Fighting Games Weekly | Nov 24-30 | Fighting Geriatrics Community

Vanilla 98UM was Krauser anchors on literally every single team
 
That's the problem of team based games.

Seeing even one or two of the same character in nearly every team can be unsettling for many.
 
FSLink said:
I have played him in Brawl, and I mained him in Melee. Customs just makes him pretty fun (Dash Breaker being an interesting approach option/recovery option, the no hitbox upB that makes him have increased vertical recovery to be able to go off stage more with less consequence), and normal non-custom shield breaking actually being a legitimate shield breaker is pretty fun too, combined with tipper'd fSmashes killing at much lower percents than Brawl.

So yes, he is genuinely fun in this version to me, thanks.



I usually run Auto Reticle/Super Speed/Warp/Lightweight, but yeah Jump Glide is great fun.

Super Speed is probably one of the best custom moves in the game period.

For those who aren't familiar with Super Speed:
http://smashboards.com/threads/supe...ed-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-bair.374449/
Click to expand...

So you'd rather him have a gimped neutral game in exchange for a few fun gimmicks?

Coffeeling said:
Exactly the mindset I talked about earlier. See Karate => bleh no diversity. Team games concretely increase the chance of characters seeing play. I'm just trying to point out it's hypocritical to accuse KOF for lack of diverisity when:

SF4.
Cast size: 39-44
EVO top8 character representation:
2012: 9
2013: 10
2014: 12
Unique characters across three years: 23

2012 Finals: Akuma v. Adon
2013 Finals: Akuma v. Gen
2014 Finals: Rose v. Sagat
Unique characters in finals: 5

KOF13:
Cast size: 36
EVO top8 character representation:
2012: 20
2013: 15
2014: 16
Unique characters across three years: 25

2012 Finals: Duo/Chin/Kim vs. Billy/Takuma/Shen/Ralf/Clark/Benimaru
2013 Finals: Ryo/Takuma/Kim/Mai vs. Kim/Benimaru/Chin/EXKyo
2014 Finals: EXIori/Karate/Kim vs. EXIori/Karate/Chin
Unique characters in finals: 14

The whole cast would have to get played before people accepted KOF13 to be as diverse. The game has a smaller cast, routinely more of the cast see play both in relative and absolute terms, and the diversity over time is higher in both relative and absolute terms.

So what gives?

EDIT:
Id Global tournament bonus:
KOF13:
Cast size: 36
Unique characters used by top8 players: 14
Finals: Clark/Benimaru/EXIori/Daimon/Chin vs. EXIori/Karate/Kim (9 characters total)

SF4:
Cast size: 39
Unique characters used by top8 players: 7
Finals: Fei Long vs. Akuma
Click to expand...

BadWolf said:
EX Iori/Mr. Karate/Kim
EX Iori/Mr. Karate/Chin
Clark/Mr. Karate/EX Iori/Kim
Duo Lon/Daimon/Kim/Chin
EX Kyo/Benimaru/Billy
King/Takuma/Kim
Duo Lon/Iori/Shen
Yuri/Saiki/King

Those were the teams used by the Top 8 at Evo 2014.

Only three people used Mr Karate/EX Iori and those people are well known tier whores in general.

And it's a team based game so naturally there would be more overlap. The same thing would happen in SF4.
Click to expand...

Damn, you guys came with the raw data.

Guess its pretty unfair to compare a team game to a solo game anyways, I was just responding to the "SF4 is less diverse than people think" comment.

But you guys would have to agree that a few teams have pretty much become de facto optimal combinations at this point right? Like MvC3.
 
"Rise of Incarnates Q4" is looking sketchy, no?

Though really based on beta comments it seems to need a lot more time in the oven anyway.
 
Lots of SF3 this week
3 Hours of Melty Blood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSi0vGiT4Ac&list=UUCfnriDcUslGMUMX4Ctkyjg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGXsZf4IL3g&list=UUCfnriDcUslGMUMX4Ctkyjg

Street Fighter III 3rd Strike matches
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRVuNDfpp2o&list=UUSg9kalJ68NKCKZ38KAYm8g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyLay4sqE9c&list=UUSg9kalJ68NKCKZ38KAYm8g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD_WNCFtIx0&list=UUSg9kalJ68NKCKZ38KAYm8g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtRuzcIRmAM&list=UUSg9kalJ68NKCKZ38KAYm8g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk8C4lsymI0&list=UUSg9kalJ68NKCKZ38KAYm8g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37DyZf3GjuY&list=UUSg9kalJ68NKCKZ38KAYm8g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXkTpWau63g&list=UUSg9kalJ68NKCKZ38KAYm8g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ_XiPnCkUc&list=UUSg9kalJ68NKCKZ38KAYm8g
The follow sets are mainly Chun and Ken
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1CwnoKw1lY&list=UUSg9kalJ68NKCKZ38KAYm8g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYDf0mWHe1k&list=UUSg9kalJ68NKCKZ38KAYm8g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKxgNLfJbOQ&list=UUSg9kalJ68NKCKZ38KAYm8g

1 Hour of DoA 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH49PsDLdQI&list=UUkXtcsyQ6g8coNrclPvt29w

1 Hour of Under Night InBirth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84fp9dPHugA&list=UUkXtcsyQ6g8coNrclPvt29w

6+ Hours of Guilty Gear Xrd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIS1tv3txBs&list=UUkXtcsyQ6g8coNrclPvt29w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt6WENFfWow&list=UUkXtcsyQ6g8coNrclPvt29w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfZ9g_g_3nA&list=UUkXtcsyQ6g8coNrclPvt29w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs3sSvRo0T4&list=UUkXtcsyQ6g8coNrclPvt29w

1 Hour of Last Blade 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmy3De3lRc0&list=UUCfnriDcUslGMUMX4Ctkyjg

2+ Hours of Puyo Puyo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWuWBIFSJp0&list=UUCfnriDcUslGMUMX4Ctkyjg

1 Hour of BlazBlue CP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RElT_6emJvk&list=UUCfnriDcUslGMUMX4Ctkyjg

An extra 2+ Hours of Guilty Gear Xrd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DybT9Ctlkf4&list=UUCfnriDcUslGMUMX4Ctkyjg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeW4MrqieOM&list=UUCfnriDcUslGMUMX4Ctkyjg

An extra hour of DoA 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzWE0-r8ItY&list=UUCfnriDcUslGMUMX4Ctkyjg
 
Marz said:
Guess its pretty unfair to compare a team game to a solo game anyways, I was just responding to the "SF4 is less diverse than people think" comment.

But you guys would have to agree that a few teams have pretty much become de facto optimal combinations at this point right? Like MvC3.
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to disparage SF4's diversity - the game is clearly diverse and as much as I dislike it that diversity is amazing and entertaining. I was trying to disparage the attitude that KOF is lacking in variety in comparison.

The de facto team stuff happens because it's a team game - people don't tend to be attached to whole teams as strongly as to individual characters, and EX Iori and Karate are clearly the best (even if the gap to the rest isn't very big, it's clear that it exists) and work in any slot, so of course they'll see comparatively more play. Besides which it's just smart to play eg. Duo Lon on point, Shen as anchor and the like - those characters can compete with Iori and Karate when you play to their strengths, which means having proper structure to the team is important.

Playing the de facto tier whore team (maybe with Kim replaced with another universal character like Beni or Chin) primarily gives you the ability to game matchups by free reordering and a bit of extra % via better OCV and reverse OCV potential.

Basically:
ALTZYCe.png

None of these players are unduly favouring the typical tierwhore characters, IKK end up most played anyway because they go anywhere.
 
CountBlackule said:
Well I did post it like 80 times breh
Click to expand...

I've only just started to post in these threads after realising the smash ot is for chump change
:p

4 more days until super dodge bros U in the UK!

Haven't even played the 3ds version in ages, been working a lot and when I want to kick back and enjoy myself, my first port of call isn't an inferior version of an inferior game.

KTAR XI and discovering the grsmash YouTube channel didn't help my enthusiasm for the game.
 
Marz said:
But you guys would have to agree that a few teams have pretty much become de facto optimal combinations at this point right? Like MvC3.
Click to expand...
Not "teams", but certain characters at certain positions. Overall, I think the balance in KoFXIII(excluding the top 3) is better than that of SF4, you wont see a DJ tier in KoF13, but that has more to do with the neutrality of the game, the standard tools that every character have access to in KoF help a lot in preventing scenarios like Gief vs Sagat.

KoFXIII is by far my favorite FG this gen, but it suffers a lot from SNK's lack of support, game hasn't been patched since the console release, and it doesn't help that the DLC characters were intentionally made OP.
 
Sayad said:
Not "teams", but certain characters at certain positions. Overall, I think the balance in KoFXIII(excluding the top 3) is better than that of SF4, you wont see a DJ tier in KoF13, but that has more to do with the neutrality of the game, the standard tools that every character have access to in KoF help a lot in preventing scenarios like Gief vs Sagat.

KoFXIII is by far my favorite FG this gen, but it suffers a lot from SNK's lack of support, game hasn't been patched since the console release, and it doesn't help that the DLC characters were intentionally made OP.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure it's even appropriate to list Kim alongside EX Iori and Karate. I'd pretty much write a tier list like:
EX Iori
Karate
[a bunch of great characters]
[a bunch of good characters]
Robert (Kappa)

or something to that effect (a single list for the game is a stupid idea anyway, position-specific ones would be much better). Gaps between tiers very small, esp. between Iori, Karate and the top tier.

Otherwise agreed for the most part. Some characters are just really damn good at their jobs or all jobs and see a lot of play. I don't think the lack of patches is a bad thing though, the system and characters are balanced well enough. Lack of support otherwise is/was bad though, but given SNKP's finances...
 
Wow my HRAP4 randomly came in today. Wasn't expecting that at all considering I ordered it over the weekend.

Ready for that Xrd demo!
 
Master Milk said:
tweaked my smash controls a bit

removed jump from the stick, made y shield, x is still jump, tilts on right stick
Click to expand...

Y ON SHEILD!? BUH HOW U WAVEDASH!?

Oh it's Smash 4. May as well put jump on the power button of the console.

Serious note, what controller are you using?

Coffeeling said:
I'm not sure it's even appropriate to list Kim alongside EX Iori and Karate. I'd pretty much write a tier list like:
EX Iori
Karate
[a bunch of great characters]
[a bunch of good characters]
Robert (Kappa)

or something to that effect (a single list for the game is a stupid idea anyway, position-specific ones would be much better). Gaps between tiers very small, esp. between Iori, Karate and the top tier.

Otherwise agreed for the most part. Some characters are just really damn good at their jobs or all jobs and see a lot of play. I don't think the lack of patches is a bad thing though, the system and characters are balanced well enough. Lack of support otherwise is/was bad though, but given SNKP's finances...
Click to expand...

Really? Because I don't think much of EX Kyo.
 
Coffeeling said:
I'm not sure it's even appropriate to list Kim alongside EX Iori and Karate. I'd pretty much write a tier list like:
EX Iori
Karate
[a bunch of great characters]
[a bunch of good characters]
Robert (Kappa)

or something to that effect (a single list for the game is a stupid idea anyway, position-specific ones would be much better). Gaps between tiers very small, esp. between Iori, Karate and the top tier.
Click to expand...
Normally yes, the game need a position specific tier list, Karate and EX Iori don't though. ;p
Karate would be top/near top in every positions while EX Iori, execution aside, would be the absolute top at every position, it's just a waste to have his meter build ability and meter-less ToD anywhere but point.
 
Anth0ny said:
I definitely want to learn greninja too.


Horrible realization: I had more fun playing brawl Marth, meta knight and snake than ANYONE in smash 4 so far :(
Click to expand...

Honestly, I think you'd be best served going exclusively Greninja. That character is legit fun and one of the few in the cast I've played where everything just feels right/you aren't running into an artificial wall every time you do something. It also helps that his "gimmicks" aren't all hit or miss. Dude can put you in the blender forever and actually hits hard when necessary (sorry Sheik).

FSLink said:
I have played him in Brawl, and I mained him in Melee. Customs just makes him pretty fun (Dash Breaker being an interesting approach option/recovery option, the no hitbox upB that makes him have increased vertical recovery to be able to go off stage more with less consequence), and normal non-custom shield breaking actually being a legitimate shield breaker is pretty fun too, combined with tipper'd fSmashes killing at much lower percents than Brawl.

So yes, he is genuinely fun in this version to me, thanks.
Click to expand...

I can understand this but given how amazingly impractical they've made accessing customs in the Wii U version before matches and the strong resulting possibility that they'll be overlooked for any competitive consideration (on top of some of the conditions for getting all the customs via challenge wall), I think I've all but given up on the custom dream. Sucks too, Zero Suit Samus with her Rider Kick custom is just about the funniest fucking thing ever. On top of it hitting harder that Eminem's verse on Renegade, it also doubles as the most bustedest recovery ever. :lol

That said, Brawl Marth killed off of anything (shoutouts to tipper nair killing at like 65ish on some stages) and actually had real combos in that game (he was made of magic in that game I swear lol). I can definitely see where Marz comes from.
 
I'm wondering if Xrd is going to get the level of discussion that Smash is presently enjoying in these threads.. Looking forward to that demo next month :D I haven't played a GG game since... #R
 
Sayad said:
Normally yes, the game need a position specific tier list, Karate and EX Iori don't though. ;p
Karate would be top/near top in every positions while EX Iori, execution aside, would be the absolute top at every position, it's just a waste to have his meter build ability and meter-less ToD anywhere but point.
Click to expand...

Not that he even needs it - just his meterless rekkas => monster oki => rekkas loop is enough to make him the best point in the game.

BumblebeeCody said:
Really? Because I don't think much of EX Kyo.
Click to expand...

Is this supposed to be directed at Sayad? And yeah, I wouldn't call EX Kyo overpowered. He's good, but there's a good number of better point/battery characters in the game.
 
By the type of "data" you guys are pulling out I can show you that MVC3 has as good a character variety as KOF at EVO especially for finals.

Ultra has shown a more diverse display of characters than pretty much any other fighter out there for the year 2014. Things get muddled up when you use SSF4AE data to counter that USF4 doesn't have variety. It also gets muddled up when you compare a 3v3 fighter vs a 1v1 fighter.


Now balance is a different thing because you factor in Dee Jay vs best character in the game vs KOF's best vs worst and you will see tiers are closer in KOF. But of course when you have over 40 characters and your game is reasonably balanced it's not that difficult to get 7-8 unique characters vs getting 18 unique characters in a 3v3 (more chance for overlap if you don't include one off pocket characters).
 
I think the character variety complaint is more of a "the nuances in playstyles aren't readily apparent" complaint. To the untrained eye most of the players and characters in KOF top 8 (outside of Chin or Duo Lon) play exactly the same. One great thing about SF4 finals at EVO this year is the massive difference in playstyles between players who play the same character.
 
Marz said:
Brawl Marth is way faster, fluid, and powerful than this watered down version. I don't know if you actually played Brawl Marth or if laggy, shitty Marth is just genuinely fun in your mind.
Click to expand...
He uses Diddy, pretty sure he doesn't have good taste in characters :P
 
AlexSA2 said:
OP's post forgot to mention the KOF UM's coming to Steam very soon.

Also, FightCade got updated again. 3S feels really good, comparable to 3SOE post-patch.
Click to expand...

Fightcade needs a lot more players for it to be a solid platform vs ggpo.

The one thing they have going for it is that they have way more games available.
 
Dahbomb said:
Justin Marvelous Wong already whooped that guy's ass in a MM. And it was fucking free.
Click to expand...

That's not the point, mahvel will always be his game. He said in that conversation that he wasn't touching any game not named Ultra SF4 because he was preparing for Capcom Cup. Then winners/grand finals happened. Granted, they are winners/grand finals and he made it there but it was worrying watching his Rufus getting dismantled (and then choosing poison...) in a matchup he calls almost even but in rufus' favor. Hopefully he'll do better in Capcom Cup.

Master Milk said:
tweaked my smash controls a bit

removed jump from the stick, made y shield, x is still jump, tilts on right stick
Click to expand...

First thing you should do IMO.
 
Smash is a lot of fun but there's just something about it that feels boring. Nothing is really on the line when you play so it just has that casual mash buttons feeling that makes me not get into it as much. I guess I like huge models on the screen and more traditional fighting games so GG Xrd is gonna be hella hype. I feel like Tekken 7 is gonna be the real deal of next gen fighting games though.
 
LUCKY n WILD said:
Smash is a lot of fun but there's just something about it that feels boring. Nothing is really on the line when you play so it just has that casual mash buttons feeling that makes me not get into it as much. I guess I like huge models on the screen and more traditional fighting games so GG Xrd is gonna be hella hype. I feel like Tekken 7 is gonna be the real deal of next gen fighting games though.
Click to expand...

If you're talking about a four-player free-for-all with items turned on, then yeah Smash just seems like a casual random bashfest. But one-on-one, Omega stage, no items feels as serious to me as any other fighting game.
 
JeTmAn81 said:
If you're talking about a four-player free-for-all with items turned on, then yeah Smash just seems like a casual random bashfest. But one-on-one, Omega stage, no items feels as serious to me as any other fighting game.
Click to expand...

Yeah I actually was digging the one on one for the whole camera being closer to the action feel and to understand the more subtle nuances of the game. Analog control for a fighting game just always feels a bit off after being so used to digital control.
 
My story with Smash is a continuous struggle against the control. The game would benefit a lot from a less obtuse movements. It's my first Smash and I'm liking it a lot though.
 
AnneIFrank said:
N-O says he is dropping Rachel, rip the god.
Click to expand...

ひっちゃん @HiagoXYZ · 20m 20 minutes ago

Apparently Galileo stopped playing BB altogether to play Koihime Musou. He doesn't even has BB in his twitter description anymore.
Click to expand...
lmaooooo

Edit: Not sure why I find the news of a player switching to another game so funny, but still. :V
 
The only game where I can't stand the top tier is in CVS2. Every major match I see has some combo of Blanka and Sagat, to the point where seeing SNK characters is rare. Heck, even seeing a popular mainstay like Ryu becomes a surprise. Still an amazing fighter though.

Also, have the CVS2 matches from Reloaded 37 been uploaded to Youtube?
 
Galileo switching to put himself in prime position to take another EVO title
 
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