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[BloodMoney]

They should know when its the same demo from pre-E3, its been out for over 6 months.

Nah bro, no accountability. I mean, if you are a game journalist, what point is there in keeping up with the industry and knowing what you play. Furthermore, there isn't even a point in having any technical understanding of video games. Just fly by the seat of your pants, and write/talk about your feels. That how it works.

 

[DirgeExtinction]

You say this as if every member of the press should be aware of exactly what demos have been shown somewhere in the world, and when. This guy went to the Paris Game Show, and it was his first chance to get hands on with the game, so he gave his impressions.

Also, I'm not aware of a demo from this game showing someone on your team dying.

He probably meant the Constable. The player probably thought he was in your group.

 

[IndoAssassin]

Hopefully this game doesn't have to sell a tonne to break even. Hopefully they get a chance to make another game.

 

[Markitron]

Nah bro, no accountability. I mean, if you are a game journalist, what point is there in keeping up with the industry and knowing what you play. Furthermore, there isn't even a point in having any technical understanding of video games. Just fly by the seat of your pants, and write/talk about your feels. That how it works.

I have been looking for this gif for a while. It's fucking unbelievable that these morons are employed as games journalists. Greg 'New Zealand is in north-east Europe' Miller isn't much better.

 

[get2sammyb]

I've played the demo and the problem with it largely comes down to the fact that it's literally a ten minute (at most) slice from a very early section of what's likely to be a six to eight hour game, possibly more.

I agree with Bruiser Bear that Sony/RAD shouldn't be showing it if they don't think it's indicative of the game, but I remember the inFAMOUS demos being similarly limited and raising near identical concerns. I think this is just the way Sony's doing things now.

I will say that the Thermite Rifle gave me a Resistance vibe, and I certainly can imagine where they're taking things. I could see later encounters seeing you fighting humans and half-breeds, and giving you this imaginitive arsenal to play with.

That's the impression the demo gave me, but obviously I'm making assumptions based on where I felt it was going. I'll be disappointed if it doesn't build into that, though...

 

[msdstc]

I've played the demo and the problem with it largely comes down to the fact that it's literally a ten minute (at most) slice from a very early section of what's likely to be a six to eight hour game, possibly more.

I agree with Bruiser Bear that Sony/RAD shouldn't be showing it if they don't think it's indicative of the game, but I remember the inFAMOUS demos being similarly limited and raising near identical concerns. I think this is just the way Sony's doing things now.

I will say that the Thermite Rifle gave me a Resistance vibe, and I certainly can imagine where they're taking things. I could see later encounters seeing you fighting humans and half-breeds, and giving you this imaginitive arsenal to play with.

That's the impression the demo gave me, but obviously I'm making assumptions based on where I felt it was going. I'll be disappointed if it doesn't build into that, though...

I loved the thermite gun, and the gunplay felt really tight. The problem was that every 30 to 40 seconds you'd go into some sort of cinematic, which isn't gonna fly if that's the direction they're going. Pretty much everything they've said indicates that's what they're going for.

 

[RoboPlato]

I loved the thermite gun, and the gunplay felt really tight. The problem was that every 30 to 40 seconds you'd go into some sort of cinematic, which isn't gonna fly if that's the direction they're going. Pretty much everything they've said indicates that's what they're going for.

It's actually not what they're going for, which is why this demo and them having to cut the E3 stage footage from 11 minutes to 2 has hurt the showings of this game. In the GI issue about the game they explicitly said they wanted to avoid cutscene>gunfight>cutscene progression and are focusing on more varied pacing. I hope it's something like Evil Within which moves from cinematic setpieces, large scale battles, and quiet/atmospheric exploration regularly.

 

[msdstc]

It's actually not what they're going for, which is why this demo and them having to cut the E3 stage footage from 11 minutes to 2 has hurt the showings of this game. In the GI issue about the game they explicitly said they wanted to avoid cutscene>gunfight>cutscene progression and are focusing on more varied pacing. I hope it's something like Evil Within which moves from cinematic setpieces, large scale battles, and quiet/atmospheric exploration regularly.

Multiple times they've talked about wanting to blur the lines between movie and game, and that they want a "filmic" feel, and that they want a new bar for movie quality, etc. If I'm not mistaken i actually believe they put story above gameplay in one of the interviews.

 

[RoboPlato]

Multiple times they've talked about wanting to blur the lines between movie and game, and that they want a "filmic" feel, and that they want a new bar for movie quality, etc. If I'm not mistaken i actually believe they put story above gameplay in one of the interviews.

Cinematic feel and an emphasis on story doesn't mean constant cutscenes.

 

[msdstc]

Cinematic feel and an emphasis on story doesn't mean constant cutscenes.

No it doesn't, but when you combine what's been shown, with the endless stream of "we value story over gameplay", to all the cinematic talk, etc. and you have a pretty good picture of what's to come. We've seen more than just this demo you know. We've seen the werewolf scene, the demo, the initial reveal, and every single thing they've shown had interactive cutscenes galore and QTES.

 

[get2sammyb]

No it doesn't, but when you combine what's been shown, with the endless stream of "we value story over gameplay", to all the cinematic talk, etc. and you have a pretty good picture of what's to come. We've seen more than just this demo you know. We've seen the werewolf scene, the demo, the initial reveal, and every single thing they've shown had interactive cutscenes galore and QTES.

Cumulatively, we've probably seen about 25 minutes of the game. There are going to be, what, at least six to eight hours of meat to the game. I do agree with you that it's putting out the wrong impression, but I don't think it necessarily has to be indicative of the entire experience at all.

Again, in the demo, it's still early - they're clearly world building, hence the frequent cut-scenes. Plus, they probably focused on this bit to show off their technology - the seamless transitions is one thing they've pushed, as everyone thought the original reveal was CGI.

 

[Dragon1893]

This game is going to get mediocre reviews, I can just feel it

Yeah, I'm expecting the same. Hopefully there's a lot more to the game.

 

[hohoXD123]

You say this as if every member of the press should be aware of exactly what demos have been shown somewhere in the world, and when. This guy went to the Paris Game Show, and it was his first chance to get hands on with the game, so he gave his impressions.

Also, I'm not aware of a demo from this game showing someone on your team dying.

He should have known. This demo has pretty much been at every major gaming event for months now. I'd think knowing if the build you're playing is old or not, as well as if your colleagues have played and posted about this very same demo, is a pretty basic thing especially for the editor in chief of all people.

 

[Creaking]

No it doesn't, but when you combine what's been shown, with the endless stream of "we value story over gameplay", to all the cinematic talk, etc. and you have a pretty good picture of what's to come. We've seen more than just this demo you know. We've seen the werewolf scene, the demo, the initial reveal, and every single thing they've shown had interactive cutscenes galore and QTES.

You might have gotten a little confused by GAF parodies of that talk. There were a lot of fake quotes thrown around in the past couple of months, especially around E3. I wouldn't call what RaD has actually said on the matter an endless stream.

 

[shinobi602]

"It's an ancient build, unfortunately. Can't wait to show more"

 

[Jigorath]

So like Infamous Second Son they're just going to show off the same level over and over again. Sony really sucks at showing off their games to the press.

 

[krioto]

this is embarrassing on so many levels

 

[orochi91]

"It's an ancient build, unfortunately. Can't wait to show more"

Very excited to see how this game will turn out.

My expectations are sky high.

 

[RoboPlato]

No it doesn't, but when you combine what's been shown, with the endless stream of "we value story over gameplay", to all the cinematic talk, etc. and you have a pretty good picture of what's to come. We've seen more than just this demo you know. We've seen the werewolf scene, the demo, the initial reveal, and every single thing they've shown had interactive cutscenes galore and QTES.

Have you played RaD's GoW games? Both of them had QTEs, cinematic moments, and a bigger emphasis on story than other games on the series and they were still excellent. I wouldn't be surprised if there were major systems not ready to be shown back at E3. Even in the GC trailer, combat and hit reactions seemed far improved. It's RaD's previous games that are why I'm looking forward to this becaue they've used those same elements before to great effect. Every one of those sections shown have also been tutorials introducing world building elements, moments that are always more heavily scripted and cutscene reliant than standard gameplay.

I do think they desperately need to show something new but, at least as far as I understand it, Sony is in charge of that and the past few years they've been keeping devs muzzled and on a tight leash in regards to showing footage. My biggest complaint with them lately.

 

[BruiserBear]

"It's an ancient build, unfortunately. Can't wait to show more"

Wow. That's what I've been wanting to hear. Very happy to see that.

 

[Mr.Fletcher]

I've always believed in this game and will continue to do so. I'm extremely excited (and desperate) to see something new though, we've seen too little for too long.

 

[nelsonroyale]

I am interested in this game for sure, but they need to go all out with an awesome showing. Visuals are down, it looks awesome, but the gameplay scenarios they have shown have been very tame. They need to show something ambitious and less restricted. London isn't endless alley ways obviously. There are massive boulevards, docklands, parks, etc. They did show more variety in the gamescom trailer though, which was promising.

 

[RoboPlato]

Wow. That's what I've been wanting to hear. Very happy to see that.

By my estimate, this build has to be at least from April. It was shown in mid May at E3 Judges' week and it takes about a month to get a demo up to snuff. Shinobi has said that they're grinding hard on the game as we speak.

 

[WordsintheWater]

Have you played RaD's GoW games? Both of them had QTEs, cinematic moments, and a bigger emphasis on story than other games on the series and they were still excellent. I wouldn't be surprised if there were major systems not ready to be shown back at E3. Even in the GC trailer, combat and hit reactions seemed far improved. It's RaD's previous games that are why I'm looking forward to this becaue they've used those same elements before to great effect. Every one of those sections shown have also been tutorials introducing world building elements, moments that are always more heavily scripted and cutscene reliant than standard gameplay.

I do think they desperately need to show something new but, at least as far as I understand it, Sony is in charge of that and the past few years they've been keeping devs muzzled and on a tight leash in regards to showing footage. My biggest complaint with them lately.

They did an interview with Gamespot after E3 and spoke about how they don't just want to do TPS and they want to emphasize exploration and other gameplay systems. To think this game is gonna be exactly like that small chunk they've shown is ridiculous. I really hope they show something different at the even in about a months time just so they can put a lot of questions to rest. Here's the interview if anyone wants to see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgr24fQHCfw

 

[WordsintheWater]

I am interested in this game for sure, but they need to go all out with an awesome showing. Visuals are down, it looks awesome, but the gameplay scenarios they have shown have been very tame. They need to show something ambitious and less restricted. London isn't endless alley ways obviously. There are massive boulevards, docklands, parks, etc. They did show more variety in the gamescom trailer though, which was promising.

Well I know you mentioned the Gamecom trailer and didn't it just show exactly that? I saw what looked like docklands and parks in a few scenes. There looked to be some stealth gameplay in there where the enemies seem like they are searching for the player with lanterns.

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

"It's an ancient build, unfortunately. Can't wait to show more"

I want it all, and I want it now.

 

[msdstc]

You might have gotten a little confused by GAF parodies of that talk. There were a lot of fake quotes thrown around in the past couple of months, especially around E3. I wouldn't call what RaD has actually said on the matter an endless stream.

"I think story and visuals are very high. Gameplay is something that… it’s a game, we make games, we can’t get around it. We love games, but we also love telling stories, so I think story is always going to be at the top because it’s what we start with."

Direct quote.

Have you played RaD's GoW games? Both of them had QTEs, cinematic moments, and a bigger emphasis on story than other games on the series and they were still excellent. I wouldn't be surprised if there were major systems not ready to be shown back at E3. Even in the GC trailer, combat and hit reactions seemed far improved. It's RaD's previous games that are why I'm looking forward to this becaue they've used those same elements before to great effect. Every one of those sections shown have also been tutorials introducing world building elements, moments that are always more heavily scripted and cutscene reliant than standard gameplay.

I do think they desperately need to show something new but, at least as far as I understand it, Sony is in charge of that and the past few years they've been keeping devs muzzled and on a tight leash in regards to showing footage. My biggest complaint with them lately.

I have which is why I had very high hopes for them given a full budget and the premise was awesome/unique. What they've said and shown proves they are favoring style over substance to this point. That can absolutely change, but with each showing, the percentages sway in the wrong direction.

 

[shinobi602]

Shinobi has said that they're grinding hard on the game as we speak.

Yea, extremely so.

 

[msdstc]

Yea, extremely so.

Can you give us anything to indicate what we should expect?

 

[cornerman]

So like Infamous Second Son they're just going to show off the same level over and over again. Sony really sucks at showing off their games to the press.

I think its important to consider the time frame with a lot of those games. It may seem like a long time on the consumer end, but these games are still early in the cycle for these platforms. The ps4 dev kits are new and changing. You're pulling your engine together and trying to get things ready for launch. Getting a couple months of extended time is to ensure the game is completed first and foremost, and not so much to show it off. Naturally showing it off comes with completion. Look at a number of the games that have released this year. There aren't many that live up to the content delivery of the latter half of the past generation. A lot of games have been a bit simplistic and criticized for being short on content (TitanFall, Destiny, DriveClub, infamous, Killer Instinct, Ryse, Knack, etc). This is still the first wave of software. Development is based on foundation and continued iteration, and we're in the foundation phase.

While we are wiling to accept that all dev studios are not equal when it comes to output (ie some games being more well-received than others)...we also must realize that not all devs develop the same way, at the same pace, with the same focus, have different strengths and weaknesses, and different goals. All those things can contribute to games being at different stages and different times. Just because an event like E3 or Gamescom rolls around, it doesn't mean that a game is ready to show. That's the reason you get CG trailers versus gameplay trailers sometimes, or games go on hiatus at times. We take this stuff for granted.

Neither Sony nor MS I would say dictate what parts of a game devs work on for a demo. They ask. I would hazard to guess that the dev pulls together what they can based on what they feel they can muster together in a time for an event. This is typically what you see in behind-the-scenes videos. After they pull it together, Sony might try to edit out portions after the fact. But that initial unedited version is at the discretion of the developer.

Reveals may get better when the second wave of games come out, after engines have matured and we start seeing sequels...basically when devs know the identity of their games and have a clear blueprint of what they're setting out to do based on that foundation.

 

[shinobi602]

Can you give us anything to indicate what we should expect?

In which way?

 

[msdstc]

In which way?

Like is all the doom and gloom overblown? I'm still holding out that they'll blow us away with this one. Was really hoping this could evolve into one of the next great AAA franchises.

 

[WordsintheWater]

I'm pretty sure this is gonna have exploration, stealth segments, and of course 3rd person shooting. In the E3 gameplay demo they showed that the werewolf was able to easily overpower Galahad, so I'm assuming will get segments where you have to avoid them completely, a little cat and mouse game with a werewolf sounds very appealing to me.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

I still think I'm going to enjoy this game. I'm really glad they beefed up the gunplay. The earliest available footage made the guns seem like fucking peashooters.

 

[Catdaddy]

With new IPs (and sometimes in life) set the bar low and no matter what you'll end up being pleasantly surprised with the outcome..

(i.e.pessimism....It's really not a bad way of life....or maybe it it is, hell if I know.....)

 

[shinobi602]

Like is all the doom and gloom overblown? I'm still holding out that they'll blow us away with this one. Was really hoping this could evolve into one of the next great AAA franchises.

I feel RAD will deliver. In all fairness though, it's not unreasonable to feel a little wary from the outside looking in given what has been shown in limited fashion so far, developer comments and how soon we are to release. However there is a lot more to the game than what they're showing. Lots of crazy weapons yet to be seen, lycan/revolutionary battles, larger areas with NPCs, certain setpieces, etc. I know comments like wanting it to be "filmic" or that there's gameplay because "they have to" or something are concerning, but they're really just misconstrued statements like many devs from other studios make. They certainly do want it to evolve into a franchise. The devs there are extremely talented. I'm not worried at all.

From some conversations, the engine is absolutely insane though, that's for sure. Ahead of any other first party studio.

 

[msdstc]

I still think I'm going to enjoy this game. I'm really glad they beefed up the gunplay. The earliest available footage made the guns seem like fucking peashooters.

The gunplay was awesome. Reminded me of resistance in the inventive guns, but it had a good punch to it. The problem was that you only ever used guns for a few minutes at a time.

 

[cornerman]

"I think story and visuals are very high. Gameplay is something that… it’s a game, we make games, we can’t get around it. We love games, but we also love telling stories, so I think story is always going to be at the top because it’s what we start with."

Direct quote.

I get how people come away with your opinion of that quote. I just interpret it differently. I see that as more of an attempt to explain the creative process. I remember a God of War dev once talking about the combat of Kratos. He mentioned how they could have Kratos doing flips and performing acrobatic martial arts flavored moves, but that it wouldn't feel true to the character and the story they created. They wanted the combat to envoke the savagery that character's personality and story portrayed. So moves are more about power and brutality over say finesse and style. Just adding whatever they wanted without that guideline and Kratos's moveset might have looked more like Ninja Gaiden, or Bayonetta, or Devil May Cry.

Remember these guys aren't perfect, they aren't going to word everything perfectly and avoid all the pitfalls that any gamer could levy at them. They aren't reading off a teleprompter nor are they typing this up on a forum post with the luxury of backspace. Just about any narrative driven game is attempting this in gaming today, and the Order is no exception. All they're trying to do is marry story and gameplay, and have one inform the other. Its ND's attempt at trying to make Drake an everyman. It was Rockstar's attempt with Red Dead in choosing side missions and tasks that reflect the character and setting. Immersion.

Now whether they're able to implement to a degree that we enjoy is another question.

 

[msdstc]

I feel RAD will deliver. In all fairness though, it's not unreasonable to feel a little wary from the outside looking in given what has been shown in limited fashion so far, developer comments and how soon we are to release. However there is a lot more to the game than what they're showing. Lots of crazy weapons yet to be seen, lycan/revolutionary battles, larger areas with NPCs, certain setpieces, etc. I know comments like wanting it to be "filmic" or that there's gameplay because "they have to" or something are concerning, but they're really just misconstrued statements. They certainly do want it to evolve into a franchise. The devs there are extremely talented. I'm not worried at all.

From some conversations, the engine is absolutely insane though, that's for sure. Ahead of any other first party studio.

Even ND? That's very encouraging the game absolutely blew me away at e3 visually when I got my hands on it. Often I'll see gameplay, that when I finally get around to playing, I enjoy the game, but the visuals leave me somewhat underwhelmed. This one looks absolutely stunning, like controlling CGI. This is coming from someone who was left slightly disappointed by Driveclub and infamous SS, although they're both gorgeous

 

[Servbot24]

I feel RAD will deliver. In all fairness though, it's not unreasonable to feel a little wary from the outside looking in given what has been shown in limited fashion so far, developer comments and how soon we are to release. However there is a lot more to the game than what they're showing. Lots of crazy weapons yet to be seen, lycan/revolutionary battles, larger areas with NPCs, certain setpieces, etc. I know comments like wanting it to be "filmic" or that there's gameplay because "they have to" or something are concerning, but they're really just misconstrued statements like many devs from other studios make. They certainly do want it to evolve into a franchise. The devs there are extremely talented. I'm not worried at all.

From some conversations, the engine is absolutely insane though, that's for sure. Ahead of any other first party studio.

That's good to hear. Such a large investment really needs to pay off.

 

[sora87]

Nah bro, no accountability. I mean, if you are a game journalist, what point is there in keeping up with the industry and knowing what you play. Furthermore, there isn't even a point in having any technical understanding of video games. Just fly by the seat of your pants, and write/talk about your feels. That how it works.

I knew Unlocked was embarrassing but this takes it to a WHOLE new level. Holy shit.

 

[DevilFox]

edit: I agree with cornerman.

No it doesn't, but when you combine what's been shown, with the endless stream of "we value story over gameplay", to all the cinematic talk, etc. and you have a pretty good picture of what's to come. We've seen more than just this demo you know. We've seen the werewolf scene, the demo, the initial reveal, and every single thing they've shown had interactive cutscenes galore and QTES.

"I think story and visuals are very high. Gameplay is something that… it’s a game, we make games, we can’t get around it. We love games, but we also love telling stories, so I think story is always going to be at the top because it’s what we start with."

Direct quote.

Not this shit again, please. This quote comes out in every topic of The Order and every time it's taken out of context and people do not even try to understand what the guy meant. It's just disrespectful, do you thin RAD is made by a bunch of idiots?

Q: So of the three key aspects of a game - visuals, gameplay and story - which would you say was your priority with The Order 1886?

A: I think story and visuals are very high. Gameplay is something that... it's a game, we make games, we can't get around it. We love games, but we also love telling stories, so I think story is always going to be at the top because it's what we start with. It's at the top of the pyramid and everything else supports that. I think it'd be more challenging to make a game for the gameplay's sake, then try to make a story that fits in there.

The bold is the key. If you're going to make a story driven game, the one thing you absolutely want is that gameplay is consistent in the lore you created. This is why story becomes the most important component and everything else supports it. RAD, with pics and interviews, has already shown a crazy level of detail about the lore that also reflects on gameplay: an example are the weapons, that are not just a work of fantasy.
Sure, they could put gameplay first. They could make Galahad to spit fire from the ass****, it's funny and it adds variety (?) but then, how are you going to justify it in the story?
This is why gameplay-focused games has almost always a very poor story or a very "imaginative" (I can't think of the right term) story.
It's not different from great games like Deus Ex Human Revolution or The Last of Us, both of them have elements in the story (Deus Ex, with the implants for example) or the characters themself that deeply influence the gameplay.

 

[cornerman]

That's good to hear. Such a large investment really needs to pay off.

they've said as much in an interview early on. I think it was the same one where they talked about the game being a TPS but that they wanted to do more than just shoot (though it is primarily a shooter). They mentioned that they wanted to make it a franchise..and eluded to the fact the first game's entry won't entirely be representative of where they'll ultimately take the series.

 

[IAmRandom31]

What if the game tells an incredibly engrossing and entertaining story?

From the first time we heard about the game we knew RAD was going for " filmic " presentation and gameplay. If that is the case, the story will tell the tale of whether or not it is a worthy purchase. From what we have seen of the gemeplay it is mucho God of War or Tomv Raider where there are cinematics intersecting with the gameplay and little button activated events. Nothing we haven't seen before.

 

[msdstc]

edit: I agree with cornerman.





Not this shit again, please. This quote comes out in every topic of The Order and every time it's taken out of context and people do not even try to understand what the guy meant. It's just disrespectful, do you thin RAD is made by a bunch of idiots?



The bold is the key. If you're going to make a story driven game, the one thing you absolutely want is that gameplay is consistent in the lore you created. This is why story becomes the most important component and everything else supports it. RAD, with pics and interviews, has already shown a crazy level of detail about the lore that also reflects on gameplay: an example are the weapons, that are not just a work of fantasy.
Sure, they could put gameplay first. They could make Galahad to spit fire from the ass****, it's funny and it adds variety (?) but then, how are you going to justify it in the story?
This is why gameplay-focused games has almost always a very poor story or a very "imaginative" (I can't think of the right term) story.
It's not different from great games like Deus Ex Human Revolution or The Last of Us, both of them have elements in the story (Deus Ex, with the implants for example) or the characters themself that deeply influence the gameplay.

I didn't let that one quote taken out of context worry me. But then you combine it with everything that's been shown and said and you see a bleak outlook.

 

[SeventhSon]

Nah bro, no accountability. I mean, if you are a game journalist, what point is there in keeping up with the industry and knowing what you play. Furthermore, there isn't even a point in having any technical understanding of video games. Just fly by the seat of your pants, and write/talk about your feels. That how it works.

Whose Game Journalism Anyway?

Where the talking points are made up and the facts don't matter.

 

[msdstc]

What if the game tells an incredibly engrossing and entertaining story?

From the first time we heard about the game we knew RAD was going for " filmic " presentation and gameplay. If that is the case, the story will tell the tale of whether or not it is a worthy purchase. From what we have seen of the gemeplay it is mucho God of War or Tomv Raider where there are cinematics intersecting with the gameplay and little button activated events. Nothing we haven't seen before.

But it won't. If Last of Us had it's story, but horrible gameplay it wouldn't be a good game or worth it. Last of us was far more than a good story though as anybody who plays it knows.

 

[Rezae]

This is going to be one of the most polarizing games on GAF in a long time. Any mention of it these days is nearly toxic. I don't know if I want to see meltdowns from it being mediocre or from defying preconceived expectations. Either way, there will be epic meltdowns.

 

[De_Legend]

Shinobi,

Do you think the game could be pushed back a little more once again or not at all?

 

[Etnos]

I love steam punk stuff, but yeah everything they've show seems mighty boring gameplay wise. Hopefully it turns out good.