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Obama to Unveil Tougher Climate Plan With His Legacy in Mind

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GK86

Homeland Security Fail
Link. Searched and didn't see a thread.

In the strongest action ever taken in the United States to combat climate change, President Obama will unveil on Monday a set of environmental regulations devised to sharply cut planet-warming greenhouse gas emissions from the nation’s power plants and ultimately transform America’s electricity industry.

The rules are the final, tougher versions of proposed regulations that the Environmental Protection Agency announced in 2012 and 2014. If they withstand the expected legal challenges, the regulations will set in motion sweeping policy changes that could shut down hundreds of coal-fired power plants, freeze construction of new coal plants and create a boom in the production of wind and solar power and other renewable energy sources.

As the president came to see the fight against climate change as central to his legacy, as important as the Affordable Care Act, he moved to strengthen the energy proposals, advisers said. The health law became the dominant political issue of the 2010 congressional elections and faced dozens of legislative assaults before surviving two Supreme Court challenges largely intact.

“Climate change is not a problem for another generation, not anymore,” Mr. Obama said in a video posted on Facebook at midnight Saturday. He called the new rules “the biggest, most important step we’ve ever taken to combat climate change.”

The most aggressive of the regulations requires the nation’s existing power plants to cut emissions 32 percent from 2005 levels by 2030, an increase from the 30 percent target proposed in the draft regulation.

That new rule also demands that power plants use more renewable sources of energy like wind and solar power. While the proposed rule would have allowed states to lower emissions by transitioning from plants fired by coal to plants fired by natural gas, which produces about half the carbon pollution of coal, the final rule is intended to push electric utilities to invest more quickly in renewable sources, raising to 28 percent from 22 percent the share of generating capacity that would come from such sources.


In its final version, the rule retains the same basic structure as the draft proposal: It assigns each state a target for reducing its carbon pollution from power plants, but allows states to create their own custom plans for doing so. States have to submit an initial version of their plans by 2016 and final versions by 2018.

But over all, the final rule is even stronger than earlier drafts and can be seen as an effort by Mr. Obama to stake out an uncompromising position on the issue during his final months in office.

The anticipated final climate change regulations have already set off what is expected to be broad legal, legislative and political backlash as dozens of states, major corporations and industry groups prepare to file lawsuits challenging them.

Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican majority leader, has started an unusual pre-emptive campaign against the rules, asking governors to refuse to comply. Attorneys general from more than a dozen states are preparing legal challenges against the plan. Experts estimate that as many as 25 states will join in a suit against the rules and that the disputes will end up before the Supreme Court.

Leading the legal charge are states like Wyoming and West Virginia with economies that depend heavily on coal mining or cheap coal-fired electricity. Emissions from coal-fired power plants are the nation’s single largest source of carbon pollution, and lawmakers who oppose the rules have denounced them as a “war on coal.”

“Once the E.P.A. finalizes this regulation, West Virginia will go to court, and we will challenge it,” Patrick Morrisey, the attorney general of West Virginia, said in an interview with a radio station in the state on Friday. “We think this regulation is terrible for the consumers of the state of West Virginia. It’s going to lead to reduced jobs, higher electricity rates, and really will put stress on the reliability of the power grid. The worst part of this proposal is that it’s flatly illegal under the Clean Air Act and the Constitution, and we intend to challenge it vigorously.”

Although Obama administration officials have repeatedly said states will have flexibility to design their own plans, the final rules are explicitly meant to encourage the use of interstate cap-and-trade systems, in which states place a cap on carbon pollution and then create a market for buying permits or credits to pollute. The idea is that forcing companies to pay to pollute will drive them to cleaner sources of energy.

Mr. Obama tried but failed to push through a cap-and-trade bill in his first term, and since then, the term has become politically toxic: Republicans have attacked the idea as “cap and tax.”

But if the climate change regulations withstand legal challenges, many states could still end up putting cap-and-trade systems into effect. Officials familiar with the final rules said that in many cases, the easiest and cheapest way for states to comply would be by adopting cap-and-trade systems.

The rules take into account the fact that some states may refuse to submit plans, and on Monday, the administration will also unveil a template for a plan to be imposed on such states. That plan will include the option of allowing a state to join an interstate cap-and-trade system.

The rules will also offer financial benefits for states that choose to take part in cap-and-trade systems. The final rules will extend until 2022 the timeline for states and electric utilities to comply, two years later than originally proposed. But states that begin to take actions to cut carbon pollution as early as 2020 will be rewarded with carbon reduction credits — essentially, pollution permits that can be sold for cash in a cap-and-trade market.

Climate scientists warn that rising greenhouse gas emissions are rapidly moving the planet toward a global atmospheric temperature increase of 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit, the point past which the world will be locked into a future of rising sea levels, more devastating storms and droughts, and shortages of food and water. Mr. Obama’s new rules alone will not be enough to stave off that future. But experts say that if the rules are combined with similar action from the world’s other major economies, as well as additional action by the next American president, emissions could level off enough to prevent the worst effects of climate change.

Mr. Obama intends to use the new rules to push other countries to commit to deep reductions in their own carbon emissions before a United Nations summit meeting in Paris in December, when a global accord to fight climate change is expected to be signed.

Mr. Obama’s pledge that the United States would enact the climate change rules was at the heart of a pact that he made last year with President Xi Jinping of China, committing their nations, the world’s two largest carbon polluters, to substantially cut emissions.

“It’s the linchpin of the administration’s domestic effort and international effort on climate change,” said Durwood Zaelke, president of the Institute for Governance and Sustainable Development, a research organization. “It raises the diplomatic stakes in the run-up to Paris. He can take it on the road and use it as leverage with other big economies — China, India, Brazil, South Africa, Indonesia.”

While opponents of the rules have estimated that compliance will cost billions of dollars, raise residential electricity rates and slow the American economy, the administration argues that the rules will save the average American family $85 annually in electricity costs and bring additional health benefits by reducing emissions of pollutants that cause asthma and lung disease.

The rules will be announced at a White House ceremony on Monday and signed by Gina McCarthy, the Environmental Protection Agency administrator. While the ceremony is scheduled to take place on the White House’s South Lawn, officials said it might be moved indoors to the East Room after forecasters predicted that the weather would be too hot.
 

Ke0

Member
skYOFwB.gif
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
I'll believe it when I see it. So far, climate policies have been nothing but empty talk.

And of course, the Republicans will suck up to their donors and try to sabotage any meaningful effort.
 
Is the net result of coal mining actually worse than all the fracking we're doing, or does the image make it look worse? Genuinely curious of the science and math involved.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Still no push towards making Nuclear less of a red tape hassle.

Why would you want less red tape for nuclear?

The problem isn't the red tape, it's the reluctance to create modern nuclear plants because of the cold war and the 1st and 2nd generation plant disasters.
 

antonz

Member
Why would you want less red tape for nuclear?

The problem isn't the red tape, it's the reluctance to create modern nuclear plants because of the cold war and the 1st and 2nd generation plant disasters.

There are a ton of new plant designs. Ones that even the Federal government have approved. The Red Tape is allowing environmental groups etc. to delay any project that does happen to get approved stuck in court for a decade or more.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Why couldn't we have this Obama from 2009-2010? =(

Because this is about his post-presidency plans/career more than anything. He'll probably do what Gore tried to do, but much more successfully.
 

Coolluck

Member
I'm surprised he's not waiting for his third term to do this.

My two favorite Obama gifs are accounted for. Has anyone edited Star Wars stuff into the Emperor Obama gif?
 

Blader

Member
I'll believe it when I see it. So far, climate policies have been nothing but empty talk.
Unless you have a time machine to take you to 2030, you're not going to see these big demonstrable changes yet anyway. Climate action is a long game, you're not going to see anything but talk for many years no matter what happens.

To say nothing of the fact that renewables, mainly solar, have really shot up the last couple years.
 

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
Why would you want less red tape for nuclear?

The problem isn't the red tape, it's the reluctance to create modern nuclear plants because of the cold war and the 1st and 2nd generation plant disasters.

They already improved it with the Licensing overhaul back in 1989 and per-approved designs, specifically with the Gen III Advance reactors and the eventual Gen IV reactors. Add on SMR reactor designs that cost about a 1/10 of the cost and don't need the same infrastructure costs.

Issue is just the idiocy caught up with it.

The other issue with this is that Solar and Wind can not replace Coal/Natural Gas/Nuclear as the base load provider.
 
Any plan for base load (aka: "we're shutting down coal plants!") that doesn't involve nuclear is doomed to fail.

So... uh... hopefully this plan does something to help with that?
 
I'll believe it when I see it. So far, climate policies have been nothing but empty talk.

And of course, the Republicans will suck up to their donors and try to sabotage any meaningful effort.

Too bad in EPA vs. Massachusetts the supreme court ruled that carbon pollution can be regulated like any other pollutant.

Sure, there are going to be lawsuits to fight it, but it's going to be impossible to win them.

People asking why this didn't happen in 09-10 forget

1) He did try to introduce a cap and trade bill, but it was killed
2) He was trying to prevent the next great depression
 

clav

Member
They already improved it with the Licensing overhaul back in 1989 and per-approved designs, specifically with the Gen III Advance reactors and the eventual Gen IV reactors. Add on SMR reactor designs that cost about a 1/10 of the cost and don't need the same infrastructure costs.

Issue is just the idiocy caught up with it.

The other issue with this is that Solar and Wind can not replace Coal/Natural Gas/Nuclear as the base load provider.

In the end, an energy rehaul project relies on maintenance costs. A lot of pessimists in that area because of history.

Wonder if he will say anything about nuclear energy.
 
There are a ton of new plant designs. Ones that even the Federal government have approved. The Red Tape is allowing environmental groups etc. to delay any project that does happen to get approved stuck in court for a decade or more.

See, this is something that bothers me. There are plenty of people, and cities, that ate trying to push for more renewable energy sources. Which is aweosme, I approve! Bit then you hit the hurdles. And it's not just for nuclear, it's for solar and wind also. And it's not always from people on the right like you wpuld asume. Environmental groups can be just as much as a pain in the ass an any lobbyist.

I think it's out west a city wants to build up a huge solar farm, but they are being held up by animal rights activists because of a group of wild sheep. They are fucking sheep, not the endangered fucking southwest speckled gecko. Shoot them, give the meat to some god shelters, and build the fucking solar farm. At this point, you have to surrender something to win something in the US. Fighting to save a small plot of land in the grand scheme is only hurting us all in the end.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
Obama really is a pretty good president. I wonder how he will be looked upon in a decade.

Quite a lot like Johnson or maybe Reagan. President Obama will never be considered one of the "greats" like FDR or Lincoln, but will be a favorite among his party for decades. He'll be quoted by future candidates and studied pretty intently by future historians. Most importantly, every political reform of the 2010s (gay marriage, Cuba overhaul, drones, and healthcare) will be seen as Obama's own doing.
 
He's got nothing to lose. Politicians are usually more effective, more daring when they don't have to worry about being re-elected.
 

Aurongel

Member
History will likely be kind to him considering the social demographics he's helped will be much larger 20-40 years from now and his critics now will be part of the minority (or at least shrinking). His changes to healthcare though will probably not be remembered as fondly.
 

Africanus

Member
Any plan for base load (aka: "we're shutting down coal plants!") that doesn't involve nuclear is doomed to fail.

So... uh... hopefully this plan does something to help with that?

The three mile island incident unfortunately still casts a long shadow over the usage of Nuclear energy.
 
I haven't done a ton of research on it, so I recognize I'm speaking from a position of ignorance, but I just get this feeling that the conversation has changed from "we have to stop climate change" to "we have to stop climate change from being really really shitty." Which is depressing.
 

RowdyReverb

Member
This is all well and good, but it won't curtail the effects of the greenhouse gases from other industrialized nations around the globe. It's a start though.
 

jb1234

Member
This is all well and good, but it won't curtail the effects of the greenhouse gases from other industrialized nations around the globe. It's a start though.

And there's still very little being done about emissions from transportation sources, electric cars aside.
 
History will likely be kind to him considering the social demographics he's helped will be much larger 20-40 years from now and his critics now will be part of the minority (or at least shrinking). His changes to healthcare though will probably not be remembered as fondly.

It'll be one of the biggest things he's rememered for. Traditionally large government programs like that are improved over the years and the president who presided over its passage is credited. Nobody today remembers that initially social security only applied widows and a small other group of people, plus strictly did not apply to any black people.

In 20 years Obamacare might be actual universal healthcare. It's basically a trojan horse in of itself. They couldn't get Medicare For All included, but I could see a legislature in the future eliminating Medicaid's income limits and changing reimbursement.
 

KHarvey16

Member
It'll be one of the biggest things he's rememered for. Traditionally large government programs like that are improved over the years and the president who presided over its passage is credited. Nobody today remembers that initially social security only applied widows and a small other group of people, plus strictly did not apply to any black people.

In 20 years Obamacare might be actual universal healthcare. It's basically a trojan horse in of itself. They couldn't get Medicare For All included, but I could see a legislature in the future eliminating Medicaid's income limits and changing reimbursement.

Yup, all of the infrastructure is there for it to be implemented when the political climate is more open to it.
 

Link

The Autumn Wind
It'll be one of the biggest things he's rememered for. Traditionally large government programs like that are improved over the years and the president who presided over its passage is credited. Nobody today remembers that initially social security only applied widows and a small other group of people, plus strictly did not apply to any black people.

In 20 years Obamacare might be actual universal healthcare. It's basically a trojan horse in of itself. They couldn't get Medicare For All included, but I could see a legislature in the future eliminating Medicaid's income limits and changing reimbursement.
Exactly. The fact that he was able to change the system at all is a huge accomplishment and makes further changes much less of a hurdle.
 

Iksenpets

Banned
Why couldn't we have this Obama from 2009-2010? =(

I don't think people would have accepted these kinds of moves back then. It's taken a half decade of Republican obstinance to get people to the point where we're now joyously embracing Obama's unilateral moves. In 2009 there would've been way bigger backlash about subverting the constitution or whatever.
 

Wall

Member
I haven't done a ton of research on it, so I recognize I'm speaking from a position of ignorance, but I just get this feeling that the conversation has changed from "we have to stop climate change" to "we have to stop climate change from being really really shitty." Which is depressing.

Pretty much...............whatever you do, don't google "methane hydrates".

I am glad Obama is being serious about this, though. He gets it. What we really need are more aggressive efforts to roll out solar panels and charging stations for electric cars along city streets. Battery costs are quickly dropping to the point where electric cars will be economical, but half the country doesn't have anywhere to plug them in! That would require the Democrats winning back the house and senate, though, which isn't happening anytime soon at the rate they are going.

Public perceptions of nuclear is too negative for it ever to get a foothold - which is unfortunate.
 

Mimosa97

Member
I can't believe that we're still using coal to fuel powerplants in 2015.

I'm still mad at the germans for going back to coal. I thought things were less grim in the US.
 
Give me nuclear. Seems like there have been a lot of advances in technology which addresses a lot of the fears people commonly have.

Nuclear as the backbone with wind, solar and maybe water as supplements in areas it makes sense.
 
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