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[balladofwindfishes]

Ganondorf doesn't have the same final smash as Captain Falcon.

Jet pack = Ponytail

She can randomly have a peanut gun too. It's Smash Bros, not the Holy Nintendo Canon® Museum.

So now we're animating a final smash, a special attack that not only requires new animations, but new mechanics, two normal attacks, awkwardly adding a gun that makes no sense.

You see why this doesn't make sense that she's a clone?

You're literally arguing that two similarly sized chimps, who have been partners since forever, can't be moveset clones of each other.

Because they can't be. Diddy isn't a chimp, he's a monkey, hence the tail moves that would prevent them from being full animation clones.

 

[Mysterious]

For as important as he is to the Zelda lore, Ganondorf is never developed much in any Zelda game, with nearly all of his humanizing qualities stemming from a few lines in The Wind Waker ("I coveted that wind, I suppose"). And his screen time, all things considered, is equally minimal. But aside from Majora's Mask, the Zelda series never had much in the way of a notable story, IMO.

I liked the plots of TP and SS. ;-;

 

[Hatchtag]

Same with Mewtwo, Pulse and Minum, and Toon Sheik.

I can understand the twins not getting in. Same with toon , especially now that Zelda and sheik are separate; though a Zelda/Tetra character would be neat.

I still have hope for Mewtwo and Dixie.

I do honestly think Tetra's the most likely Zelda newcomer. Only other picks that I could even see happening are Vaati (who hasn't had a game in years) and Impa.

 

[-Horizon-]

She's the one that look like elsa right?

Who's Elsa? Sounds like someone unimportant compared to Lightning.

Spoiler

joke

Why are you saying that like it's a joke, lightning is in the game, how else is the css gonna be a square instead of all the holes Hmm?

>.>

 

[Mysterious]

So now we're animating a final smash, a special attack that not only requires new animations, but new mechanics, two normal attacks, awkwardly adding a gun that makes no sense.

You see why this doesn't make sense that she's a clone?

Uh... Dr. Mario and Ganondorf already have differently animated Final Smashes.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

You're literally arguing that two similarly sized chimps, who have been partners since forever, can't be moveset clones of each other.

Diddy isn't a chimp.

Just sayin'.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Uh... Dr. Mario and Ganondorf already have differently animated Final Smashes.

Oh, you have a screenshot of doc's final smash? Can I see it?

 

[A Link to the Past]

I do honestly think Tetra's the most likely Zelda newcomer. Only other picks that I could even see happening are Vaati (who hasn't had a game in years) and Impa.

If it wasn't for his status as an AT, I'd say that Tingle is the top choice.

It'd be interesting if the clone corner gains Tetra as a clone of Toon Link or Sheik.

 

[BGBW]

I only remember seeing him with a sword on that GC presentation video.

Exactly, Melee's inclusion of the sword was a reference to a GCN promotional video rather than OoT. To say Ganondorf should have been a sword user back then makes as much sense as him being a Falcon clone.

Honestly, the biggest omission from his moveset isn't a sword, it's a ball of magic that can be volleyed back.

 

[powerdrain]

Dixie would need to have too many of Diddy's animations to be changed for her to be a full clone. Her using things like the popgun would make no sense for her though since she wasn't in DK64 anyway. I'm doubtful she'll be in at this point given the pictures and stuff we've got but I think her being in would be the cherry on top of the icing for me.

And if Dr. Mario is really in here's hoping his down B is something new, or at least his Melee moveset. I really wanted vanilla Mario to lose FLUDD this time around and have his tornado resemble his spin attack from Galaxy but oh well.

 

[Makai]

I believe Doc won't use Fluud either, but Doctor Tornado's animation is already in the game, then they can just borrow/modify Luigi's down aerial animation.

But Dixie needs so many changes to use Diddy's moves correctly, it doesn't make sense for her to be a clone. It's more effort to try and bend her around Diddy's moves than it is to just make a new character or add Alph or all the other things they could do instead of adding Dixie.

She needs new animations for her Jab and a couple specials. What are you talking about?

 

[RobotHaus]

I do honestly think Tetra's the most likely Zelda newcomer. Only other picks that I could even see happening are Vaati (who hasn't had a game in years) and Impa.

I don't think it's likely, but it would've worked better if they kept regular Zelda the same, then have Toon Zelda and Tetra as the split.

 

[VICTORsaurio]

I wish there was online cross-play, I have a friend who lives in another country who's gonna buy a 3DS for smash (he doesn't really want a Wii U). I'd love to play with him but I'm holding up until the Wii U release unless there is a good advantage at having both versions (which so far there isn't, right?)

 

[Neiteio]

I liked the plots of TP and SS. ;-;

That's cool you like it. Just offering my take.

I feel like they could do a lot more to establish the danger posed by the villain in each Zelda game. The only Zelda game where the world truly felt in danger was Majora's Mask.

 

[Zubz]

Same with Mewtwo, Pulse and Minum, and Toon Sheik.

I can understand the twins not getting in. Same with toon , especially now that Zelda and sheik are separate; though a Zelda/Tetra character would be neat.

I still have hope for Mewtwo and Dixie.

Agreed; they barely missed out on Brawl, and they're more relevant now than they were then. (Mewtwo being XY's bonus boss/Y Mega form being the first XY reveal/The fact (s)he has 2 megas at all, as well as Tropical Freeze, whereas Brawl was made when she wasn't in anything but Mario Baseball/Basketball). If Dr. Mario's back and they're not, then... well, it would still make sense because Dr. Mario's easier to make than the 2 of them combined, but it wouldn't feel right.

 

[Sponge]

So now we're animating a final smash, a special attack that not only requires new animations, but new mechanics, two normal attacks, awkwardly adding a gun that makes no sense.

Dixie does use a gun, actually.

 

[Pikma]

I wish there was online cross-play, I have a friend who lives in another country who's gonna buy a 3DS for smash (he doesn't really want a Wii U). I'd love to play with him but I'm holding up until the Wii U release unless there is a good advantage at having both versions (which so far there isn't, right?)

Soundtracks! At least to me.

 

[Mysterious]

Oh, you have a screenshot of doc's final smash? Can I see it?

Do you really think he's going to have that fireball attack as a FS? lol

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Dixie does use a gun, actually.

This didn't exist until long after the roster would have been finished

Do you really think he's going to have that fireball attack as a FS? lol

No, but an electric based one using the same animations, absolutely

No same series clone has ever had a new final smash. Ganondorf is the only clone in the entire history of smash with a unique final smash.

 

[A Link to the Past]

That's cool you like it. Just offering my take.

I feel like they could do a lot more to establish the danger posed by the villain in each Zelda game. The only Zelda game where the world truly felt in danger was Majora's Mask.

When I was a kid I felt danger in ALttP, since you were framed for kidnapping and soldiers were everywhere, including that tense and stressful chase that occurs if you talk to one of the two women in Kakariko Village

 

[NeonZ]

For a Zelda newcomer, I'm still hoping for Demise. In spite of being from Skyward Sword, he'd fit alongside the Twilight Princess characters without problems. Ghirahin has been confirmed as an Assist Trophy, while Demise is still nowhere.

 

[SmithnCo]

You're literally arguing that two similarly sized chimps, who have been partners since forever, can't be moveset clones of each other.

Dixie would pretty much need changes to at least her up-B, which wouldn't function much like Diddy's. I could see her other moves be variations, but she seems like she'd have to be a pseudo-clone like Lucas and Wolf at least.

 

[Azuran]

But I'm not even mad!

I'm actually starting to buy this theory:

I know this is the most insane thing you've ever heard, but what if Hyrule was the Mushroom Kingdom, but millions of years into the past?
So what would have happened was that the majority of life and culture in Hyrule was obliterated by some apocalyptic force, save for some primitive life-forms that would eventually evolve into the creatures that inhabit the Marioverse!

Discuss ramifications, or alternate theories as to the link itself, no pun intended.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.309675-What-if-Hyrule-WAS-the-Mushroom-Kingdom

 

[Sponge]

This didn't exist until long after the roster would have been finished

Which is why I feel Dixie probably should be DLC instead.

 

[A Link to the Past]

"Dixie doesn't use a gun" is a bad argument. Of Lucas' B moves, only one of them is something he can use in Mother 3. Why not let Dixie have a Peanut Popgun? Or perhaps give her Tiny Kong's Feather Gun?

 

[Kensho]

Well, it might be because Doc Louis fans prefer "playing" as Doc Louis over "not playing"?

Further, it shouldn't matter their role in the original game; Ganondorf was never playable in any video game before Melee, so shouldn't he be just a boss? Or Zelda be an assist character, since you never played as her? And we can see that other games don't relegate "assist" characters to assist positions - Isabelle is her own racer in Mario Kart 8 after all.

Yeah... it must suck to be one of the "Fans only of Doc, not even Little Mac, nor every other Nintendo character" so they can't play the game...

I didn't mean that either, I'm not saying that's a character selection rule, I'm not using it to rule them out, I'm saying the amount of people that actually want to play in a fighting game as them must be ridiculous and the role they have in the game now is perfect for what they can actually do in their games. When a character can fight instantly gains the potential to be a PC, with the others like Wii Fit Trainer it takes a meaningful role in the Nintendo history (Wii Fit sold a shit ton of Wiis) and a really crazy and talented man like Sakurai to make them fit in.

And I don't think the game needs another Animal Crossing or Punch Out rep anyway, the list has bigger names on the top of the Nintendo games waiting to get in. Maybe Isabelle as a Villager alt could've made it if she weren't an assist trophy.

 

[Cody_D165]

I wish there was online cross-play, I have a friend who lives in another country who's gonna buy a 3DS for smash (he doesn't really want a Wii U). I'd love to play with him but I'm holding up until the Wii U release unless there is a good advantage at having both versions (which so far there isn't, right?)

You get a physical 2-disc soundtrack for registering both games on Club Nintendo.

Also, you'll get to experience the different stages and get acquainted with characters before the Wii U version comes out.

 

[georly]

This didn't exist until long after the roster would have been finished

No, but an electric based one using the same animations, absolutely

No same series clone has ever had a new final smash. Ganondorf is the only clone in the entire history of smash with a unique final smash.

Just like greninja wasn't out until the roster was final, as well.

Just because you don't WANT sakurai to do something doesn't mean he can't or won't.

 

[Kouriozan]

I'm actually starting to buy this theory:



http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.309675-What-if-Hyrule-WAS-the-Mushroom-Kingdom

Even more crazier.

 

[BGBW]

The funniest thing about TP and danger is when

Spoiler

Hyrule Castle is imprisoned in twilight and the town folk really don't seem to care despite it being on their doorstep.

 

[Kinsei]

"Dixie doesn't use a gun" is a bad argument. Of Lucas' B moves, only one of them is something he can use in Mother 3. Why not let Dixie have a Peanut Popgun? Or perhaps give her Tiny Kong's Feather Gun?

Because she shouldn't be a clone. If she gets anything from Tiny it should be the ability to shrink.

 

[Mysterious]

This didn't exist until long after the roster would have been finished

Greninja didn't exist until the roster would have been finished. Wait what?


Sakurai wanted Dixie in the game. He has access to a lot of Nintendo's plans (he probably knew Rosalina was going to be in SM3DW). He knew of Greninja, and found out about him because he wanted an "X/Y Pokémon" in the game. He would've also had access to Retro's plans for Dixie/Cranky.

 

[Hispanic! At the Disco]

For as important as he is to the Zelda lore, Ganondorf is never developed much in any Zelda game, with nearly all of his humanizing qualities stemming from a few lines in The Wind Waker ("I coveted that wind, I suppose"). And his screen time, all things considered, is equally minimal. But aside from Majora's Mask, the Zelda series never had much in the way of a notable story, IMO.

I so badly want Zelda U to be about Hyrule's beginnings and to be basically a story about Ganondorf.

In my mind, I like to think Zelda U's story is that Link and Ganondorf are brothers who are always at ends with each other. Link always gets what he wants and all the attention, and Ganondorf is always left with the short end of the stick. Ganon runs away and becomes ruler over his own newly found people and builds an army against Hyrule so that too may be under his rule and in the end they will become his own people.

I doubt it, but at the very least I'd like a Ganondorf origin story! Like the first Ganondorf as we have had our first Link and first Zelda (well first hylian Link and Zelda).

 

[Toxi]

I'm actually starting to buy this theory:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.309675-What-if-Hyrule-WAS-the-Mushroom-Kingdom

 

[Fireblend]

This didn't exist until long after the roster would have been finished

No, but an electric based one using the same animations, absolutely

No same series clone has ever had a new final smash. Ganondorf is the only clone in the entire history of smash with a unique final smash.

Well, XY hadn't come out when they were deciding on the roster either and Greninja is in

 

[Azuran]

Even more crazier.

Damn, Marvel has nothing on this.

 

[SmithnCo]

Even more crazier.

Deepest lore.

Spoiler

What the fuck

 

[Ryce]

"Dixie doesn't use a gun" is a bad argument. Of Lucas' B moves, only one of them is something he can use in Mother 3. Why not let Dixie have a Peanut Popgun? Or perhaps give her Tiny Kong's Feather Gun?

All of Lucas' special moves come from his own game, though. He's meant to represent all of Mother 3. The Peanut Popgun and Feather Bow don't appear in DKC2 or DKC3.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Yeah... it must suck to be one of the "Fans only of Doc, not even Little Mac, nor every other Nintendo character" so they can't play the game...

I didn't mean that either, I'm not saying that's a character selection rule, I'm not using it to rule them out, I'm saying the amount of people that actually want to play in a fighting game as them must be ridiculous and the role they have in the game now is perfect for what they can actually do in their games. When a character can fight instantly gains the potential to be a PC, with the others like Wii Fit Trainer it takes a meaningful role in the Nintendo history (Wii Fit sold a shit ton of Wiis) and a really crazy and talented man like Sakurai to make them fit in.

And I don't think the game needs another Animal Crossing or Punch Out rep anyway, the list has bigger names on the top of the Nintendo games waiting to get in. Maybe Isabelle as a Villager alt could've made it if she weren't an assist trophy.

Wait, what? Please make sure that you're not trying to call Doc Louis fans irrational because "oh, Little Mac's in the game, stop whining!" Did you say "shutup Ridley fans, you have Samus! Twice!" or "Shutup Dixie fans, just play as Diddy!"?

 

[Sponge]

"Dixie doesn't use a gun" is a bad argument. Of Lucas' B moves, only one of them is something he can use in Mother 3. Why not let Dixie have a Peanut Popgun? Or perhaps give her Tiny Kong's Feather Gun?

If she ends up being DLC, I could see her getting a reskin that's basically the Bubblegum gun.

 

[Hatchtag]

I so badly want Zelda U to be about Hyrule's beginnings and to be basically a story about Ganondorf.

In my mind, I like to think Zelda U's story is that Link and Ganondorf are brothers who are always at ends with each other. Link always gets what he wants and all the attention, and Ganondorf is always left with the short end of the stick. Ganon runs away and becomes ruler over his own newly found people and builds an army against Hyrule so that too may be under his rule and in the end they will become his own people.

I doubt it, but at the very least I'd like a Ganondorf origin story! Like the first Ganondorf as we have had our first Link and first Zelda (well first hylian Link and Zelda).

I kind of think Zelda U will be the return of Ganondorf to the series, he's been absent for a while now.

 

[Kyzer]

This didn't exist until long after the roster would have been finished

No, but an electric based one using the same animations, absolutely

No same series clone has ever had a new final smash. Ganondorf is the only clone in the entire history of smash with a unique final smash.

1) how are you gonna establish a pattern with final smashes if they only existed in one game ?? "the only clone in the entire history of smash with a unique final smash" ... final smashes didnt exist in the entire history of smash!

2) greninja didnt exist to the general consumer until long after the final roster would have been finished...sakurais not exactly out of the loop of development at nintendo

 

[NotLiquid]

This didn't exist until long after the roster would have been finished

DKCTF was first shown during E3 2013, over a year before Smash Bros 3DS finished development and the game would probably be known internally for longer than that (stage inclusions like Sonic Lost World prove that development cycles don't really matter either when you're juggling content inclusion from internal properties).

It is also known that somewhere late in development, Lucina was turned into her own clone fighter rather than a Marth alt.

Why is it impossible to surmise that Dixie could have been granted her own roster slot late in development when clones aren't very high effort?

(For the record, I am mostly playing devil's advocate as I don't expect Dixie to be in due to Diddy having her color palette)

 

[The Xtortionist]

"Dixie doesn't use a gun" is a bad argument. Of Lucas' B moves, only one of them is something he can use in Mother 3. Why not let Dixie have a Peanut Popgun? Or perhaps give her Tiny Kong's Feather Gun?

Dixie has a gumball popgun in Tropical Freeze

 

[BGBW]

Diddy and Dixie didn't even play the same in the country games.

Honestly, Dixie would work better as a smash DK clone replacing his fists with her hair. At least then you don't have to worry about invisible tail attacks.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Even more crazier.

Wooooooow

 

[Macka]

Wait, what? Please make sure that you're not trying to call Doc Louis fans irrational because "oh, Little Mac's in the game, stop whining!" Did you say "shutup Ridley fans, you have Samus! Twice!" or "Shutup Dixie fans, just play as Dixie!"?

To be fair, it is a different situation. Little Mac has just joined in this iteration. I personally feel adding a second rep from that (niche) series would be too much at this point.

Meanwhile, Metroid and Donkey Kong only got second reps in Brawl, and in Metroid's case it's the same damn character.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Just like greninja wasn't out until the roster was final, as well.

Just because you don't WANT sakurai to do something doesn't mean he can't or won't.

It's not a matter of what I want or not because I don't care either way. I'm just thinking logically, and given what we know about the effort clones generally get in this series. If Dixie was getting new attacks that Diddy uses his tail for, a new up special using her hair, a new final smash using her hair, she wouldn't even be a clone at that point and would be less of a clone than Toon Link, and with her series, and that messes up the entire CSS. The clones in the clone corner are almost certainly just old alt costumes turned playable characters with maybe one or two minor animation changes. Dixie doesn't fit with them.

 

[The Captain]

Greninja brings nothing to Smash, cut 'em

Isabelle brings something to Smash because everyone likes her, like, almost universally. I've literally never ever EVER seen anyone say "ugh, Isabelle." She is probably one of the most endearing Nintendo characters and she has existed for barely one year.

I like Isabelle, but I think there are some people out there who like her too much.

You're literally arguing that two similarly sized chimps, who have been partners since forever, can't be moveset clones of each other.

They're not chimps!

 

[Toxi]

Deepest lore.

Spoiler

What the fuck

Mama Robotnik never ceases to amaze.