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[NHale]

I wouldn't say bullying because a game is not a person but I understand his point of view considering there are people behind the scenes that worked a lot on the game just to see it be the subject of an unbelievable vitriol that I still can't explain. And if I can't explain then surely those that worked on the game can't either. After launch criticism is one thing and you have to deal with it but the huge majority of this is coming from those that didn't even played the game.

But hey when you don't have nothing to play, you got to invent an imaginary friend who has the game or spend every minute of your free time watching a YouTube playthrough just to catalogue the entire experience. Who wouldn't really?

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Im going to tell you one thing. I already ate a 100$ steak and a 20$ steak, and quite honestly, for the difference of feeling its a better steak when you pay 100$, well, i rather save money and buy a 20$ one.

So again, what price is The Order? Ohhh 70$. Right, will wait for the 20$ price. I WANT to play The Order, it smell good, look tasty...but...

Nintendo understand that some AAA game they are releasing ( Captain Toad, Kirby and some others ), dont have the same 59$ price tag on it because they wont be as atractive. A lower price is attractive.. Sony should have taken the same example and release it at 49$ rather than 69$.

It's fairly obvious that Captain Toad and Kirby don't have the same budget as The Order.

 

[viveks86]

At least Ricky_R will get one more penny.

 

[Papercuts]

In that interview, the claims of one of their programmers that their own speedruns hadn't neared the 5 hour and 30 minute playthrough would seem to be highly factitious. Not even near?

Their programmers were basking in the atmosphere.

 

[EntropyX]

Im going to tell you one thing. I already ate a 100$ steak and a 20$ steak, and quite honestly, for the difference of feeling its a better steak when you pay 100$, well, i rather save money and buy a 20$ one.

So again, what price is The Order? Ohhh 70$. Right, will wait for the 20$ price. I WANT to play The Order, it smell good, look tasty...but...

Nintendo understand that some AAA game they are releasing ( Captain Toad, Kirby and some others ), dont have the same 59$ price tag on it because they wont be as atractive. A lower price is attractive.. Sony should have taken the same example and release it at 49$ rather than 69$.

Think about how costly it is to produce a technical piece of work such as the order.

 

[Dandy Lyin]

Well, I would rather buy a $60 videogame than 200g of $100 steak...

 

[Steve Youngblood]

There's an argument to be made that this game gets more hate than it deserves, but I earnestly believe that the vitriol is just one of two sides of the same coin when it comes to the console wars. I think for every person that wants to take a potshot at it for being a console exclusive, there's someone else out there willing to defend it because it's a console exclusive. Such is the nature of the silly system wars. I honestly kind of wish I could travel momentarily to the parallel Earth-2 where The Order 1886 is a multi-plat and see if the front page of that universe's NeoGAF has 20 threads on the game.

Also, I think it's incredibly silly to lop in video game critique with bullying. There's been sincere campaigns in recent years to talk about the damage that bullying can cause to people in terms of depression and potential suicide. Throwing in "mean things said about a video game" with that just seems absurd.

 

[uomoartificiale]

All I can see here on GAF is people saying how they find refreshing that the game is only 6-7 hours long, how great the graphics are, how deep is the narrative. I think this game is being received with extreme favourable prejudice for what it seems to offer (I'm not commenting on the quality of the offering).

 

[Isotope]

I could go for steak for dinner tonight. Hmm...

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

In that interview, the claims of one of their programmers that their own speedruns hadn't neared the 5 hour and 30 minute playthrough would seem to be highly factitious. Not even near?

This sounds like BS. At this rate it's either they are pumping up their length( which everyone figured anyway) or the youtube dude lied about his cuts.

 

[GODREALMS]

I'm looking forward to playing this game on Friday.

I think there are many people who hate on the game because it is PS4 exclusive and they don't have enough spare cash to spend on it.

I'm aware of the length of the game, the QTE's, and the cut scenes. From what I've seen of it, though, it looks like an experience I will really enjoy.

The free The Order 1886 PSN theme is great, too!

 

[SuperSonic1305]

Did I miss something? It seems like despite the supposed short play time, people who got the game early are enjoying it.

And their impressions are being drowned out by the psychotic tirade of shit being thrown in the game's direction.

 

[Sevyne]

I don't care if a game is short if it has high replay value. The question is "Does the Order have that replay value?". In my experiences with these cinematic games, the answer is usually "no" and that's the big problem. Can I say that's the case for The Order? Nope, but most signs would point to that being the case.

 

[Dead]

More like $48 single player experience. Thanks Best Buy gamers club!

 

[Jarmel]

What's the replay value of a steak?

Well you get co-op action with your dog if it's bad enough.

 

[WordsintheWater]

I gotta say Gamespot sucks major balls lately, taking other people's interviews and taking a bunch of quotes out of context and posting it as an article with a sensationalist headline, guess that's the way shit works.

 

[Mushroomer25]

oh boy, I disagree. There are many linear games having the exact same curve as this game.
What about the other players saying they have a completion time of 10-15 hours?

If they can show me evidence to a 15 hour run, I'd change my tune. But as is, we've got one convincing video playthrough - against a handful of unverifiable reports for a game that has become highly politicized.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Tim Dog is famous, he made Gaf!

He's gonna be so excited.

 

[Stereogatari]

If you think the perception of your game is wrong then that's your own fault. Whether that be the marketing or the game itself.

Resorting to the internet bully strawman is very weak.

 

[Korten]

How would you feel if you spent 5 years of your life working day and night working on something you're deeply passionate about and have it get hated, shit on, and disregarded by hundreds of thousands of people before you've even released it.

They don't. They will just give the same response as all internet critics do: "harden up." As if just saying it makes it happen. Plus honestly saying that is just an excuse to let the haters continue.

 

[Intheflorsh]

I can sympathize with them wanting to defend their creation, but-

Facts about the game's length, which originated when someone completed a speedrun of the game in five hours, have been misrepresented, Jan argued.

- these kinds of disingenuous statements deserve to be criticized.

 

[Tangeroo]

Did The Order personally slight you? If you've played it, fine, but you're awful vocal about criticizing it for some reason.

It's your right to do so, it just seems personal for you.

I'm sorry that you feel that way. As we're on a video game message board, I thought it would be good to have discussion about a highly anticipated game, even if those opinions differ from others we have those discussions with.

My specific reply in this thread was to point out the problem with the developer's analogy. He wrongly assumes that we would rather have all-you-can-eat awful steak because all we care about is being filled.

I'm saying that's not true. Personally, I don't see the value in paying full price for a lesser experience when I can use the same amount of money and get more for it of the same (or really, better) quality. I bought Dying Light recently and I've been thoroughly enjoying the single player experience. I wouldn't expect something like The Order to be as long as it's strictly linear but I would expect it to be longer than it is, especially considering how much of the length is padded by cutscenes.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Really sick of these stupid steak analogies, they just don't work >_>

 

[DrGonzo615]

no. if people are attacking their creation, they as developers are allowed to defend it. And they're absolutely in the right of commenting on internet hate in general.

I don't even care about the game. I think the graphics are gorgeous but the gameplay looks really uninteresting to me. But hey, if you're excited for it I won't stop you, and I won't shit on the game, its devs and its fans for what it is.

That's not to say that any criticism is unwarranted but chill the fuck down.

Im not saying that the devs are in the wrong at all, it just seems to help perpetuate the negativity around the game. I mean, doesnt it seem kinda bad for the dev to be full on defense mode before their game even releases? It just isnt good for business. Plus its not like they are going to convert any of the haters anyway so its just a waste of energy.

Im still convinced to buy the game but its more of a suggestion that they should probably just stop

 

[Lord Error]

Regardless of his game's quality, he's right. Never more evident than in the life threats sent to various people who said bullies disagree with.

 

[Dragonborn]

Gaf is also full of thin skin people that get bent out of shape over trolling that required zero effort.

When every single Order thread keeps getting derailed by the constant hate and trolling...thick skin is only so thick

 

[John Kowalski]

There's an argument to be made that this game gets more hate than it deserves, but I earnestly believe that the vitriol is just one of two sides of the same coin when it comes to the console wars. I think for every person that wants to take a potshot at it for being a console exclusive, there's someone else out there willing to defend it because it's a console exclusive. Such is the nature of the silly system wars. I honestly kind of wish I could travel momentarily to the parallel Earth-2 where The Order 1886 is a multi-plat and see if the front page of that universe's NeoGAF has 20 threads on the game.

Also, I think it's incredibly silly to lop in video game critique with bullying. There's been sincere campaigns in recent years to talk about the damage that bullying can cause to people in terms of depression and potential suicide. Throwing in "mean things said about a video game" with that just seems absurd.

I don't think vitriol counts as "mean things". Moreover i doubt this is a matter of Gaf's own relationship with the game. I have to imagine gaf is just one of many outlets for this sort of vitriol and probably one of the most conservative with its limits, thus a meaningful representation of what they have to bear with as they go through online content about their games would probably be closer to something some degrees above what we see on Gaf.

It's also very silly to defend that same vitriol as criticism, because it's not criticism. It's vitriolic commentary without the articulacy and quality to consider it even so much as approximating to the sort of criticism that's actually beneficial to either end of its audience.

 

[Dictator93]

That has nothing to do with "art". That seems to be saying that critics didn't enjoy Wolfenstein as much as gamers did. I don't see how that might not be applicable to The Order.

I cannot trudge the thread for every single comment currently. But it the "this is the intended experience of RAD, and how they always wanted it" line has popped up so many times there. Along with the sub-text of "all critique doesnÄt matter in light of their "intended experience.""

It exists as a screen to obfuscate actual critique.

The comparison to Wolfenstein and the reviewer situation is completely inane 2-fold:
1. Game content, game style, dev-goals-wise, everything Wolfenstein is and was presented to be has no bearing on The Order. People just enjoy using it to prove some point about it being a "misunderstood" niche game. Just like how the phrasing in the impression thread about it "harkening back to a time gone of singleplayer old school games" is likewise rubbish. This game has all the hallmarks of a new age contentlacking, playeragency-abyss, modern cinematic game. People are attempting to create a narrative about the game which does not exist in its content. I can understand liking the story and the graphics... but defending the gameplay, pacing decisions?

2. Who cares how a game reviews. Seriously. People's obsession with these defense, with the review scores and building continuities where they dont exist stem, IMO, from some festhistic view of review scores and platform presence. Review threads, which I have written about before, should be completely change on GAF.

I'm trying really hard here to see the difference between that (fairly soft) statement regarding its quality and your own statements regarding its gameplay.

Both without playing it.

The only difference I'm seeing is that delta24 says he "has a feeling", while you are being categorical.

Medium and production method along with the circumstances of corporate culture form a product in incredible ways. My speaking about it categorically stems from this fact, and the fact that the devs have categorized the games themselves as much as possible through their advertising.

 

[Natureboy99]

Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain. And most fools do.

-Benjamin Franklin

 

[KingSnake]

Its probablY more like watching a dude eat a steak in front of you.

Spoiler

a bit mean, but funny

 

[Social]

will buy at $20

 

[GuardianE]

This interview actually makes me want to avoid the game altogether.

 

[Freshmaker]

Jan said that when players complete The Order: 1886, they won't think it's a "short" game. In fact, he said its length will be similar to other games in the shooter genre. Facts about the game's length, which originated when someone completed a speedrun of the game in five hours, have been misrepresented, Jan argued.

Jan should learn what a speedrun is.

Well, they closed the guy's channel so we have to rely on their word.

 

[gruenel]

Fixed that for you.

Nah, it really is all of the internet

 

[marjo]

I can't believe no-one has made a moustached steak gif yet. GAF, you're starting to slip.

 

[Gestault]

The steak analogy is weak when the most outstanding part of the game is presentation, and there are reasonable assertions about moderate to lower-quality elements in the game itself.

 

[EntropyX]

If they can show me evidence to a 15 hour run, I'd change my tune. But as is, we've got one convincing video playthrough - against a handful of unverifiable reports for a game that has become highly politicized.

The problem is that your sample number is.....1

 

[jakonovski]

What's the replay value of a steak?

Well taking a good dump is pretty enjoyable.

 

[Brandon F]

Well they did market the absolute shit out of this game over the course of two years(even propping the leads alongside PS staple franchise mascots) without ANYONE really knowing what this game actually is or can expect to be.

You deliberately toss these unknowns in the pool with Nathan Drake, Kratos, Sackboy, Jak, etc... across all marketing promotional materials for that much time, and you are only inflating expectations prematurely amidst a very vocal set of consumers.

Scrutiny was expected, it's taken ages to get any real insight as to what this game was, and in the 11th hour people are a bit miffed its just a rote cinematic shooter that lasts barely a weekend with little replay value...exactly what they had spent 2 years hoping it evolved beyond with the hardware.

So yea, marketing sort of threw RAD under the bus on this one.

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

Well, they closed the guy's channel so we have to rely on their word.

It's on daily motion.

Someone who's actually beaten the game do us a favor and watch the full fucking thing.

 

[Korten]

When every single Order thread keeps getting derailed by the constant hate and trolling...thick skin is only so thick

Honestly that probably is it. It's just gone on for so long that what ever skin was there is now ripped and shredded in the darkest corner.

 

[Loakum]

In all my years of gaming I've never witnessed a campaign to spread negativity about a game operating at the level as we are seeing right now for The Order.

All the anti-Sony outlets are in Fox News mode right now trashing the game 24/7 for the past week.

It has been very ground breaking, the amount of extreme emotion this game has received....but on the bright side, it helped create one of the most hilarious videos I've ever seen on youtube/NeoGaf: http://youtu.be/FV-u5tvQC34

 

[Jarmel]

The problem is that your sample number is.....1

Well there was a 2nd run through that was running around the same length but I don't know if his account got axed too.

 

[mrklaw]

If the game is shit, I wouldn't cry for RaD for getting lots of criticism. But they do seem to be getting a lot of hate before the game has been played by most people, and before reviews are even out.

 

[Ricky_R]

At least Ricky_R will get one more penny.

Nickle, actually.

 

[R3TRO]

Just a few...

https://www.youtube.com/user/nxtgen720/videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/CrapgamerReviews/videos

https://twitter.com/PNF4LYFE/with_replies

https://twitter.com/Mooch1978/with_replies

People actually read Timdogs tweets...Gross.

 

[Seventy70]

Paint yourself as some kind of victim before reviews are out. Nice.

 

[Producer]

How would you feel if you spent 5 years of your life working day and night working on something you're deeply passionate about and have it get hated, shit on, and disregarded by hundreds of thousands of people before you've even released it.

How would you feel if you actually have been bullied in real life and see these devs take these user reactions and criticism as "bullying"? They need to get a grip.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

I have anosmia (no sense of smell) so all steak tastes the same to me.

Check mate, RAD!

You eat with your nose? Damn!

 

[JayhawkerStL]

I do not find it funny. The game industry is having a major problem with developers working over-hours and having unstable grounds, while in the meanwhile they encounter self-entitled little brats trashing their hard work. I do not mean that negative criticism should be banned, on the contrary. The problem is that there are so many comments with a disrespectful tone.

Now all we need is a RAD themed "Leave Britney alone" GIF.