It's still a different universe but it does not have the Adventure universe as a TV show. The only 'Digimon' thing before Takato becomes a tamer is the card game.
Digimon Adventure Tri: Final egg hatched! First PV will be shown on 6th of May
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It's still a different universe but it does not have the Adventure universe as a TV show. The only 'Digimon' thing before Takato becomes a tamer is the card game.
Its a different dimension/universe from adventure&02. Ryo is a multi-dimensional traveler whose mission is to beat Millenniummon. He interacted with the adventure chosen children, and the Tamers one. I guess he preferred the latter.
Question is though, how did his parents exist in tamers dimension?
Ganzlinger
Member
Wow. Didn't know that. This was a huge mistake then.
No, the universe is different. Digimons are supposed to be a franchise in Tamers' world with card games and stuff. Takato even creates Guilmon in a drawing as if he was on deviantart lol. Later they find that the Digimon and the Digital World really exists.
Probably waiting til Monday.
WrenchNinja
Member
I'm not sure why that's an idiotic invention or a huge mistake.
Paper Sparrow
Member
No one ever likes hearing that the characters they invested themselves in didn't really accomplish anything.
Sort of a "it was all a dream" type of deal. It just rubs people the wrong way.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
It doesn't even make any sense. The two series are separate continuities, but they both exist within the same multiverse (established multiple times). There's no logical reason why there would just happen to be a show about the Adventure kids in the Tamers universe. It doesn't actually have any sort of logical basis, and it basically flies in the face of everything else.
It's just another case of the dubbers making shit up and it not actually lining up with anything.
If there is one thing I dislike about Digimon is how it mostly end up being one or two character who pretty much get all the power and everyone else in the group do nothing but get beat up every time they show up. They only exceptions from my viewing is Tamers and Savers. I haven't watch xros wars, so I can't speak for that.
WrenchNinja
Member
Huh? A TV show being part of a multiverse totally makes sense. There's nothing invalidating that world depicted as fiction in one show could be its own universe.
There's a similar scenario with Barry Allen who read comics of the original Flash taking up his name and then meeting him later.
Sounds like you're just getting mad at something totally innocuous.
Paper Sparrow
Member
I like Frontier but god was it awful when it came to that.
It must hurt your self-esteem to be that useless.
It was done for the same reason that Power Rangers had several seasons using the same characters while using footage from new sentai series which were totally unrelated to previous ones.
They didn't think the audience would like moving onto a new series that had no correlation with the previous one. They couldn't just animate the adventure cast and put them into Tamers (since they were just localizing it) so their solution was to make references to Adventure being a TV show in the Tamers universe.
Now it's up to the individual if they liked that or not (some do, some don't. I personally don't but that's just me) but that's the reason anyway.
They didn't think the audience would like moving onto a new series that had no correlation with the previous one. They couldn't just animate the adventure cast and put them into Tamers (since they were just localizing it) so their solution was to make references to Adventure being a TV show in the Tamers universe.
Now it's up to the individual if they liked that or not (some do, some don't. I personally don't but that's just me) but that's the reason anyway.
This was a glaring issue in Frontier, but it didn't matter in the end because the 3 of the 4 characters left out were extremely un-interesting anyway. Adventure wasn't that bad in this regard as each character were useful in their own way.
Like Jou who said he wasn't strong enough to get Gomamon to ultimate, but that was okay because he can benefit the group in finding Yamato, and uniting everyone.
WrenchNinja
Member
How I see it is that as Tamers is supposed to reflect the real world more and the Digimon craze, putting the first two seasons of the show in line with the card game and video games as part of a franchise in fiction makes sense. They want the Tamers cast to reflect the viewer and their experience.
I can't really get mad at that cause those characters don't exist to begin with and have already completed their story with 02. So what does it matter if it was a TV show in Tamers, right?
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
There needs to be a damn good explanation then as to how actual, real events from another universe could be depicted as a TV show. But no such explanation can exist because it was never put in there by the creators to begin with.
It's more like if Barry Allen had originally just come up with the idea of being the Flash on his own, but the French translations had added some bit about him reading comics based on the original Flash.
It's just more irresponsible adding of new details which contradict the established canon, done by people who just couldn't leave well enough alone and just produce an actual translation.
Paper Sparrow
Member
*shrug* I can't say I ever cared too much about it (epilogue never existed, mwahahaha), I'm just telling you that's how people see it (I remember it being one of the reasons kids hated Tamers when it came out). Even if the characters are fictional, you get attached to them and want them succeed. Some don't like being told it was all for not.
It was just unnecessary and off-putting.
WrenchNinja
Member
What explanation do they need other than it's part of the way the Digimon franchise caught on? You do realise the events of Digimon Adventure and 02 arent real to begin with, right?
Yes in the dub it was added. With Barry Allen it was part of the pitch. So what?
Irresponsible seems like a pretty heavy thing to lob at the dubbers. What was irresonpsible about it? What established canon? Tamers is it's own universe. Events of Adventure being fiction or not in-universe does nothing to ruin Tamers and does nothing to the story of Adventure, since as you know, the show is fiction in reality.
Like I could see being upset about it if it affected the storyline negatively siginificantly but it didn't really do anything at all. If Ryo had started yelling about how he was from another universe and the cast start questioning him about it and his relation to the Adventure universe or something, maybe you'd have a point but they hardly acknowledge that.
I am going to go with this. There is no reason to do that really. Reminds of how the dub made Bardock a brilliant scientist in DBZ. Like, why? It doesn't benefit the show in anyway.
WrenchNinja
Member
But they did succeed. Yamato and Gabumon are the first dudes on Mars!
But I get it. It just seems pretty ridiculous to shit on the dub of Tamers just for that.
Paper Sparrow
Member
*shudders* Yep, just a TV show...
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Obviously the events of Adventure and 02 aren't real, but they're real within the Digimon multiverse. The issue is that it doesn't make sense how the show could exist at all. The fictional Digimon franchise was connected to the actual Digital World of the Tamers universe. There would have been no way for an anime actually replicating the events of Adventure to exist unless in the Tamers universe Toei has access to a dimensional gateway that lets them see other worlds (and use this to create children's television series for some reason). The whole thing doesn't make logical sense, especially once you take Ryo into account.
The way that the Digimon card game and the various computer games exist within Tamers is explained quite well within the show. But adding some nonsense show based on Adventure doesn't make any sense, and it ignores the actual rules of the series.
It's irresponsible because creating new details always leads to the possibility of the whole thing coming apart at the seams. It's like how the Adventure dubbers had the kids talking about made up family members in the early episodes of the show, despite the fact that they 100% knew that the kids were going to return to the real world later in the series. Just because nothing wound up happening to contradict the silly additions the Tamers dub made didn't mean that it couldn't have happened.
So it's just another example of how the dub just started making shit up for no reason, and it makes the story completely different. Maybe if they want to make up stories that don't have any bearing on the original version they should be in something other than localization.
Actually they only said Gabumon was the first digimon Mars, not that Yamato was the first man on Mars.
WrenchNinja
Member
It's its own universe in the multiverse. It being real or not within Tamers itself doesn't change that. The whole concept of the multiverse and omniverse is the existence of all possibilities of reality.
What are you referring to with the fictional digimon franchise being connected to the digital world of tamers?
Why wouldn't an anime be able to depict the events of Adventure? The digital world in Adventure and Tamers are very different. Whatever company produces the card game in Tamers managed to depict all of these Digimon we see without a gate to the digital world.
Even with Adventure being not a TV show Ryo's whole storyline hardly makes sense anyway, so thankfully Konaka ignored all of his baggage and just made him a cool TCG guy who made it into the digital world.
What does adding the anime do that ignores the rules of the series? The rules of Tamers universe? The adventure anime being fiction gives it more leeway to ignore whatever rules they want.
The premise of Tamers was well known at that point. There was zero chance that introducing that element would have affected anything.
What makes the story completely different? Ive watched the sub and dub and I can most assuredly say that the stories are the same. What are you talking about? You do know that localisation doesn't mean direct translation, right?
Paper Sparrow
Member
He'll probably be too busy crying because he'll never see Guilmon again.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
The fictional TCG within Tamers was based off of the actual Digital World within Tamers. It wasn't a coincidence. The Wild Bunch licensed it out and a franchise was created based off of it (although the masses obviously didn't realize it wasn't just a fictional creation). They based the Digimon off the actual Digimon. I didn't think this was something that hard to understand.
But it wouldn't be possible to create a TV series based off of Adventure without access to the Adventure universe (which is, of course, impossible). Creating a series based around that would either require them to be able to see that universe, or it would be the biggest coincidence in the history of every work of fiction ever. It simply doesn't make any sense.
The dubbers making stuff up could have easily caused major problems. Even though it wound up not (although there are obviously still people confused about this to this day), it was still a silly change because it changed the rules of the universe. The way that the Digimon card game exists within Tamers makes perfect sense. There's absolutely no sense to be found within how the anime could exist there. It's 100% impossible.
Localization doesn't mean "100% literal translation", but it also doesn't mean "make shit up and change the story". Digimon's dubs radically change everything. They removed all of the beautiful original music with synthesized crap, filled up every scene with forced "humor", changed almost every character's personality, censored large parts of the series, and more. They're fundamentally completely different shows. The Tamers dub is slightly less shitty than Adventure and 02's dubs, but it still frequently changes the tone of scenes, adds in tons of made up details (as this whole conversation reveals), and butchers the original work. It's just a little less shitty than the previous two seasons, in that it's only on Dic Sailor Moon level instead of 4Kids One Piece level.
Ganzlinger
Member
I completely agree with KuwabaraTheMan
shadyspace
Banned
Can someone sum up Kuwabara's argument because I am lost.
Ganzlinger
Member
The dubbers shouldn't modify the original work unnecessarily.
Yeah some of the names too, why change? Duke-Gallantmon. That's always been my biggest head-scratcher. Pokemon name changes are at least due to making it easier for an english audience, plus some of their engrish original names sound better. Beedrill > Spear. They made some good decisions. Talonflame for XY was dumb though, since Fiarrow sounds MUCH better. Still, plenty of Pokemon dubbed names sound great.
WrenchNinja
Member
I'm still not seeing how the TCG being based off the digital world invalidates the anime being created. The Wild Bunch stopped developing Digimon ages ago, they would have no hand in any further content creation and merchandising.
Why wouldn't it be possible? Why would they need to see into another universe to create fiction in their own universe? Why would it be a coincidence? Someone creates a world in one universe that's fiction and in another universe that world is real. You see this in media all the time like with comics when referencing Jack Kirby, Stan Lee or Earth Prime. There was an episode of Spider-Man: The Animated Series that had Spidey meet Stan Lee. Stan Lee didn't look into another universe to create Spider-Man. What are you even talking about?
But it didn't cause problems so it's a non-issue. It is totally possible for an anime to exist.
It didn't change the story. I'm not sure why you're acting like it did.
K
BassForever
Member
I think its totally possible in a multiverse like Digimon for the Tamers universe to have a tv show about Adventure and 02 AND to have those stories "be real" in another reality. Heck Tamers could be a tv show in the Adventure universe created after the events at the end of 02. Plus it made for a great advertisement when each of the main characters in the dub liked a different aspect of the Digimon franchise the most. Its like people getting upset that the 09 Star Trek film "erased all of ST" canon.
Ganzlinger
Member
I don't think it's the same thing. Star Trek 2009 is a reboot. It would be the same situation if the original Star Trek from the 60s was a tv show in the 2009 movie.
And I don't see how Adventure could be a show in Tamers and be "real" at the same time. Who did the filming? Who licensed the story from that group of individuals? How it reached the new reality/universe?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Wait, people still think that the Digimon anime exists in a single canon? lol
That's the shonen rule. Even in Tamers and Savers that's not the case since Guilmon and nostrils Agumon still get the "major" stuff. In Xros Wars Shoutmon's army becomes the "major" army.
That's the shonen rule. Even in Tamers and Savers that's not the case since Guilmon and nostrils Agumon still get the "major" stuff. In Xros Wars Shoutmon's army becomes the "major" army.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
On a related note I'm going to miss Xros Wars-esque songs done by Wada Kouji. They were different from his usual J-Pop Digimon songs.
MrSaturn99
Member
I mean, he's not wrong, but I'm definitely no fan of the "loose interpretation".
CoolBatteryCharge
Member
Adventure being a TV show is a bit wonky, but it's also such a non-issue for me and I feel it helped better tie together a lot of the Tamers style of story and themes. While I think Tamers is easily the best season, there are WAAAAY bigger issues I have with it like how Kazu, Kenta, and Ryo work into the story as tamers. If you guys want to talk completely pointless, unnecessary, weird fanservice pandering, and adding pretty much nothing to the story, it's freakin Ryo in a nutshell.
I might try to find time to watch 01 subbed before Tri comes out. I've watched a few major scenes here and there just to see the difference (big evolutions and Tai's goodbye to Kari come to mind), but I want to see how tonally different the series is as a whole. What are the chances this will be simuldubbed?
I doubt I'd be able to wait til it gets dubbed, so I wanna get into it and be consistent with the tone of the first sub if that makes sense.
zero?
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
wow....now this is more like it. Actually like the designs here.
The nostalgia ;___;
Zero
Welp, subbed Tri it is then.
Guess I'll just hope that when it does eventually get dubbed that the old VA's will be brought back. I'm very doubtful that will happen, unfortunately.
cheesy childhood ftw
Doubtful but at least a few like Tai's VA said he would come back if asked so that's something.
That scene is so weird in the American dub. The tone is completely different than what I watched as a kid.
Which version did you first watch? Unless you meant as an adult it seems different than back as a kid.
And angemon's evolution in the sub was top tier.
I liked the dub one too digirap and all
I watched the Arabic dub (same story, soundtrack, tone), in Arabic of course. The weird thing was name change for the children, and the digimon. Felt unnecessary to me, but other than that, they didn't take the liberty to change much. That is why when I watched the original later in my life, it wasn't a jarring transition.
From what I understand, all major dubs of the show (Spanish, German, Korean, Portuguese) where similarly faithful to the original.
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