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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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But Cipher knew that Big Boss was a mercenary warmonger through Venom! That was the entire point of even trying to throw people off of Big Boss's trail by having Venom get all the attention! Wouldn't it be completely detrimental to this massive gambit to be like "Oh, I was leading a mercenary group but psyche, I'm now leading a US black-op team with my clone in it lol"?

Well that's a thing that still with Eva's explanation didn't make much sense and everyone expected to be explained in this game. sike

It's all about the headcanon from here, like maybe Diamond Dogs went underground for a while or Big Boss was like "im sorry guys, is it cool if i return to my old unit?" or something. Keep in mind FOXHOUND was already created in the 1970s so maybe Big Boss coming back wasn't seen as weird. He could even use the XOF attack as an excuse to why he returned.
 
What games would you say deserve that stamp of quality? I'm curious.



Wait, How does it explain away Gray Fox's absence?

Well honestly I loved the narrative of Shadow of The Colossus. However that's beside the point.

The Japanese have an entire different checklist for "quality" writing. Cultural context, and understanding play into the quality of story. For one thing, this is a Japanese man, with Japanese sensibilities phoning in what he knows of western culture from movies, and books. His actual understanding of english is pretty poor to be honest, which is why he often needs a translator. MGS suffers from a misunderstanding of our culture, and attempting to relate to Japanese culture when the two are VERY different.

That's not to say it's bad, it's just not tailored towards western sensibilities, which is why it comes off as whacky as shit, EVEN when it's attempting to be serious.

Games are hard to pin down for narratives as far as Japanese writing goes, but there are few I find have much better writing than others.

Shadow of The Colossus and Ico are both amazing, and utilize a completed new and created culture and story to weave a tale. The amount of mystery in those games is nuts, but the story telling needs no words. I know it's an old harp to start strumming, but I love them.

As far as actual writing goes, I love the Yakuza series. It keeps it's story straight, and while conspiracies might happen they are self contained within each title.The actual character development of Kazuma Kiryu is well done. He was a young punk, and became a very normal and reformed man, wise, and very fatherly.

Japanese games with good writing are at their best when they are subtle, and as non-spoken as possible. Something that MGSV attempts to do, but is backed by the rambling series known for it's batshit dialogue/monologues. Dark Souls, and Bloodborne tell really great stories with very little dialogue... and when there is dialogue... it hits harder. Unfortunately it's very popular to over emote characters in Japanese writing styles. I believe it kind of stems from classic Noh, and Kabuki theater, where exaggerated movements were used to get a point across. Hell it's used in Sentai to this day, look at the silly jerky movements they make when talking.

Japanese writing works best when they are able to portray context without words, or with as few words as possible. Take it from a Japanese/Anthropology major. It's one of the reasons Quiets story arc is actually not all that bad. She never talks, but you begin to understand her, and where she's coming from (too bad about the bikini thing though... that's stupid and titillation)

It's why I liked the twist at the end. As far as western writing I prefered Bioshock Infinite's story. I wasn't AS big a fan of the first Bioshock because Frank Fontaine was overdone, but it was decent. Bioshock Infinite did some amazing things with it's narrative, however the DLC was crap... It all depends. Half Life's narrative is silly but well written as well.

TLoU was just far too basic, and boring, as well. It was overdone, the characters were stereotypes, and the ending was silly. It was well acted, but it was a mess as far as written narratives go.
 
That is the craziest thing I have ever a witness to in a AAA game. Like that wasn't a fan-made explanation or theory. The protagonist of MGS3 (former good guy) is plainly a Body-Snatching villian.

The only instance of Big Boss actually being evil in this game is that he put his own best soldier into a forced coma and stole 9 years of his life (we know venom was awake after accident; "What about him")

He also purposefully blinded him in one eye because people would notice if BB had regrown a new eye.

He then brainwashed him.

Despite ALL THIS, Venom STILL forgives Big Boss and works with him to build outer heaven.

The ultimate irony is Venom was the only one to stay true to the Boss' Will, and he never fucking met her;

Loyalty To The End

Venom Snake, the TRUE hero of Metal Gear.
 
Ocelot in MGSV is definitely the most boring iteration of Ocelot. I thought he'd have more of an edge to him, but he was rather flat in this game. Felt like he was there more for fan service. His character doesnt really bridge the developmental gap between MGS3 and MGS1 Ocelot.

Ocelot's whole hypnotizing himself to believe Venom is Big Boss thing feels like a desperate attempt to validate the ridicousness of his MGS4 hypnotherapy twist. Sometimes Kojima does a little too much explaining. MGS3 is my favorite Metal Gear story and not ever do they attempt to explain the supernatural powers of the Cobra Unit. And they don't need to! But in MGSV we get "Cobra Unit was that way because parasites." I liked the idea of parasites as a language destroying disease, but then everything becomes "because parasites." Fuck.

I came in expecting Erron Black Ocelot and got Quaalude Ocelot. What I'm trying to say he's boring.
 
So basically, Skull Face attacked the hospital because he was scared Big Boss would be angry about him attacking MSF and would come after him to get revenge.

when he runs into Venom during Killer Bee, he has him literally in a giant robot hand and could crush him in an instant but lets him go because ???

he kind of wants him to die cos he's like "RIP this time" and sicks the skulls on him, but he seriously could've just killed him there but doesn't because...???

you're such a theatre actor skully
 
What the hell was up with people responding to the lack of Snake talking critique with ''listen to the tapes''. He is barely in them either.

I didn't get it either. Yeah, he says more in the tapes than he does in the game but still, the tapes are 90% Ocelot and Kaz with the rest of the cast filling out that other 10%.
 
MGS3 Ocelot is the best Ocelot.

And I don't say that a lot for "whiny" type characters.

i love the bit where he corners snake on the pipe and basically just wants to show off that he kept the bullet that jammed his gun the first time they met

you're such a fucking nerd, ocelot
 
But seriously, I can't remember why Skull Face destroyed Mother Base.

THE TROJAN HORSE IS IN.

In that game it was because he was working for Zero, and Zero wanted to kill big boss as was shown by him stealing Zeke and trying to stomp Big Boss with it (if he refused to rejoin the patriots)

But in the truth tapes we find out that Zero had actually forgiven Big Boss by ground zeroes in his own mind and just wished he could see his old friend again.

Making Skull Face's reason for murdering hundreds of soldiers on MSF ....

Because he was mad he was part of the cleanup crew in MGS3? ...


Fuck this game.
 
i love the bit where he corners snake on the pipe and basically just wants to show off that he kept the bullet that jammed his gun the first time they met

you're such a fucking nerd, ocelot

If there's one Ocelot moment I liked in MGSV, it was the one that referenced the silly engraving thing he did in 3. Actually got a good chuckle from that.
 
THE TROJAN HORSE IS IN.

In that game it was because he was working for Zero, and Zero wanted to kill big boss as was shown by him stealing Zeke and trying to stomp Big Boss with it (if he refused to rejoin the patriots)

But in the truth tapes we find out that Zero had actually forgiven Big Boss by ground zeroes in his own mind and just wished he could see his old friend again.

Making Skull Face's reason for murdering hundreds of soldiers on MSF ....

Because he was mad he was part of the cleanup crew in MGS3? ...


Fuck this game.

actually zeke was supposed to frame msf for launching a nuke, not kill Big Boss. Even Paz knew that Zero would never want to kill Snake.

Skullface launched the Trojan Horse operation on his own...why? Probably cuz he was mad salty at Snake having more of a position in Cipher than he did.
 
But seriously, I can't remember why Skull Face destroyed Mother Base.

Zero didn't know why but assumed it was possibly because he wasn't a fan of being the man's shadow. In all likelihood, it was an attack on something Zero held dear, and it would eventually cause Zero to act in a predictable, manner..

While Steven Seagal is a piece of shit, his aikido in the movies has one trait that makes sense, and I think the principle applies to Skull Face's tactics. He always gives a guy a little shove that provokes the target into a big action, which he then counters.

Skull Face does in fact say that he doesn't hate the man inherently.
 
Got the leather jacked and the rocket punch finally, returned to the game after a week.

After returning to mother base a cutscene played with Ocelod and DD recieving me, hadn't returned in some time, DD was pretty have to see Venom.
 
actually zeke was supposed to frame msf for launching a nuke, not kill Big Boss. Even Paz knew that Zero would never want to kill Snake.

Skullface launched the Trojan Horse operation on his own...why? Probably cuz he was mad salty at Snake having more of a position in Cipher than he did.

No it was Peace Walker that would frame MSF (all done with Coldman and Galvez/Zadornov) while Paz (and Cipher/Zero) wanted to make BB come back either by asking nicely or by force (stepping on him with ZEKE).

Then GZ has BB trying to get Paz (and chico who left to get her) but SF was getting info on where Zero was from Paz so he could kill him.

Then SF goes to MB pretending to be the IAEA or whatever to blow the base up and pick up Huey to help make his Metal Gear and also kill BB?
 
Uh, how does the develop/dispose of nuclear weapons stuff work? I remember getting the notification that I could "do it" in my idroid, but I'm just can't see anything here.
 
Zero didn't know why but assumed it was possibly because he wasn't a fan of being the man's shadow. In all likelihood, it was an attack on something Zero held dear, and it would eventually cause Zero to act in a predictable, manner..

While Steven Seagal is a piece of shit, his aikido in the movies has one trait that makes sense, and I think the principle applies to Skull Face's tactics. He always gives a guy a little shove that provokes the target into a big action, which he then counters.

Skull Face does in fact say that he doesn't hate the man inherently.

Alright, yeah, I can work with that logic.

Attack Big Boss because you know that makes Zero's next few actions predictable.

If only it was explained in the game as elegantly as you just explained it.

Uh, how does the develop/dispose of nuclear weapons stuff work? I remember getting the notification that I could "do it" in my idroid, but I'm just can't see anything here.

In the resources menu.
 
If there's one Ocelot moment I liked in MGSV, it was the one that referenced the silly engraving thing he did in 3. Actually got a good chuckle from that.

It's great, until they refer to the gun that the soldier is using as a revolver WHEN IT'S CLEARLY A FUCKING 9MM SEMI-AUTOMATIC

PbmKlkg.jpg


Even when it comes to easter eggs MGSV manages to completely fuck up.
 
Skull attacking MSF was an attack on Zero. Not on Big Boss. Skull had been deceiving Zero for years at that point, planning his new gambit. This was teh start of it.
 
It's great, until they refer to the gun that the soldier is using as a revolver WHEN IT'S CLEARLY A FUCKING 9MM SEMI-AUTOMATIC
Even when it comes to easter eggs MGSV manages to completely fuck up.

Ocelot was telling him that he should only do those fancy tricks with a revolver, not an automatic.
 
Even with all the revisionist history, MGS4 never really established Zero as a moustache twirling villain who wanted to kill Big Boss. The central plot of the Patriots/Outer Heaven is that Zero never hated Big Boss, if anything idolised him, and panicked when Big Boss pulled the plug on the Patriots. The Patriot AI was the culmination of Zero's plans to automate the world and control it behind the scenes, and the events of MGS4 were the result of the AI getting caught in an unintended feedback loop. By that point Zero was catatonic and unable to do anything, but Big Boss and co nevertheless blamed him for establishing the AI in the first place.

The Ground Zeroes attack is purely Skullface hating on Big Boss because wuuurdddsss and such a lust for revenge.
 
No it was Peace Walker that would frame MSF (all done with Coldman and Galvez/Zadornov) while Paz (and Cipher/Zero) wanted to make BB come back either by asking nicely or by force (stepping on him with ZEKE).

Then GZ has BB trying to get Paz (and chico who left to get her) but SF was getting info on where Zero was from Paz so he could kill him.

Then SF goes to MB pretending to be the IAEA or whatever to blow the base up and pick up Huey to help make his Metal Gear and also kill BB?
No, he knew Snake would go to Camp Omega to save Chico, in one of the GZ tapes he mentions to Chico that he'll keep security around him light so Snake will be able to get him out.

He wants Snake to take Chico so he'll tell Snake about all the crazy stuff he did to Paz and him for some reason, that's also the only reason why they didn't kill Chico after he told them were the original Mother Base was.
 
I feel like the kind of ppl who shit on MGS2 and it's dialogue are the same peeps who play games with podcasts playing in their headphones. Like, please show me your definition of God Tier writing that makes MGS2 such a piece of shit for some of you.

Actually they don't even play the game, twitch + podcast = OMG the game is so bad kojimatrololo, by the way I didn't play it but I saw the scene on stream and it was some crazy batshit blablablah
 
Ōkami;178690916 said:
No, he knew Snake would go to Camp Omega to save Chico, in one of the GZ tapes he mentions to Chico that he'll keep security around him light so Snake will be able to get him out.

He wants Snake to take Chico as to know of all the crazy stuff he did to Paz and him for some reason, that's also the only reason why they didn't kill Chico after he told them were the original Mother Base is.

Yeah, but he also put bombs in Paz. If he wanted to just kill her he could have. They were left in her so BB would rescue her and blow up. He even had a back up bomb in the vagina! He definitely wanted to kill BB.
 
ut Big Boss and co nevertheless blamed him for establishing the AI in the first place.

The Ground Zeroes attack is purely Skullface hating on Big Boss because wuuurdddsss and such a lust for revenge.

Which is why he doesn't kill him later on despite having multiple chances, like when he's being held in the hand of Sahelanthropus.....

You're probably the person that has managed to give the closest logical reason for this game's existence yet though.
 
Ok, so Skull Face's plan...

Fuel hatred between Zero and Big Boss by framing Cipher for an attack against Mother Base. This makes the actions of both of them predictable.

Poison Zero and hope that he has you sent to Africa to continue presumed dead-end research rather than have you killed.

Attack Big Boss, finding his location by following a fire dude who walks slowly, but also not preparing your men to avoid him...

Nah, I can't make sense of it.
 
I know it's super cliched for video games, but I would have preferred that they used the amnesia idea for Venom. He is told they he is Big Boss, and he simply goes along with it. It would explain why Venom is so silent in this game. He wouldn't know how to react to most of the stuff said to him.

This whole "hypnotherapy" is some real lazy ass writing. Venom has all the knowledge and experience of Big Boss and Ocelot dumbs himself down so he thinks Venom is the real Big Boss? That's just...stupid, what's the point of cloning people if they can turn anyone into the ultimate soldier through a bit of subconscious meddling?
 
Which is why he doesn't kill him later on despite having multiple chances, like when he's being held in the hand of Sahelanthropus.....

You're probably the person that has managest to give the closest logical reason for this game's existence yet though.

Well, the logical reason this game exists is because Konami wanted more Metal Gear since it's been successful for them, and Kojima wasn't going to say no to a big budget to play around with, even if he had no desire to make another Metal Gear.
 
Ok, so Skull Face's plan...

Fuel hatred between Zero and Big Boss by framing Cipher for an attack against Mother Base. This makes the actions of both of them predictable.

Poison Zero and hope that he has you sent to Africa to continue presumed dead-end research rather than have you killed.

Attack Big Boss, finding his location by following a fire dude who walks slowly, but also not preparing your men to avoid him...

Nah, I can't make sense of it.

Forgot the attempted bombing of BB by placing two bombs inside a woman who BB will rescue.

Only reason it failed was because they got the first one out and Paz gained conciousness for long enough to jump out of the helicopter.
 
Ok, so Skull Face's plan...

Fuel hatred between Zero and Big Boss by framing Cipher for an attack against Mother Base. This makes the actions of both of them predictable.

Poison Zero and hope that he has you sent to Africa to continue presumed dead-end research rather than have you killed.

Attack Big Boss, finding his location by following a fire dude who walks slowly, but also not preparing your men to avoid him...

Nah, I can't make sense of it.

This part right here tho. Was there any legit reason given in the game for Zero doing that? Instead of just executing him on the spot for that? Or disbanding XOF and putting him in prison?
 
I know it's super cliched for video games, but I would have preferred that they used the amnesia idea for Venom. He is told they he is Big Boss, and he simply goes along with it. It would explain why Venom is so silent in this game. He wouldn't know how to react to most of the stuff said to him.

This whole "hypnotherapy" is some real lazy ass writing. Venom has all the knowledge and experience of Big Boss and Ocelot dumbs himself down so he thinks Venom is the real Big Boss? That's just...stupid, what's the point of cloning people if they can turn anyone into the ultimate soldier through a bit of subconscious meddling?

Yeah, I didn't get that.

Just have him be an amnesiac. He wouldn't have a memory, so he might doubt his own identity, and that would be a more interesting story to watch play out. He knows the events but he doesn't know them as his own past.

The only other thing would be knowing CQC and how to operate guns, but that would be more soldier muscle memory anyway.
 
maybe skullface didnt only get his skin burned off, he doesnt seem very bright
but yeah he attacked big boss because then he could get Zero to go in full panic mode and make a mistake, which he did, seems like the most reasonable explanation. He attacks him in MGSV because he knows he'll have a lust for revenge and will ruin his lingua franca plan.
 
Ok, so Skull Face's plan...

Fuel hatred between Zero and Big Boss by framing Cipher for an attack against Mother Base. This makes the actions of both of them predictable.

Poison Zero and hope that he has you sent to Africa to continue presumed dead-end research rather than have you killed.

Attack Big Boss, finding his location by following a fire dude who walks slowly, but also not preparing your men to avoid him...

Nah, I can't make sense of it.

you got the order wrong. skull face had to have been exiled to africa before he attacks zero, because otherwise he can't have the parasites to attack zero with
 
you got the order wrong. skull face had to have been exiled to africa before he attacks zero, because otherwise he can't have the parasites to attack zero with

But he had the parasites as a child. They saved him when he was burned, or some shit. I think.

Argh, Kojima!
 
Ok, so Skull Face's plan...

Fuel hatred between Zero and Big Boss by framing Cipher for an attack against Mother Base. This makes the actions of both of them predictable.

Poison Zero and hope that he has you sent to Africa to continue presumed dead-end research rather than have you killed.

Attack Big Boss, finding his location by following a fire dude who walks slowly, but also not preparing your men to avoid him...

Nah, I can't make sense of it.

My interpretation is that he finds the location of Big Boss because he knows that the pass phrase 'V Has Come to' means he has woken up and is now a threat, he learns this from tapping zeros phone.

I guess the implication is that he's monitoring the entire worlds communications network,
and it's the nurse using the landlines in the hospital in cyprus that tips him off where Big Boss is.

However, this is The metal gear Wiki's take on how SF found the hospitals location (no proof in game of course)


So at somepoint somehow (via ESP via Mantis?) Man on Fire knows where Big Boss is.

This is never explicitly stated in the game though
 
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