On the flip side: I refuse to play any game that isn't 240fps. Don't even try to get that unplayable 120fps casual filth by me. It's all about gameplay you see. You pure gamers out there know what I'm talking about.
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Naughty Dog won't push Uncharted 4 to 60fps if it compromises player experience
- Thread starter Slowdive
- Start date
On the flip side: I refuse to play any game that isn't 240fps. Don't even try to get that unplayable 120fps casual filth by me. It's all about gameplay you see. You pure gamers out there know what I'm talking about.
Dictator93
Member
Not if you had a display which could sync properly with that refresh rate (for example, 120hz displays can).
MilitanT07
Unconfirmed Member
After all the bragging and moaning they say this!
BabyFaceKillah
Member
Yeah no unacceptable.
To be clear, i dont care at all whether or not the final game is 60 or 30, as the visuals and gameplay presented so far have impressed me. iI looks like a next gen game and plays like a proper evolution of the UC formula from what we've seen and heard. But i'd just like devs to be more tonally consistent and not say things they know they probably are gonna have to take back.
All those tweets about 60fps and what ND are doing for that seem like bad marketing for TLOU now, when a game like that surely didn't need such nonsense to sell.
Dragonborn
Member
30 FPS is perfectly playable. 15 is not. That's absurd logic
The 60 FPS crowd is becoming increasi gly insufferable. You guys are acting like it's a slide show at 30.
Cave Johnson
Member
Did you just flash read the thread? The OP has been posting updates reaffirming that the whole ordeal is in real-time.
Are you sure? They're still debating whether it was in real-time or not, especially on the account of frame-rate which hasn't been fully verified until today.
You're being obtuse aren't you? Trying to put words where it doesn't exist. It's them conveying the trailer end up "leading" consumers to believing that final product. Of COURSE they should be accountable, or did you forget about WD; a different scenario but the same context. Are you just going to give ND a free pass because it's simply a "frame-rate" issue?
Key difference that NOW it's been confirmed that the assets on both cutscene and gameplay are the same: Real-time.
Regardless of where people stand of the use of graphics hardware usage trade-offs, I wish we could clearly define "graphics" because frame rate can not be separated from "graphics". It's too broad a term and the way people use "better graphics" has an inherent dismissal of the effect that a higher frame rate has on the visual experience, or "graphics". When people say they prefer "better graphics" over higher frame rate (or vice versa), it sounds like complete babble to me. What aspect you think makes the "graphics" better is completely subjective. It's a nonsense term without specifics.
Uno Venova
Banned
Gamers are odd creatures, they think what a developer is 'aiming for' is a contract binding promise, and then they go apeshit when they can't reach it.
How is it false?
They can say whatever they want to their artists in the studio, tell them they're not seeing their families until it hits 60fps, but don't tell the customer as they'll be disappointed. Hence the disappointment.
The devs clearly said it was real time, not sure what the debate would be.
And no I didn't re-read that entire bloody thread, lol
It's false because you said there was a promise and there was not a promise...
HaterIsHating
Member
Expected, to be honest. I don't think many AAA (console-)games will make the jump to 60fps this generation. IQ just sells better than fps.
Permanently A
Junior Member
Not gonna lie, pretty disappointing, especially after experiencing TLoU 60 vs 30. Would happily sacrifice graphics for 60 fps, too bad it won't happen.
googleplex
Member
CalamityPixel
Member
Yup, didn't expect the PS4 to be able to pull of 60fps with them graphics.
We aren't there yet.
We aren't there yet.
ShutterMunster
Junior Member
Good thing most people buying Uncharted won't give a damn lol.
Frame rate continues to be the most overblown topic of this generation. All the moaning about this is nothing more than dispatches from the bubble.
Frame rate continues to be the most overblown topic of this generation. All the moaning about this is nothing more than dispatches from the bubble.
Only seems poor because ND stated 30fps felt broken after TLOU remaster in 60fps and that Uncharted 4 would be targeting 60fps. Even the reveal trailer was 60fps, and... ND said that the game looked like that, too. Just shut the hell up and make the game and then tell us the resolution/frame-rate when the game is close to going gold.
They all should just shut up about it until they know for sure. Same with Dying Light devs.
They all should just shut up about it until they know for sure. Same with Dying Light devs.
RandyBobandy
Banned
It was never going to be 60fps anyway
Moon_frogger
Member
All this talk of eye candy, which never even comes up in the quote. He said they want to deliver the best gameplay. Take note, elitist snobs, this a a member of the most respected developer in the business telling you that they will settle for 30 fps if it allows them to deliver the best gameplay. Piss and Moan and cry 'lazy dev' all you want but this isn't some 3rd rate developer here, it's your beloved 'naughty gods'
A reveal trailer that runs at super smooth 60fps while also saying that it runs in real time is kind of teasing to me.
Cave Johnson
Member
You didn't have to but if you are aware how GAF makes OP hype threads you would now the bottom most part would be the initial post with the updates taking up the top space. It doesn't take a genius to know that the first few pages aren't exactly up to speed aren't they?
undermyrules
Banned
this type of sentense is roughly translated as:" Im sorry fans of Uncharted we really tried hard but we cant make Uncharted 4 to run at 60fps unless we downgrade the hell of the game...so we decided to keep it 30 for the best experience(fucking underpowerd box)"
Winterfang
Banned
Not from you Naughty Dog... not from you =(
Just been reading the edge article, seems pretty biased with quotes like ''the best looking game in the new generation''. Its one of the best looking, but the overall visual package does not put it over some other titles.
60 fps would of been interesting, though I think going for 30 and keeping in other things is the right call.
60 fps would of been interesting, though I think going for 30 and keeping in other things is the right call.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I'm pretty resigned to the fact that not a lot of big open world games will be over 30fps. Merely a question of if they get enough development time to lock it down, like AC4 or DAI.Ohhh that sounded different when you posted in AC:Unity threads
I perfectly understand uncharted running at 30FPS.
I *don't* understand why Naughty Dog said they were targeting 60FPS. They got an enormous amount of awe and respect because people believed them.
Now they have to eat crow and take a hit to their credibility. And for what?
Bad move ND, bad move.
I *don't* understand why Naughty Dog said they were targeting 60FPS. They got an enormous amount of awe and respect because people believed them.
Now they have to eat crow and take a hit to their credibility. And for what?
Bad move ND, bad move.
Uno Venova
Banned
I don't mind knowing how things are going framerate-wise during development, because I have the base level maturity of knowing things change during the process.
Expressions, how do they work?
gundamkyoukai
Member
Framerate ,Res and other gfx efects now get change after a game comes out .
So what diffrence does it matter if they tell us before the game goes gold.
People need to learn the difference between designing a new game around 60fps(possible on PS4), pushing an old game that doesn't stress the hardware so much up to 60fps(possible on ps4), and trying to make a new game that is already pushing the hardware at 30fps 60fps(not possible on ps4 or any fixed hardware).
1080p 60fps is plenty possible on these machines, even WIi U as shown by Smash Bros and 60fps as shown by tons of Nintendo titles. You just are going to have to scale certain design aspirations down to hit that target in any case.
My view however is that this new jump in hardware makes it so that games can still look reasonably well even with 1080p 60fps restrictions in place, provided you design the game sufficiently around the limitations of the unit with that 1080p 60fps goal in mind.
But again, like i said, i don't really care about 30 vs 60 as long as its stable, as only certain genre's need it(fighting, twitch shooters driving sims ect)
I remember posting about how they must have been really confident because why even bother bragging or even mentioning 60 FPS if it had even a small chance of being unlikely.
Saint Gregory
Member
LOL, interesting perspective. I've played and enjoyed games that ran at 15fps and games that ran at 30fps but I foolishly expected that as time went on framerates in games would keep up with advances in console graphics capabilities.
When you explain to me what makes 30fps so much more playable than 15fps then I'll copy and repaste what makes 60fps better than 30fps. I'm not going to start boycotting good games because they're not hitting an arbitrary fps cap but I'm not going to stop expecting better priorities from devs either.
CadetMahoney
Member
When there's two or more enemies on screen that will be right up your alley.
Solid Samus
Banned
I too would like to begin misrepresenting the argument of those I disagree with in general. Can you teach me how, sir? The speed at which you deployed GAF's token framerate debate shitpost left me in awe. These framerate threads are always a wonderful primer for that sort of jackassery.
TeddyShardik
Banned
He's not talking about gameplay but the "experience". If it was all about the gameplay 30 fps is just never better than 60. They probably really just have to sacrifice too much in terms of graphics to get a steady 60.
And that is the right decision in my opinion. I'd rather have a rock solid 30 than an unstable framerate.
I only see one mention of 60fps in the OP, and it clearly says it was only a target.
Evidently they work to spread misleading ideas?
I'm glad they finally addressed it now instead of just putting it off as long as they could.
A studio like Naughty Dog should know better about releasing 60fps footage if they aren't positive that's what they're going for in the final game. I hate being BS'd by game companies and seeing something like that from my favorite studio is a severely disheartening. It also created an unnecessary round of negative PR for the game. Everyone would have just assumed Uncharted 4 was going to aim for 30 if that video hadn't come out. Had the E3 trailer been 30, no added questions would be asked. Whether it just be a matter of overambition of cockiness, they shouldn't have shown footage at 60 before they knew what the final target would be. A statement of a 60fps target is less of a promise than actual, tangible, real time footage.
That said, this statement at least sounds like they're considering dropping the target for gameplay reasons versus purely visuals. I've said for a long time that the 60/30 debate isn't purely a graphics versus gameplay argument. Things like physics, destruction, AI, and level design could all make 60 be out of the question. Many of those things wouldn't drop it down to 30 either, just make 60 problematic, so we could probably expect noticeable visual enhancements (high quality object motion blur please) as well.
Naughty Dog's games last gen also had more input lag than most 30fps titles. It wasn't too noticeable due to how they handled animation so if the final game does end up 30fps, there are ways for them to improve controller response from the previous games in the series. Seeing something like 60fps input polling and simulation with rendering at 30 would feel much snappier than the previous games.
Running at 37 right now does bode well for final performance whatever it ends up being but until I hear otherwise, I'm just going to operate under a 30fps assumption.
A studio like Naughty Dog should know better about releasing 60fps footage if they aren't positive that's what they're going for in the final game. I hate being BS'd by game companies and seeing something like that from my favorite studio is a severely disheartening. It also created an unnecessary round of negative PR for the game. Everyone would have just assumed Uncharted 4 was going to aim for 30 if that video hadn't come out. Had the E3 trailer been 30, no added questions would be asked. Whether it just be a matter of overambition of cockiness, they shouldn't have shown footage at 60 before they knew what the final target would be. A statement of a 60fps target is less of a promise than actual, tangible, real time footage.
That said, this statement at least sounds like they're considering dropping the target for gameplay reasons versus purely visuals. I've said for a long time that the 60/30 debate isn't purely a graphics versus gameplay argument. Things like physics, destruction, AI, and level design could all make 60 be out of the question. Many of those things wouldn't drop it down to 30 either, just make 60 problematic, so we could probably expect noticeable visual enhancements (high quality object motion blur please) as well.
Naughty Dog's games last gen also had more input lag than most 30fps titles. It wasn't too noticeable due to how they handled animation so if the final game does end up 30fps, there are ways for them to improve controller response from the previous games in the series. Seeing something like 60fps input polling and simulation with rendering at 30 would feel much snappier than the previous games.
Running at 37 right now does bode well for final performance whatever it ends up being but until I hear otherwise, I'm just going to operate under a 30fps assumption.
This wasn't transparent:
That was ND lying. It's why there were a lot of "unimpressed" responses after the PSX demo reveal.
Everything that's in-focus looks incredible. The foliage and other environmental detail is of substantially higher quality than in the gameplay trailer. The lighting looks much better in the reveal trailer also, although the differing lighting conditions make things hard to compare. It's not just about detail, either. In the gameplay trailer, environments have a stylized art style that was completely absent from the reveal.
DF wrote an article that discussed this, if you're interested.
dragonfart28
Banned
So they weren't competely honest about the visual fidelity and now the frame rate?
This will leave a bitter taste in the mouths of some people who have been following this game from the beginning.
This will leave a bitter taste in the mouths of some people who have been following this game from the beginning.
How on earth is that lying?
MixedBeverage
Member
Disappointing but not surprising. ND really can't lose by setting early expectations like this -- if they achieve 60 FPS, they're gods. If they can't, well, at least we knew it might not happen, and the user experience & graphical vision isn't affected.
Solid Samus
Banned
and all it takes is a visit to a Watch_Dogs or Infamous Second Son or Diminishing Returns thread on GAF to tell you that unimpressed responses often stem from people who can't even articulate what it is they're looking at or the source of their disappointment beyond vague terms like 'well it's flat'. The types of people who'd conflate lighting and scene differences with downgrades because they liked one look better.
So this means that they tried to shoot for 60, couldn't lock it and returned to a stable 30, but at the expense of pushing the graphics further? If they were planning 30 from the start maybe they could push for even better graphics.
Don't get me wrong, I'm an uncharted fan, but what I saw seemed extremely impressive when considering it was gonna be running at 60. Now that it seems that's not the case it doesn't seem that impressive anymore, IMO. For 60 it definitely did, 30 not so much. There's still a lot of time to improve but I don't know if they can overhaul everything to take advantage of the extra frame time 30 allows.
30 is perfectly playable, but I would take 60 over 30 any day of the week.
Don't get me wrong, I'm an uncharted fan, but what I saw seemed extremely impressive when considering it was gonna be running at 60. Now that it seems that's not the case it doesn't seem that impressive anymore, IMO. For 60 it definitely did, 30 not so much. There's still a lot of time to improve but I don't know if they can overhaul everything to take advantage of the extra frame time 30 allows.
30 is perfectly playable, but I would take 60 over 30 any day of the week.