Terra Firma
Banned
Unless your name was Muslim-sounding.
Quebec judge refuses to hear women's case until she removed Hijab
- Thread starter Maninthemirror
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Unless your name was Muslim-sounding.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
You have to wonder how legit religions are if religions can die.
A Link to the Past
Banned
That's the problem with some of the replies in this thread. People think these things are black and white just because they don't understand.
Religious people believe in all religions?
Shit like this makes my blood boil, but at least your tag already flags you as an idiot.
The point is it is there court room. Judges are in a special legal position. Where if you want to ensure that they behave in a certain way, there needs to be explicit precedence. If there is not, then they can carry out as to set new precedence for their court. Even if it is his preference, that is not the point. Which is why I was saying it only does good to engage rationalized stances with another rationalized stance. Because that is what is needed to enforce upon the judge limitations of these particular liberties. Which he is of the liberty of taking. Because he is the one that can interpret the scope of religious freedom as it relates to an non-explicit instance.
Not in his case apparently.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
MuzzledBasher
Member
You aren't trying to using some bullshit about caring about women welfare as an excuse why burqa should not be permissible, are you?
Common sense does.
I'm a Muslim and happen to disagree with burqas, they have little do with the Quran and I quite honestly hate them and think they are oppressive to women, however, I cannot speak for all women that wear them, in fact I know women that wear them completely voluntarly, but, and this is more to the point, a burqa covers the face and is therefore inherently offensive in the context of court proceedings.
A hijab does not obscure the face, it does not hinder communication or identity.
What kind of argument is this lol? "Guys, remember those old religions that died out? They must all suck then amirite?"
A Link to the Past
Banned
No, it's both. Racism makes atheists more likely to go after Islam than Christianity, and a lot of racism against people from the Middle East is due to the perception that they are Islamic. Both racism and Islamophobia fuel each other, it's like perpetual motion!
My point is, is your opposition of the burqa because you talked to a Muslim woman who helped you form your opinions?
citation needed
A hijab has also little to do with the Quran though.
t-storm
Member
It's a hyperbolic example. But if someone felt that the one spiritual truth came down to them in a dream I don't think that makes them less legitimate in their beliefs even if nobody else subscribed to it. It's also not the place of society to tell them they can't do whatever non-harmful things they want, nor is it the place of society to challenge whether they do or do not truly believe what they say they do because that is unreasonable persecution.
If I say I need the baseball cap then you should accept it just because I said it. And in that sense you allow everyone to do as they reasonably wish or you allow no one for any belief driven reason.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Just thinking about it is all. It's off-topic for this thread. Makes you think, though. That a religion that existed well before Islam, Christianity, Judaism and lasted longer is now considered "long dead". It makes you wonder the validity of other religions.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Sure. Would you also like me to cite the colour of grass or sky while I'm at it? To come to the conclusion I've made, all you need to do is come to the conclusion that atheists can be racist, and that fact compounded with the fact that they strongly dislike religion is going to inevitably lead to exactly that. Why do you think Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher's atheist mission is so focused on Islam?
Ahhh so awesome to assume the Judge was a male. I wonder why you thought so. hmmmm? Was it because a female can't be a judge or only a man could do something like this?
Anyway I am a little conflicted on this. If it was an canadian in a Muslim court, would they have to abide by the rules also?
you can argue about wearing head gear being appropriate or not, but I support the idea of being consistent. religion shouldn't have any exceptions at all. as far as I am concerned the only place where religions specifically should have any legal protection is at home and in worship designated locales, and even then no more than the bare minimum.
These days religions like Christianity and Islam has a net harmful effect on the world.. so yeah I think what he is saying is perfectly reasonable.
These days religions like Christianity and Islam has a net harmful effect on the world.. so yeah I think what he is saying is perfectly reasonable.
If the judge can't see that it means a lot to a person and let it slide, they aren't reasonable and shouldn't even be a judge.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Because it is Islamic extremists that are currently causing mass death, etc. If they were around during the crusades they would have lambasted Christianity.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
It still wouldn't fly. I could mindmeld with the judge and show him Jesus came down to me a surfboard and told me to hang loose and wear shorts to court and I still would not be allowed barring a medical condition (same with sunglasses).
Wait so the religion deserves exception so long as people worship it currently? Is it more valid of exception the more people that practice it? I'm just trying to catch up to the goalposts you guys keep moving. Why can't I wear a baseball cap for a team with millions of fans?
No one is stripping anyone of their personal faith when they walk into a courtroom. If you want to personally attach your faith to articles of clothing, that's your business, but you may not be able to wear them to court.
A Link to the Past
Banned
What about "men have more privileges that help them become judges, so people expect that the judge is a man more often than not"?
Civil Rights Movement
Jim Crow Era
Ku Klux Klan
Christianity used as a justification to ban same-sex marriage, same-sex intercourse, same-sex adoption, etc.
Not really. Maybe there were not enough followers? Maybe it's dead because people felt that other religions catered to their needs/questions better? Kinda like how we believed the earth was flat until we had methods and evidence to prove that it was wrong. Not saying that its the same thing, but you see where I'm going here. There are many reasons for dead religions. But yeah off topic.
I really like this post.
Yeah, racism and islamophobia can go hand in hand. I never argued different. I called someone out who argued different.
Also you make it sound like there is some secret racist atheist against Islam war going on which is kinda hilarious.
What's the reason? Let me guess, "because it's just the way it is." or "it's disrespectful!!"
Sounds something a lunatic conservative would say.
The Quran commands modesty. Hijabs have fulfilled this command for centuries.
A Link to the Past
Banned
So when I say that atheists are often just as bad as Christians, what I'm saying sounds like "secret racist atheist against Islam war"? Instead of, like, "atheists can be racist, and the fact that atheists seem to disproportionately target Islam over Christianity is likely born from that"?
Subpar Spatula
Banned
That statement should require citation if you're able to say it with confidence.
To be fair, Maher and Dawkins will talk about other religions like they do Islam. The more current focus seems to be Islam due to it being more in the media (Maher is a talk show host). You can find lots of videos of Dawkins debating people of all religions. He is does talks at universities about them.
Richard Dawkins: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=richard+dawkins+christianity
Bill Maher: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Bill+Maher+christianity
While I have not compared the numbers of what they've talked about more it's weird to say they're "focused on Islam".
The Quran doesn't command a headscarf. There a muslim states where women don't have to wear anything on her heads. It's a cultural thing.
A Link to the Past
Banned
No, it's really not? Best case scenario is that because of ISIS, atheists are more willing to decide that a billion people are defined by extremists.
You figured this thread didn't have enough idiotic arguments? Why not one more?
Subpar Spatula
Banned
You know this how? Conjecture doesn't work on me.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
But courts in BC and the Supreme Court are okay with it.
Why does it matter? It doesn't hinder my ability to tell the truth, testify, present myself with dignity. So what, you're just annoyed people, what, show off?
If the Boston Red Sox are a deity that people believe in, then go ahead and wear your baseball cap.
Are you saying Dawkins and Maher don't condemn these things, because they are from white chistians?
I disagree. She's not there to act depending whatever means to whoever. She tells others to take their hats off, she does the same to this woman. Could have done it differently but she probably sees it as treating everybody equally.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
As someone else said, it's usually up to the judge's discretion. Sometimes you won't even make it into the actual courtroom unless you are "properly" dressed. Some courts don't even allow denim jeans iirc. No hats, sunglasses, baggy pants exposing underwear, short skirts that almost show panties, masks (anything covering your head or face), sandals, shirts with curse words or nudity on them, etc. It's mostly to form a homogeneous and professional environment.
Unless this judge was letting everyone hang out and dress like they were filming Weekend at Bernie's or something and singled out this woman, screaming racism or bigotry is a bit of a far cry, imo.
The conservative quip is funny as I am pretty far from that frankly lol. Why do lawyers wear suits and can be potentially removed or fired if they don't? Why can't I wear short sleeves to my Uni's ball? Why do dresscodes even exist at all?
Im not sure if things have changed but afaik they still allow a non secular version of the oath to be said in court.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Because that's what happening. You see images of the World Trade Center and text over it reading "Christianity is a religion of truth just like Islam is a religion of peace." This not only again dictates that a religion is defined by an extremist group, but also basically says:
"Christians are liars, Muslims are killers." In the end, Christians come out ahead.
I can understand if there was a mask, but there is not reason at all to not allow the other stuff. Stupid conditions.
Are you also a person that "doesn't see color"?
It's one thing to say that Atheist can be racists and another to claim that Atheist disproportionately target Islam over Christianity. Seriously, that's a bold claim. I just wonder how you came to that conclusion.
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