Most games do yea, but most games also don't have any notable cloud implementations. If there is an offline mode for something like Crackdown, I'd expect the differences to show in whatever was being offloaded (e.g. physics interactions) rather than the graphics. I wouldn't expect them to be like "right, the cloud's gone, do the same calculations locally, and drop the graphics". I just don't see that ever being a scenario that happens. Whatever is being offloaded would most likely simply not work locally at all.
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"The Power of the Cloud" - what happened?
- Thread starter JohnnyFootball
- Start date
Most games do yea, but most games also don't have any notable cloud implementations. If there is an offline mode for something like Crackdown, I'd expect the differences to show in whatever was being offloaded (e.g. physics interactions) rather than the graphics. I wouldn't expect them to be like "right, the cloud's gone, do the same calculations locally, and drop the graphics". I just don't see that ever being a scenario that happens. Whatever is being offloaded would most likely simply not work locally at all.
QFT my brother!
It'd have far more to do with Sony's infrastructure than the PS4 itself.
Not familiar with the word "tend" are we? Also one of TF's major criticisms is the lack of a single player campaign.
DOWN
Banned
Yes, a third of the system's lifespan is significant. None of the changes on old consoles suggested the kind of technological power change that Microsoft is here. Microsoft has clearly positioned their cloud marketing to suggest it would make Xbox One the more powerful console because they fear the bad press they get over One's weaker status, but there is no sign that it will be widespread for them to be making such a comparison suggestive of One deserving the image of a stronger console.
Titanfall still sold well and so did Destiny. Any examples of a recent always online console game that sold poorly?
You're making it sound like this requires new hardware. It just requires games to be developed using it. You're also arguing something nobody here is; I know I'm not thinking it's going to make the XB1 more powerful than the PS4 and I don't think anyone else is either.
travisbickle
Member
I don't know man! Don't you remember how desperate they were at that point?
psykobunny
Banned
I just a saw a Microsoft Cloud commercial. Is advertising ramping up?
Daria Morgendorffer
Member
Dragon Quest X on the 3ds already used up all of the clouds.
magnumpy
Member
then MS should have been espousing the advantages of their "infrastructure" rather than the advantages of "the cloud." it would save them from the unfortunate nickname of "x-bone."
that nickname was because of the name of the system, not whatever you're saying.
Umm... that's what "the cloud" refers to. It's not even a MS specific term. This is probably a discussion you should sit out tbh.
Pathfinder
Member
Not sure I agree with you there. It's pretty well established that Xbox One is the weaker console. They're pushing cloud benefits as something that sets their console apart from PS4. No one is currently saying it's going to suddenly make the console stronger than PS4, except the people who like to form their own narrative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etlT_6zhUCI
This one? They've been advertising it for a few months now. If anything though, it sort of confirms that MS isn't giving up their cloud enhanced gaming vision, and if it works out as well as they're claiming and the differences are noticeable in a huge way, cloud enhanced games will take off massively and MS will reap the benefits through azure so I expect them to push it hard.
Guys don't worry in 2016 or 2017 one game will come out that totally does all the wicked cloud stuff MS promised in 2013.
It will totally deliver because a game developer has never shown a demo with amazing features and then shipped something different or downgraded.
Then we can quote some of you guys in this thread. Its gunna rock can wait till 2017 for this one game.
It will totally deliver because a game developer has never shown a demo with amazing features and then shipped something different or downgraded.
Then we can quote some of you guys in this thread. Its gunna rock can wait till 2017 for this one game.
MindGamingMantis
Banned
It rained. In all seriousness, it's marketing bullshit.
I don't about the cloud with gaming but the MS cloud is real (Azure), last year MS went to my university to show a presentation about Azure, I was there because my teacher took us there. Their infraestructure is very interesting, they explain the technical part but I didnt understand a lot of it and they also show some live demos with diferent companies.
DOWN
Banned
I'm not making a hardware argument that it actually does something to hardware. I'm pointing out Microsoft's marketing aim to suggest that the cloud will negate their hardware weaknesses. They want the cloud power marketing to overcome the hardware weakness perceptions.
Informed consumers know that the cloud isn't going to level the playing field, but Microsoft is indeed equating the cloud "power" to console power for games. That's a facet of the Microsoft angle.
magnumpy
Member
maybe I misunderstood. I thought the "x-bone" monicker was due to the series of bone-headed decisions MS made regarding their system (forced kinect pack-in, the power of the cloud, the weaker GPU, all represent pretty bone-headed decisions IMHO.)
perhaps. maybe it's just over my head. in the meantime, the delta between the two systems installed base continues to grow. what, in your opinion, is the cause of that?
LukasTaves
Member
I got the impression by the leaked docs that until very recently cloud compute was only a preview feature (meant for developers to start playing with it) and not yet available for actual games, save for some Ms sanctioned titles, like Titanfall.
Either way, even if Ms has games in the pipeline showing that the tech demos can actually become real games, and the joke is totally on them now until they do, it's gonna be a while before other developers have meaningful games using it as well, specially if for whatever reason it isn't as viable on non Ms platforms (read Ps4, and Windows outside of the store)
Either way, even if Ms has games in the pipeline showing that the tech demos can actually become real games, and the joke is totally on them now until they do, it's gonna be a while before other developers have meaningful games using it as well, specially if for whatever reason it isn't as viable on non Ms platforms (read Ps4, and Windows outside of the store)
LukasTaves
Member
Nvidia has a working research on the area (even simulating higher amounts of latency than Titanfall has for me) which uses a cloud to render the lightning using the SVOGI that UE4 abandoned (among other methods). Which even a 680 GTX had trouble running.
That's a very graphics boosting use of the cloud, and as they shown, it's also latency tolerant, so I dunno about cloud not working for improving graphics.
Not to mention games like AC which has been calculating lighting changes amortized between some frames since last gen, and also shows in practice that lighting can be latency tolerant.
This isn't what we're discussing, though.
Hugh Swank
Member
Don't know if these things have been mentioned yet, as I did not feel like reading through all the comments, but here ya go.
The newly released dedicated server system for "Party Chat" to resolve connection issues due to NAT compatibility issues and such, is pretty cool and I would imagine it's being facilitated by MS's Azure Cloud.
When you're playing Forza H2, you can quit the game anytime you like, there is no need to go to a menu and select "Save & Quit", as a matter of fact, the option doesn't even exist. Your game and progression is always saved. Again, I'm sure this is a function of MS's Azure Cloud, and it's quite nice.
Anyway, just a couple of quick thoughts, I'm sure there are many other benefits of the Azure Cloud that we XB1 users enjoy without even realizing it, I'm just glad they're there.
The newly released dedicated server system for "Party Chat" to resolve connection issues due to NAT compatibility issues and such, is pretty cool and I would imagine it's being facilitated by MS's Azure Cloud.
When you're playing Forza H2, you can quit the game anytime you like, there is no need to go to a menu and select "Save & Quit", as a matter of fact, the option doesn't even exist. Your game and progression is always saved. Again, I'm sure this is a function of MS's Azure Cloud, and it's quite nice.
Anyway, just a couple of quick thoughts, I'm sure there are many other benefits of the Azure Cloud that we XB1 users enjoy without even realizing it, I'm just glad they're there.
the new 'have you seen titanfall'?...
Hopefully it turns out as fun as Titanfall.
Hans.Gruber
Banned
Yeah "amazing things you can do with webspace" is "power of the cloud" to me.
I already listed Titanfall and Driveatars as instances where it helped.
Never wanna race against mindless railway CPU drivers ever again.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
As much as cloud computing/servers have been shat on, its one of the reasons Driveclub PS+ doesn't exist and that's because it's pushing their servers to the limit. They are collecting and quantifying too many user data and it needs a server or a system that can handle it.
Microsoft was in the wrong to present cloud computing as the exclusive lord and savior, but there are some great uses of it.
Microsoft was in the wrong to present cloud computing as the exclusive lord and savior, but there are some great uses of it.
Any Questions
Member
It will be a thing one day. Of this you can be assured. I kinda think that once it becomes mainstream, really mainstream, cloud computing will make a difference. Time will tell.
Cloud is not a nickname. Its the term used in networks for an entity you don't know whats inside, but you need its service. For example, If I constructed a network diagram for two office locations connected over a normal fibre line, the internet would be represented as a cloud.
It makes my mind hurt when people just say cloud = dedicated servers. The cloud can literally mean anything, its an unknown.
read my post and the post i'm replying to again.
Saving at any time doesn't require "the cloud" at all, Dark Souls did it five years ago.
Na, they are just trying to use the cloud servers they had originally planned for gaming.
Prime crotch
Banned
cloud programming is hard, and very relatively beneficial to games, or rather, we as consumers won't notice any big changes on our end
also, dedicated servers arent cloud, shit, half of what's out there is barely a SaaS
also, dedicated servers arent cloud, shit, half of what's out there is barely a SaaS
Mendax
Member
its vaporware again now.
Technically nothing's happened to it. The issue I expect is utilizing it without excluding too many people.
Netcode tends to try and be as lean and efficient as possible to minimise traffic and allow as many people online as possible - I.e. Even those with weak Internet access.
The more cloud computing is utilised I suspect the more it's netcode footprint improves and the more the game will be artificially limited to a subset with sufficient access.
I'm sure we'll see some games dabble in it more - you'd argue MS has to produce something or look like liars - but I doubt it'll be in every game and I'm curious how heavily it'll be utilised too.
We'll see what they show at E3.
Netcode tends to try and be as lean and efficient as possible to minimise traffic and allow as many people online as possible - I.e. Even those with weak Internet access.
The more cloud computing is utilised I suspect the more it's netcode footprint improves and the more the game will be artificially limited to a subset with sufficient access.
I'm sure we'll see some games dabble in it more - you'd argue MS has to produce something or look like liars - but I doubt it'll be in every game and I'm curious how heavily it'll be utilised too.
We'll see what they show at E3.
DOWN
Banned
Who is we?
According to Evolution, they had a fundamental series of poor coding that caused problems picking up players and their infrastructure ties between the game players and servers were the problem, not Sony's own server infrastructure as a whole.
As was pointed out early on, if Driveclub's issues were just not enough servers, they could have bought their way out of that problem in a matter of hours while they found permanent additions. This was a serious game code flaw, not Sony having a lack of resources for even limited cloud systems.
Dyson Industries
Banned
Uh, that's exactly what we're discussing.
Well, OP talks about it has yet to "improve the gaming experience". It has. A lot of people only seem to equate graphics with an improved gaming experience though.
CarbonFire
Member
It's improved the game experience only insomuch as any server-based games are going to be inherently superior to P2P implementations. Saves being stored centrally so they can be pulled down to any machine is super convenient, but cloud saves have been around for a while now.
The only thing really novel about Microsoft's implementation of their server architecture is how they've made it cost effective to spin up virtual servers on demand, rather than having dedicated hardware that takes time, effort and cost to implement. So it's more cost effective for Microsoft, which means it's more readily available for more games to implement a server-like architecture to support their games. That's an improvement, but more from the business side of things.
On the consumer-facing side, "the cloud" just means dedicated servers and a centrally stored save system. This whole "power of the cloud" cloud rendering nonsense is still highly suspect, and Microsoft has a lot of convincing to do on that front.
Well yea, cloud rendering is... but the server stuff isn't simply an improvement on the business side. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the business side, and end-user side aren't divorced from one another. If hardware components are expensive, you get weaker consoles. If servers are expensive you get p2p. Having the ability to dynamically spin up hosted session is why you can create hosted private games on Titanfall and Horizon 2. It gives you the benefits of standard dedicated servers, with the flexibility of p2p.
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