Serial: Season 01 Discussion - This American Life meets True Detective
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backflip10019
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Foxy Fox 39
Banned
Yeah. Last week was really weird for me. This week is even more over the top. I think the show has said everything it wanted or needed to say and at this point its a bit pointless.
Granted what they are covering is REALLY interesting. But at the same time it's not relevant.
Yeah, same here. A couple of episodes ago, I would have still given the producers some leeway because it's their first shot at the format, but there's a difference between believing someone to be innocent until proven otherwise and being inconsiderate to, well, everyone by choosing only to believe what fits their own narrative. At this point, it seems the podcast could become a topic of many journalism classes, and not in the way they were hoping for.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
After finishing the episode I understand where they're coming from. It was a mandatory episode due to a lot of the other episodes.
I don't really see how, if you've found the other information about the trial relevant, the information about Gutierrez from last week wouldn't also be relevant.
I haven't listened to this week yet but I wouldn't doubt if it's a little bit of a lead in to the wrap up/padding, as it's all coming to a close.
I haven't listened to this week yet but I wouldn't doubt if it's a little bit of a lead in to the wrap up/padding, as it's all coming to a close.
I think one of the interesting points made in the episode comes directly from Adnan and his letter on the impact the podcast has had on him personally.
I think it's more a lesson on long-form journalism and story telling based on actual events. This American Life and a few other radio shows/podcasts have found a good groove in being able to tell compelling stories, but in much smaller sizes and with what are definitive ends for each. Serial struggles with what might end with an open ended finish along with a much larger story past the crime and its details.
For what it's worth, I think SK did a good job, but lessons should be learned from how to package character stories as they tie in with the actual event being discussed. Having a clear stopping point before starting as well might help in making the show more cohesive.
Personally, the show started falling apart after we went from discussing the case to talking about some of the individuals. There were some good details and some revelations, but it all felt a bit rocky. Not all bad, but not as smooth sailing.
I think it's more a lesson on long-form journalism and story telling based on actual events. This American Life and a few other radio shows/podcasts have found a good groove in being able to tell compelling stories, but in much smaller sizes and with what are definitive ends for each. Serial struggles with what might end with an open ended finish along with a much larger story past the crime and its details.
For what it's worth, I think SK did a good job, but lessons should be learned from how to package character stories as they tie in with the actual event being discussed. Having a clear stopping point before starting as well might help in making the show more cohesive.
Personally, the show started falling apart after we went from discussing the case to talking about some of the individuals. There were some good details and some revelations, but it all felt a bit rocky. Not all bad, but not as smooth sailing.
petethepanda
Member
Wish they had wrapped and aired the season and then produced follow-up episode or two instead of having the show "catch up" to the present and and the airing of the podcast itself entering the story. This has become significantly less interesting to me in recent weeks.
Should be interesting to see what the reaction to the final episode is. Wonder if it'll be a Twin Peaks situation where it's super-popular at first and then promptly drops off when people realize that the show wasn't necessarily primarily focused on solving the murder.
Should be interesting to see what the reaction to the final episode is. Wonder if it'll be a Twin Peaks situation where it's super-popular at first and then promptly drops off when people realize that the show wasn't necessarily primarily focused on solving the murder.
It reminded me of what happens when I am grading a student's design project and they have failed to get it working properly. They want to describe all the things they tried that didn't work so you will grade them based on their effort rather than their results.
I think it's some kind of mea culpa for the fact that the show ground to a halt in terms of providing meaningful new insight into the case several episodes ago.
richardhawk
Member
Not sure how I feel about this weeks episode. Really seemed like filler we didn't need. I'm pretty interested in seeing how it ends though. Another podcast I listen to said the best possible ending for Serial would be Adnan just openly admitting he did it.
I'm willing to bet there is a zero percent chance of that happening.
Agreed. I think next week will very anticlimactic and basically be SK's thoughts on everything now that her research is complete. I expect a, "You know, at times I'm sure that Adnan didn't do it......but then there are details I look at that make it possible, but getting to know him won't let me accept his guilt" kind of monologue.
Jugendstil
Member
I mean, it's entertaining and I LOVE true crime stuff and I'm sure a lot of other true crime stories or documentaries I've followed wouldn't hold up under the same amount of scrutiny, but I think they tread into a really morally gray area because of the scrutiny they've unwittingly brought to the case.
How so? (Not that I disagree completely)
Between the more interesting investigative phase coming to a close and the show taking the week off for Thanksgiving a little while ago, its lost a crazy amount of momentum and steam for me personally. Still hooked, but the intrigue of the earlier episodes feel lost in favour of filler and straying from the point.
Despite some elements of the podcast itself coming into the narrative and the subsequent bits of information from individuals coming forward being interesting, it makes me kind of wish Koenig and co. had produced the show all at once to have maybe tightened things up a bit.
Hah, I still haven't quite gotten there but I'll likely go back and revisit it once the show wraps next week.
In all honesty, save for maybe this week's I don't necessarily have a huge problem with these more 'supplementary' type episodes fleshing things out, but they would have been better served interspersed between the more substantiative eps that featured investigation. I still think it was a mistake to have built 'The Deal with Jay' up as big as Koenig did, it really felt like it was going to be the lynchpin of the entire season.
PassiveObserver
Member
The episodes are always interesting, which is enough for me as a long-time listeners of podcasts. Can't fault Sarah or Serial for anything so far. I never feel like it's wasting my time as a listener or that it's fluff. Maybe listening to This American Life for a long time has conditioned me to just enjoy the tiny bits or insights or little character moments, but this series is chockful of poignant human interaction.
mightynine
Member
There's no reason to tell the rumor of she couldn't verify it. Other wise you have a Rolling Stone rape story. That's irresponsible. She was just explaining that she was trying to follow up on leads.
Curious to see how this wraps up.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
I'm wondering if some of the quotes in the outro to the earlier episodes are related to this so-called crazy rumour. For example, the one where a woman is saying "Basically threatened me. You know what happened to Hae, this is what's going to happen to you. That's how I felt that day." (http://files.serialpodcast.org/sites/default/files/podcast/serial-s01-e00.mp3 2:45).
Is it from the rumour? Is it
Adnan's ex-wife?
There's no reason to mention the existence of a rumor she couldn't verify. It was bullshit to bring it up at all.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
No reason? Her journey is part of the show. Whether you think it adds much of interest in (I don't in this case) is your opinion.
Jugendstil
Member
I don't care about the specifics of the rumor, I just don't see any point of starting to describe it if it turned out to be unsubstantiated or wrong. I know it would make for a less interesting episode, but giving air time to a lot of the stuff in this episode seemed borderline irresponsible.
If she didn't mention it then whoever told her could end up talking to a journalist or going on Reddit or something and say they told her Adnan drowned puppies or whatever but she didn't put it in the show. Now if they do she can say 'yeah, I looked into it, and it didn't check out'.
She researched this story for a year. I guarantee there are a zillion threads she never followed up on and there are a zillion things she's heard that she hasn't mentioned at all. The show isn't exhaustive, everything that gets in is included intentionally and carries the weight of an editorial decision. She made a choice to acknowledge this and she's made a million choices to not acknowledge other things.
This one is particularly lame to even reference since the stakes are enormous and the support for its value is less than paper thin.
She doesn't need to acknowledge that she's heard it in the text of the show in order to refute it *if* someone brings it up later.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
Given that she's been hinting at these rumours to come for several episodes and publically saying she had discovered something that, if true, would blow things wide open, she may have felt it necessary to at least acknowledge "the big one."
It also could be a nod at some of the audience, particularly those on reddit, who already knew about Adnan stealing from the mosque among other rumours (http://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2k529r/adnan_is_a_psychopath_close_friends/ -- Rabia and Adnan's brother have now deleted their accounts, but you can see them acknowledging and refuting rumours as well as lobbing attacks at the OP).
I still hope that particular quote in the outro of epsiode 1 ("Basically threatened me. You know what happened to Hae, this is what's going to happen to you. That's how I felt that day.") gets addressed at some point. I'm putting money on it being Adnan's
ex-wife, who he married and divorced from prison
Throw a little shade at both Mitt Romney and John Kerry.
Here is the post about stealing money:
http://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2k529r/adnan_is_a_psychopath_close_friends/
http://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2k529r/adnan_is_a_psychopath_close_friends/
Completely agree. Hope she does that next season.
I thought it was a good penultimate episode, it needed to be said that it's more than a gossipy water cooler story and Adnan's letter at the end kinda laid that out. It would have been better if they could got more people involved to comment about how the podcast has drudged up emotions from 15 years ago but if people don't want to be involved, there's not much they can do.
I really hope the finale is SK talking about her experience making the season rather than an attempt to sum everything up in regards to the case.
I really hope the finale is SK talking about her experience making the season rather than an attempt to sum everything up in regards to the case.
Wowfunhappy
Member
I don't understand all the hate for this episode.
SK has said before that one of the reasons she finds this case so interesting is because Adnan seems "like such a good person". Don't you think it makes sense to follow up on that in more detail?
And in the process, we learn that Adnan stole donation money from his Mosque! That wasn't just a rumor, it actually happened. Does it prove anything? No, but neither does anything else in this podcast.
I also thought Adnan's letter on how he felt about the overall podcast being airedand how he had been trying to stay so businesslike up until thento be really interesting.
I liked this episode substantially more than last week's.
SK has said before that one of the reasons she finds this case so interesting is because Adnan seems "like such a good person". Don't you think it makes sense to follow up on that in more detail?
And in the process, we learn that Adnan stole donation money from his Mosque! That wasn't just a rumor, it actually happened. Does it prove anything? No, but neither does anything else in this podcast.
I also thought Adnan's letter on how he felt about the overall podcast being airedand how he had been trying to stay so businesslike up until thento be really interesting.
I liked this episode substantially more than last week's.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
oh boy, there are gonna be some very disgruntled folks in this thread if that is the case
What can she reasonable say about it that hasn't been said already? Of course there will be something about it, but it shouldn't be the focus.
Criticism is different from hate.
I liked this, too. It hit at an intersection of real emotional experience and meta discussion about the project of the show, both of which subjects I find fascinating and worthwhile.
She doesn't even establish what the rumor was. Just a bunch of ominous stuff about how (not a direct quote
"someone told me that someone told them that someone told them something at a party that would blow the lid off this thing". But she tracked down the alleged originator of the rumor who denied having ever said such a thing (sort of... it sounded more like she tried to lead him in to repeating the allegation; it wasn't actually clear if she brought it up directly). The whole segment was a real mess.Foxy Fox 39
Banned
Ugh. I guess this is why I don't particularly like the way things are going. Stealing money from donation boxes are irrelevant. I went to a christian school and me being the only black kid in my class I was seriously shocked to find out that the majority of the boys in my class were serial thieves. They stole from each other. They used to drive around streets at night and check for open cars and just take things. I mean it was insane. They would also shoplift quite often as well. I don't hang out with any of those guys but Im sure they don't continue in that sort of behavior. Kids are dumb. Teens do stupid things.
If Im honest it just sounds so petty. Prostitutes? Really? Cmon. Even if it were true someone who goes to a prostitute isnt a murderer. It just seems like someone looking for EVERY bad thing a person has ever done to validate their views towards them.
Black-Wind
Member
Yeah ... she should make sure she finishes before making these. IDK what's going on in this latest one .... just a ton of splashing around.
dead souls
Member
My exact thought when I was listening to this while exercising today. It was a complete waste of 40 minutes.
She doesn't even establish what the rumor was. Just a bunch of ominous stuff about how (not a direct quote
Okay good I thought I missed something. I would've liked to hear what the rumor was :/
PassiveObserver
Member
How is it a waste of time? It's a wonderfully produced show, you've got ruminations on the nature of psychopathy as it relates to murderers, and you have Adnan's heartfelt letter. Just appreciate the podcast for what it is, not what you want it to be, some Nightline episode with a neat bow tied at the end.
Okay I just ran through the entire series and last episode felt like it went nowhere but was interesting all the same. I mean I understand this is more of establishing Adan as a flawed person who may not completely be who he is portrayed in the show. A part of me wants to think yeah this guy didn't do it, but everything he says in the letter while seemingly personal still feels calculated, beyond just the explanation that he scrutinizes everything he already says.
I'm not entirely convinced Adan didn't have something to do with this, but a lot of the loose strings are infuriating.
I'm not entirely convinced Adan didn't have something to do with this, but a lot of the loose strings are infuriating.
First half of the episode wasn't interesting but the second half made up for it. I wonder if she'll release the 18 page letter Adnan sent her. You really feel bad for him when he explains what he goes through every time he talks to her and how careful, and considered everything he says has to be.
Why does it seems like everyone in that subreddit is convinced of Adnan's innocence?
why does it seem everyone here is convinced of his guilt?
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