #notallXYZ does not contribute to a discussion because it's a tautology.

 

[kittens]

Oh jesus christ. His analysis is totally off the mark. Pretty disappointing, as I usually love his stuff.

 

[Novoitus]

these kinds of #notAllGamers arguments (and a petition?! wtf!) totally derail the original discussion.

of course not ALL Russians are basically invading Ukraine, not ALL people from Israel and Gaza have issues with one another and not ALL voters of European right wing parties actually carry fascist / neo-nazi ideas.

... duh. that's kind of contributing nothing to the original issue.

There should be as much concern that there are people making other people feel like this. The discussion should be all inclusive, and as much as you may argue that it is, it obviously isn't with people like boogie making videos like this.

And with that, you could argue that what you're doing now is contributing nothing to the original issue. You're ignoring or completely misunderstanding someone and continuing on with what you believe. That is not helpful. That is not discussion.

 

[Kemal86]

GamerGate is just #notallmen in a different set of clothes. He totally misses the mark on this one.

 

[Cookie18]

Could somebody sum up what this GamerGate stuff is or point me in the direction of somewhere that can?

 

[KJRS_1993]

This is definitely a notallmen kind of situation.

Of course not all people who play games are misogynist idiots. Anybody could have told you that.
The issue is, however that too many people are. Remember that Call of Duty guy (David Vonderhaar) and his Twitter feed after Treyarch rebalanced the Sniper Rifle?

People who respond to stuff like that are whom everybody (other gamers included) have a problem with.
Nobody is calling your Nan who plays Candy Crush a racist.

 

[wrowa]

Kind of feels like he's responding to something no one claimed to be true in the first place.

 

[HUELEN10]

i feel like i should know who anita sarkeesian and zoe quinn are but i dont. thats what this video is in response to, right? im confused.

Those 2 people in question are a part of this, but it's not just about them. Right now, it's more about just talking about corruption in the industry. There is a man on YouTube named the Internet Aristrocat, and he has made 3 videos in a series titled "Quinnspiracy Theory". whether you agree with him or not, I still think these 3 videos are worth a view, specially the 2nd one title "In-N-Out".

Not the whole story, but a decent primer on one of the sides of the issue to help one get up to speed.

 

[Daffy Duck]

So what is this all about and what's started it?

 

[Corpekata]

I feel like this whole #Gamergate controversy could actually cause some change, if they just divorce the movement from the whole anti-SJW angle. There's a lot of anger about bad journalism, corruption, and real issues being wasted on shitting on Zoe Quinn & any other controversial woman in gaming. This movement is being swept up with the anti-feminist crowd, and making the message as a whole muddy & unattractive.

It's not just being swept up, it was flat out STARTED by this crowd. It was tainted from the very beginning. Both hashtags have origins in 4chan where their "headquarters" threads base the story around someone as awful as theinternetaristocrat. There may be good ideas and good people in the movement but from the very beginning it has been serving an extremist agenda.

 

[ExVicis]

that's not an argument, that's just idiots on twitter yelling things.

But clearly at least someone somewhere is calling gamers bigots because of an identity thing. He point wasn't whether he was stupid on twitter, but that people re saying these things regardless.

 

[ferrasvansen]

to the contrary. See how you're feeling like an actual victim in this situation for the first time? - guess how the "other side" of the harassment feels.

Calling out "the gaming community" will also mean that those gamers who consider themselves open minded should do their part in not tolerating abusive behaviour.
if your reputation as a member of the gaming community is at stake, maybe you'll help weeding out the toxic members of said community.

also:

great job, Boogie. (big fan of yours, usually...)

Excuse me, every fanbase in history has a toxic element amongst them. I love how you suggest it's my fault lol. Seriously I do feel sorry for the people who suffer harassment in gaming, or movies or football, but you have zero right to try to send me on a guilt trip cause of it. You do not visualise the majority of games because of the minority which is exactly what your reply to me indicates you are doing.

 

[Plywood]

I thought this was going to be about denouncing the hate amongst the community and the industry, but instead it's all "nope, not me."

 

[Jobbs]

But clearly at least someone somewhere is calling gamers bigots because of an identity thing. He point wasn't whether he was stupid on twitter, but that people re saying these things regardless.

So his video is only in response to random people on twitter yelling dumb shit in 140 characters or less? Then why is he rallying the troops to talk back to the game companies that "we're not bigots"? Why did he specifically say the media is calling all gamers bigots? I ask you, what media of note is calling all gamers bigots, including old ladies playing candy crush or whatever the example is? Who exactly is doing this?

 

[DocSeuss]

GamerGate is just #notallmen in a different set of clothes. He totally misses the mark on this one.

What bugged me with not all men is that someone deliberately linked me to something claiming just that--all men were rapists, necrophiliacs, and killers obsessed with destroying women. So when I responded, of course I got lumped in with a bunch of people I totally agree with.

It's like "hey, I'm a normal dude, and I don't act like this, so I think calling me all these horrible things is off the mark."

"You horrible monster, you align yourself with #notallmen!"

 

[Mushroomer25]

It's not just being swept up, it was flat out STARTED by this crowd. It was tainted from the very beginning. Both hashtags have origins in 4chan where their "headquarters" threads base the story around someone as awful as theinternetaristocrat. There may be good ideas and good people in the movement but from the very beginning it has been serving an extremist agenda.

From the beginning, with the whole "Quinnspiracy" saga - I've seen two different narratives. There's "This is a problem because of feminism" and "This is a problem because of industry corruption". These two arguments have been happening in parallel for the past two weeks, and one of them is becoming the vocal face of the total outrage.

 

[ExVicis]

it's an analogy.

It's not a great one, there's a whole barrel of reasons why in any base comparison it doesn't work with this situation and I think in doing so you're either really over-inflating one issue or really really cheapening and showing a great deal of ignorance for another.

 

[Dio]

So his video is only in response to random people on twitter yelling dumb shit in 140 characters or less? Then why is he rallying the troops to talk back to the game companies that "we're not bigots"? Why did he specifically say the media is calling all gamers bigots? I ask you, what media of note is calling all gamers bigots, including old ladies playing candy crush or whatever the example is? Who exactly is doing this?

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php

http://kotaku.com/we-might-be-witnessing-the-death-of-an-identity-1628203079

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/192107/Opinion_Lets_retire_the_word_gamer.php

And all of these appeared around the same time. Gamer is a word that means neckbeard in their mom's basement, so obviously we've gotta retire the term.

 

[ExVicis]

So his video is only in response to random people on twitter yelling dumb shit in 140 characters or less? Then why is he rallying the troops to talk back to the game companies that "we're not bigots"? Why did he specifically say the media is calling all gamers bigots? I ask you, what media of note is calling all gamers bigots, including old ladies playing candy crush or whatever the example is? Who exactly is doing this?

Probably thought he could tie one part of a message into another. It's not cohesive or well thought out perhaps sure, but to say there aren't people suddenly taking to "gamers are bigots" thing wouldn't be correct.

 

[Jobbs]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php

http://kotaku.com/we-might-be-witnessing-the-death-of-an-identity-1628203079

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/192107/Opinion_Lets_retire_the_word_gamer.php

And all of these appeared around the same time. Gamer is a word that means neckbeard in their mom's basement, so obviously we've gotta retire the term.

Can you isolate the quotes from these articles where they call everyone who plays games, including candy crush, a bigot who hates women and minorities?

 

[Superflat]

The heart of the subject is made up of multiple storylines and buried under at least 6 layers of shit, so one point of view is never going to address every single issue out there. It's never going to be as simple as pointing at one thing as the main problem, which is why it leads to endless circular discussion. I don't believe that what's going on right now is the best way to go about change, because it's just a bunch of finger-pointing, as if whatever they're screaming about is going to solve the entire problem "if people would just listen and do exactly as I say".

There's never going to be a moment like that because that's not how people work. People of power and following need to present logical arguments, well thought-out articles that are supposed to persuade and make people feel included. Make people want to improve the gaming community and make it something to be proud of, with plenty of things that are already great and worthy of praise within the gaming community. Instead what we got are shock-and-awe campaigns and seemingly crazy people saying all sort of revolting things from both sides as if they're trying to grow the size of their army with hate propaganda. This is by the most "political" movement I've seen in games, complete with the slimy tactics that come with them.

Boogie's video is fine; he's voicing what affected him the most, and that's okay, just as people here can do the same.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

Disappointed in Boogie. Whatever his true intentions are, he should know better than to willfully attach his name to this thing. I don't think all #GamerGate supporters are anti-inclusive. But the roots of the "movement" and its loudest voices very clearly are. People are only making themselves look worse by digging their heels so deep into this particular controversy.

 

[Dio]

Can you isolate the quotes where these articles called everyone who plays games, including candy crush, a bigot who hates women and minorities?

You said "GAMER", not people who play games. According to these particular articles, "gamers" are dead and also are misogynist assholes who are a dying breed.

 

[kittens]

How are the mods handling discussion around this stuff? I know threads about Zoe Quinn were being closed, but what about gamergate stuff that don't center around her? I've got some articles that I've been interested in posting, but I've been unsure.

Disappointed in Boogie. Whatever his true intentions are, he should know better than to willfully attach his name to this thing. I don't think all #GamerGate supporters are anti-inclusive. But the roots of the "movement" and its loudest voices very clearly are. People are only making themselves look worse by digging their heels so deep into this particular controversy.

Yup. :-\

 

[Some Nobody]

What bugged me with not all men is that someone deliberately linked me to something claiming just that--all men were rapists, necrophiliacs, and killers obsessed with destroying women. So when I responded, of course I got lumped in with a bunch of people I totally agree with.

It's like "hey, I'm a normal dude, and I don't act like this, so I think calling me all these horrible things is off the mark."

"You horrible monster, you align yourself with #notallmen!"

It's the same thing with this. People are absolutely saying that all gamers are like this. I'm actually in disbelief at people in this thread that are saying otherwise--why do you think there are so many people who are obviously gamers saying things like "I don't see myself as a gamer"/"Don't call me a gamer". You distance yourself from the term so you can lump all the people who use it into a convenient scapegoat for social issues.

Edit:

Actually, this is way worse than that "notallmen" nonsense. At some point, if they weren't nuts, they actually had to acknowledge it. Here, they have to do no such thing--they can continue claiming that gamers are terrible, because you can "stop" being a gamer whenever you want. (Even though you actually can't, unless you quit playing video games.)

 

[Jobbs]

You said "GAMER", not people who play games. According to these particular articles, "gamers" are dead and also are misogynist assholes who are a dying breed.

so all this and we're just arguing over a definition? whether "gamer" means someone who plays games, or whether "gamer" means a douchebag?

who cares?

think I hate the internet. XD

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Could somebody sum up what this GamerGate stuff is or point me in the direction of somewhere that can?

I stopped paying attention around when Polytron got hacked, so I really only started noticing 'gamergate' a day ago and have no clue what it's focused on beyond evolving from the whole Zoe Quinn thing.

This entire thing unless you're a person of interest to the discussion seems to be a 'the only winning move is to not play' situation since all sorts of people are getting harassed or stalked over this huge clusterfuck and it's way too convoluted to even know what's happening properly. Like, apparently Al Jazeera of all sources just today wound up getting an unrelated games writer to quit her job from The Guardian, or something to that effect? Stuff is just confusing and while he's nice, I doubt Boogie has a much better grasp of what's happening.

 

[Corpekata]

You said "GAMER", not people who play games. According to these particular articles, "gamers" are dead and also are misogynist assholes who are a dying breed.

But boogie did. That's his point. Boogie is claiming these people are slandering EVERYONE that plays games.