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[Petrie]

I am not. Have you ever looked at a trans woman vagina? You know all vagainas look different right?

You understand of course there is a lot more to is than what it looks like right?

It can not react, taste, lubricate, and all the other wonderful things that occur while eating pussy.

 

[Mumei]

LMAO.

No.

Not even remotely the case.

I pray you're kidding.

I have no expertise in the matter, so I don't know if you're right or wrong - but how do you know?

 

[Nabbis]

I am not. Have you ever looked at a trans woman vagina? You know all vagainas look different right?

A first year med student can tell a difference. Hell, even i can make an assessment just by palpating. I doubt there are many transgendered people with ovaries. Im a long way from a gynecologist.

 

[WaffleTaco]

You understand of course there is a lot more to is than what it looks like right?

It can not react, taste, lubricate, and all the other wonderful things that occur while eating pussy.

What do you mean by react? And all vagainas taste different I belive, and yes some post op vaginas can lubricate.

 

[kmax]

Who you're attracted to DOES play a role into how you perceive others. You won't hurt the people you like or love so much as you would potentially do that to those you don't. Human history shows such. I'm not saying the two are strongly tied to each other but pretending there's no connection (no matter how weak) is disingenuous.

This doesn't make sense. Just because I'm not sexually attracted to some doesn't mean I'm going to love them or care for them any less than I would with someone who I happen to be attracted to. By the same token, I don't have to love someone that I'm attracted to. To conflate the two interchangeably like that is weird to me.

And again, having preferences that incidentally lead you to certain types of people isn't a problem. But if you are only using those preferences to intentionally limit yourself to certain people (in this case, by ethnicity), then that's sort of short-sighted to me. If you would just ask yourself what features in particular about your preferences you like about them, you'd probably be able to see that at least some of them carry to outside of that group, or at the very least, could better explain your preferences (or the patterns of people it leads you to) with better clarity.

Here, I agree. I don't know why anyone would intentionally want to limit themselves like that (I certainly wouldn't), but I also recognize that there are people that do, and who they like is their right. Who am I to judge? If they have certain perceptions about other human beings, then I will question their stance and possibly their character, but having a personal preference like attraction doesn't qualify.

Ultimately though, yes, people's choices are their own outside of sexual identity, which isn't a choice. They have the right to those choices, just hopefully they're being smart and fair in getting to them. In the end it all feeds back on other people so it does help to offer guidance on it, since it will eventually affect you in some capacity (any capacity) in your life.

I think we both can agree here.

 

[Petrie]

I have no expertise in the matter, so I don't know if you're right or wrong - but how do you know?

Because we haven't yet reached a place where we can make the changes necessary to have that be the case. A simple google search and a bit of reading will provide said information.

What do you mean by react? And all vagainas taste different I belive, and yes some post op vaginas can lubricate.

I understand you want to believe a post-op woman is also a female, but that is not yet the case. Maybe one day science will get there, but until then, it is a poor attempt to mimic the physical parts downstairs.

 

[wildfire]

While it's cool people have some strong feelings about this topic I'm dismayed that there isn't as much discussion on the two other aspects of this topic I presented.

As men some of us are advacating trampling the rights of cis women for transwomen even though when push comoes to shove we can't fully acknowledge trans women as women in all ways.

 

[Two Words]

where's the contradiction?, some peope like dicks and some pussy, respecting someone does not change that.

that is like saying where's someone is racist for prefering white girls over black girls

Well, I would say somebody is racist if they refuse to ever date a particular race under any condition.

 

[NumberTwo]

I don't think I would have an issue dating someone who was transgender. But then again, it is my own personal outlook that womanhood/femininity has more to do with just what is between someone's legs or their chromosomes. As a red-blooded straight male attracted to feminine traits, Bailey Jay (for all intents and purposes) is an attractive girl in my eyes. This is all in regard to the construct of 'gender', not strictly biological sex.

That said, I've only dated cis women to this date (to my knowledge).

 

[Trojita]

I wouldn't date a transgender. I only want to date XX females. So both sex and gender are important in who I decide to date. But I wouldn't treat that person differently in society. That's fucked up.

You're telling me that you find a transgendered female that looks like the girl in your avatar, likes video games, and is a great person that your personality clicks with, and you wouldn't date them because they were born with heterogametic (XY) chromosomes? Get out of here.

 

[Izuna]

While it's cool people have some strong feelings about this topic I'm dismayed that there isn't as much discussion on the two other aspects of this topic I presented.

As men some of us are advacating trampling the rights of cis women for transwomen even though when push comoes to shove we can't fully acknowledge trans women as women in all ways.

I'm sorry, what?

 

[Petrie]

You're telling me that you find a transgendered female that looks like the girl in your avatar, likes video games, and is a great person that your personality clicks with, and you wouldn't date them because they were born with heterogametic (XY) chromosomes? Get out of here.

I absolutely would not, because again science can't yet change important aspects.

 

[Kinsei]

While it's cool people have some strong feelings about this topic I'm dismayed that there isn't as much discussion on the two other aspects of this topic I presented.

As men some of us are advacating trampling the rights of cis women for transwomen even though when push comoes to shove we can't fully acknowledge trans women as women in all ways.

What? First not everyone in this topic is a man and second how the hell is anyone advocating for the trampling of cis rights?

 

[Unbounded]

Because we haven't yet reached a place where we can make the changes necessary to have that be the case. A simple google search and a bit of reading will provide said information.

I was really hoping you were talking from experience tbh.

 

[Trojita]

While it's cool people have some strong feelings about this topic I'm dismayed that there isn't as much discussion on the two other aspects of this topic I presented.

As men some of us are advacating trampling the rights of cis women for transwomen even though when push comoes to shove we can't fully acknowledge trans women as women in all ways.

You have a problem with acknowledging transgendered females as women. Not all of us have this problem. Trampling the rights of cis-women? What?

 

[Ishida]

You're telling me that you find a transgendered female that looks like the girl in your avatar, likes video games, and is a great person that your personality clicks with, and you wouldn't date them because they were born with heterogametic (XY) chromosomes? Get out of here.

I wouldn't.

 

[Izuna]

I have no expertise in the matter, so I don't know if you're right or wrong - but how do you know?

I gunna look for testimonials and porn surrounding this topic. I'm cautiously interested.

I don't think anyone here has eaten both cis and trans pussy and is willing to tell us the differences.

 

[Floridian]

You're telling me that you find a transgendered female that looks like the girl in your avatar, likes video games, and is a great person that your personality clicks with, and you wouldn't date them because they were born with heterogametic (XY) chromosomes? Get out of here.

He already mentioned he doesn't want to date transgendered women. I don't know why you're trying to make him seem like a bad person for having that preference.

 

[Pau]

While it's cool people have some strong feelings about this topic I'm dismayed that there isn't as much discussion on the two other aspects of this topic I presented.

As men some of us are advacating trampling the rights of cis women for transwomen even though when push comoes to shove we can't fully acknowledge trans women as women in all ways.

How are my rights as a cis woman being trampled? Cause I definitely don't see it.

 

[Griss]

While it's cool people have some strong feelings about this topic I'm dismayed that there isn't as much discussion on the two other aspects of this topic I presented.

As men some of us are advacating trampling the rights of cis women for transwomen even though when push comoes to shove we can't fully acknowledge trans women as women in all ways.

I'd love to discuss your points but quite frankly I have no idea what you're talking about. Could you elaborate? What trampling of the rights of cis women? What do you mean acknowledge trans women in all ways?

I acknowledge trans women in all ways relating to gender. That's what they want. But not all ways regarding sex, which is what I'm attracted to. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[crimzonflame]

Blind people can still feel peoples physical features and get a sense of what they look like. It's not like a gay blind man is going to accidentally have sex with a bunch of women because he didn't know any better. They're blind, not oblivious.

Can they feel ethnicity?

 

[Trojita]

He already mentioned he doesn't want to date transgendered women. I don't know why you're trying to make him seem like a bad person for having that preference.

I'm not trying to make them out to be a bad person. I'm just saying that I don't believe them.

 

[jasonng]

All this comparison to how a transplanted sex organ feels compared to a real one sounds silly to me when the real problems lies with the stigma of being in a relationship with a transgender. There's no argument that life can be difficult for a transgender because of the fact that it is an uphill battle just for basic human decency. I wouldn't want to date a transgender woman because I don't want to share that burden as a partner. It's selfish to say but I don't think it's wrong to prefer less complications in life.

 

[Griss]

I'm not trying to make them out to be a bad person. I'm just saying that I don't believe them.

Why not? When a majority of people hold a similar opinion it's a little strange to assume it's disingenuous without some evidence or strong reason to believe that's the case.

I mean, obviously it's not the chromosomes themselves that are at issue here. If a person was born female, developed as a female, had working reproductive organs and secondary sex characteristics and was fertile, but then a test came back and she strangely had XY chromosomes, I wouldn't care (too much, I'd be a little concerned obviously). But in the situation you gave you meant more than chromosomes alone, and in that case I absolutely would not fuck that person. (We keep saying date, we mean fuck. I'll 'date' anyone because it's just a date. I'd only fuck people I'm attracted to, and therefore the 'dating' would not progress to a 'relationship'.)

All this comparison to how a transplanted sex organ feels compared to a real one sounds silly to me when the real problems lies with the stigma of being in a relationship with a transgender. There's no argument that life can be difficult for a transgender because of the fact that it is an uphill battle just for basic human decency. I wouldn't want to date a transgender woman because I don't want to share that burden as a partner. It's selfish to say but I don't think it's wrong to prefer less complications in life.

I've been so wrapped up in the biology I hadn't even considered that point. How would your parents feel? How would people treat you out at restaurants etc? To be honest I really believe I could handle this part if I could handle the biology, which I can't.

 

[Sai-kun]

As long as they're funny and attractive (and have good taste in music), I would date, like...anyone.

Idk about this topic.

Non-bi people have too many hang ups

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Can they feel ethnicity?

Probably. Most people from the same ethnicity have similar facial structures or at least common traits. If I thought anyone would be able to pick out an ethnicity without looking at the person I'd assume it would be a blind person who could do it.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if I saw a blind person feel an Asian persons face and they were able to tell that it was an Asian person.

 

[crowphoenix]

I wouldn't care if the body part performed 100% perfectly.

 

[injurai]

I'm not trying to make them out to be a bad person. I'm just saying that I don't believe them.

Are you heterosexual cis male? Because it seems you're entirely discrediting the male sexuality in finding mate or entering into romantic relationships. If you are, then I don't know why you don't just speak for yourself.

 

[Takuan]

All this comparison to how a transplanted sex organ feels compared to a real one sounds silly

Especially when the amount of individuals who are speaking from direct experience is probably 0. You have group A, who would never have intercourse with an MtF tg in the first place, and group B, who have only read studies/anecdotes about how a make-shift vagina reacts and feels.

Even if someone here has actually had the sex with an MtF tg, people would want to "see the receipts", which is literally impossible since the experience is highly subjective anyway!

 

[Higgins113]

You're telling me that you find a transgendered female that looks like the girl in your avatar, likes video games, and is a great person that your personality clicks with, and you wouldn't date them because they were born with heterogametic (XY) chromosomes? Get out of here.

I wouldn't

 

[MikeyB]

Sure, I could find a transgender person physically attractive, but I am not interested in dating people solely on the basis of physical attraction.

There are two reasons why I would categorically knock transgendered people out of my potential dating pool:
1. I want to raise a family.
2. I don't want to spend my life with someone whose mental capacity is largely consumed by matters of identity, identity politics, or gender politics. Or someone who views life through that lens. (clearly, not all transgendered people are this way, but there's a much higher likelihood that they are)

 

[Izuna]

On the topic of post-op pussy, it's apparently so close to being the same that people hardly notice.

Also there are so many heartbroken stories of people going PG-13 on dates, telling the man (always the man) and then they had to break up.

A couple of posts specifically on both susans.org and another mentioned that it took a long time for some dates to come back into a relationship and they have better results telling them before anything happens.

So I dunno, I mean, I would feel somehow violated too even if I were okay with it. It would have to be beforehand so I guess the very few posts make sense to me.

But you know, thinking about it, if I really liked a girl I would prefer pre-op over post-op even if I vastly prefer pussy, because I don't really like the idea of people changing the way they are anyway. I would rather accept the whole thing and if that girl feels self-conscious about being a girl with a penis, I would probably just reassure her that it's not the pussy that makes her a girl. It's not that people lose their gender if somehow they lost their reproductive organ.

Man my mind has gone places I wouldn't have.

Still wouldn't date a girl knowing she can't get pregnant though. But that's probably because I'd with the idea of seeing if it could be serious.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Be true to yourself. Don't hide yourself in a relationship or you won't feel good about it. Is there anything that would prevent you from transitioning now? (Not that you have to go through with anything, whatever you are comfortable with.)

Well, it's quite expensive, isn't it, and I don't really have the money to go through all the way. Second, I don't have like anyone I think would support me through the ordeal, so it'd be emotionally draining, and I imagine I'd probably have to basically "start over" since I don't feel like it's easy to just jump back into my normal routine after the fact, I'd probably want to move far away and just start things over. I know my family would disapprove, and unfortunately I feel like society as a whole would look down upon them for my decision, so I wouldn't want to put them through that. I guess I also have this huge fear that as a woman I wouldn't be pretty enough, and that everyone would be able to tell I used to be a man and find me repulsive.

All these boil down to what other people think basically, and I know that it doesn't matter ultimately what other people think, but those are my reasonings however irrational they are.

 

[Platy]

I understand you want to believe a post-op woman is also a female, but that is not yet the case. Maybe one day science will get there, but until then, it is a poor attempt to mimic the physical parts downstairs.

Mimic which physical part downstairs ?
In the same way that there are penis of all shapes and sizes and colors and reactions, there are vaginas of all shapes and sizes and colors and reactions

 

[Fink]

Well, it's quite expensive, isn't it, and I don't really have the money to go through all the way. Second, I don't have like anyone I think would support me through the ordeal, so it'd be emotionally draining, and I imagine I'd probably have to basically "start over" since I don't feel like it's easy to just jump back into my normal routine after the fact, I'd probably want to move far away and just start things over. I know my family would disapprove, and unfortunately I feel like society as a whole would look down upon them for my decision, so I wouldn't want to put them through that. I guess I also have this huge fear that as a woman I wouldn't be pretty enough, and that everyone would be able to tell I used to be a man and find me repulsive.

All these boil down to what other people think basically, and I know that it doesn't matter ultimately what other people think, but those are my reasonings however irrational they are.

It can be expensive. Transgender people go to the extent they are comfortable with, even if that is just dressing differently. There is no "right" way to be transgender.

I hope you can be happy regardless of what you choose.

 

[NumberTwo]

But you know, thinking about it, if I really liked a girl I would prefer pre-op over post-op even if I vastly prefer pussy, because I don't really like the idea of people changing the way they are anyway. I would rather accept the whole thing and if that girl feels self-conscious about being a girl with a penis, I would probably just reassure her that it's not the pussy that makes her a girl. It's not that people lose their gender if somehow they lost their reproductive organ.

Man my mind has gone places I wouldn't have.

Still wouldn't date a girl knowing she can't get pregnant though. But that's probably because I'd with the idea of seeing if it could be serious.

I think this is pretty much where I stand, however I think I would want for her happiness above anything else (if that meant being pre-op or post-op). I agree, when it comes to wanting to start a family, things get murky for some people (including myself).

 

[injurai]

Mimic which physical part downstairs ?
In the same way that there are penis of all shapes and sizes and colors and reactions, there are vaginas of all shapes and sizes and colors and reactions

Reductio ad absurdum.

I can't believe people are still trying to bring the debate down to that level.

 

[Petrie]

I was really hoping you were talking from experience tbh.

1st hand experience? No, nor would I use that to judge because our procedures are always evolving and improving.

I have enough friends who are in that "scene" though to know where things are and what's possible an what isn't thus far.

Mimic which physical part downstairs ?
In the same way that there are penis of all shapes and sizes and colors and reactions, there are vaginas of all shapes and sizes and colors and reactions

I understand that. I have experienced more of them than most, I am aware of the differences, and also of the fact that our science isn't yet able to replicate the real thing.

 

[Zakalwe]

Bathrooms should be unisex anyways.

Plenty of people would disagree with this, I think.

 

[studyguy]

Plenty of people would disagree with this, I think.

My girlfriend was assaulted by some dude in a unisex bathroom, I believe she'd be one of them.

 

[Platy]

Well, it's quite expensive, isn't it, and I don't really have the money to go through all the way. Second, I don't have like anyone I think would support me through the ordeal, so it'd be emotionally draining, and I imagine I'd probably have to basically "start over" since I don't feel like it's easy to just jump back into my normal routine after the fact, I'd probably want to move far away and just start things over. I know my family would disapprove, and unfortunately I feel like society as a whole would look down upon them for my decision, so I wouldn't want to put them through that. I guess I also have this huge fear that as a woman I wouldn't be pretty enough, and that everyone would be able to tell I used to be a man and find me repulsive.

All these boil down to what other people think basically, and I know that it doesn't matter ultimately what other people think, but those are my reasonings however irrational they are.

You can start hormones and present as male for a good amount of the part.... maybe even all of it if you are "lucky" to be flat =P

It is not a linear process ...

 

[Delta Assault]

Ya know, this thread got me wondering...

Do transgender people disclose their status to people on the first date? Are there guidelines for conduct in the transgender community? That's the ethical thing to do, right?

 

[Zakalwe]

My girlfriend was assaulted by some dude in a unisex bathroom, I believe she'd be one of them.

Exactly, the unfortunate state of things is that some people are too animal for this kind of progression.

Maybe when we hit some kind of future enlightened state, or whatever.

 

[Petrie]

My girlfriend was assaulted by some dude in a unisex bathroom, I believe she'd be one of them.

Could just as easily happen with a female or even a male in a woman's bathroom.

Separating them does literally nothing to prevent this.

 

[User 73706]

Regarding the "are preferences racist" discussion that came about ITT:

Saying you prefer a race over another is not racist. Its personal taste and purely subjective. You're not valuing a race's ability to love as being superior to another. That would be racist.

That's pretty much the very definition of racism. Aesthetic preferences are one thing, but specifically tying preferences to "inherent" racial qualities is definitely racist on some level. Example:

1. "I don't like girls with frizzy hair." Not racist.

2. "I don't like black girls." Definitely racist.

3. "I don't like black girls because of their frizzy hair." May not be worth grabbing the torches and pitchforks for, but it is still racist by a baseline standard.

For one, not only are you making assumptions about an entire race and likely tying projection and personal experience to it unnecessarily, but you're also using small numbers of people as spokespeople or representatives for an entire race, aka stereotyping. Even if you may not consider it offensive or derogatory or whatever in the way that actively subjugating someone to prejudice because of race is, it's absolutely a racist thing to do, even if subtle. "I normally don't like spanish guys, but you're pretty cute," "you're so polite for a Scotsman," "this is the longest I've ever been with a black guy," etc. are all no-nos. You're absolutely allowed to have preferences, for example wanting someone with red hair or freckles or glasses or even being tan, but the second you actually tie those qualities to a race, positively or negatively, it's absolutely racially-charged and by extension racism.

---

Sure, I could find a transgender person physically attractive, but I am not interested in dating people solely on the basis of physical attraction.

There are two reasons why I would categorically knock transgendered people out of my potential dating pool:
1. I want to raise a family.
2. I don't want to spend my life with someone whose mental capacity is largely consumed by matters of identity, identity politics, or gender politics. Or someone who views life through that lens. (clearly, not all transgendered people are this way, but there's a much higher likelihood that they are)

So basically
1. You live in a universe where adoption doesn't exist.
2. You don't feel like budging regarding your tolerance or understanding of gender identities, and we all know those pesky transgender individuals are just the worst about being PC Police!

 

[Zakalwe]

Could just as easily happen with a female or even a male in a woman's bathroom.

Separating them does literally nothing to prevent this.

Of course it does, it decreases the risk.

 

[Sai-kun]

Ya know, this thread got me wondering...

Do transgender people disclose their status to people on the first date? Are there guidelines for conduct in the transgender community? That's the ethical thing to do, right?

Cisgender people aren't ever required to tell people their gender, so I'd say it's the same for trans folks. I imagine it would be whenever they're comfortable telling someone.

So basically
1. You live in a universe where adoption doesn't exist.
2. You don't feel like budging regarding your tolerance or understanding of gender identities, and we all know those pesky transgender individuals are just the worst about being PC Police!

Lol #2 struck me as odd too. Damn those social justice warriors!!

 

[Izuna]

Ya know, this thread got me wondering...

Do transgender people disclose their status to people on the first date? Are there guidelines for conduct in the transgender community? That's the ethical thing to do, right?

I think they wish they didn't have to?

Cisgender people aren't ever required to tell people their gender, so I'd say it's the same for trans folks. I imagine it would be whenever they're comfortable telling someone.

There are people who would seriously have a problem with this. Currently I imagine the kinds of men who stop dating a trans girl after finding out would also be too ashamed to have anyone else know. In a way, I smell a lawsuit in this nature eventually happening.

 

[HUELEN10]

Ya know, this thread got me wondering...

Do transgender people disclose their status to people on the first date? Are there guidelines for conduct in the transgender community? That's the ethical thing to do, right?

It's a personal choice that varies from person to person; as I said prior, I personally think it is very important to disclose your gender, sex, and orientation to the one you are with, and that goes for everyone, even me.

After all, why wouldn't you want to be honest with someone about that stuff? Don't you want the person you are with to love you for you?

 

[Petrie]

Of course it does, it decreases the risk.

In what way? If that was a women's room a male could just as easily have been in there and assaulted your girlfriend, and a female could also just as easily assault her.

It literally does nothing to decrease any risk.