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[Messofanego]

I'm sorry, I know this is somewhat off-topic, but BlastProcessing's post #9797 got me thinking about Computer Gaming World and how Jeff Green used to write in his editorials about his daughter playing games, which I think was pretty unique (not his daughter playing games, but someone actually writing about being a dad rather a game-playing daughter). I was curious what happened with some of the writers from CGW and found that all of the issues are available online as PDFs. I found an issue from 1999 with a racy cover (which I definitely remember having and hiding from my mom), and was curious what the reaction was in the following issue. I started going through that issue, and found this ad (apologies for pages not lining up, I just did a print screen and put it in MSPaint):

At first I thought it was Intel advertising, which would have been hilarious, but sadly, it was from a company that built computers. But see? Even 15 years ago, gamers were being mocked!

lol

 

[partyphone]

It is truly sickening that someone would sit there and write that stuff to that woman. I don't think it really has anything to do with gamergate though. Crazies gonna crazy.

gamergate has created an environment where this sort of behavior and thrive and spread. you can wave your hands and go "this is just how the internet is" but that ignores the very real effects this has on women in gaming industry and women who want to get into gaming industr .

 

[VibratingDonkey]

Sometimes I regret following @a_man_in_black
On occasion the stuff he links just breaks my mind. Like this. You don't know her, but she's probably lying about death and rape threats and doxxing herself for the attention? What hjfthtyjy

There's a shit ton of bullshit spewing out of ggate right now.
It's about ethics.

I'm sorry, I know this is somewhat off-topic, but BlastProcessing's post #9797 got me thinking about Computer Gaming World and how Jeff Green used to write in his editorials about his daughter playing games, which I think was pretty unique (not his daughter playing games, but someone actually writing about being a dad rather a game-playing daughter). I was curious what happened with some of the writers from CGW and found that all of the issues are available online as PDFs. I found an issue from 1999 with a racy cover (which I definitely remember having and hiding from my mom), and was curious what the reaction was in the following issue. I started going through that issue, and found this ad (apologies for pages not lining up, I just did a print screen and put it in MSPaint):

At first I thought it was Intel advertising, which would have been hilarious, but sadly, it was from a company that built computers. But see? Even 15 years ago, gamers were being mocked!

Oh geez. Thanks for this.

 

[Beefy]

What's the growing that the non-GG side has to do?

Both sides have their fair share of twats. Yes I haven't seen any death threats from the anti GG yet. It's basically giving people (on each side) a motive to abuse some one, which is sad.

 

[tonysidaway]

Sometimes I regret following @a_man_in_black
On occasion the stuff he links just breaks my mind. Like this. You don't know her, but she's probably lying about death and rape threats and doxxing herself for the attention? What hjfthtyjy

There's a shit ton of bullshit spewing out of ggate right now.
It's about ethics.

I nominate Mitchell and Webb's "Are We The Baddies?" as the official comedy sketch of Gamergate. These people seem either exceptionally naive or willingly self deluding. Get out, idiots! Get out before somebody is actually killed!

 

[JackDT]

"Mundane Matt here. Just want to reiterate that GamerGate is not about harassment, and to prove this I spent a large portion of this very video suggesting that Brianna was known to use sockpuppets and brown 8chan and so faking a death threat would not be out of character. Just presenting the facts -- you decide for yourself. Once again, definitely not about harassment."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2nCM4c9PpY

 

[JesseEwiak]

"Mundane Matt here. Just want to reiterate that GamerGate is not about harassment, and to prove this I spent a large portion of this very video suggesting that Brianna was known to use sockpuppets and brown 8chan and so faking a death threat would not be out of character. Just presenting the facts -- you decide for yourself. Once again, definitely not about harassment."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2nCM4c9PpY

Yup. I'm not surprised the conservative movement latched on to #Gamergate. They both use the same, "we're just asking questions" dodge to avoid any responsibility.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Both sides have their fair share of twats. Yes I haven't seen any death threats from the anti GG yet. It's basically giving people (on each side) a motive to abuse some one, which is sad.

GG has gone completely off the rails on twitter. I really can't believe the hashtag is still going so strong. There is no clear message, no leaders, nothing of substance to really be mad about. Just a bunch of angry people on both sides taking pot shots at each other and some reasonable people getting tossed in the fray. It's getting fucking weird.

 

[MrCunningham]

Anita Sarkeesian is not a journalist. Her entire profession has literally nothing to do with games journalism or whether or not she's "ethical" in her profession.

She is a pundit that focuses on the subject of feminism in media. Her women in gaming series is just another avenue to express her views on media as a whole. There's nothing really wrong with what she is doing with her editorial pieces, but in an industry that caters to a repetitively young audience, her opinions are sadly going to be met with a lot of highly volatile responses.

Most of the "gaming press" that do weblog/ youtube styled editorials are nothing more than just pundits giving out their own personal opinions on the state of the industry in a talking head style. There really aren't many actual journalists when it comes to gaming coverage, and even then, that line gets kind of blurred between controlled advertising.

At this point, I don't even really know what GamerGate is about at this point. Probably the reason why I have been avoiding this thread and this is my first and only post in it so far.
Every time I hear about #GamerGate, topics seem to jump between campaigns to block companies like intel and Nvidia (I don't understand this one), ethics of "game journalism", insert-group-name-here not being represented well enough, or some nonsense over the word "gamer". To me there doesn't seem to be any one focal point, and I feel like people are just using this as a launchpad to push their own agendas and I don't even know if there is a single focal point to the madness. The GamerGate feels convoluted to me most of the time.The pro/ anti GG stance feels like a metagame, and the death threats people are receiving over Twitter is a real low point of humanity.

 

[jbug617]

I really haven't followed this but my twitter is blowing up with what happened tonight.

 

[bonercop]

Both sides have their fair share of twats. Yes I haven't seen any death threats from the anti GG yet. It's basically giving people (on each side) a motive to abuse some one, which is sad.

No they don't. There is no GG equivalent. There is no opposing force here that is also organizing harassment campaigns and coming up with insane freeper-level conspiracy theories. This false-equivalence has no basis in reality.

 

[FlyinJ]

Has this been posted yet:

https://storify.com/alexlifschitz/escapist-drama

The Escapist reporter found all of his developers on 4chan for the "unbiased" article asking a cross section of male game devs what they thought about gamergate?

What in the hell? This is reaching hilarious levels of absurdity.

 

[Theanine3D]

I really haven't followed this but my twitter is blowing up with what happened tonight.

This is probably why:

Brianna Wu has received some really disgusting death/rape threats via Twitter.
https://twitter.com/Spacekatgal/status/520739878993420290

 

[kyoya]

Step back from this for a moment. All of this has its origins in video games......fucking video games. Very surreal that a violent and threatening group comes from a hobby involving interactive graphics and sounds on a TV screen.

 

[Beefy]

No they don't. There is no GG equivalent. There is no opposing force here that is also organizing harassment campaigns and coming up with insane freeper-level conspiracy theories. This false-equivalence has no basis in reality.

A person acting a twat (idiot) comes in many forms, not just crazy harassment stuff. I think it is about time Twitter delete the hastag.

 

[jetjevons]

That's real?!

 

[docbon]

It is truly sickening that someone would sit there and write that stuff to that woman. I don't think it really has anything to do with gamergate though. Crazies gonna crazy.

Bruh

In the tweet immediately before it, she said she was doxxed by 8chan. Then this dude posts her address after his death / rape threats.

 

[FlyinJ]

Step back from this for a moment. All of this has its origins in video games......fucking video games. Very surreal that a violent and threatening group comes from a hobby involving interactive graphics and sounds on a TV screen.

I know, right?

It's almost as crazy as two massive countries altering their entire government system because of some ink blotched on some crushed up and dried wood

 

[Orayn]

I checked on 8chan, someone actually did post an address. People were mad about it but it was still there last I looked. Their moderation is probably pretty lax, so who knows how long it might take for them to delete it...

 

[Suzushiiro]

I've seen doxxing, threats, and general shitheaded behavior from both the "pro-gg" and "anti-gg"/"SJW" crowds. Boogie being doxxed was discussed in this very thread, and here's an example of a pro-GGer being threatened if you need it- https://twitter.com/GGfeminist/status/520754494313754624

That said, it doesn't help to respond to the shitty people in your group being pointed out by pulling a No True Scotsman and saying that that person is either a false flag or said shitty behavior was made up. Just admit that some people on your side are assholes, make it clear that you don't stand by their actions, and do what you can to stop them.

But any group/movement that doesn't have a strong leadership/organizational structure attached to it is inevitably going to have a mix of decent people and complete shitheads. I don't think it's any more fair to judge everyone who associates with GG by its worst members than it is to do the same to Islam, black people, men, feminists, and so on.

This especially applies when we're talking about anonymous or effectively anonymous people on the internet. I can tab over to TweetDeck right now and tweet "Jews did 9/11 #gamergate #notyourshield #yesallwomen #feminism". Does that suddenly make GG and feminism anti-semetic truther movements?

 

[BigDes]

I know, right?

It's almost as crazy as two massive countries altering their entire government system because of some ink blotched on some crushed up and dried wood

You're equating treaties between countries with video games? Really?

 

[Orayn]

This especially applies when we're talking about anonymous or effectively anonymous people on the internet. I can tab over to TweetDeck right now and tweet "Jews did 9/11 #gamergate #notyourshield #yesallwomen #feminism". Does that suddenly make GG and feminism anti-semetic truther movements?

You're right that the overall pattern of behavior from people who identify with the movement is the important part. That still doesn't paint a very flattering picture of GG, IMO. Plenty of their "normal" supporters are still downright nasty.

 

[JackDT]

Has this been posted yet:

https://storify.com/alexlifschitz/escapist-drama

The Escapist reporter found all of his developers on 4chan for the "unbiased" article asking a cross section of male game devs what they thought about gamergate?

What in the hell? This is reaching hilarious levels of absurdity.

One of the developers is literally the guy who is the main person organizing the boycott campaigns against all the gaming sites. I can hardly think of someone worse for a cross section.

 

[kyoya]

I know, right?

It's almost as crazy as two massive countries altering their entire government system because of some ink blotched on some crushed up and dried wood

Really? You're comparing government to a bunch of people sitting in front of workstations hammering out code to create interactive entertainment so it can sell in Best Buy?

Oh Cartman.

 

[Talon]

Intellectually dishonest "movement" continues to be pretty fucking horrible.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[Oersted]

Both sides have their fair share of twats. Yes I haven't seen any death threats from the anti GG yet. It's basically giving people (on each side) a motive to abuse some one, which is sad.

The both sides stuff gets boring. One side has delivered nothing substantial so far besides misogyny and conspiracy theories. They have to step their game up to make the both sides "argument" work.

 

[SwissLion]

I've seen doxxing, threats, and general shitheaded behavior from both the "pro-gg" and "anti-gg"/"SJW" crowds. Boogie being doxxed was discussed in this very thread, and here's an example of a pro-GGer being threatened if you need it- https://twitter.com/GGfeminist/status/520754494313754624

That said, it doesn't help to respond to the shitty people in your group being pointed out by pulling a No True Scotsman and saying that that person is either a false flag or said shitty behavior was made up. Just admit that some people on your side are assholes, make it clear that you don't stand by their actions, and do what you can to stop them.

But any group/movement that doesn't have a strong leadership/organizational structure attached to it is inevitably going to have a mix of decent people and complete shitheads. I don't think it's any more fair to judge everyone who associates with GG by its worst members than it is to do the same to Islam, black people, men, feminists, and so on.

This especially applies when we're talking about anonymous or effectively anonymous people on the internet. I can tab over to TweetDeck right now and tweet "Jews did 9/11 #gamergate #notyourshield #yesallwomen #feminism". Does that suddenly make GG and feminism anti-semetic truther movements?

1) Nope. Assuming you're still pushing the "Both sides suck!" argument, "People who disagree with Gamergate" are not a "Side". We do not have to take responsibility for random people handling their completely justified anger at this vicious hate mob extremely poorly. We are not spreading lies about these people that attackers are using as justification. We are not creating a culture of persecution complexes and conspiracies that gives these people an excuse to harass anyone. We are not propping up actively hateful public figureheads who make these harassers feel comfortable.

2) We're not judging Gamergate solely by its worst members. We are judging them by their founding members, their loudest members, their most influential members, their most publicly approved of members, their concerted actions as a group, and their most commonly shared attitudes and beliefs.

And hey, even if we were generalising Gamers by their worst elements, it's still not equivalent to those other things and it's shitty to compare them!

3) Again, (most of) what is going on in this thread isn't just picking out some obscure tweet and treating it as representative of the whole. Tweets that get picked out are often examples of larger trends. You put something like that in the tag you'll get jumped on as "Shill! False Flag!" immediately, because despite barely doing anything to actually police the behaviour of its members, Gamergate sure is swift and merciless in policing anything that will make them look bad.

 

[komplanen]

Has this been posted yet:

https://storify.com/alexlifschitz/escapist-drama

The Escapist reporter found all of his developers on 4chan for the "unbiased" article asking a cross section of male game devs what they thought about gamergate?

What in the hell? This is reaching hilarious levels of absurdity.

I guess Escapist thought they could get a few page hits if they side with #GamerGate but didn't exactly think it through. What a shameful "interview".

 

[JackDT]

I've seen doxxing, threats, and general shitheaded behavior from both the "pro-gg" and "anti-gg"/"SJW" crowds. Boogie being doxxed was discussed in this very thread, and here's an example of a pro-GGer being threatened if you need it- https://twitter.com/GGfeminist/status/520754494313754624

That said, it doesn't help to respond to the shitty people in your group being pointed out by pulling a No True Scotsman and saying that that person is either a false flag or said shitty behavior was made up. Just admit that some people on your side are assholes, make it clear that you don't stand by their actions, and do what you can to stop them.

I agree that it's not fair to take one person as representative of a group.

But that's not the part that freaks me out. It's the tons of "she's a known liar, she probably did it to herself so she could publicize her shitty game" stuff that follows. All over twitter and comment threads.

MundaneMatt already has a video response: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=133834619&highlight=#post133834619

I sincerely hope that 'anti-gg' aren't doing this to that GGfeminist person.

 

[FlyinJ]

Really? You're comparing government to a bunch of people sitting in front of workstations hammering out code to create interactive entertainment so it can sell in Best Buy?

Oh Cartman.

Sorry, I was referring to the fact that the medium itself doesn't matter- be it books, movies, etc. All of them can elicit very strong reactions.

 

[dLMN8R]

Has this been posted yet:

https://storify.com/alexlifschitz/escapist-drama

The Escapist reporter found all of his developers on 4chan for the "unbiased" article asking a cross section of male game devs what they thought about gamergate?

What in the hell? This is reaching hilarious levels of absurdity.

Jesus christ I saw a few people upset with The Escapist today but I had no idea just how awful the articles they published were.

 

[FoneBone]

Alex Macris defends his Escapist piece.

 

[outunderthestars]

Alex Macris defends his Escapist piece.

God, I really dislike reading twitter conversations/chatlogs.

Quick summary?

 

[Oersted]

Sorry, I was referring to the fact that the medium itself doesn't matter- be it books, movies, etc. All of them can elicit very strong reactions.

It depends on the audience. We won't see any rape threats over a harsh critic of a Michael Buble CD. But a harsh critic of a Marvel movie? Probably more likely getting those.

 

[komplanen]

God, I really dislike reading twitter conversations/chatlogs.

Quick summary?

Yeah that's painful to read. So poorly formatted I couldn't get past first couple of lines.

 

[Oersted]

God, I really dislike reading twitter conversations/chatlogs.

Quick summary?

"I am simply presenting a collection of views and allowing people to judge for themselves."

and people can critize them in the forum, thats what it is for. If I got it right besides the formatting.

 

[MYeager]

God, I really dislike reading twitter conversations/chatlogs.

Quick summary?

Someone didn't like that he gave a platform for some pro-GG folks, a few of whom have harassed or encouraged such behavior, and questioned him about his responsibility in giving them a platform.

I kind of see the guy from the escapists point though, he was providing a space for many people involved in the issue to have a say so that people could try and get an idea of the variety of different opinions in this mess.

 

[FoneBone]

God, I really dislike reading twitter conversations/chatlogs.

Quick summary?

Yeah, sorry, I shouldn't do that

Gist is that he thinks he's just giving voice to a wide spectrum of views. Never mind that the thing is full of leading questions and distortions, and that the pro-GG viewpoints he legitimizes include those of avowed misogynists and rape apologists.

Read the link FlyinJ posted above if you haven't already. https://storify.com/alexlifschitz/escapist-drama

Funny thing is that for all his pro-GamerGate posturing, Macris has been attacked on Twitter for OKing the post-publication edits to the piece.

 

[Theanine3D]

The fact that #GG's using civil rights images as part of their propaganda kind of irks me.

The cognitive dissonance in GG's use of famous MLK quotes is astoundingly gross, and also incredibly ironic.

If MLK Jr. was alive today, he would be promptly told to STFU by #GG and "stop pushing political agendas." They'd crucify him.

 

[SwissLion]

Someone didn't like that he gave a platform for some pro-GG folks, a few of whom have harassed or encouraged such behavior, and questioned him about his responsibility in giving them a platform.

I kind of see the guy from the escapists point though, he was providing a space for many people involved in the issue to have a say so that people could try and get an idea of the variety of different opinions in this mess.

There's a point at which you have to consider "Hey, should I let this guy well known for participating actively in the IRC channel that involved people trying to get Zoe Quinn to commit suicide spread blatant lies and misinformation, that might, Ooh I don't know, legitimise the worst aspects of this movement, in a prominent spot on my website?"

The answer was no. It's since been removed, thankfully, but it should not have ever been considered. They should have done some research and maybe reconsidered giving borderline criminals a platform to justify themselves.

 

[Quote]

If you're in this thread being passive and hand wavy, you're not as slick as you think you are.

 

[MYeager]

There's a point at which you have to consider "Hey, should I let this guy well known for participating actively in the IRC channel that involved people trying to get Zoe Quinn to commit suicide spread blatant lies and misinformation, that might, Ooh I don't know, legitimise the worst aspects of this movement, in a prominent spot on my website?"

The answer was no. It's since been removed, thankfully, but it should not have ever been considered. They should have done some research and maybe reconsidered giving borderline criminals a platform to justify themselves.

Absolutely. I think the idea was good the article has a ton of problems, from how it was laid out, the questions asked and the sources used with little to no research or follow up questions about their actions. I mean some of those questions were just....something else man.

I don't see a problem with a website presenting a variety of opinions on a subject, but yeah, maybe verify the sources before letting some spite filled hate machine use your website as a soapbox to shout from.

I don't even get why they'd continue feeding the trolls by publishing it anyway.

 

[outunderthestars]

Yeah, sorry, I shouldn't do that

Gist is that he thinks he's just giving voice to a wide spectrum of views. Never mind that the thing is full of leading questions and distortions, and that the pro-GG viewpoints he legitimizes include those of avowed misogynists and rape apologists.

Read the link FlyinJ posted above if you haven't already. https://storify.com/alexlifschitz/escapist-drama

Funny thing is that for all his pro-GamerGate posturing, Macris has been attacked on Twitter for OKing the post-publication edits to the piece.

That storify link was most helpful. I find this whole mess to be really gross . I can't believe that people are being threatened and harassed over video games.

Kudos to the media outlets that are choosing to ignore the GG people.

Also: never heard of Frank Cifaldi before. Now I am off to read some of his stuf .

 

[FlyinJ]

Someone didn't like that he gave a platform for some pro-GG folks, a few of whom have harassed or encouraged such behavior, and questioned him about his responsibility in giving them a platform.

I kind of see the guy from the escapists point though, he was providing a space for many people involved in the issue to have a say so that people could try and get an idea of the variety of different opinions in this mess.

The problem is that the article was titled "Game Developers Give Their Views On Gamergate", and not "Game Developers Who Support Gamergate Tell Why They Do".

The article was made to look like an unbiased survey of a spectrum of developers giving their views on the subject. The actual article are all developers from 4chan who support gamergate.

 

[MYeager]

The problem is that the article was titled "Game Developers Give Their Views On Gamergate", and not "Game Developers Who Support Gamergate Tell Why They Do".

The article was made to look like an unbiased survey of a spectrum of developers giving their views on the subject. The actual article are all developers from 4chan who support gamergate.

Damion Schubert from Origin was one of the interviewed parties and he certainly did not support GamerGate. I thought his response was great.

 

[BanGy.nz]

Every few days a new horrible event happens that makes everyone feel terrible. When and how does all this end?

 

[Orayn]

Every few days a new horrible event happens that makes everyone feel terrible. When and how does all this end?

Judging by their actions? GG's goal is to remove nonstraight, nonwhite, nonmale people as well as any form of social commentary from video games and video games media.

If you ask GG they'll say when Kotaku, RPS, NeoGAF, and several other sites are all shut down, Zoe Quinn is in federal prison, and the holiness of the gamer identity is forever unquestioned.

The real answer, hopefully, is when their numbers dwindle and people see them for what they really are and stop putting up with this shit.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Has this been posted yet:

https://storify.com/alexlifschitz/escapist-drama

The Escapist reporter found all of his developers on 4chan for the "unbiased" article asking a cross section of male game devs what they thought about gamergate?

What in the hell? This is reaching hilarious levels of absurdity.

This is absolutely appalling. Just outright deception and attempted legitimization of some of the worst people involved in this mess. More people should know about what the Escapist did. This deserves to be called out and shamed on any gaming site that actually cares about ethics.

 

[VibratingDonkey]

The problem is that the article was titled "Game Developers Give Their Views On Gamergate", and not "Game Developers Who Support Gamergate Tell Why They Do".

The article was made to look like an unbiased survey of a spectrum of developers giving their views on the subject. The actual article are all developers from 4chan who support gamergate.

Macris was open to the idea of sourcing from 4chan, but I don't know if they actually did. I know that they didn't source all of them from 4chan though. Damion Schubert's in there. And if you want "a broad spectrum of opinions" then people like Daniel Vavra and Brad Wardell are obvious as they've been quite openly in support of ggate.

A lot of mistakes were definitely made on The Escapist's part though. They've addressed/admitted like four of them at this point.

 

[outunderthestars]

This is absolutely appalling. Just outright deception and attempted legitimization of some of the worst people involved in this mess. More people should know about what the Escapist did. This deserves to be called out and shamed on any gaming site that actually cares about ethics.

Seems like a mistake in judgment combined with poor research into exactly who they were interviewing. Not really sure we should be shaming journalists for writing a piece that we find distasteful.