JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Stardust Crusaders |OT| ATTEMPT NO MANGA SPOILERS HERE

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Secret Character said:
Not really. Before it we had things like Hokuto no Ken (Fist of the North Star) and Sakigake! Otokojuku.
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Good point, it is old and Jonathan was just Araki's version of Kenshiro, but the manga's old and stuff like Naruto probably wouldn't even exist without Jojo's popularity. So I just found it weird that the guy didn't want to watch Part 2 because he didn't want to watch a battle shounen anime, which is what Jojo is, it's always been one. Now it just has Personas instead of Hamon.
 
JadedWriter said:
Good point, it is old and Jonathan was just Araki's version of Kenshiro, but the manga's old and stuff like Naruto probably wouldn't even exist without Jojo's popularity. So I just found it weird that the guy didn't want to watch Part 2 because he didn't want to watch a battle shounen anime, which is what Jojo is, it's always been one.
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Who me? No. lol. I'm just commenting on how people think Joseph is GOAT when most of the time his fights were just straight up stupid fights or won without any actual skill or logic and mostly just lamed it out with gimmicks.
 
JadedWriter said:
I was playing Persona 3 and they even made reference to something that happened in Stardust Crusaders. I know what came first, I was just an SMT fan before I started watching Jojo.
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I was just joking.
But I've had more than a few arguments over this with my friends. Hell, even GB said Stands were persona ripoffs in their quick look of JJASB.
 
I wrote on this subject in the AOTY voting thread, but whenever you see really weird, esoteric powers in a battle shounen that can't be overcome through ordinary combat, that's probably the influence of post-Stand Jojo.

Look at the Sensui arc in Yu Yu Hakusho, for example. It's Togashi riffing off a lot of concepts and the general "Gotta figure out how to counter this ability!" mentality of Jojo Stand battles.
 
GreatCharleston said:
Who me? No. lol. I'm just commenting on how people think Joseph is GOAT when most of the time his fights were just straight up stupid fights or won without any actual skill or logic and mostly just lamed it out with gimmicks.
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Joseph pulls his victories right out of his ass, but it's pretty funny. The Ultimate Cars with was straight up life doing his job for him. Even he couldn't act like he knew that volcano was going to erupt.
Siegcram said:
I was just joking.
But I've had more than a few arguments over this with my friends. Hell, even GB said Stands were persona ripoffs in their quick look of JJASB.
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Oh don't worry about it, I actually like seeing what Jojo has influenced. Koromaru is nothing more than a cuter more obedient Iggy.
Siegcram said:
Give me Kevin Nash as old Joseph and I'm so in.
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Keith Urban should be Jotaro.
 
At least we have a J. Geil

DerekMearsJGeil.jpg
 
Jocchan said:
New York, 2016. Johnny J. Jojo (Chris Pratt) is in jail for a crime he didn't commit, when his grandfather Joseph J. Jameson (Sean Connery, fresh out of retirement) and his white friend Avdol (The Rock) introduce him to the world of Punch Ghosts. Now Johnny must defeat the true culprit, Ronnie (James Franco), to save his fiancee (Natalie Portman) and stop a nuclear weapon from annihilating mankind.

PUNCH GHOST - THE ADVENTURE. In theaters 2016.
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I hate everything about this.
 
Part I and Part II weren't that popular initially in Jump, IIRC, because despite the fabulous outfits and bizarre plot points and non-Japanese cast, the action and characters themselves weren't that far removed from something like Fist of the North Star, with big buff men with huge eyebrows fighting with Righteous Fury and evil buff men laughing.

Part III took some time to fully catch on because it was a new concept for outsiders and fans of the old JoJo's alike, but the introduction of Stands (which looked unique and could have basically any power Araki could think up), and unique "what if there was a Stand that did this" semi-self contained "monster of the week" scenarios (though each fight lasted a month or so, weekly manga and all) really caused a big bump in popularity.
 
Stands are a natural evolution for the series. I don't think Hamon could've really carried the series further without being completely redone to "It can do anything" which was getting close already as it seemed to be able to do any random shit in a bad situation (much like Hokuto Shinken from Fist of the North Star it is so clearly modeled off of) so why not just replace it with something else that can convey fights better then magic light?
 
I have an appreciation for the Ripple as my first real exposure to Jojo's through parts 1 and 2, but I like the concept of Stands. Might have liked it if there was a bit more of a connection/explanation of Ripple powers and Stands at the start instead of the former being completely shoved aside.

The change from Hamon to Stands didn't necessarily have to make for a series format change into Monster of the Week, though. I guess it makes sense, when Stands allow for a greater variety of creative freedom that packing in as many different kinds of battles as possible would be the logical conclusion.
 
I don't mind the addition to stands I just wish it hadn't outright replaced hamon. I kind of wished it was a supplement, either one for the other. I just find it kind of dumb to see, using anubis as an example, two combat orientated stands fighting you see them doing battle but the user just kind of hanging out there in the back standing around or something. It's kind of disappointing to me. I know not all stands would work with this especially with all the weird abilities, but still.
 
Ezalc said:
I don't mind the addition to stands I just wish it hadn't outright replaced hamon. I kind of wished it was a supplement, either one for the other. I just find it kind of dumb to see, using anubis as an example, two combat orientated stands fighting you see them doing battle but the user just kind of hanging out there in the back standing around or something. It's kind of disappointing to me. I know not all stands would work with this especially with all the weird abilities, but still.
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The problem is with Hamon that unless he completely backpedaled and changes all the properties of what and who it affects it limits the antagonists that he can use because it only affects vampires and the Pillar Men. (who were all defeated in part 2, so that crosses that off) Stands let anyone be a villain, no matter how weak they normally are, and Anubis was a perfect example of this philosophy.

Plus since there's no actual defined rules to what abilities a Stand can have Araki can get really creative with them.
 
Ezalc said:
I don't mind the addition to stands I just wish it hadn't outright replaced hamon. I kind of wished it was a supplement, either one for the other. I just find it kind of dumb to see, using anubis as an example, two combat orientated stands fighting you see them doing battle but the user just kind of hanging out there in the back standing around or something. It's kind of disappointing to me. I know not all stands would work with this especially with all the weird abilities, but still.
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That's the coolest tho.
Jotaro having his hands in his pockets while Star Platinum is ORAing fools into oblivion.
 
The transition from Hamon to Stands is pretty clunky, it's really just "We are using these now, it's a Ghost Ripple" but I think Hamon being dropped from the series is a good thing.

As for the users just standing back hands in their pockets while Stands clash I think that's actually pretty cool.
 
Stands are so much more interesting than Ripples. I don't know how anyone could think otherwise. Ripples just felt like some filler generic ass power.
 
jgminto said:
There is also around a 40 year difference between 2 and 3, it's not like Stands appeared overnight.
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The implication is that they have always been around though, who is easy to do since they are invisible

Also I just remembered the explanation for monster of the week and probably the only concrete rule of Stands- Stand users will attract other Stand users without fail, be they friend or foe.
 
King Boo said:
i didn't think young jo would struggle to win in that fight. it was a very good and funny episode. can the sword
be repaired? what happens if the sword is destroyed, does the stand die permanently?
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Anubis is in denile about his loss.

*ba-dum-TSSH*
 
King Boo said:
i didn't think young jo would struggle to win in that fight. it was a very good and funny episode. can the sword
be repaired? what happens if the sword is destroyed, does the stand die permanently?
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He probably stops thinking at some point, just like Cars.
 
MetroidPrimeRib said:
Stands are a natural evolution for the series. I don't think Hamon could've really carried the series further without being completely redone to "It can do anything" which was getting close already as it seemed to be able to do any random shit in a bad situation (much like Hokuto Shinken from Fist of the North Star it is so clearly modeled off of) so why not just replace it with something else that can convey fights better then magic light?
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The series was never about Hamon vs Hamon though. It was Hamon vs Vampires and then Hamon vs Stone Men. The most interesting applications of Stands all seem to be with antagonists. So, really, they easily could have just continued the series with Hamon vs Stands.

Squishy3 said:
The problem is with Hamon that unless he completely backpedaled and changes all the properties of what and who it affects it limits the antagonists that he can use because it only affects vampires and the Pillar Men. (who were all defeated in part 2, so that crosses that off) Stands let anyone be a villain, no matter how weak they normally are, and Anubis was a perfect example of this philosophy.
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Hamon was shown to work just fine against normal humans in Part 2. Knocking them out, controlling them, curing them, destroying things inside them, etc. It was specifically good against Vampires, but it wasn't really an ideal tool against the Stone Men at all. Joseph had to go way beyond the previous applications of Hamon in order to make it useful against the Stone Men. The first time he attempted to use the sunlight overdrive, it was completely ineffective, aside from barely keeping him from being absorbed.
 
NeonZ said:
The series was never about Hamon vs Hamon though. It was Hamon vs Vampires and then Hamon vs Stone Men. The most interesting applications of Stands all seem to be with antagonists. So, really, they easily could have just continued the series with Hamon vs Stands.



Hamon was shown to work just fine against normal humans in Part 2. Knocking them out, controlling them, curing them, destroying things inside them, etc. It was specifically good against Vampires, but it wasn't really an ideal tool against the Stone Men at all. Joseph had to go way beyond the previous applications of Hamon in order to make it useful against the Stone Men. The first time he attempted to use the sunlight overdrive, it was completely ineffective, aside from barely keeping him from being absorbed.
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Santana was a special exception because of the ways he could manipulate his body, it worked like normal on Wham, AC/DC and Cars. (pre-perfect form) As far as I can remember, anyway.
 
Squishy3 said:
Santana was a special exception because of the ways he could manipulate his body, it worked like normal on Wham, AC/DC and Cars. (pre-perfect form)
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Huh... Wham was said to be able to manipulate his body much faster than Santana. Ripple only worked against them later because it was combined with weapons or other objects (like the ropes tied around ACDC), Joseph outright says that just his Ripple wouldn't work in his first encounter with the 3 Pillar Men.
 
I still maintain that I don't think Araki did a good job of transitioning from Hamon to Stands but I don't know how one can think the former is seriously better or was better for the series in general. Once you get over the "shock" of the transition, it becomes clear which style is superior (if only one can remain).

GreatCharleston said:
Who me? No. lol. I'm just commenting on how people think Joseph is GOAT when most of the time his fights were just straight up stupid fights or won without any actual skill or logic and mostly just lamed it out with gimmicks.
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People think Joesph is GOAT because its genuinely fun and interesting to watch him make his what through the narrative of Battle Tendency. Joesph would be fun to watch even outside the context of a battle shonen anime. You also say that as if later Jojo fights are completely devoid of gimmicks or are completely logical or what not. Like huh? Many of the things that makes Part 2 Joesph awesome, especially a good portion of his wit, have been missing in Part 3 - its not hard to figure out why a lot of people are disappointed in how his character has changed even as they are aware that he's no longer the leading man.

Squishy3 said:
Santana was a special exception because of the ways he could manipulate his body, it worked like normal on Wham, AC/DC and Cars. (pre-perfect form) As far as I can remember, anyway.
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Did you forget about that entire training/level-up arc between the Santanna Battle and the battles with ACDC, Wahmu and Kars?
 
Do the villains ever stop being disposable? I couldn't name any of the "freak of the week villains" to save my life. I was so excited when Dio came back only to be immediately disappointed that he is so absent from everything.
 
Krogan said:
Do the villains ever stop being disposable? I couldn't name any of the "freak of the week villains" to save my life. I was so excited when Dio came back only to be immediately disappointed that he is so absent from everything.
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That cowboy dude was looking like he was going to be a persistent villain earlier on, but nope.
 
Krogan said:
Do the villains ever stop being disposable? I couldn't name any of the "freak of the week villains" to save my life. I was so excited when Dio came back only to be immediately disappointed that he is so absent from everything.
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really? you forgot about Steely Dan AKA Dan of steel.

I know what you mean though. I liked how the pillar men were so involved and now its beat this dude and move on.

I'm a bigger fan of Hamon then stands, it would have been nice to see Joestars keep using a mix of the two.
 
Stands get very creative, and Hamon was a limit on creativity, on top of being inconsistent on what it could do (not that stands are at all consistent). The first half of part 3 is the weakest part of all of JoJo, I'd say everything else is fantastic. You will be glad Hamon is gone, if not in part 3, then definitely in part 4 and on.
 
Pein said:
really? you forgot about Steely Dan AKA Dan of steel.

I know what you mean though. I liked how the pillar men were so involved and now its beat this dude and move on.
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Putting it that way Stardust Crusaders seems like one really long Mega Man game. Only difference is that Jotaro doesn't inherit the abilities of the stands he cruises through.
Seeing Steely Dan Ora'd through a building is the funniest and best part of the first part.
 
NeonZ said:
The series was never about Hamon vs Hamon though. It was Hamon vs Vampires and then Hamon vs Stone Men. The most interesting applications of Stands all seem to be with antagonists. So, really, they easily could have just continued the series with Hamon vs Stands.
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That's not really fair. Araki had to come up with Stands for the protagonists first when he was just getting started with ideas, which is why the Crusaders have some of the most vanilla Stands in the entire series.

Likewise, the antagonists themselves become more personable and far more memorable. The only really memorable antagonists (barring their Stands) in the first half (barring the Dio-fied Kakyoin and Polnareff) were Hol Horse, Enya, and maybe Steely Dan.

Meanwhile we've just started the Egypt arc and we've already gotten N'Doul and his Daredevil hearing powers, Oingo and Boingo and their hilarious power/trust dynamic, and a talking independent Stand that lives in a sword.
 
Something that confused me - how does Anubis work? How can a Stand live/exist independent of its Master? The original blacksmith that made the sword Anubis resides in (i.e. the person from which Anubis is obviously birthed) is obviously long dead - Anubis should be dead with him too. Are Stands existing independent of their Masters a plot point that gets explored more later on (be it Part 3 or later Parts) or is just another idea that goes unexplained and dropped? (A simple Yes for the former or No for the later in a spoiler box is a sufficient answer).
 
Crocodile said:
Something that confused me - how does Anubis work? How can a Stand live/exist independent of its Master? The original blacksmith that made the sword Anubis resides in (i.e. the person from which Anubis is obviously birthed) is obviously long dead - Anubis should be dead with him too. Are Stands existing independent of their Masters a plot point that gets explored more later on (be it Part 3 or later Parts) or is just another idea that goes unexplained and dropped? (A simple Yes for the former or No for the later in a spoiler box is a sufficient answer).
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Well the obvious answer is that Anubis works using possession. It chooses someone who it thinks is worthy. How he functions when he has no user, I dunno. Think of it as an inanimate object with a Stand, I guess, kind of like how Devil Fruits can be used on swords and guns, although there's no actual basis for that line of thinking. Much like the inanimate Devil Fruit objects, the way how it actually works is off screen and never shown. Part 3 didn't really hammer in all the details on how Stands actually work, I consider it to be mostly still in the concept phase, Anubis is a testament to that as it breaks almost every single rule you could think up for Stands having (Can't be seen by non-Stand users, only one Stand per person, doesn't even have a user.) I'd advise not getting hung up on details like that because they really never stop.

Just another idea. Although there are some similar ones.
 
Crocodile said:
People think Joesph is GOAT because its genuinely fun and interesting to watch him make his what through the narrative of Battle Tendency. Joesph would be fun to watch even outside the context of a battle shonen anime. You also say that as if later Jojo fights are completely devoid of gimmicks or are completely logical or what not. Like huh? Many of the things that makes Part 2 Joesph awesome, especially a good portion of his wit, have been missing in Part 3 - its not hard to figure out why a lot of people are disappointed in how his character has changed even as they are aware that he's no longer the leading man.
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But that's only because Joseph has to carry the whole series alone. He is the single protagonist until he arrives to Italy, then Caesar is his rival and Lisa Lisa is his master. While both Cesar and Lisa Lisa get to shine, it is still mainly Joseph's show. Cesar in particular is super flat as a character. Everyone in part 3 is more interesting than Cesar. Lisa Lisa as team leader and more experienced member, doesn't have the depth Part 3 Joseph or Abdul have.

A lot of people think Joseph is goat, but a lot of people also rank Battle Tendency p low in the overall series because it is way more simplistic, battle and character wise than the rest. The reality is that Joseph was loaded with all the interesting character traits in part 2 and his pals were shafted.
 
ElFly said:
Cesar in particular is super flat as a character. Everyone in part 3 is more interesting than Cesar. Lisa Lisa as team leader and more experienced member, doesn't have the depth Part 3 Joseph or Abdul have.
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Oh man, I think I completely disagree with you here. Caesar is a more interesting character than all of Jotaro's companions, minus maybe Kakyoin (who's been out of the picture for a long while). The relationship between Caesar and Joseph beats pretty much anything from the main crew in part 3, except for when Polnareff was going renegade and got Avdol killed. Polnareff and Kakyoin have some funny moments, but they're fleeting.

Lisa Lisa was relatively plain, but she was an awesome fit for a mentor role, and knowing who she was in relation to Joseph gave it meaning.
 
I never said I liked hamon better than stands I said I wanted Araki to use a mix of the two and not have the users just standing around doing nothing while their ghosts punch each other. Which btw must look great to non-stand users, seeing these two people standing 5 meters apart just staring at each other with bruises randomly appearing.

I like Caesar and Lisa Lisa. Battle Tendency wasn't as long though so I don't feel like it's fair to judge them to other characters in longer parts.
 
Huh, I wonder if I'm in the minority of liking Caesar. He was an ass from the very moment he was introduced, and that made for a tense relationship between him and Joseph that I quite enjoyed. Prim, proper and condescending vs. rough and unrefined; It was like a Part 1 Dio and Jonathan relationship if Dio didn't turn out to be absolutely evil.
 
Crocodile said:
Something that confused me - how does Anubis work? How can a Stand live/exist independent of its Master? The original blacksmith that made the sword Anubis resides in (i.e. the person from which Anubis is obviously birthed) is obviously long dead - Anubis should be dead with him too. Are Stands existing independent of their Masters a plot point that gets explored more later on (be it Part 3 or later Parts) or is just another idea that goes unexplained and dropped? (A simple Yes for the former or No for the later in a spoiler box is a sufficient answer).
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Araki breaks his own rules on occasion, going by Part 3 at least, Anubis is based on a Japanese myth or folklore of a sword that would posses or put its wielder into a bloodthirsty fury.

Keep in that this isa Japanese Katana or Sword in Egypt and being named after the Ancient Egyptian God of the Underworld. How the sword made its way to Egypt is anyone's guess :P

Oh and if that hadn't been brought up yet, the name of the blacksmith who made the sword was
886978775023.jpg
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For reals, and no this is not a spoiler ;)
 
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