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Legend of Korra Book 4: Balance |OT| A Feast of Crows

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I have been re-watching the original series (again...) and five things are immediate apparent:

1) - Sokka IS funnier than Bolin, but has almost as many duds. He just has the benefit of sharing his duties with pretty much the entire cast. Bolin is pretty much the only one who ever gets to be 'funny'.

2) - The lighter tone of much of the original series allows it get it away with a lot of stuff than the more Drama-like Korra. Comedy-Action-Adventure plays much closer to the strengths of the writers than Action-Drama.

3) - The little we know of Kyoshi points to her being a pretty 'poor' Avatar if we use the same standards as we do with Korra. In many ways, Roku was not too hot either.

4) - Despite some stumbles, the original series is MILES ahead of LoK in terms of overall writing quality. TLA often impresses because it rarely reaches unnecessarily. In particular, I liked how it often keeps the higher concept stuff as B-Plots for several episodes until they would inevitably culminate into something impressive. Big moments are earned because the elements that comprise them have been given sufficient time to mature.

5) - It is starling how different it is from Korra. And I do not just mean in terms of quality. TLA and LoK operate on pretty much none of the same core principles.
 
MartyStu said:
3) - The little we know of Kyoshi points to her being a pretty 'poor' Avatar if we use the same standards as we do with Korra. In many ways, Roku was not too hot either.
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If you just mean that she violently ended a war...

Look, I feel in the whole "Oh, korra is a hotheaded thug" thing, we've kind of forgotten the reason that it's bad.

I'm not opposed to an avatar (especially one that isn't Aang) using violence as a means to resolve a conflict. The situation with Kuvira, if Korra had gone out and tried to reason with her using actual reasons, and especially if Kuvira couldn't provide good reasons for why she was doing this except out of pure hatred for Suyin or whatever, then I would have absolutely no problem with Korra shrugging and saying "Well, I tried." before going Avatar state on the whole army. But the Kuvira situation is just badly written because we don't have much reason for why she's doing what she's doing.

Compare this to Kyoshi's sitaution. First off, we don't know much about Kyoshi's character, but in every portrayal we see her, she's calm and collected. When Aang contacted her about Ozai, she simply said that he must do his duty as the avatar. That's what Kyoshi is characterized by, her commitment to doing her duty as the avatar. She does not seem inclined towards violence. Meanwhile, Chin is portrayed as a stereotypical tyrant that's trying to conquer the earth kingdom and even wants the avatar to bow to him. He's just a generic bad guy. Could their be more details to their encounter than we know of? Of course, we only get a brief summary of the event from Kyoshi.

But given that this is TLA, where we usually have well written and justified conflicts between groups of people, given Kyoshi's general demeanor, and given the brief characterization of Chin, I'm not sure I see a reason for why I should object to Kyoshi doing what she did. It's not like she intended Chin to even die. She just decided that his conquest was not right, so she moved Kyoshi offland so that he couldn't conquer it. Chin died because he fell off while this was being done. She didn't really care that she killed him and considered it for the best, so whatever.

Compared this to Korra in the past. Her immediate reaction to every conflict was to beat it down with violence. She saw the world as very simple. She was a good guy, they were bad guys. Beating them up is not just what she's supposed to do, but it's something she loves doing. She loved fighting and violence. The reason Amon is as much of a failure as she was is that Korra never cared about the equalist conflict. She was just looking for a villain, and Tenzin would be the one to handle all the boring sociological stuff about if nonbenders are being treated fairly or not. Same with Unalaq, she only cared about learning about spirituality insofar as she needed to kick Spirit ass. It was especially obvious in the finale where she just choose to keep the spirit portal open. She didn't give any reasons for why she thought it was a good idea, it was more of a "Hey, why not" sort of thing. And the show goes along with her line of thinking. Meaning, when Korra doesn't give any thought to the equalist conflict or decides that keeping the portal open on a whim is a good idea, the writers do the same. That's why no one calls Korra out on her inconsideration. That's why no one asks "Hey, korra, WHY do you think it's a good idea to keep it open?"

And then came Zaheer. He was one step forward, two steps back. Before she met Zaheer in the spirit world, she was completely ready to throw down with him as soon as she heard he was an enemy. THat's all Korra needed to know. But then they talked in the spirit world, and he gave her his reasons for why he was doing what he was doing. At that point, Korra had to step back, because she couldn't classify him as just Baddy McBadguy at that moment. And it would have been great in the writers pursued this, but they instead opted to focus on Zaheer's viciousness. His team attack Korra while she's resting, and he is willing to hurt the air nomads, including children. And then he explains he is personally going to kill her. Even if his philosophical leanings might have a point, the position he puts Korra and the others in don't really leave any breathing room for moral ambiguity to flourish. So, aside from that ONE MOMENT in the spirit world where Korra makes a pathetic attempt at resolving this through talk (mostly because she isn't good at that stuff), he's essentially Baddy McBadguy even if he might have something worth while to say.

So then we finally come to present day. Korra is trying to do things diplomatically. These posts explain why it doesn't work pretty thoroughly.

So where am I going with all this? The reason that Korra is a bad avatar isn't that she's violent. It's that she's just....stupid, and her default inclination happens to be violence. If it happened to be evasiveness (like Aang) it'd be just as bad. What seperates Aang and Korra is not their personal inclinations, it's their (and by extension, the writers) ability to reflect on the world. In the first two seasons, Korra just sees herself as a good guy without giving any thought to the larger sociological/political/moral/spiritual issues at play. As far as she's concerned, she's just the weapon that puts down anything that threatens whoever she sees as the good guys, which is usually based on their associations with her. That's how Tarlok and Unalaq convinced her to join them. "Hey, we can teach you new ways to fight" and that's enough for her to become their agent. She had the opportunity to grow in season 3, but that the way the situations were written didn't allow her to grow by reflecting on the moral questions that Zaheer presented. You can't ask someone to honestly debate the merits of your philosophical position when you have a gun to the heads of their friends and family. And now we have Kuvira. Yeah, Korra wants to be reflective now, and try to see the moral complexities of the situation, but this fails because the writers can't seem to write intelligent polticial debate. There are potential points that could be raised. I suggested them myself. But Korra doesn't bring them up. Suyin doesn't bring them up. Kuvira doesn't bring them up. No one brings them up, presumably because the writers haven't thought of them, or else I don't know why they wouldn't include them.

Of course, I have to emphasize: Korra being stupid is a symptom of the SHOW being stupid. I don't know who headed writing for TLA, but whoever it was was intelligent enough to understand the various political and moral implications that situations like that held. Whoever is writing Korra...don't. They just don't. They've definitely heard the complaints. They know moral reflection is something Korra needs to do, but they don't know how moral reflection itself works. So we get the epic confrontation with Kuvira that goes "Uh...you should stop this because it's wrong for....reasons. " "you know, I had to make a lot of hard choices in the past. Hard choices I am not going to specify or explain in any way." "Still...back off?" "You and I are a lot alike, Korra." "Yeah, because we both fight....like pretty much every other main character on this show" "Right, therefore go talk to Suyin to get her to back down. I won't do anything while you have your back turned. Pinky swear. " "kay".

This isn't anything like Roku or Kyoshi. With Kyoshi, we don't get a lot of details. It may very well be that the situation was much more complex than what we got, and it may be that Kyoshi acted wrongly, but based on what we did get, Kyoshi's actions were are well justified on both a character level and thinking level. With Roku, it was a mistake to let Sozin live, but he had good reasons to let it go at the time, and Sozin only did what he did as a split second decision DECADES down the line. There's no way Roku could have predicted that would happen and all the moral implications of having done it are well defined in the minds of the writers because even the characters debate this. This just isn't the case with LoK. The writers here get an idea that has potential for a lot of moral conflict, but they never do anything with it. That's what makes Legend of Korra so much lesser than TLA. That's what makes Korra an idiot in the face of Aang. The characters have to be able to reflect on the world around them in deep ways, and the writers just seem incapable of that. Had TLA been written by these guys, we'd have the same issues, just in a different way.
 
CreeperBlocks said:
I have this werid feeling that kuvria is not the main villian of the last season. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Korra Tumblr say something about the villain of the final series would be tied to all other villains in a way? If it's true(and maybe I'm just having crappy memory), the logical guess for the overall villain IMO would be President Raiko.

  • Came into power from the Equalist revolution
  • Refused to get involved/actually FIGHT an enemy that everyone could see was causing issues, then let Korra bring a Kaiju fight to Republic City and destroy a substantial chunk
  • Exiled/Forced Korra to leave Republic City because of damages/to save face
  • Wants to support the ascent of a grade A number 1 Moron to the throne with the sole purpose of using him as a pawn(see Lin's "We're all pawns in Raiko's game"

I mean, it could just be my baseless speculation, but I think that if there IS an overarching villain, it's going to be someone from Republic City. Kuvira's war of aggression might just work out in his favour the same way Wu's rule would have: Showing that the Earth Kingdom is unfit for rule by itself and deserves to be ruled by an outside power.
 
Kuvira doesn't bring them up. No one brings them up, presumably because the writers haven't thought of them, or else I don't know why they wouldn't include them.
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They don't include them because it doesn't push the story forward they way they want, with a focus on action over dialogue, and because it doesn't cater to their audience.

Yes, WE, as adults, would be interested in the political debate, but the political situation, without the debate, is what drives the narrative, that creates the conflict, the need for the battle(s) that will be more interesting to children, and for many adults, whom I presume is still a large part of the show's audience.

I watch the show with my fiancee and our respective daughters. The show you hint at, with complex political debates, would turn them off. I would hate to lose that shared experience.
 
Dispatch said:
They don't include them because it doesn't push the story forward they way they want, with a focus on action over dialogue, and because it doesn't cater to their audience.

Yes, WE, as adults, would be interested in the political debate, but the political situation, without the debate, is what drives the narrative, that creates the conflict, the need for the battle(s) that will be more interesting to children, and for many adults, whom I presume is still a large part of the show's audience.

I watch the show with my fiancee and our respective daughters. The show you hint at, with complex political debates, would turn them off. I would hate to lose that shared experience.
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This is BS, for a number of reasons. For one, young or old, they need to establish basic motivations for characters for anyone to have a clue what they're doing and why. Children are not so stupid that they can't comprehend these things. Complex or simple, we need to know what the fuck Korra is trying to do with Kuvira for her not to come off as extraordinarily stupid.

For another, LoK is aimed at older audiences more than TLA ever was, particularly with how dark some of the material has gotten. And if TLA was aimed for smaller children, and it managed to insert all these things in it's show, I can't imagine what Korra's excuse is.

Sorry, but "it's a kids show" has long stopped being an excuse for anything, if it ever was.

Admiral Woofington said:
I think this is an issue of finding a balance between the Original Star Wars Trilogy and the prequels. Not too much political crap or we know what happens.
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The prequels don't have as much politics as you'd think, or as complex as the politics the dialogue implies. The problem of the prequels is the same as LoK's: They don't make it clear what is happening and why. To this day, based on the movies alone, I have no idea why the trade federation would want to blockade a planet, or why their need is so urgent that they can't survive a day without supplies. But if you want an overview for their problems, just watch the plinket reviews.
 
My thoughts on the kids show thing from a previous post:

Kids learn so much from media nowadays that I think it's a cop-out to say that kids shows shouldn't tackle more mature themes/issues in some capacity. Obviously context and proportionality is everything but still. Otherwise they'll just learn a different lesson earlier from someone else and kids will invariably watch content not meant for them too. There's not a magic age where suddenly it's appropriate to drop the full weight of human experience, it needs to be a more measured and consistent flow. If they're learning about ISIS or Isreal/Palestine in the news or school, I see no reason why the entertainment content they watch shouldn't reflect those kinds of issues/themes too, with moderation of course.

It's why Korra bothers me with the way relationships are handled. Kids have romantic relationships, and they're going to be informed by content they watch. So if Bolin kisses someone without consent, or Mako never actually breaks up with Asami before getting with Korra, yeah my nieces are gonna complain that it's not right and I don't have a good answer for why the show doesn't address it in a more "adult" manner because it's not an adult exclusive thing. If the first time kids are exposed to those kinds of issues is in their teenage years it's coming too late.
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Veelk, my position on Kyoshi is simple.

Despite knowing that Chin was a horrible Tyrant, she made no effort to stop or slow his advance. She only acted when her home came in the direct line of fire.

Even then, she chooses to run away rather than actually deal with Chin. His death was entirely unintentional.

This combined with the Dai Li and the Kyoshi warriors gives the distinct impression that not only did she not always think things through, but she was also a bit of a homebody: watching over the interests of the earth kingdom and her immediate followers more than anything else.

From what we know of her, she seems to be pretty damn shortsighted. Then again, this seems to be a common trait amongst the Avatars.

Korra seems to be exceptionally shortsighted though.
 
MartyStu said:
Veelk, my position on Kyoshi is simple.

Despite knowing that Chin was a horrible Tyrant, she made no effort to stop or slow his advance. She only acted when her home came in the direct line of fire.

Even then, she chooses to run away rather than actually deal with Chin. His death was entirely unintentional.

This combined with the Dai Li and the Kyoshi warriors gives the distinct impression that not only did she not always thing things through, but she was also a bit of a homebody. Watching over the interests of the earth kingdom and her immediate followers more than anything else.

From what we know of her, she seems to be pretty damn shortsighted for an Avatar. But since this does not seem to be uncommon amongst most of the ones we know about...
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The problem with this assessment is that we don't know why she held back on dealing with Chin, though I'd disagree in saying that moving the continent was a bad move. We also don't know the context of her creation of the dai li (though this is from sources outside TLA, which I don't personally consider canon)

A person's life shouldn't be defined by their mistakes but rather WHY they did what they did, mistakes and all. This is my true criticism of Korra. We don't have that with Kyoshi. I do question why she waited as long as she did, but that's more for clarification purposes rather than necessarily as a criticism of her rule.
 
Korra's a huge step up from the last time the Avatar cycle made it's way around to Water.
 
This season is kind of boring so far. I have no great desire to rewatch any of the episodes, whereas with season 3 I have seen every episode 2 or 3 times.
 
Honestly the writers already took a dump on my hopes for Bolin to go through the whole morally grey route and stick with Kuvira until she's about to do something too extreme where he goes against her and gets captured. They decided to skip all of that and make her evil so he instantly leaves and already got captured.

My only other hope for his storyline this season is that he actually gets brainwashed by Dai Li looking motherfuckers and Mako and/or Opal go to rescue him. Knowing the writers' desire to shit on all of my hopes and dreams though, Bolin will be rescued next episode and he will be perfectly fine.

Though I do think it won't take too long for him to be rescued if the trailer is any indication. Mako is going along with Korra to a temple, and assuming next episode it's all about Kuvira taking over the city, I'd argue that particular scene doesn't have too long to appear. And if Mako would seriously choose a chance at rekindling the flame with an ex over rescuing his own brother from the equivalent of the Earth Nazi containment camp, then fuck Mako.

Trey said:
This season is kind of boring so far. I have no great desire to rewatch any of the episodes, whereas with season 3 I have seen every episode 2 or 3 times.
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It's suffering from the issues of season 2 in that the krew is separated all around the world so to focus one character that means another won't have screen time and needs to be focused on later. But it's a 13 episode season. You don't have this luxury of character/group centric episodes. Get them together, stop the set-up now and get shit done.
 
Veelk said:
The problem with this assessment is that we don't know why she held back on dealing with Chin, though I'd disagree in saying that moving the continent was a bad move. We also don't know the context of her creation of the dai li (though this is from sources outside TLA, which I don't personally consider canon)

A person's life shouldn't be defined by their mistakes but rather WHY they did what they did, mistakes and all. This is my true criticism of Korra. We don't have that with Kyoshi. I do question why she waited as long as she did, but that's more for clarification purposes rather than necessarily as a criticism of her rule.
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It is not an entirely unfair criticism based on the information we are provided.

Unlike some of the other Avatars, we are given enough information on Kyoshi that speculation on some aspects of her life is possible.
 
Toa TAK said:
You are all crazy. Kuvira is the endgame and I'm willing to bet my account on it.
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Ha quite the bet but are you willing to add it to the Book 4 betting list though.
Believe in Opal.
Htown said:
Korra's a huge step up from the last time the Avatar cycle made it's way around to Water.
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Freaking Kuruk.

Trey said:
This season is kind of boring so far. I have no great desire to rewatch any of the episodes, whereas with season 3 I have seen every episode 2 or 3 times.
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I'm still enjoying it but the lack of action has certainly been disappointing at least compared to Book 3 where the start of it was chock full of great prison escapes.

Admiral Woofington said:
It's suffering from the issues of season 2 in that the krew is separated all around the world so to focus one character that means another won't have screen time and needs to be focused on later. But it's a 13 episode season. You don't have this luxury of character/group centric episodes. Get them together, stop the set-up now and get shit done.
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Also this.
 
the most excitement I've gotten is seeing Bolin lavabend and wreck those mech suits. Lava bending will be the secret weapon to defeat those. Heck any of those vehicles are fucked against lava bending.
 
MartyStu said:
It is not an unfair criticism based on the information we are provided.

Unlike some of the other Avatars, we are given enough information on Kyoshi that speculation on some aspects of her life is possible.
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Yeah, I don't object to speculation, but speculation is 'Hey, why didn't she just do X", whereas criticism is "She's wrong for not doing X." We don't know why she didn't do X. Maybe she had a good reason for not doing X. It's worth questioning, but I don't think it alone is enough to go on in making a favorable comparison to Korra.
 
Veelk said:
Yeah, I don't object to speculation, but speculation is 'Hey, why didn't she just do X", whereas criticism is "She's wrong for not doing X." We don't know why she didn't do X. Maybe she had a good reason for not doing X. It's worth questioning, but I don't think it alone is enough to go on in making a favorable comparison to Korra.
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The comparison to Korra was not meant to be the main point. But I disagree anyhow.
 
Has Opal been redeemed as the true uniter yet?

And has Pema made her move? I might be an episode behind but ya'll can spoil me if Pema finally killed Korra.
and the baby
 
More Production News.


  • Studio Mir is finishing animation on the second half of Episode 12 and all of Episode 13
  • Jeremy has started the music for Episode 12
Can't wait to hear what Zuckerman has got lined up for the finale.
Toa TAK said:
Bring it on, Hamlet.
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I bow down before the might of The Great Uniter.
Icyflamez96 said:
Raiko will be a bloodbender watch
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What a twist. Does this also mean he's the secret long lost brother to Amon and Tarrlok.
 
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