Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods

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There's bad DLC practices that are beyond of just downright cut content.

Bad quality, expensive and short DLC, skins being sold at high prices, game modes that once came for free, etc...

Definitely, and the solution to those has always been the same: don't buy it. Each time a game I'm interested in has an aggressive or exploitative dlc plan I just skip it on launch and wait until the inevitable Game Of The Year edition. This is my way of trying to force change and get a message across.
 
It's not? I have found that avoiding buying games that include practices I don't like is exactly as simple as it sounds. Yeah companies will still release games with less than optimal practices but I have more games to play than I have time so I think I'll survive.

i'll survive if all game are wiped out of existence tomorrow. I will just move on to something else. Doesnt make it ok.

Definitely, and the solution to those has always been the same: don't buy it. Each time a game I'm interested in has an aggressive or exploitative dlc plan I just skip it on launch and wait until the inevitable Game Of The Year edition. This is my way of trying to force change and get a message across.
it wont get the message across lol. There are so many reasons that a company can assume if it doesnt sell before they even think its their DLC's fault. Maybe the genre is dead!
 
I can count the amount of DLC I have purchased on my hand, but there is still solid content our there. The market has obviously dictated that gamers want additional content. Whether you think that is indicative of quality is entirely subjective.

And I have made my feelings on trusting the market known much earlier. "Trusting the market" and other cowardly wait-and-see attitudes has made many aspects of gaming worse and beneficial only to the already rich.
 
I just feel disgusted that nobody sees a damn ethical problem with bethesda reaping even more of a profit for a work they're not doing, and then saying it's "good for the modders". You might argue that, yes, people are using their engine. But Beth is also known for releasing criminally bugged games at release, with a lot of copy pasted content or removed content from their previous games

For example, SkyUI is now saying it will be behind a paywall, the mod that significantly improved the UI of the game mostly because Bethesda was incompetent in the first place to make a good UI of their own. Arguably, mods like these are what make Skyrim really popular and have legs in the first place. I wouldn't see that game anyway holding up as long on the PC landscape if it didn't have such a modding community. So they already GOT their money, through the repeated sales encouraged by the promise of modding so that effectively you would get a constantly renewable game. Valve also gets money because people are using their platform. The fact that now Bethesda and valve want to profit even more from what was essentially "free advertising and money" by using a creative community and reducing it to basically a shoddy business is what gets me the most.

I don't see the modding community improving over this, or mod quality improving too. Steam doesn't know how to do quality control, if greenlight is any proof. And bethesda isn't known to release actually functional games at release, and this is getting them a free pass to basically exploit a community to provide the fixes for them while not doing any of the work. It's genius really, the consumers basicaly become the QA AND the Dev team to fix it now, under the guise that "it supports the community" while giving them dirt cheap and reaping most of the profits.

Definitely, and the solution to those has always been the same: don't buy it

Barely never ever worked in the gaming industry
 
You guys point to the DLC market as your evidence, but I fail to see how this precludes quality mod development, or even quality DLC for that matter.

I can count the amount of DLC I have purchased on my hand, but there is still solid content our there. The market has obviously dictated that gamers want additional content. Whether you think that is indicative of quality is entirely subjective.

Because there's plenty of DLC that is not high quality, most of it actually, because the reality of the market is that you don't need high quality DLC to make money of it.

Or actually, you often do more money with bad and explotaitive DLC that with good DLC. Because good, worthwhile DLC takes more time and cost to produce and is clearly not as attractive when you can make cheap DLC and, maybe not gain as much, but surely your ROI will be higher.

I don't see how these same principles won't apply to this case.

Definitely, and the solution to those has always been the same: don't buy it. Each time a game I'm interested in has an aggressive or exploitative dlc plan I just skip it on launch and wait until the inevitable Game Of The Year edition. This is my way of trying to force change and get a message across.

And I clearly don't buy it, although I've been guilty a couple of this, and yet here we are, years after the "horse armor" deal (ironically from Bethesda/Elder Scrolls saga) things definetly didn't change.
 
Definitely, and the solution to those has always been the same: don't buy it. Each time a game I'm interested in has an aggressive or exploitative dlc plan I just skip it on launch and wait until the inevitable Game Of The Year edition. This is my way of trying to force change and get a message across.

That's fine and dandy if it wasn't for the fact that this is already killing free mods. People are in the process of removing their mods from the Nexus to either sell it on the Workshop or prevent others from stealing and selling it. It's actively killing modding in the traditional sense as we speak.

Your passive attitude reflects that of someone who didn't really care much for modding to begin with and is perhaps more inclined in seeing this from Valve's perspective rather than the modder/player.

Vote with your wallet is a crappy solution. Solving problems isn't binary. It's a process which requires discussion and feedback. Voting with wallet sounds like a corporate response to avoid the vocal backlash and bad PR.

Edit: What has voting with the wallet actually solved? We're in an industry controlled by an oligopoly of corporations that release the same games annually and reap great profits from it while the competition is reduced to the sidelines fending for the scraps. Seems like solely voting with the wallet has been a very bad solution thus far. People don't vote with their wallets. They consume with their wallets.
 
I just don't like the Steam Workshop, that's my biggest issue with this - getting forced to use what I consider an inferior mod service if I want new versions of some mods (like say SkyUI). I found it a little confusing to use... The best I can tell is you subscribe to a mod and then it installs/runs when you start the game. How will with work for the mods that have an installation order (like texture packs)? Find the one to install first, subscribe, load the game, and repeat with the next one? Seems like it's more annoying than it needs to be... At least, with NMM I can download mods all at once from the Nexus and easily activate them in order one by one...
 
I just don't like the Steam Workshop, that's my biggest issue with this - getting forced to use what I consider an inferior mod service if I want new versions of some mods (like say SkyUI). I found it a little confusing to use... The best I can tell is you subscribe to a mod and then it installs/runs when you start the game. How will with work for the mods that have an installation order (like texture packs)? Find the one to install first, subscribe, load the game, and repeat with the next one? Seems like it's more annoying than it needs to be... At least, with NMM I can download mods all at once from the Nexus and easily activate them in order one by one...

Skyrim has a built-in load order manager which you can access through the launcher, though it gets quite crowded with a lot of mods and isn't that great.
 
I instantly had a horrible reaction to this, when I heard about it. At the gut level, I hate it, but I can see why they'd do this. Some people want to monetize their mods outside of donations. It makes sense, but man this is some harsh change. I don't like most DLC, and most mods are way worse than anything put out by developers. The catch was, they were free, so you tried em, to tweak your gameplay, and look. Now, I won't even bother with 95% of this shit.
 
While we're all taking the piss here, people are stealing free content from the Nexus and re-uploading as paid mods. It's already happened. Mod authors are pulling their stuff down from the Nexus because they don't want their work taken.

And people defend the system that allows for this shit. What a joke.
 
You want to make money for your work? Great. Go make a game. There are many engines to choose from. You go make that money.

Theres no reason to involve mods in this.
 
While we're all taking the piss here, people are stealing free content from the Nexus and re-uploading as paid mods. It's already happened. Mod authors are pulling their stuff down from the Nexus.

And people defend the system that allows for this shit. What a joke.

I agree that some sort of money for huge mods can be implemented. But i also cant believe people are supporting such a clear cash in by Valve and Beth where people are being scammed left and right.
 
While we're all taking the piss here, people are stealing free content from the Nexus and re-uploading as paid mods. It's already happened. Mod authors are pulling their stuff down from the Nexus because they don't want their work taken.

And people defend the system that allows for this shit. What a joke.

Money has a way of... complicating things. Let people who bought your game have their fun the way they always have and don't try to fix what is not broken based on nothing but greed.
 
can someone pinpoint a moment when "voting with your wallet" has actually worked in the gaming industry

Well, when people didn't like the new Sim City and didn't buy it, EA took notice of their errors and started working on a new, improved game that was more in line with what customers wanted.

jk, they closed Maxis and the Sim City series is dead
 
I didn't think much of this until I realized, and am now witnessing, the damage it will do to the mod community. Fuck it, I hope they scrap this quickly. Idiots.
 
While we're all taking the piss here, people are stealing free content from the Nexus and re-uploading as paid mods. It's already happened. Mod authors are pulling their stuff down from the Nexus because they don't want their work taken.

And people defend the system that allows for this shit. What a joke.

Basically, the way I see it is it's ruining it for everyone. Only those with greed, valve and Bethesda have anything to gain from this.

I fail to understand how anyone can say this is good in any way.
 
While we're all taking the piss here, people are stealing free content from the Nexus and re-uploading as paid mods. It's already happened. Mod authors are pulling their stuff down from the Nexus because they don't want their work taken.

And people defend the system that allows for this shit. What a joke.
It's been like two days. Maybe give the system a minute to sort out the nonsense.
 
I agree that some sort of money for huge mods can be implemented. But i also cant believe people are supporting such a clear cash in by Valve and Beth where people are being scammed left and right.

I see no reason why a formal Steam donation system would be the worse option over this flawed, neoliberal shopping mall that Valve wants to turn the modding community into. The only reason is because Bethesda and Valve (already rich as fuck) want their grubby fingers in the pie made by passionate members of a community.

Interloping, greedy corporations always make things worse for communities and markets in the real world so I don't see how it's different here.
 
Don't worry guys the market understands what benefits the public good and can distinguish between quality things and not as quality things.

That's why football players make 100x more money than teachers and half of the world's food produced is thrown away. It's going to regulate itself, we just have to wait for people's reviews to come in and stuff.

Chill out stop posting middle fingers in reviews Bathesda doesn't owe you anything you peasant swine why don't you go and make your own Bathesda studio if you want the full profits from something you created. That disc you bought isn't yours it's still ours bruh.
 
Other than the hundreds of millions up front to develop, market, and distribute the game.
Oh please.

It's not like they gave the game away for free. It has been out for years and they haven't touched it. All of a sudden they want some money from the work of their community without themselves putting me additional effort.

It's smart business if people are willing to eat it up.
 
It's been like two days. Maybe give the system a minute to sort out the nonsense.

How about if you are going to introduce something like this sort your shit out and put measures in place to prevent it happening from the start?

But let's be honest here, neither valve or Bethesda really give a shit as long as they get their cut.
 
This entire thing is disgusting.

I would like to believe Valve should know better but between their employing practices and their addiction to F2P I'm not surprised.

Buy from GOG or other DRM free sites.
 
I see no reason why a formal Steam donation system would be the worse option over this flawed, neoliberal shopping mall that Valve wants to turn the modding community into. The only reason is because Bethesda and Valve (already rich as fuck) want their grubby fingers in the pie made by passionate members of a community.

Interloping, greedy corporations always make things worse for communities and markets in the real world so I don't see how it's different here.

What's a neoliberal shopping mall?
 
I see no reason why a formal Steam donation system would be the worse option over this flawed, neoliberal shopping mall that Valve wants to turn the modding community into. The only reason is because Bethesda and Valve (already rich as fuck) want their grubby fingers in the pie made by passionate members of a community.

Interloping, greedy corporations always make things worse for communities and markets in the real world so I don't see how it's different here.

The saddest thing is all the modders who are now stabbing each other, cursing each other etc etc.

What a shitty way to ruin a perfect community just for some money...
 
Oh please.

It's not like they gave the game away for free. It has been out for years and they haven't touched it. All of a sudden they want some money from the work of their community without themselves putting me additional effort.

It's smart business if people are willing to eat it up.

No one is forcing mod creators to charge money for their mods (in turn giving greedy Valve and Bethesda those profits they are salivating over). Creators have a choice to provide their mods free of charge as always.
 
Already seeing the damage it's doing to nexus, the mod community and the players as devs stop work on mods due to this.

But it's understandable, valve need all the money they can get at the moment due to the cost of developing...erm... more bad ideas? They sure as hell aren't a game developer anymore.
 
The saddest thing is all the modders who are now stabbing each other, cursing each other etc etc.

What a shitty way to ruin a perfect community just for some money...

It's like they failed to realise that many of the best mods out there were in fact collaborative efforts between multiple modders.
 
The saddest thing is all the modders who are now stabbing each other, cursing each other etc etc.

What a shitty way to ruin a perfect community just for some money...

It doesn't even seen to be "some money" either, from initial numbers it seems they made far less than they would have made just putting Skyrim on sale... and managed to lose a lot of good will and hurt the community that keeps their game selling even years later.

So good job with that.
 
What's a neoliberal shopping mall?

I'm referencing a quote made by Robert W. McChesney, a media watchdog and reformist. For context, this is his interpretation of neoliberalist market policies and their adverse effects:

Instead of citizens, it produces consumers. Instead of communities, it produces shopping malls. The net result is an atomized society of disengaged individuals who feel demoralized and socially powerless.

I said this earlier already but Valve is turning a passionate community into a shopping mall. Anyone with a wait-and-see attitude has never seen neoliberals, corporate opportunists, and speculators wreck developing economies and communities.
 
No one is forcing mod creators to charge money for their mods (in turn giving greedy Valve and Bethesda those profits they are salivating over). Creators have a choice to provide their mods free of charge as always.

Thats not the problem. The problem is how divided the community is going to be. All the scam that is already happening. Mods like SkyUI going behind paywall breaking many other mods. all the legal issues. If the system was good than maybe but its just so terrible.
 
No one is forcing mod creators to charge money for their mods (in turn giving greedy Valve and Bethesda those profits they are salivating over). Creators have a choice to provide their mods free of charge as always.

Or having other people upload those mods and charge for it without the creators knowledge or consent!
 
Won't this improve the quality of mods?
This doesn't preclude free mods and not all games will have paid mod support.
Won't this motivate publishers to support modding and release tools?

There are some downsides and there will be growing pains, but I don't think that accounts for the shear amount of vitriol and ranting. The slippery slope arguments are giving me a headache.

Eh, it's more likely to increase the quantity of shit mods. Epic mods like Falskaar and Skywind have too many individuals involved for the 25% cut of whatever amount they could charge to be worth the headache of divvying their nickels. It's a stated reason by Skywind why they won't charge when they release (it's not the only reason and probably not a primary reason). There's gonna' be a lot of sword skins though.

Not that I care on the whole mind you. Modders getting paid is fine by me. But this seems to reward low effort cash grab mods (lol sword skins) more than truly epic things. That doesn't affect many people until mod authors of big things decide it's better to make a lot of smaller things and see what strikes gold. Someone will reply "well if those bigger things make the right money they won't stop," and the problem there is the grander mods are probably worth $10-30 in content, but once you factor in the risks (compatibility, support, etc.), that value drops drastically. Easier to support your one-man, lower effort works. Meanwhile enthusiasts will continue to make stuff for free, much of it still epic. Circles back around to what makes sense to the people doing the work, but consumers have to properly consider their options too of course. But yeah, money = quantity, not quality. Already have quality. Would have had quality either way. And will continue to have quality, just a bit more diluted.

They kind of sacced the Skyrim scene to beta test this for future releases, creating a bunch of backtracking problems that won't exist when Fallout4 and TES6 are released with this as the standard. That was probably a shitty thing to do, though perhaps necessary. People being this mad should have been expected.

tldr shit's a mess yo.

Also comparing mods to hats is stupid. Chiefly because I can sell my hats to someone else when I don't want them anymore, amongst other reasons. Different kinds of content.

For grief, this started as a reply to your post and rambled into something far more general. Sorry if it seems like I'm talking down to you.
 
Xbox One DRM. Although that had a group of people who were trying to tell everyone to just shut up and see what happens.

Xbone One DRM had the biggest Xbox competitor say:"fuck DRM!", if Sony jumped the backwagon, it would have been a different story.

Steam is basically a monopoly, who is going to stand up and say:"fuck paid mods!". Origin?
 
This happens with every program and company that gets big doesn't it? Looks like they got arrogant with the monetisation and it's all downhill from here.

What's that Gaben quote about how people will never forget if you try to bullshit them? He'll be eating those words soon.
 
Xbox One DRM. Although that had a group of people who were trying to tell everyone to just shut up and see what happens.

But that was with a device not a service.

Steam has reached near monopoly with its use in PC gaming.

Hell modding was the reason why Steam really took off. If it wasn't for shit like HL2 CTF or Sourceforts people would have left steam as a buggy online store and a shit IRC client.
 
Xbone One DRM had the biggest Xbox competitor say:"fuck DRM!", if Sony jumped the backwagon, it would have been a different story.

Steam is basically a monopoly, who is going to stand up and say:"fuck paid mods!". Origin?

This is what people wanted though, by irrationally avoiding other platforms "because it's not steam".
 
I don't see this going away anytime soon. This seems part of Valve's endgame for steam. There's really nothing else they can charge their 30% cut after this right? (referring to UGC)

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/07/gabe-newell-discusses-how-to-reinvent-gaming

"Newell believes that users are as important as developers and should even be able to assign quests for other players in games. He believes the next logical step is that even a store should be looked at as user-generated content."
 
Your passive attitude reflects that of someone who didn't really care much for modding to begin with and is perhaps more inclined in seeing this from Valve's perspective rather than the modder/player.
I guess I also don't care for modding.

So wait, the modding community isn't in fact wonderful, but instead it's filled with money hungry backstabbing thieves?
Seems like it. They were just biding their time, waiting for the opportunity to pounce.


Or perhaps the internet is being the internet.
 
Xbox One DRM. Although that had a group of people who were trying to tell everyone to just shut up and see what happens.

The "let's wait and see" crowd doesn't seem to get that once something like that is started it's extremely hard/unlikely for it to be reneged. It becomes the new normal.

That's why people do all the democracy stuff (aka complaining/whining/bitching/raging etc. whatever people like to call it) beforehand or during the initial process, because that's the time things can still be changed.

So wait, the modding community isn't in fact wonderful, but instead it's filled with money hungry backstabbing thieves?

It's almost as if a system based on competition encourages people to become shitty human beings, and rewards them more the worse they get.
 
I guess I also don't care for modding.

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