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[Northeastmonk]

I just never understood all the rage about 599. I mean, it should have had more RAM at that price but it's not all that unreasonable.

The rootkit fiasco, now there is something to get hot about.

Sony was bullied while Xbox took off on its marketing campaign. I paid $599 and I got a free bluray with the deal. I was happy. These stories are making the headlines because the higher ups make money. This isn't about a game(s) generation. This is just bullshots in the public eye.

 

[Occam]

I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy in his pro-game ownership claims since he obviously likes the "free" games aspect of PS+, and that did away with game ownership long before Microsoft proposed their Xbox One plans.

Makes no sense, though, because I can still buy physical copies with full ownership rights. Which is what I do for the most part: I don't buy digital releases of games that have physical counterparts.

 

[travisbickle]

I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy in his pro-game ownership claims since he obviously likes the "free" games aspect of PS+, and that did away with game ownership long before Microsoft proposed their Xbox One plans.

It's not hypocrisy when you are comparing two totally different concepts. PS+ is a yearly subscription service.

 

[Amir0x]

How do they know what Sony/Nintendo have sold?

They have access to much more detailed daily sales reports than we do. I'm sure they keep tabs on the competition. Not sure exactly how the data comes to them, but they certainly have the means to get it when necessary.

So, Yusuf Mehdi is now the xbox chief and not Phil spencer?
Yusuf just said, that digital is the future of games. And, IMHO he IS right in that regard.
Just look at the PC Market, PC retail gaming is almost dead. Now look at EÁ Access, which is, according to EA, a success. And now look at currentgen consoles, digitale sales are 30% sales vs. 70 % sales in just over a year.

No, that's not what the problem is with the statement. Nor does he need to be the Xbox Chief - he is representing the company as someone in a high level position and these people are all given guidelines as to what the company line is on any given issue. He may have gone "off message" or not, but there's no way to tell.

But the issue is not that he believes digital games is the future (and that wasn't the issue with XBO either - it was all the ways it went about doing it, which had offensive DRM, disgusting limitations that had nothing to do with being digital and everything to do with trying to fuck consumers, etc), but that he believes the reason gamers rejected the original XBO concept is because they didn't "explain" it properly or didn't have enough time to. Not only did they have endless chances to explain it to us, but it was genuinely the most ill communicated reveal in the history of gaming. They literally had like 20 different stories about every feature that the system was supposed to have. And when the finally coalesced around a single idea, gamers rejected it because it was shit.

It wasn't an issue with people not "understanding." No matter how long they explained it we still would have rejected it, because it was garbage and the trade-off for what we were losing for it was simply comically wrong. I know there will be people who still plant their flag there, but that's the truth. The fact that we still have high level people within Microsoft trying to convince us we just didn't understand the concept is fucked up and insulting.

It contributes to why people remain hesitant about Microsoft. That's just the reality.

Also, the ID@XBOX parity clause is not anti-customer. lol One could argue, that this is the exact opposite. They want new and unique games on xbox. not lastgen ports over and over again... also, I don't think that the majority of Gamers, don't even know what that is, and don't even care about indie games.
indie games are great, but the MASSES don't care about indie games.

Seriously, stop gobbling the company line. It's ridiculous. EVERY fucking indie that has gone on record about the clause has said it is a horrible, hurtful policy. Every. Single. Indie.

On top of that, of course it's anti-consumer. It's an attempt to fuck the gamers on PS4 because they were too fucking behind on their courting of indies that Sony basically dominated the field.

And if you think it's so altruistic thing that is going to help XBO gamers, think again. PS4 now has over double the indies committed to developing games for it than XBO. PS4 has over 20+ rated 80 or higher metacritic indie titles that are not on XBO and as far as we know will never be. PS4 has almost double the amount of actual indie games announced for it.

So, to recap, this factually hurtful indie policy has caused:

1. Massively less indie games for XBO gamers
2. More hardship for indie devs
3. A few delays for some PS4 indies, all because Microsoft doesn't want to accept they were late to the table. So fuck you PS4 consumers!
4. Massively less indie devs for XBO
5. As a result of less indie games, less revenue from indie games for Microsoft

Who is benefiting again? I'll wait.

Edit: I also want to reinforce precisely how silly it is to even use popularity here when discussing how wrong a policy is. Many gamers being willfully ignorant about an entire category of games that could be literally anything (people saying "I hate indies" are just joke characters for this reason) does not change how bad the policy is.

Also, regarding TV. when did they cancel anything regarding TV? I just bought the TV Tuner, which is great. Streaming TV to all kinds of devices on my home and even multiple devices at ONCE. Or are you talking about TV Series from xbox Entertainment Studios? This was the right step and has nothing to do with xbox, because everyone can watch that garbage. The TV Features of the xbox one are still present and well supported, mini-guide, oneguide and digital tv tuner etc..

Microsoft finally closes Xbox Entertainment TV Studios.

All you're describing is TV pass through tv guide shit. Right from the start they claimed these unique TV presence would not just be what you're describing, but a wealth of developed and curated TV entertainment meant to make the experience unique. I have my own TV guide shit that is five hundred infinity times superior to XBO, so the feature is useless to me and I won't be using it when I do get my XBO. But even for those who wanted it, I was referring to their TV entertainment wing.

 

[BradleyLove]

Nintendo - Region locking , price fixing, making me pay multiple times for the same game on different platforms, Nintendo censorship in the 1980s and 1990s

Sony's own hardware-gate, refusing to acknowledge PS2 problems and settles a class action lawsuit, Sony's rootkit DRM in the music division, removing Linux from PS3, $599 US dollars

Its 5:30am here, I'm half-awake, and this is just off the top of my head without much internet research.

You must be half-awake to post this.

If you're gonna bring up a non-SCE entity (Sony Music) then that means you have to consider MS's non-Xbox divisions' behaviours for the last thirty years. And that does not make pretty reading.

And if selling over $800 worth of components for $600 is being greedy then I don't know what to tell you.

So yeah, incredibly dumb post you've given us.

 

[Northeastmonk]

It's happened a year after both consoles have been out. Who gives a *$#(#? It's not like they've made history. Destiny was released; that's all that has happened. These games go out the door a month or so after they launch and they shut the servers down 6 years or so down the road.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

No, but thinking people would want one so badly that they would get a second job, is.

Over estimating demand isn't greed, its just over estimation.

Sony just misread the market.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Well from what i managed to see, only in 2011 and 2012.

Essentially 2008, although I suppose one can quibble that it was only by 460K in November.

2010, 2011, 2012. I'd consider that quite regularly.

 

[Percy]

Few would argue the PS3 launch wasn't a complete shitshow, but I don't see any reasons for why MS' should be given the same kind of "forgiveness" it took Sony an entire generation to scrape out of gamers in the space of less than a year tbh.

Talking about sales, I don't very often vist high street gaming stores, but I was in a local GAME at the weekend, the store is basically split in half, Xbox on one side, PS4 on the other.

The Xbox side (particularly the xbox one area) was bogging, full of people talking to sales staff and buying stuff, there was a definate buzz, the PS4 half was empty.

Intrigued (as the microcosm of gaming forums and sites, and the figures had me assuming the PS4 was killing it), I asked a sales guy if this was normal, and he said that, since SSOD had launched, the xbox one is pulling in all the sales, and the PS4 is a mere dribble to what it used to be.

I think you're going to need to include some ShadowxSilver BDSM for this to be more in my wheelhouse.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Over estimating demand isn't greed, its just over estimation.

Sony just misread the market.

So MS over estimated too?

 

[Handy Fake]

Amir0x on a scathing and eloquent one-man crusade I see.

If I was a woman, or that way inclined, I'd certainly feel a twinge in my nethers.

 

[Dredd97]

Amir0x on a scathing and eloquent one-man crusade I see.

If I was a woman, or that way inclined, I'd certainly feel a twinge in my nethers.

It's ok Handy we'll forgive you a little bromance action...

And I've not always agreed with Amir0x but boy he's totally killing it these day!!...

 

[CrossTrigger]

Xbox is going to win the holiday season. Price cut, better games line up. It is easy to see this. Sony's 2015 is still really strong as is Microsoft's. I still think Sony will lead through 2015 though.

Playstation needs a megaton announcement soon though, I find that I turn on my xbox a lot more than my PS4 these days and I'm really not that excited about anything outside of No Mans Sky, Tommorow Children and Uncharted.

 

[driver116]

They have access to much more detailed daily sales reports than we do. I'm sure they keep tabs on the competition. Not sure exactly how the data comes to them, but they certainly have the means to get it when necessary.

Seems odd, wouldn't there be some trust/confidence involved in competitors numbers?

 

[Badlucktroll]

I am unbiased. Just bought my first Xbone in the form of the white sunset overdrive bundle. Had my Ps4 for nearly a year. I love getting, opening, and setting up new consoles.

 

[Wynnebeck]

I am unbiased. Just bought my first Xbone in the form of the white sunset overdrive bundle. Had my Ps4 for nearly a year. I love getting, opening, and setting up new consoles.

What does this have to do with the topic at hand? lol

 

[AmFreak]

No, but thinking people would want one so badly that they would get a second job, is.

This was desperation/preparation for the ps3 price. Kutaragi knew the price was going to be a problem. He also knew they were late - every single day MS was alone on the market worsened the situation for Sony. They originally wanted to launch Spring 2006 but blu-ray wasn't ready. That was so painful for Kutaragi that he openly criticized Sony for it (probably one of the things that cost him the Sony CEO spot).
There were a number of statements from him that hinted at a very high ps3 price.
This was preparation for the real price.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

MS finally seeing the sales they want now that the console is priced where it should have been from day one. They need to keep it there if they want to maintain any momentum.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

PS+ games didn't fuck around with the existing paradigm of physical discs.

I never said that they were identical, and Microsoft's vision certainly needed some adjustment. It's all behind us now, but it's my belief that if gamers took a deep breath before exploding with anger, and asked for changes with the same conviction that they asked for lynching, maybe today we could've had the best of both worlds with traditional physical discs that would carry with them digital licenses for those willing to agree to periodic online checkups.

It's also worth remembering that Sony actually released a console that did away with physical media entirely, but it flopped, and they learned their lesson there. Had Microsoft been paying more attention to PSP Go, they could've avoided learning the same lesson the hard way.

 

[driver116]

MS finally seeing the sales they want now that the console is priced where it should have been from day one. They need to keep it there if they want to maintain any momentum.

I think the surge in sales is due to all the bundled software. Otherwise the 'right' price would be about $100 off.

 

[Ursiform]

I am unbiased. Just bought my first Xbone in the form of the white sunset overdrive bundle. Had my Ps4 for nearly a year. I love getting, opening, and setting up new consoles.

What does it smell like? What did the PS4 smell like? My Titatfall Xbone box barely smelled like anything at all

My PS3 and 360 boxes smelled freaking great when cracked open.

N64 games, now those had a great smell. Better than SNES in my opinion.

Please be detailed and answer before someone shits all over your Xbone purchase and ruins the high.

 

[Byron Bluth]

The $50 price cut will obviously not dissapear given the boost, they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they pulled the reigns back on the momentum.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

So MS over estimated too?

Sony misread the willingness of the consumer to pay a certain price.
Microsoft completely misread the willingness of the consumers to buy a console with more DRM and an expensive camera.

 

[unapersson]

"Pls show me examples of Microsoft being greedy assholes in the last few months."

Works both ways

Their Android protection racket

 

[DBT85]

Please be detailed and answer before someone shits all over your Xbone purchase and ruins the high.

Pls.

 

[GnawtyDog]

I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy in his pro-game ownership claims since he obviously likes the "free" games aspect of PS+, and that did away with game ownership long before Microsoft proposed their Xbox One plans.

Lets get two things out of the way first: PS3 PS+ service can not be questioned as DRM (and if you want to debate that we can do that as well, separately). Number two, you're solely referring to what you consider "lack of game ownership" to PS4's PS+ service. The subscription services in these platforms are different so a distinction needs to be made - despite being called PS+.

On PS4:
PS+ "free" game aspect is value added to a subscription service. That subscription service main feature is to access to the PSN network on PS4.

Defined: The subscription business model is a business model where a customer must pay a subscription price to have access to the product/service.

In short, in PS+, you do not purchase video games licenses like at a retail store, you purchase a subscription that gives you access to a digital library of games and PSN network. You stop paying the subscription fee, you stop having access. Keyword is access, not ownership. The subscription business model never gave you ownership - only access.

The purchase of physical video games at retail stores =/= a subscription service. The business models are different. The current model consist of purchasing a license to video games - that license you "own". In the case of physical video games - this license can be traded, gifted and/or sold between parties due to its physical nature.

This is what Xbox One licensing policies did with regards to the purchase of new/used games (aka licensing):

"In our role as a game publisher, Microsoft Studios will enable you to give your games to friends or trade in your Xbox One games at participating retailers. Third party publishers may opt in or out of supporting game resale and may set up business terms or transfer fees with retailers. Microsoft does not receive any compensation as part of this. In addition, third party publishers can enable you to give games to friends. Loaning or renting games won’t be available at launch, but we are exploring the possibilities with our partners."

Aka: You purchase a game, you install the game, the copy gets activated and that physical retail disc becomes useless and devoid of value. MS, along with the support of publishers, strip away any re-sale value of physical video games - aka killing the used-games market. In effect, a change in the licensing model of physical video games disc with an infrastructure to back up enforcement - the Xbox One console and MS network.

The 24-hour check-in is the ultimate cherry on top since it's an authentication process that if not performed simply blocks you from using functionalities of your console and playing the games you purchased.

So, both are not comparable and not equitable. You're arguing the validity and core of a subscription service vs. a proposed change in the way licensing works on physical video game disc.

And you can read more at their press-release: http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

 

[Final Verdict]

The $50 price cut will obviously not dissapear given the boost, they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they pulled the reigns back on the momentum.

yeah, I would be greatly surprised if they raised the price back up after the holidays...
I just wonder when they are going to cut the price for other places like the EU.

 

[twobear]

I'm sure that this has been posted already, probably many times.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Sony misread the willingness of the consumer to pay a certain price.
Microsoft completely misread the willingness of the consumers to buy a console with more DRM and an expensive camera.

Sony misread the market because they though they had it locked. MS proved them otherwise.

But I do agree about the MS part.

 

[LowEndTorque]

Anecdote time. I’m someone who had absolutely no intention of ever getting an X1 at the start of this gen. And the price cut is having effect on me. I’ve been getting little impulses and twinges of temptation to get one with all the crazy deals happening. The only thing that stops me from pulling the trigger is remembering that I don’t actually really want one. But if I did, I’d be all over these deals in a heartbeat.

Point is, if the price cut is playing mind games with people like me who have zero real desire for an X1, I can only imagine what it’s doing for people on the fence or people who actually want one. I expect MS to make a nice dent in Sony’s 1M lead in the US over the holidays. And if they keep the price drop permanent and Sony does nothing I could see them taking the lead in NA in 2015.

 

[Chobel]

but it's my belief that if gamers took a deep breath before exploding with anger, and asked for changes with the same conviction that they asked for lynching, maybe today we could've had the best of both worlds with traditional physical discs that would carry with them digital licenses for those willing to agree to periodic online checkups.

LOL! And how the fuck do you do that? It's not like we can just send some representatives to negotiate with them.

 

[orion434]

So how is the Xbox One tracking against the Xbox 360? Didn't Microsoft ship 10 million x360 before the end of the 2nd Holiday Season?

 

[mrklaw]

I never said that they were identical, and Microsoft's vision certainly needed some adjustment. It's all behind us now, but it's my belief that if gamers took a deep breath before exploding with anger, and asked for changes with the same conviction that they asked for lynching, maybe today we could've had the best of both worlds with traditional physical discs that would carry with them digital licenses for those willing to agree to periodic online checkups.

It's also worth remembering that Sony actually released a console that did away with physical media entirely, but it flopped, and they learned their lesson there. Had Microsoft been paying more attention to PSP Go, they could've avoided learning the same lesson the hard way.

I may get crucified, but here in Europe, PC games on physical discs are readily available - they still install on steam like a download, but you don't need to download gigabytes of data. Basically they are a delivery mechanism for the code. You don't need them once installed, the game behaves exactly the same as a download.

To me, thats what the original MS plan sounded like, but with the possibility to trade in games somehow too. So the benefits of physical distribution, the convenience of being able to play a game without swapping discs, and the potential for retail to compete like they do now.

Didn't seem that bad tbh. And look at how many people are going primarily digital these days for the convenience? Yet they are missing the benefit of retail competition.

 

[King_Moc]

I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy in his pro-game ownership claims since he obviously likes the "free" games aspect of PS+, and that did away with game ownership long before Microsoft proposed their Xbox One plans.

Getting access to 5+ games a month for a subscription that costs me around £2.50 a month is comparable to only being able to buy new games from a digital store that charges £60 and immediately reduces said games value to £0? Who knew!?

To me, thats what the original MS plan sounded like, but with the possibility to trade in games somehow too. So the benefits of physical distribution, the convenience of being able to play a game without swapping discs, and the potential for retail to compete like they do now.

Did it ever occur to you why it might have been that they never explained that process?

 

[Badlucktroll]

If it doesn't come out on top in nov. dec, (which it still might not), that would be like the public telling the Xbox brand to go fuck itself, right?

 

[PhatSaqs]

Thread title is very misleading right about now...lol

 

[Chobel]

Thread title is very misleading right about now...lol

Why? Because it's missing WW at the end?

 

[BadWolf]

I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy in his pro-game ownership claims since he obviously likes the "free" games aspect of PS+, and that did away with game ownership long before Microsoft proposed their Xbox One plans.

PS+ is a rental service.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

"People." The only line we have is this:



Here are the relevant bits of 'data', if you can even call them that with this shit ass deceitful PR.

1. "Sales of Nov 2 week" tripled the week prior. But the qualifier is: Everyone knew about the price cuts in the week prior, so there would have been massive sales contraction. So it actually is meaningless in context.

2. "Xbox One led generation 8 console sales in the US for the past two weeks." So, US territory only... and again, we have no idea if they mean each week they sold more, or if they meant just last week they sold so much that the total is more than what PS4 sold in last two weeks.

3. "Shortly, we will have sold in to retailers more than 10 million..." which is also fairly meaningless. How long is 'shortly'? A week? Two? A month? Additionally, sold in to retailers is not the same as sold in to consumers. There was already a big amount of XBO consoles sitting on shelves, as the XBO hasn't sold anywhere near its total shipment numbers to date.

Anything else is conjecture. It'd be extremely difficult for XBO to actually sell 500k more than PS4 in November or December, as it'd be dependent on shipment numbers, and PS4 also has extreme deals and is upping shipments. It'll be competitive, but whatever "people" are telling you is just random hypothesis about how things will turn out.

I certainly think XBO will win November and perhaps December, but it won't be by 500k.

Gaf needs to think of some nice Inception gifs with MS's PR from now on.

 

[BigDug13]

I may get crucified, but here in Europe, PC games on physical discs are readily available - they still install on steam like a download, but you don't need to download gigabytes of data. Basically they are a delivery mechanism for the code. You don't need them once installed, the game behaves exactly the same as a download.

To me, thats what the original MS plan sounded like, but with the possibility to trade in games somehow too. So the benefits of physical distribution, the convenience of being able to play a game without swapping discs, and the potential for retail to compete like they do now.

Didn't seem that bad tbh. And look at how many people are going primarily digital these days for the convenience? Yet they are missing the benefit of retail competition.

Microsoft went half assed though. If they had truly gone like PC and made their platform like Steam and demolished used games 100% on day one, I would have been more forgiving because then the console wouldn't have had the 24 hour Internet checkins.

What makes Steam superior for me is that I can put it in offline mode, take my computer on deployment where there is no Internet, and play my games for my 6 month deployment.

With Microsoft's half-assed Steam attempt while trying to placate Gamefly, they essentially created a more restrictive version that would have left me without games on deployment for the first time in the history of game consoles.

And when their response to these concerns was "we have a system for you, the Xbox 360", that's when I was done.

They've done a lot to try to win me back, but it's been a tough road for them.

 

[Badlucktroll]

What does it smell like? What did the PS4 smell like? My Titatfall Xbone box barely smelled like anything at all

My PS3 and 360 boxes smelled freaking great when cracked open.

N64 games, now those had a great smell. Better than SNES in my opinion.

Please be detailed and answer before someone shits all over your Xbone purchase and ruins the high.

Well, to be scientific, the Ps4 smelled like this;

The Xbone smelled like this;
(Believe it or not its using a different kind of plastic)

So, if you work out these formulas in a lab, you will see that the Ps4 and the Xbone smell different! (This only applies to the white xbone, not the black xbone, which i assume smell different).

 

[Amir0x]

Thread title is very misleading right about now...lol

What would you rename it to PhatSaqs?

 

[stryke]

If it doesn't come out on top in nov. dec, (which it still might not), that would be like the public telling the Xbox brand to go fuck itself, right?

Not coming out on top doesn't necessarily mean not selling well.

 

[cleveridea]

anecdotally, I have seen a lot of friends buy one with this drop, seems to have been the magic number

issue is longer term is this a trend or just front loaded buyers waiting for a lower price. Sony can just match the price also of course

Still having 2 viable consoles is good in the long run. Sony forcing Microsoft to lower price to compete may end up bringing in lower price consumers. For example, if Sony dropped to $350 would Microsoft drop to $299? Not expecting this holiday season but perhaps next

Its great seeing a superior product (PS4) get actual results matching that, ie dominating sales before price cuts (and before the $350 there were soft price cuts like bundling a game)

 

[ICPEE]

Do i smell #CONCERN ??

Don't know what you are smelling but its not like he is wrong.

 

[Rymuth]

Amir0x on a scathing and eloquent one-man crusade I see.

If I was a woman, or that way inclined, I'd certainly feel a twinge in my nethers.

He's my favorite poster. Screw my gender and/or orientation. I'm getting hot and bothered.

 

[N30RYU]

This is all I can think about everytime a Microsoft PR say something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_Sy6oiJbEk

Spoiler

what part are they twisting to look it good for them... and I know that every company does the same.

 

[JaggedSac]

I may get crucified, but here in Europe, PC games on physical discs are readily available - they still install on steam like a download, but you don't need to download gigabytes of data. Basically they are a delivery mechanism for the code. You don't need them once installed, the game behaves exactly the same as a download.

To me, thats what the original MS plan sounded like, but with the possibility to trade in games somehow too. So the benefits of physical distribution, the convenience of being able to play a game without swapping discs, and the potential for retail to compete like they do now.

Didn't seem that bad tbh. And look at how many people are going primarily digital these days for the convenience? Yet they are missing the benefit of retail competition.

Can you trade in PC games over there? Just curious.

 

[Super_Cobra]

I'm thinking on getting an xbone but there isn't really any games that will make me go out and purchase one right now. I just want to support competition.

 

[PhatSaqs]

What would you rename it to PhatSaqs?

Amir0xs Wall of Text