Link. I know he's not the best and wasn't expecting to be winning a lot of battles with him, but man I didn't think I would be getting my ass whooped that hard. He's slow as hell and it takes a pretty skilled fighter to be good with him competitively. I switched to Little Mac/Captain Falcon and still getting my ass kicked, but doing A LOT better than before. They're both powerful and easy to use for noobs, but I still have to get better at using my shield and predicting the opponent's next move.
Didn't they correspond in letters and stuff? I'm pretty sure I heard that mentioned. I mean, what kind of relationship maintains itself for two years of absolutely zero contact?
Either way, doesn't matter if you can rationally blame Bolin or not. The point I'm making is that she is grieving. Asking her to be rational at a time like this is like asking you to juggle when you have a BAC level of .22. It just isn't going to happen and it's not her fault.
I don't recall that being mentioned. Also Opal did the same thing at Zaofu when talking to Korra. Korra's line saying "Kuvira was just defending herself" could be seen as a bit off, but Opal was still acting like her mom was all in the right, even there. You're pretty much supporting my point that she is irrational. You act like it's completely impossible to be rational in that situation, and it's not. This just reminds me too much of the type of scenario where someone will always blindly be on someone's side (like the child of a parent or good friends) regardless of whether or not they're actually right. Of course i'm not saying thats exactly what's going on here, but that's what it reminds me of.
You could say the emotions and worries she has for her family clouding her judgement is understandable, but it doesn't mean it's not a negative trait or a flaw with her personality.
I don't recall that being mentioned. Also Opal did the same thing at Zaofu when talking to Korra. Korra's line saying "Kuvira was just defending herself" could be seen as a bit off, but Opal was still acting like her mom was all in the right, even there. You're pretty much supporting my point that she is irrational. You act like it's completely impossible to be rational in that situation, and it's not. This just reminds me too much of the type of scenario where someone will always blindly be on someone's side (like the child of a parent or good friends) regardless of whether or not they're actually right. Of course i'm not saying thats exactly what's going on here, but that's what it reminds me of.
You could say the emotions and worries she has for her family clouding her judgement is understandable, but it doesn't mean it's not a negative trait or a flaw with her personality.
Yeah, I'm not arguing against the irrationality of Opal. But I am saying her irrationality shouldn't be a mark against her.
Lets go with your scenerio. Okay, it is possible to be rational despite intense grief and pain. Why does it being possible mean it's easy? Or even preferable, for that matter? We evolved irrationality for damn good reason and you are meant to use it, for situations specifically like this one.
And it's not like she'd gain anything from the situation by being rational. In this case, rationality would be solely for the benefit of Bolin, and she doesn't feel like being nice to Bolin for understandable reasons. Pretty much the only way it would be of benefit to her is if she were in the recovery process, where she is supposed to let go of the pain. But that's not what your supposed to do when the threat is ongoing. You simplify the mental process. Threat is bad. Those against threat good. Those not, bad. We'd have died out long ago if we wondered whether or not other predators had as much a right to eat us as we did them. Even if Opal felt the obligation to be rational, that kind of internal instinct is hard to ignore because it is for the benefit of survival. And in fact, that's what's happening now. She probably wouldn't be going on the rescue mission if she was spending time the wondering whether her mom deserves the moral rammifications of an assassination attempt.
Yeah, I'm not arguing against the irrationality of Opal. But I am saying her irrationality shouldn't be a mark against her.
Lets go with your scenerio. Okay, it is possible to be rational despite intense grief and pain. Why does it being possible mean it's easy? Or even preferable, for that matter? We evolved irrationality for damn good reason and you are meant to use it, for situations specifically like this one.
And it's not like she'd gain anything from the situation by being rational. In this case, rationality would be solely for the benefit of Bolin, and she doesn't feel like being nice to Bolin for understandable reasons. Pretty much the only way it would be of benefit to her is if she were in the recovery process, where she is supposed to let go of the pain. But that's not what your supposed to do when the threat is ongoing.
I'm sure, in a distant time later, given time to reflect, Opal might agree with you.
I'm not even sure what morality you are pleading to here. "Her mom might have done a bad thing and her demonization might be unjustified?" Uh..okay, glad we took time from the rescue mission of saving her still mostly good mom's life from Earth Hitler to establish that.
Even if you are right, what I'm saying I don't see how it's useful in this situation. This would be solely for Bolin's benefit so he doesn't feel as bad for being an idiot for the last 2 years (which he was for not looking closer at Kuvira), and Opal has bigger problems right now than nursing his hurt feelings. He can deal with some vindictiveness. Losing a mother? That's harder, and if anyone should know that, it's little orphan boy, Bolin.
Probably a little late for this, but I'd love to see an Avatar series with no limits. You know, nothing censored for a children's show (it would still have the humor.) I don't know where you'd put it. Maybe Adult Swim? I dunno.
I'm sure, in a distant time later, given time to reflect, Opal might agree with you.
I'm not even sure what morality you are pleading to here. "Her mom might have done a bad thing and her demonization might be unjustified?" Uh..okay, glad we took time from the rescue mission of saving her still mostly good mom's life from Earth Hitler to establish that.
Even if you are right, what I'm saying I don't see how it's useful in this situation. This would be solely for Bolin's benefit so he doesn't feel as bad for being an idiot for the last 2 years (which he was for not looking closer at Kuvira), and Opal has bigger problems right now than nursing his hurt feelings.
Bolin's feelings may not deserve to be hurt, but what kind of lunatic would say they take priority over her feelings about her potentially tortured and killed mother? Priorities, man.
Why would you think it's crazy for her to acknowledge the fault in her mom's actions in that scenario? I don't think her actual reaction was crazy, but I will still a bit annoyed that she doesn't seem to see that she screwed up. A simple acknowledgement of her bad judgement would have left me feeling better off about the whole thing. Like a *gasp* "Why would she do that!" and then she could be like "Arrrgghhgh we gotta save her!"
She definitely doesn't have to keep her animosity towards Bolin. She'd probably be better off herself if she had only focused on saving her family rather than irrationally hating Bolin on the side along with that to be quite honest. It honestly doesn't matter what's going on to her here. You're saying her emotional circumstances are fueling her irrationality, and that the only benefit she'd have for forgiving Bolin would be so Bolin feels better, but that still doesn't mean it wouldn't be the right thing to do. Also I don't think it would only benefit Bolin. Considering we both seem to be agreeing that (or you at least half agreeing) that Opal's hate towards Bolin is irrational, if she just started thinking about it rationally for a bit and saw that she shouldn't be giving him such a hard time, I think it'd definitely benefit her too. She wouldn't have her mind crowded with hate of Bolin and instead only be focused on what really should matter to her.
Probably a little late for this, but I'd love to see an Avatar series with no limits. You know, nothing censored for a children's show (it would still have the humor.) I don't know where you'd put it. Maybe Adult Swim? I dunno.
Netflix or Amazon Prime would be good options also as they're both recently started producing more original animated shows. Plus no restrictions for either of them also. Still Mike and Bryan really don't have much of a say in the future of the franchise as the IP is owned by Viacom.
I wouldn't be surprised if Nick announced a more kid friendly avatar series within the next couple of years or so.
Netflix or Amazon Prime would be good options also as they're both recently started producing more original animated shows. Plus no restrictions for either of them also. Still Mike and Bryan really don't have much of a say in the future of the franchise as the IP is owned by Viacom.
I wouldn't be surprised if Nick announced a more kid friendly avatar series within the next couple of years or so.
Eh, I wouldn't be over-the-top excited for another Bryke series. If they were to make another show, they would need to take a step back and take a look at what made ATLA so great.
Why would you think it's crazy for her to acknowledge the fault in her mom's actions in that scenario? I don't think her actual reaction was crazy, but I will still a bit annoyed that she doesn't seem to see that she screwed. A simple acknowledgement of her bad judgement would have left me feeling better off about the whole thing. Like a *gasp* "Why would she do that!" and then she could be like "Arrrgghhgh we gotta save her!"
She definitely doesn't have to keep her animosity towards Bolin. She'd probably be better off herself if she had only focused on saving her family rather than irrationally hating Bolin on the side along with that to be quite honest. It honestly doesn't matter what's going on to her here. You're saying her emotional circumstances are fueling her irrationality, and that the only benefit she'd have for forgiving Bolin would be so Bolin feels better, but it doesn't change the fact that it wouldn't be the right thing to do. Also I don't think it would only benefit Bolin. Considering we both seem to be agreeing that (or you at least half agreeing) that Opal's hate towards Bolin is irrational, if she just started thinking about it rationally for a bit and saw that she shouldn't be giving him such a hard time, I think it'd definitely benefit her too. She wouldn't have her mind crowded with hate of Bolin and instead only be focused on what really should matter to her.
I don't think it's crazy. I just think it's unimportant. Who cares of Suyin screwed up? Who cares if she didn't? They can talk about the moral ramification of her actions when her life is not in immediate danger.
And your wrong about it being good for her. What that kind of forgiveness you're talking about is good for is the recovery process of grief, when it's no longer possible to save what has been lost and you can't do anything with the anger you are holding onto. But during the process of loss? When the threat is still active and the lost thing can still be saved? That's precisely the time for anger and irrationality. Psychologically, it makes up a good part of our autonomic fight or flight response. If we didn't have that, our species would have died out a long time ago, debating the morality of darwinism as tigers gnawed on our entrails. It exists as a fundamental psychological mechanism for a reason. I remember an article talking about soldiers and how they are trained to think in combat situations. How they have to think "What the fuck, he's shooting at ME?! How fucking dare he!" That's irrational too. Why wouldn't an enemy soldier shoot at you? But your suppose to take it as a personal affront, so you get more angry, so you get more adreneline and aggressiveness that will help you survive or even win the fire fight. Our anger and irrationality is very, very important.
So, as I said, on her feelings with Bolin...boo hoo. Seriously, it's some vindictiveness, s portion of which he deserves for being oblivious in the first place anyway. He'll live. Her mom might not. I'm not saying your wrong. It is wrong to not make Bolin feel like shit. But who fucking cares. Bolin can live through some harsh language, Suyin might not live through Kuvira's treatment.
I can't see how you do not see one is astronomically more important than the other. Because you're not wrong, on a technical level. It is wrong that she is giving Bolin shit. But this is like seeing your girlfriend mugged, and you scream "YOU SON OF A BITCH!" and run to help her, only to be stopped by a bystander who takes issue with your use of ad hominen, a logical fallacy, and that you are calling a woman you don't even know a bitch. He's not wrong. Son of a bitch is a bad thing to say, to whoever. But only a crazy person would argue that it matters when a fucking crime and potential murder is taking place. One of these immoral actions is negligible. The other is not. Guess which is which.
I don't think it's crazy. I just think it's unimportant. Who cares of Suyin screwed up? Who cares if she didn't? They can talk about the moral ramification of her actions when her life is not in immediate danger.
And your wrong about it being good for her. What that kind of forgiveness you're talking about is good for is the recovery process of grief, when it's no longer possible to save what has been lost and you can't do anything with the anger you are holding onto. But during the process of loss? When the threat is still active and the lost thing can still be saved? That's precisely the time for anger and irrationality. Psychologically, it makes up a good part of our autonomic fight or flight response. If we didn't have that, our species would have died out a long time ago. It exists as a fundamental psychological mechanism for a reason. I remember an article talking about soldiers and how they are trained to think in combat situations. How they have to think "What the fuck, he's shooting at ME?! How fucking dare he!" That's irrational too. Why wouldn't an enemy soldier shoot at you? But your suppose to take it as a personal affront, so you get more angry, so you get more adreneline and aggressiveness that will help you survive or even win the fire fight. Our anger and irrationality is very, very important.
So, as I said, on her feelings with Bolin...boo hoo. Seriously, it's some vindictiveness, most of which he deserved for being oblivious in the first place. He'll live. Her mom might not. I'm not saying your wrong. It is wrong to not make Bolin feel like shit. But who fucking cares. Bolin can live through some harsh language, Suyin might not live through Kuvira's treatment.
I can't see how you do not see one is astronomically more important than the other. Because you're not wrong, on a technical level. It is wrong that she is giving Bolin shit. But this is like seeing your girlfriend mugged, and you scream "YOU SON OF A BITCH!" and run to help her, only to be stopped by a bystander who takes issue with your use of ad hominen, a logical fallacy, and that you are calling a woman you don't even know a bitch. He's not wrong, but only a crazy person would argue that it matters.
You may say it's unimportant, but I think that particular moment in Zaofu showed a big aspect of her personality. She seemed so against any kind of rationality that her mom was even slightly in the wrong there. Her mom literally tried to assassinate Kuvira in her sleep during a temporary vow of peace. Opal was mad at Korra for saying "She was just trying to defend herself" (which like I said before, could be seen as a little off), but what the heck would she expect Kuvira to do? Kuvira was essentially defending herself there. She's lucky she didn't try to kill her right there.
You keep making all of these examples to compare to this situation, but it not the same deal. Opal realizing that she shouldn't be giving Bolin such a hard time (or that her mom screwed up) would in no way would be somehow jeopardizing her, or her mom's well being.
I also find it a bit ridiculous you seem to be implying that we should always succumb to our primal instincts.
forgive me if I understood that part wrong. don't OPAL out on me right now
Eh, I wouldn't be over-the-top excited for another Bryke series. If they were to make another show, they would need to take a step back and take a look at what made ATLA so great.
That too though I would definitely be interested if they did go ahead with that Peanuts meets FLCL show they're been talking about for years. Just to so how such a concept would work.
But yeah they should really take a good long look at what went right and wrong for LOK.
You may say it's unimportant, but I think that particular moment in Zaofu showed a big aspect of her personality. She seemed so against any kind of rationality that her mom was even slightly in the wrong there. Her mom literally tried to assassinate Kuvira in her sleep during a temporary vow of peace. Opal was mad at Korra for saying "She was just trying to defend herself" (which like I said before, could be seen as a little off), but what the heck would she expect Kuvira to do? Kuvira was essentially defending herself there. She'd lucky she didn't try to kill her right there.
You keep making all of these examples to compare to this situation, but it not the same deal. Opal realizing that she shouldn't be giving Bolin such a hard time in no way would be somehow jeopardizing her, or her mom's well being.
Again, irrationalty. It's not clean, but it is a survival mechanism. Trash talking Bolin isn't helping her, but it's certainly not hurting her and she is within her rights to not forgive him just because everyone else did. It is keeping her focused on her mom instead of wasting mental effort trying to work out the morals of the situation with Bolin. It'd be a distraction if she did, and as far as her autonomic nervous system is concerned, that is a bad thing, whether that is the case in reality or not (and it is a bad thing in reality, but in an indirect way. It's very difficult to draw a distinct line to how thinking about another thing takes away from the energy of the first thing, but studies have shown it happens. She might not have found the will, for example, to go on the rescue trip if she was trying to think about everything rationally).
As for the assassination attempt, as far as I can tell, she simply hasn't commented on the matter or just objects when the topic is turned away from her rescue. She doesn't care, that's all, she just wants her mom rescued, and the rest can sort itself out. And most people would be the same in the exact situation. Even if you are arguing that you can be rational in times of crisis (And keep in mind, Opal being rational regarding the assassination would be of benefit to precisely no one, since the objective would still be the same: save Suyin), then you still acknowledge how hard it is to do so and she shouldn't be faulted for failing to do so.
As for my examples, you say they don't work, but you don't say why. Your objection to what pretty much everything I am saying seems to be "But Veelk, she really IS being really irrational! And that's automatically bad, even though I'm not pointing how that would be good if she was rational except on a general moral principle that is trivial compared to the dire situation at hand!" If I'm misunderstanding, please feel free to correct me, but I'm just not seeing what your argument here is that she is not being rational and not really accepting the reasons for it. Even you only seem to say that "being angry with bolin doesn't help suyin". Which is an very rational conclusion to arrive at, meaning you're basically saying being irrational here is wrong because it's not rational. Tautology, not good.
The only way your argument makes sense if is if you're saying Opal is causing Korra and Bolin emotional anguish approaching the level of her pain and fear of her mother being tortured and killed through her outbursts and vindictiveness, and I think you can see the problem with that.
Obviously not. There are times where we need to be rational in times of crisis. But most times, that's not the case. And let me be clear: I'm not saying we can't help but succumb to them. I'm saying we ought to. Our primal instincts are a survival mechanism for a good reason.
And, as I said in my above argument, you are not providing strong reasoning for why Opal shouldn't except general niceness, which is laughably trivial compared to what she is facing.
Again, irrationalty. It's not clean, but it is a survival mechanism. Trash talking Bolin isn't helping her, but it's certainly not hurting her and she is within her rights to not forgive him just because everyone else did. It is keeping her focused on her mom instead of wasting mental effort trying to work out the morals of the situation with Bolin. It'd be a distraction if she did, and as far as her autonomic nervous system is concerned, that is a bad thing, whether that is the case in reality or not.
As for the assassination attempt, as far as I can tell, she simply hasn't commented on the matter or objects when the topic is turned away from her rescue. She doesn't care, that's all. And most people would be the same in the exact situation. Even if you are arguing that you can be rational in times of crisis (And keep in mind, Opal being rational regarding the assassination would be of benefit to precisely no one, since the objective would still be the same: save Suyin), then you still acknowledge how hard it is to do so and she shouldn't be faulted for failing to do so.
As for my examples, you say they don't work, but you don't say why. Your objection to what pretty much everything I am saying seems to be "But Veelk, she really IS being really irrational! And that's automatically bad, even though I'm not pointing how that would be good if she was rational except on a general moral principle that is tawdry compared to the dire situation at hand!" If I'm misunderstanding, please feel free to correct me, but I'm just not seeing what your argument here is that she is not being rational and not really accepting the reasons for it. Even you only seem to say that "being angry with bolin doesn't help suyin". Which is an very rational conclusion to arrive at, meaning you're basically saying being irrational here is wrong because it's not rational.
I did tell you why I disagreed with your examples. You're giving war scenarios and saying that without this irrationality, humanity wouldn't have survived. I said that her forgiving Bolin here (or realizing that her mom screwed up) would in no way put herself or her mom more at risk.
Why would taking a few minutes to think rationally to the point of forgiving Bolin somehow be make things worse for her? Instead of worrying about her family AND being mad at Bolin all day, she would only be thinking about what she should be thinking about.
You can't really say she hasn't commented on the matter when Korra directly addressed it with her. She was just like "I can't believe you're taking her side!" (or something along the lines of that right?) Like really, a simple "But we still have to save her!" would have raised no red flags from me.
And, as I said in my above argument, you are not providing strong reasoning for why Opal shouldn't except general niceness, which is laughably trivial compared to what she is facing.
Just the way she's handling everything here, regardless of whether or not acting differently would help or hurt her main objective, still shows off a lot to me about her personality, and why i'm finding her to be quite annoying as of late.
EDIT: For me it's not even really just about showing "general niceness," it's about not being annoying every time you're on screen. Of course every time is an exaggeration... kinda. Like I found her annoying when she was pouting to Korra this episode, but that's mainly because of how I already perceived her based on some of her past actions. It's not because I thought her pouting was particularly unjustified.
I did tell you why I disagreed with your examples. You're giving war scenarios and saying that without this irrationality, humanity would no longer exist. I said that her forgiving Bolin here (or realizing that her mom screwed up) would in no way put herself or her mom more at risk.
Why would taking a few minutes to think rationally to the point of forgiving Bolin somehow be make things worse for her? Instead of worrying about her family AND being mad at Bolin all day, she would only be thinking about what she should be thinking about.
You can't really say she hasn't commented on the matter when Korra directly addressed it with her. She was just like "I can't believe you're taking her side!" (or something along the lines of that right?) Like really, a simple "But we still have to save her!" would have raised no red flags from me.
That's the thing. It would be worse for her. It's how our brains work. We shut down EVERYTHING else in moments of crisis. It's very simple. Kuvira = bad. Mom = Good. Bolin attached to Kuvira. Bolin Bad. Now he's not, but that would require her rearranging mental processes, it would require going through the last two years, wondering if he's really sorry just for fucking up or sorry for her because he's about to lose her, wondering what happens next wondering...
It's distracting, and as far as her brain is concerned, ALL her thought ought to be bent on saving her mother, so if he's not actively helping with that, he's a distraction. Same with Korra. It doesn't matter if Kuvira might have had a good reason, right now she has her mother, and there is nothing else that is relevant. And it doesn't just work for war circumstances (though it should be pointed out that Opal IS in a war...so, you know...kinda relevant), but in most situations in general. We use our ability to generalize and don't think about how irrational it is all day because we would be effectively cripppled without it. Autistic people can't read emotions well because they actually take in more features than us they look on a face,
Just the way she's handling everything here, regardless of whether or not acting differently would help or hurt her main objective, still shows off a lot to me about her personality, and why i'm finding her to be quite annoying as of late.
Lets hope you never get invited to any funerals then. Grieving people tend to act irrationally. "God, why are all these people crying? Don't they know that it's not going to bring them back? It's not good to cry and anyway the dead person would want them to be happy. What stupids, how irrational they are."
Just the way she's handling everything here, regardless of whether or not acting differently would help or hurt her main objective, still shows off a lot to me about her personality, and why i'm finding her to be quite annoying as of late.
EDIT: For me it's not even really just about showing "general niceness," it's about not being annoying every time you're on screen. Of course every time is an exaggeration... kinda. Like I found her annoying when she was pouting to Korra this episode, but that's mainly because of how I already perceived her based on some of her past actions. It's not because I thought her pouting was particularly unjustified.
If you want a character to truly be a character, and not a dancing monkey, then you have to make room for unentertaining shit. Schindler's list is not a fun movie, not entertaining or enjoyable in the true senses of the word, but one of the many reasons its a good movie because characters are allowed to act how they would naturally react in those circumstance. Opal shouldn't have an obligation to please you when circumstances call her to be short with both Bolin and Korra. It would be crazy to expect a person to be perfectly rational in those kinds of situations. If you allow LoK to even have a chance of reaching TLA heights, then you need to see Opal as an actual character, ask if what she did made sense within her character, not if she was entertained you while grieving for her mom.
That's the thing. It would be worse for her. It's how our brains work. We shut down EVERYTHING else in moments of crisis. It's very simple. Kuvira = bad. Mom = Good. Bolin attached to Kuvira. Bolin Bad. Now he's not, but that would require her rearranging mental processes, it would require going through the last two years, wondering if he's really sorry just for fucking up or sorry for her because he's about to lose her, wondering what happens next wondering...
It's distracting, and as far as her brain is concerned, ALL her thought ought to be bent on saving her mother, so if he's not actively helping with that, he's a distraction. Same with Korra. It doesn't matter if Kuvira might have had a good reason, right now she has her mother, and there is nothing else that is relevant. And it doesn't just work for war circumstances (though it should be pointed out that Opal IS in a war...so, you know...kinda relevant), but in most situations in general. We use our ability to generalize and don't think about how irrational it is all day because we would be effectively cripppled without it. Autistic people can't read emotions well because they actually take in more features than us they look on a face,
I just completely disagree with your whole stance here. It's no where near necessary to always see things with such a simplistic view when there is some kind of bad situation going on. In a lot of cases, I think it is better to think these things through, because not thinking about it could cause you to do something rash, or something that you will ultimately regret.
When I referenced your war scenario, I was saying that it would hurt to try to think rationally if you are literally in the middle of battle with people shooting at you. In this case, she doesn't put anything at risk by thinking rationally.
Lets hope you never get invited to any funerals then. Grieving people tend to act irrationally. "God, why are all these people crying? Don't they know that it's not going to bring them back? It's not good to cry and anyway the dead person would want them to be happy. What stupids, how irrational they are."
If you want a character to truly be a character, and not a dancing monkey, then you have to make room for unentertaining shit. Schindler's list is not a fun movie, not entertaining or enjoyable in the true senses of the word, but one of the many reasons its a good movie because characters are allowed to act how they would naturally react in those circumstance. Opal shouldn't have an obligation to please you when circumstances call her to be short with both Bolin and Korra. It would be crazy to expect a person to be perfectly rational in those kinds of situations. If you allow LoK to even have a chance of reaching TLA heights, then you need to see Opal as an actual character, ask if what she did made sense within her character, not if she was entertained you while grieving for her mom.
Of course. I think Suyin was being an idiot, and that Opal is being needlessly irrational was kind of annoying. I don't exactly take points off the plot/characters soley for a character having flaws, but that also doesn't make it immune to criticism. That's the same type of logic that could defend the season 2 cast.
In Opal's case here, I don't find her thinking rationally here would be crazy at all. Like at all. If Opal had acknowledged that that she knew her mom was wrong to do what she did, you really think people would start talking about "Oh, she showed that she knew her mom was wrong! So unrealistic!"
I just completely disagree with your whole stance here. It's no where near necessary to always see things with such a simplistic view when there is some kind of bad situation going on. In a lot of cases, I think it is better to think these things through, because not thinking about it could cause you to do something rash, or something that you will ultimately regret.
When I referenced your war scenario, I was saying that it would hurt to try to think rationally if you are literally in the middle of battle with people shooting at you. In this case, she doesn't put anything at risk by thinking rationally.
Well, I got the scientific evidence to back it up. Look it up yourself. As I said, I study these things, so I don't know what else to tell you. I was using the war scenerio because it came to mind quickest. In reality, that kind of irrational thinking helps you out all the time. You have a test coming up? "Fuck you, teacher. I'm gonna study the shit out of this test, because I'm an amazing studier, and you'll see how well I do." Even if you are an awful studier, and your teacher isn't out to get you, creating some kind of narrative in your head that focus' your all your efforts on it shows greater improvement over students who just take it as a normal test. This is true even when the students lying to themselves know they are lying to themselves.
Our irrational brains are a HUGE part in everything we do, and yes, forcing rationality would hinder it.
Yeah I hope you know you're being completely ridiculous now.
I was merely mimicking you. You project this idea that rationality is beneficial in all situations, regardless of actual circumstances. Had you talked to me a few years ago before I started studying psychology, I would have agreed. Now I know it's not true.
Of course. I think Suyin was being an idiot, and that Opal is being needlessly irrational was kind of annoying. I don't exactly take points off the plot/characters soley for a character having flaws, but that also doesn't make it immune to criticism. That's the same type of logic that could defend the season 2 cast.
In Opal's case here, I don't find her thinking rationally here would be crazy at all. Like at all. If Opal had acknowledged that that she knew her mom was wrong to do what she did, you really think people would start talking about "Oh, she showed that she knew her mom was wrong! So unrealistic!"
I'm not saying it would be crazy. I'm saying, know what else isn't crazy? Not doing that.
Season 2 cast is a whole different basket of eggs. There, decisions were being made on faulty logic that had no reason to be that stupid. It's not comparable to directly having your mom, and I cannot emphasize this enough, fucking tortured, and then ignoring trivialities like being nice to your idiot boyfriend whose come back tale between his legs after 2 years of running off with the enemy.
Well, I got the scientific evidence to back it up. Look it up yourself. As I said, I study these things, so I don't know what else to tell you. I was using the war scenerio because it came to mind quickest. In reality, that kind of irrational thinking helps you out all the time. You have a test coming up? "Fuck you, teacher. I'm gonna study the shit out of this test, because I'm an amazing studier, and you'll see how well I do." Even if you are an awful studier, and your teacher isn't out to get you, creating a narrative in your head that focus' your all your efforts on it by making it out to be a competition shows greater improvement over students who just take it as a normal test. This is true even when the students lying to themselves know they are lying to themselves.
Our irrational brains are a HUGE part in everything we do, and yes, forcing rationality would hinder it.
I was merely mimicking you. You project this idea that rationality is beneficial in all situations, regardless of actual circumstances. Had you talked to me a few years ago before I started studying psychology, I would have agreed. Now I know it's not true.
Was I saying rationality was beneficial in all scenarios? My whole argument here is focused mainly on Opal's scenario.
I'm not saying that type of stuff can NEVER help you, but are you saying that it's better to not see things how they ACTUALLY are in every single scenario? I'm saying it definitely wouldn't be a good thing to rely on irrationality like that when it could cause you to act rash and make decisions that you might regret.
Was I saying rationality was beneficial in all scenarios? My whole argument here is focused mainly on Opal's scenario.
I'm not saying that type of stuff can NEVER help you, but are you saying that it's better to not see things how they ACTUALLY are in every single scenario? I'm saying it definitely wouldn't be a good thing to rely on irrationality like that when it could cause you to act rash and make decisions that you might regret.
Obviously not entirely, but generally, yes, you want a vision of reality that is slightly skewed. Optimists especially benefit from this vs cynics. Take a task that's difficult to accomplish. Optimists think they can do it, when most of them will realistically fail. Cynics see the true difficulty of the task and assess it accurately. The difficulty of the task is the same for both groups. Yet, despite that, a greater percentage of optimists succeeded than cynics, despite them being more accurate in their assessment.
So yeah. Clap your hands if you believe, and it is so (or atleast there is a greater chance of it being so). Obviously, you do not want to veer too much into unreality to the point where you make things up wholesale, but yes, if you feel you have a close to objective view of reality, you're doing it wrong. Lie to yourself. Learn to doublethink. Tell yourself things you know aren't true, but want them to be true and do it often enough that you believe them while knowing they're not. It's what I do. You'll thank me later.
But as for Opal's scenerio then. I've still yet to hear a compelling reason for why rationality will help her here. Bolin will feel better. That's it, as far as I can see.
Well I now see that's a bit different. However someone would react in this scenario is reliant on how their personality is like in general. From how we've seen Opal in book 4 before that point, you could make a good guess on how she'd react to that scenario. Not every character would be so irrational in her situation though. Like I said, the way she acted here showed to me a lot about her character.
Well I now see that's a bit different. However someone would react in this scenario is reliant on how their personality is like in general. From how we've seen Opal in book 4 before that point, you could make a good guess on how she'd react to that scenario. Not every character would be so irrational in her situation though. Like I said, the way she acted here showed to me a lot about her character.
I'm not even sure what your getting at here. All that is revealed is that she doesn't handle the idea of her mother being tortured well. Even if other characters would react 'better', I don't see how she's reacting wrong or what it reveals about her character that is supposed to be controversial. Nor, for the thousandth time, have you really made a case why she should act otherwise except that you find her not adhering to basic niceties in times of crisis 'annoying', which is no reason at all as far as I'm concerned.
Obviously not entirely, but generally, yes, you want a vision of reality that is slightly skewed. Optimists especially benefit from this vs cynics. Take a task that's difficult to accomplish. Optimists think they can do it, when most of them will realistically fail. Cynics see the true difficulty of the task and assess it accurately. The difficulty of the task is the same for both groups. Yet, despite that, a greater percentage of optimists succeeded than cynics, despite them being more accurate in their assessment.
So yeah. Clap your hands if you believe, and it is so (or atleast there is a greater chance of it being so). Obviously, you do not want to veer too much into unreality to the point where you make things up wholesale, but yes, if you feel you have a close to objective view of reality, you're doing it wrong. Lie to yourself. Learn to doublethink. Tell yourself things you know aren't true, but want them to be true and do it often enough that you believe them while knowing they're not. It's what I do. You'll thank me later.
But as for Opal's scenerio then. I've still yet to hear a compelling reason for why rationality will help her here. Bolin will feel better. That's it, as far as I can see.
You're so focused on general scenarios or whatever, but i'm sitting here just talking about Opal's. Lets just focus on her. Stop trying to compare other scenarios that don't directly compare to her situation.
But as for Opal's scenerio then. I've still yet to hear a compelling reason for why rationality will help her here. Bolin will feel better. That's it, as far as I can see
I already told you, I said that it wouldn't really affect her overall objective much, but that's not my point.
She seeing things so simplistically here, when it doesn't benefit her at all. Not like in the scenarios you were talking about. I have stated this multiple times already. It's not at all necessary that she acts the way that she does, and no not everyone would act that way in this scenario. It think it would help her if she thought things through instead of moping the whole time.
I'm not even sure what your getting at here. All that is revealed is that she doesn't handle the idea of her mother being tortured well. Even if other characters would react 'better', I don't see how she's reacting wrong or what it reveals about her character that is supposed to be controversial. Nor, for the thousandth time, have you really made a case why she should act otherwise except that you find her not adhering to basic niceties in times of crisis 'annoying', which is no reason at all as far as I'm concerned.
No, it's not her being upset about her mom being caught that shows a lot about her character to me. It's her needless (key word) irrationality in this scenario. It's not impossible, or ridiculous to think things out in her situation. I can't see Bolin, Asami, Mako, or even new Korra acting in the way Opal did.
Seeing things how they are in this scenario would not be detrimental to her. So although it may not exactly help her overall goal to save her family, it'd be better if her mind was cleared of her needless irrationality.
I already told you, I said that it wouldn't really affect her overall objective much, but that's not my point.
She seeing things so simplistically here, when it doesn't benefit her at all. Not like in the scenarios you were talking about. I have stated this multiple times already. It's not at all necessary that she acts the way that she does, and no not everyone would act that way in this scenario. It think it would help her if she thought things through instead of moping the whole time.
You keep saying that but how?! HOW would it help her? What would change about what she is doing now vs what she would do if she were thinking 'rationally' . This is why I said you seem to blindly think rationality will be beneficial regardless of the situation. You've been arguing for it's inclusion for the last 2 hours, but I've yet to hear specifically what it would help her get that she doesn't have now.
And I already went go over various scenerio's because I am trying to illustrate how universal this thing is. What do you expect me to to do, find a study that tests how people act while their loved one is being held hostage? There is no such study because even if the general board of ethics didn't forbid something like that, that kind of rare situation evaporates too quickly to actually get scientists there to make measurements or design a test on the traumatized people hoping their loved one will make it out of the deadly situation okay. All I can do is show how, in high pressure situations, focusing on objectives helps rather than hinders. This applies to everything from war scenerio's, to taking a test, to flirting with a girl. It's so universal, you need to provide a reason why Opal's situation would be the exception, when it's the rule for everything else. Seeing things simplistically DOES help her, according to all scientific research on topic. Holistic thinking (what you are arguing for) is more difficult and takes more time than analytic or catergorical thinking (what opal is doing now), and it is beneficial because it helps her focus.
No, it's not her being upset about her mom being caught that shows a lot about her character to me. It's her needless (key word) irrationality in this scenario. It's not impossible, or ridiculous to think things out in her situation. I can't see Bolin, Asami, Mako, or even new Korra acting in the way Opal did.
Seeing things how they are in this scenario would not be detrimental to her. So although it may not exactly help her overall goal to save her family, it'd be better if her mind was cleared of her needless irrationality.
I keep wondering how you think an irrational person can rationally calculate what irrationality is needless and needed. It's like asking a drunk person to accurately calculate their drunkenness.
And I also wonder what it is that it showed about her character to you. That she acts irrationally in a crisis. Again, so what? Like I said, even if some people handle these things better than others, does that make the people who don't faulty somehow? That comes off as such a dick thing to say, especially to real trauma victims. So go on. Opal can't handle her mom being tortured. This tell you what exactly?
You keep saying that but how?! HOW would it help her? What would change about what she is doing now vs what she would do if she were thinking 'rationally' . This is why I said you seem to blindly think rationality will be beneficial regardless of the situation. You've been arguing for it's inclusion for the last 2 hours, but I've yet to hear what it would help her get that she doesn't have now.
And I already went go over various scenerio's because I am trying to illustrate how universal this thing is. What do you expect me to to do, find a study that tests how people act while their loved one is being held hostage? There is no such study because even if the general board of ethics didn't forbid something like that, that kind of rare situation evaporates too quickly to actually get scientists there to make measurements or design a test. All I can do is show how, in high pressure situations, focusing on objectives helps rather than hinders. This applies to everything from war scenerio's, to taking a test, to flirting with a girl. It's so universal, you need to provide a reason why Opal's situation would be the exception, when it's the rule for everything else. Seeing things simplistically DOES help her, according to all scientific research on topic. Holistic thinking (what you are arguing for) is more difficult and takes more time than analytic or catergorical thinking (what opal is doing now), and it is beneficial because it helps her focus.
Look, I was never saying her seeing through her own irrationality is going to cause miracles. It's just a healthier mindset to have in this case. The reason i'm so against you stating these examples is because
1.) They don't compare to Opal's situation
and
2.) There are ALSO many examples out there of people making decisions that they regretted because of their irrational mindset. It's just completely pointless to bring up examples that don't directly compare.
Look, I was never saying her seeing through her own irrationality is going to cause miracles. It's just a healthier mindset to have in this case. The reason i'm so against you stating these examples is because
1.) They don't compare to Opal's situation
and
2.) There are ALSO many examples out there of people making decisions that they regretted because of their irrational mindset. It's just completely pointless to bring up examples that don't directly compare.
Well, I have science saying you're wrong, it's decidedly not a rational mindset you want to have in that scenerio, and provided various studies I've read on it from memory. I'm not going to go as far as find the actual research articles, because this is getting absurd, and you can find them yourself. I'm just going to say, for a fact, you are wrong, in the situation that Opal is in, it is not a healthier mindset. Thinking holistically about it will hinder her. This situation is what anger and rashness and analytic thinking were literally designed for.
1. They really kinda do, in a general sense. As I said, there is no 1 to 1 study of what opal is going through and there never will be. But it's like saying that "Yes, gravity works in every area we've seen, but we've never tested gravity in THAT particular part of the planet. I don't think we should jump to conclusions and assume it works there just because its worked literally everywhere else."
and
2. Yeah, it's not a sure thing. Nothing is. I fail to see what she has done thus far that she is going to regret however.
And you still haven't pointed out what Opal will gain here, specifically. If you're going to keep claiming it's a healthier mindset, do you atleast want to point out one specific thing how so?
And I also wonder what it is that it showed about her character to you. That she acts irrationally in a crisis. Again, so what? Like I said, even if some people handle these things better than others, does that make the people who don't faulty somehow? That comes off as such a dick thing to say, especially to real trauma victims. So go on. Opal can't handle her mom being tortured. This tell you what exactly?
Here you go again being ridiculous. In Opal's scenario, I definitely do see her irrationality as a negative thing. It's definitely not a positive thing, that's for sure. I'm not saying she shouldn't be upset or worried about her mom, but the way she handled other things could have been done better. And that's just how things are, some people handle things better than others.
Here you go again being ridiculous. In Opal's scenario, I definitely do see her irrationality as a negative thing. It's definitely not a positive thing, that's for sure. I'm not saying she shouldn't be upset or worried about her mom, but the way she handled other things could have been done better. And that's just how things are, some people handle things better than others.
I'm literally asking the question because I don't know hwat your getting at. Please, speak to me as if I'm a 5 year old. And be specific, don't just talk about vague generalities like "it's a healthier mindset." I want to hear the specific thing that will improve her immediate "My mom might be being tortured" scenerio. Like, the actual concrete thing that would be better for her. So tell me...
What, specifically, is the negative affect of her acting irrationally?
What, specifically, is the positive affect she could get if she were acting rationally?
What, specifically, is the insight you've gotten into her character by the show revealing she freaks the fuck out when her mom might be getting tortured to death that couldn't have been assumed.
What, specifically, is the relevance of other characters handling the potential tortures of their mothers 'better'?
Edit: How, exactly, is an irrational person supposed to rationally calculate how irrational they should be? I especially want to hear this one, because it sounds very paradoxical to me.
I can't accept it. Zaheer assassinated a head of state, and his actions led directly to the creation of a global menace. How the FUCK do you not get executed?
I can't accept it. Zaheer assassinated a head of state, and his actions led directly to the creation of a global menace. How the FUCK do you not get executed?
Icy, it's been like half an hour since the last reply, and I actually have to go to bed. If you want to continue this conversation, PM me and we can, but I think it'll have died by the time I wake up.
I'll just end with sharing this anecdote. My mom is a truck driver, partners with my dad. Naturally, this means she is on the road a lot, and in truck stops late at night where it's dangerous. One time, she walked to the gas station alone and was harassed by some dirtbags in a car, asking her to get in. She ran to the truck, where my dad was napping, before she started crying.
Ever since then, at seemingly random times, I'd have this fits of worry that she is okay. It's especailly bad when I call her and she doesn't pick up, sometimes for hours at a time because they have to sleep at odd hours. Nothing has happened and I hope nothing ever will, but I shudder at the possibilities. My mom could have been raped. She still could be. It could be happening right now, for all I know. I can't be sure until the next time I call her. I will know if anything does happen, my grief would leave me inconsolable for a long period of time. I may snap at friends, fail my exams, and generally not function. Because I've felt grief and nerve wracking worry about the safety of a loved one and it's not something you can turn off or 'just be rational' about. It is the force that grabs you and tries to bend and twist you into something else, and that is painful and it is difficult to make good judgements in that time. The big question is could I maintain my rationality in my pain? I suppose so, if I went out of my way to. But it would not help me. It wouldn't allieviate my pain. It wouldn't bring my mom back. It wouldn't leave me bring me back to who I was. Nothing would, not for a very long time. So I see very little reason to force rationality where it would be useless.
For that reason, a basic piece of empathy is all that's necessary to understand Opal's position and why she acts the way she does. She is worried about her mother being fucking tortured to death for christs sake. In the face of that, what would matter to me? Not much. Certainly not a borderline ex pandering to me after two years of neglect. So if she shuts down Bolin's apologies or pushes others to be as against kuvira as she is, I don't hold it to her. Or rather, even if I did, It'd be like holding it to her would be like holding a pebble against someone who is being pushed upon by a mountain. She doesn't fucking care about such little things. Because of course she doesn't. Honestly, who would? There are far bigger problems at hand than politeness or playing devil's advocate to someone whose doing evil things that need to be stopped anyway. So she doesn't care. And if anything happened to my mom, neither would I. And when it comes down to it, and you can deny this if you wish, I doubt you would either, Icy.
korra, asami, mako etc. been boring as hell this season. since they weren't continuing with anything after this anyways they should have just made this a bolin/varrik season. those guys bring the entertainment together.
If the final episodes aren't going like how I want, I'm just going to skip the last episode and assume Korra and Asami drop everything and elope to this tree
Finally watched it I waited to watch because i knew it woulnt entertain me. I'm sick of Legend of Bolin and ready for Legend of Kuvira. They aint show her in like the past 2-3 episodes.
Well they did show her for about a second in the latest episode heh. But yeah real lack of Kuvira recently.
Then again the show has way too many characters at the moment and not enough time for them. Should have used that Kai time to develop Kuvira a tad more as Kai has pretty much vanished into thin air since the start of Book 4.
Well they did show her for about a second in the latest episode heh. But yeah real lack of Kuvira recently.
Then again the show has way too many characters at the moment and not enough time for them. Should have used that Kai time to develop Kuvira a tad more as Kai has pretty much vanished into thin air since the start of Book 4.
Finally watched it I waited to watch because i knew it woulnt entertain me. I'm sick of Legend of Bolin and ready for Legend of Kuvira. They aint show her in like the past 2-3 episodes.
For that reason, a basic piece of empathy is all that's necessary to understand Opal's position and why she acts the way she does. She is worried about her mother being fucking tortured to death for christs sake. In the face of that, what would matter to me? Not much. Certainly not a borderline ex pandering to me after two years of neglect. So if she shuts down Bolin's apologies or pushes others to be as against kuvira as she is, I don't hold it to her. Or rather, even if I did, It'd be like holding it to her would be like holding a pebble against someone who is being pushed upon by a mountain. She doesn't fucking care about such little things. Because of course she doesn't. Honestly, who would? There are far bigger problems at hand than politeness or playing devil's advocate to someone whose doing evil things that need to be stopped anyway. So she doesn't care. And if anything happened to my mom, neither would I. And when it comes down to it, and you can deny this if you wish, I doubt you would either, Icy.
Oh my sorry for making you wait. I actually went to bed myself .
You think i'm being confusing now, I'll probably be more confusing if I keep trying to keep up with so many points at the same time, so i'm just going to focus here in this particular post. You're assuming things about me like they hold anymore weight that what I could assume about myself. I'm treating things as a case by case basis. You claim, "if anything happened to my mom, I wouldn't think rationally" well it depends on the circumstances. In this type of circumstance, I'm pretty sure I'd be able to see the wrong in her actions. In some other cases, maybe not. You say who would? In this particular scenario, I think Korra, Asami, Mako and Bolin would at least be able to see that. Cops came to my house a little over a year ago saying they detained my brother and he's probably going to jail for a while for shooting a gun in a public place (not causing any property damage or hurting anyone btw). You really think I was like "wow F*** cops!" No, I easily saw the wrong in his actions and wasn't irrationally mad at the cops for detaining him. I was of course extremely sad that he'd be in jail, but that didn't stop me from thinking "Wow how could you be stupid enough to get yourself into this" when I heard the news.
They need to tone down Bolin's over-exaggerated behavior. As goofy as Sokka could be, he knew when things were supposed to be serious. I feel like Bolin and Mako were at some point the same person, then someone split them up and put all of the serious nature into Mako and all of the goofy nature into Bolin. That someone is probably the writers who I think planned to have Mako and Bolin together most of the time so they would balance each other out and they wouldn't have this problem, but they've been split up this whole time, and Mako has the Earth King to balance out his serious nature, but Bolin no longer has a foil, so he seems out of place.
.