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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
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I think recent games like The Last of Us and Batman: Arkham Knight do a good job of presenting their protagonists as morally dubious; it's easy to leave those games not liking their respective main characters, and they didn't even have to go overboard to do it.
One or two instances of Big Boss doing something that earns him credibility as a demon, even if just in the eyes of others, would have been good. There's a psychological element with Mantis that was largely ignored; you could have a typical Skulls unit boss fight be revealed at some point to be Big Boss shooting at apparitions in his mind, and innocents in reality. And even if it isn't intentional that kind of blood on someone's hands can stain them for life.
el_colibri
Member
OrochiJR
Member
The impression I got was that Kojima had a more elaborate and poignant story in mind but was interrupted during the development process by Konami saying "dude, we gotta rush that shit out by September, hurry and wrap it it up!" after he was just done finishing Chapter 1 and a few cutscenes from Chapter 2, resulting in the lacking 2nd half of the game and the cutting of whatever else Kojima's original vision of the game may have contained like Mission 51 (and probably at least a Chapter 3 if he intended to properly bridge the time gap until MG1).
SuperAngelo64
Banned
So I prevented Quiet from dying with the Butterfly emblem.
Is it impossible for me to get Mission 46 now?
Is it impossible for me to get Mission 46 now?
Given how he was made to leave Konami and the whole struggle with Kojima Pro they wanted much earlier and he kept crushing deadlines for one reason or the other.
Posting for new page
Yeah, I find it a little annoying also. Not even so much that we didn't see Big Boss doing bad things, but that Kojima knew that's what people were waiting for, because that's what he teased in all of the trailers.
It's misdirection in a way that makes me feel nothing positive. I didn't even comprehend that the scene of Big Boss maybe shooting child soldiers was revealed to be him shooting a bucket until you mentioned it, but yeah, that's what he does. It's like ... why? Why give us nothing of that ilk and have it actually happen. The worst thing Big Boss does is torture a mass murderer by inflicting wounds equivalent to the wounds that mass murder had dealt out. That's only barely not heroic.
The story was just a miss. It's not well implemented into the game (instances that move the narrative forward are few and far between, and most occur in the second half of Chapter 1, and without any real structure or pacing in Chapter 2). It doesn't conclude well ('I guess you've been in Chapter 2 long enough ... here's the ending'). Elements of it are unfinished. It's a damn shame.
You can still unlock it. It unlocked for me and I haven't played the final quote mission yet
razzmahtazz
Member
I've stated earlier. ZOE 3, PT, Rising and Silent Hills. He probably was their last Golden Goose, and they were cutting him up to see if there was more gold in there.
el_colibri
Member
I think this too. Unfortunately we'll never get to see his vision realised.
The bucket thing was clever when I was playing through it but thinking about it, it was a cheap way of getting our attention in the trailers.
I feel Big Boss was very lukewarm in this game, but I hope that wasn't Kojima's intention.
I mean, the final scene in PW with NORAD had more emotion than a lot of the scenes in this game, sad to say.
I hope he had a lot more planned and by the files that were datamined, I think he did. If not, then the whole rushed Chapter 2 thing was just shoddy.
Outside of that, I don't know why they left out so many of Snake's lines. They were recorded, Kiefer was paid (a lot I assume) so why not use them?
Confusing as hell.
el_colibri
Member
Next summer/autumn IMO, which would've been fine by me.
SJRB
Gold Member
Considering the obscene amount of polish required for a game like this, having another full-size map would've pushed the release back at least another year.
And after 5 years and 80 million dollars I can't even totally blame Konami for pushing the red button, but it is unfortunate that we'll never get to see Kojima's complete vision for MGSV. I suppose as always his ambition greatly exceeds his grasp.
Even if Kojima had been given as long as he'd needed, it still would have left us with Mute Snake, which will never sit well with me.
We still would have gotten that arkward car ride with Skull Face. I still would have been staring at my monitor in frustration time and time again after yet another cutscene when our character did nothing. Some of the games problems can be notched down to being released before it was ready, some problems such as minimalist cutscenes, characters who don't really do anything interesting, lack of story arcs etc, are just narrative and script choices made a long time ago.
We still would have gotten that arkward car ride with Skull Face. I still would have been staring at my monitor in frustration time and time again after yet another cutscene when our character did nothing. Some of the games problems can be notched down to being released before it was ready, some problems such as minimalist cutscenes, characters who don't really do anything interesting, lack of story arcs etc, are just narrative and script choices made a long time ago.
el_colibri
Member
I totally get this. He was so close.
He finished MGS1, 2, 3, 4, PW with the same ambition/reality problems though
Yeah, that's mind boggling too. He had the lines recorded.....
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
BROTHERS
Even for only three chapters with about the same amount of cutscenes as Chapter 1, only one extra year would be very optimistic with the cost rising exponentially considering you would have to get actors back into the studio.
Punished_Snake
Member
I saw this scene in the trailer, but not in the game. I thought it was cut, when does that happen? I want to see it, youtube link please.
You trigger the scene by making your GMP go into the red and then return to the ACC - I think at that stage you're called back to MB.
el_colibri
Member
That's kinda my point too. It's a nice little extra but with the way the trailers showed it, it was as if it was a story point, as if Diamond Dogs were starting to get unruly.
I developed a theory that they were getting majorly pissed (maybe because of quiet, or mantis control, who knows) and tried to mutiny, with BB being forced to take them out. Later on he shoots some of his comrades point blank because of a failed mutiny attempt.
Cue the dramatic hallway scene with him collapsing on the floor.
Can you please explain to me (without saying LOL it's teh same bro) how:
Playing as Snake for 2 hours, then playing as Raiden for the rest of the game, seeing Snake as Pliskin, working with Snake, having Snake formulate a plan with you and Otacon, and having Snake and Otacon have the greatest handshake of all time, compares to
Having it revealed to you at the end of the game that you were a decoy/double for Big Boss to go and start Zanzibar Land, and then have the game end?
Hint: one has an entire plot and narrative built up around it with actual character and plot development. The other one "just happens". k go.
MGSV would've been good for a literal season pass. Just end the game with a bigger chapter 1 and tease the next chapter and sell it with the season 2 pass and add more seasons with main missions, side-ops and such and such over time. Actually the whole game could've been worked in one chapter 1 with the exception of truth of course. That would br enough content to justify 50/60 dollar and deliver more content via season pass.
Ghostmaster
Member
Posting for new page
I don't think that there's a problem with Kojima misleading us in trailers, I think that's great, hell it's a shame that the twist was way too telegraphed with all those trailers, and it's a shame that wasn't a misdirection too.
The problem with the game is that it was clearly stitched together to make the release date and thus the pacing and the structure is all off.
I'm still not sure why are people so adamant about seeing BB become some bad guy. To me it's obvious that with MGS 3 and MGS 4, Kojima was pretty much retconing MG 1 and 2 Big boss, and turning him from a villain into a misunderstood character.
Kind of like The Red Hood in the Batman series, a more extreme version of the hero that in his zeal occasionally does a bad thing.
Punished_Snake
Member
To tell you the truth, when I watched the trailer, I only thought he was training with the men and showing a fearless side to him, because he is Big Boss.
Edit: Similar to Ocelot's "pretty good" scene with motherbase soldiers. I have never imagined or thought about it like you.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Then you didn't look close enough. The other Soldiers clearly try to hold them back as if they want to stop their fight.
el_colibri
Member
Good point
Though with the trailers and marketing (BB soaked in blood with a tail and a huge horn sticking out of his head), it teases to us that BB is about to become a bad guy.
Maybe misunderstood, but he was definitely shown as evil in a lot of the marketing.
Of course, it was BB trying to de-escalate the situation in my eyes too.
I was just thinking of the soldiers fighting, and thinking it was because Diamond Dogs were getting out of control. For what reason I didn't know.
Punished_Snake
Member
No, it seems that you looked or imagined too much. In the trailer it also shows you Ocelot and the men training and shooting, then in the game you watch Ocelot give the soldiers an advice to forget about Hollywood and the way a true soldier should shoot with a pistol.
Venom scene is the same for me, from the trailer I have imagined that he is training with the men, nothing more and nothing less. He is like "This is how you should stab an enemy, and don't hesitate to try it on me because I'm Big Boss.", showing a fearless side to him.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
No, they're clearly trying to hold those guys and they free themselves.
https://youtu.be/2nZKDcA6dP4
2:27
onepiecefan
Member
Messypandas
Member
Are some levels capped until you upgrade your base? My R&D level has been stuck at 39 for ages. Manually sorting through the guys,saluting the boys nothing seems to push it over.
SJRB
Gold Member
The main takeaway from this is that a lot of people have made up their own version of what MGSV was supposed to be prior to launch. In retrospect the footage in the trailers are completely out of context, but create a certain story, and ironically enough every new trailer only enforces that story. A story that never existed.
Now that the game didn't deliver the story people themselves created in their own minds and came to expect, they consider the story garbage and Kojima a hack.
I too, of course, am guilty of this. I had high expectations because I too expected the story to go down a certain path based on the trailers I've seen. So the disappointment in MGSV's story is ultimately largely my own fault. Once you let go your own assumptions of what MGSV was supposed to be, you will notice that the disappointment will also go.
Now that the game didn't deliver the story people themselves created in their own minds and came to expect, they consider the story garbage and Kojima a hack.
I too, of course, am guilty of this. I had high expectations because I too expected the story to go down a certain path based on the trailers I've seen. So the disappointment in MGSV's story is ultimately largely my own fault. Once you let go your own assumptions of what MGSV was supposed to be, you will notice that the disappointment will also go.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
I think the easiest way to boil this game down is just by seeing that it has zero heart in it besides maybe a single moment and cassette or 2.
Same for the soundtrack, a few good tracks but feels completely separate and unrecognizable from every game before it.
It just feels so average and sterile.
Even outside direct story stuff I thought 4 had moments where the little things just really sold that game overall.
Same for the soundtrack, a few good tracks but feels completely separate and unrecognizable from every game before it.
It just feels so average and sterile.
Even outside direct story stuff I thought 4 had moments where the little things just really sold that game overall.
for example wasn't really needed and was such a minor thing but actually ended up being one of my favorite scenes.
BROTHERS
wait, is that your avatar? how do you unlock that?
Punished_Snake
Member
Ok, I understand what you mean. But this is how I have imagined it, as I didn't see the scene in the game I thought maybe they belong to different scenes, not the same one. but Eli's scene at 2:47 isn't in the game, right?
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Truth mission, then its selectable.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Yes, Eli's scene is in the game, after you beat him that cutscene triggers.
Plus a lot of GAF spoiled the game for themselves b4 it released. The spoiler thread had over a million views before 9/1. I was glad I stayed away from it. I also envy all those people who managed to be a a full blackout since 2012. They probably had the best experience out of anyone.
Punished_Snake
Member
After you beat him in the village (first encounter in the abandoned ship)? Why I don't remember this? Weird haha.
Once you let go of any expectations of the story it's harder to be disappointed in the story, sure.
If Just Cause 3 has a crap story I won't mind, because I'm not expecting anything. If The Last of Us 2 has badly written characters it would bother me, because I have an expectation.
There is an expectation of MGSV's story that was perpetuated by Kojima himself. Any disappointment in it is warranted. It isn't that the story is different to what people expected, or what it is "supposed to be", but that it is worse. It is mostly non-existent in the first half of Chapter 1. It is sporadic and messy throughout Chapter 2.
I would have loved to have been pleasantly surprised by Kojima and Co. tying up loose ends in a spectacular manner. I would have been a lot warmer to the twist if it was executed with any care, rather than delivered to the player like the end of a limp magic trick, and done so in a manner devoid of build-up or pacing.
The execution is to blame, not the expectation.
You probably didn't get it. if you don't beat him with CQC you don't get the scene.
Punished_Snake
Member
I did the important side op in motherbase, is that it?
Kenzodielocke
Banned
No, when you meet him first in the ship you fight him and I got this cutscene, beating him with CQC.
Punished_Snake
Member
Ok, I used tranquilizers to beat him.
I'm actually kind of glad that I got spoiled on this game early. It allowed me to temper my expectations a bit.
I don't entirely hate it like some others here either. There are parts I hate but there's also bits of classic mgs that I love. It's very mixed.
I really don't think the reason for the games problems are so cut and dry either. New engine, new open world challenges for the team...They were probably in over their heads a bit. Combined with over spending, internal fighting, and suits breathing down their necks, it's a miracle we even got what we did.
If anything, I'm just sad that the final Kojima Productions MGS has a story like this. I know they're capable of so much more but it is what is.
I'm still going to dump 150 hours into this when all is said and done. It's so good to play.
I don't entirely hate it like some others here either. There are parts I hate but there's also bits of classic mgs that I love. It's very mixed.
I really don't think the reason for the games problems are so cut and dry either. New engine, new open world challenges for the team...They were probably in over their heads a bit. Combined with over spending, internal fighting, and suits breathing down their necks, it's a miracle we even got what we did.
If anything, I'm just sad that the final Kojima Productions MGS has a story like this. I know they're capable of so much more but it is what is.
I'm still going to dump 150 hours into this when all is said and done. It's so good to play.
I just wanted to hop in since I finished the game... And god, I wanted SO HARD for it to not turn out that way.
Just do away with the twist, incorporate the chapter 2 stuff + Eli's cut content into chapter for one big story, with less filler mission and an epilogue going into MG1 ending territory and fucking voila. How could it be so difficult?
Sorry, you probably read this 10000 times for the past two weeks but I needed to vent. I am so fucking disappointed with this game, that I otherwise played with great enjoyment for 80 hours making the disappointment that much worse >_>
Just do away with the twist, incorporate the chapter 2 stuff + Eli's cut content into chapter for one big story, with less filler mission and an epilogue going into MG1 ending territory and fucking voila. How could it be so difficult?
Sorry, you probably read this 10000 times for the past two weeks but I needed to vent. I am so fucking disappointed with this game, that I otherwise played with great enjoyment for 80 hours making the disappointment that much worse >_>
Given the sort of structure MGSV had, they should really have not made it about the twist at all, and just focused on episodic character stories. The way they concluded the Quiet story was great, so if they did that for all the charcters (Eli, Code Talker, Ocelot, Miller) and if they didn't drop the ball with how shit the Huey storyline was, it would have been much better. End the game after everyone leaves, with a sense of "allies come and go, but Big Boss will always remain in Outer Heaven" and roll the credits.
Marty-esque
Member
Holy shit! Was that the P.T. newscast on the radio?
I absolutely agree with you on this.
I think just from my own gut feeling, the major difference is that after finishing MGS2 I felt confused and mixed up, sure, but I also felt like I had just played something really special that I just didn't fully understand yet. After finishing MGSV, I just fett like the game could have been so special but there are just too many missing pieces and pacing isues, and that in time it will only get worse as people learn what it could have been.
I don't know, I hate Huey, but that is intended. He felt like the only real character in this game. He was a dipshit who tried pushing responsiblity away from him were clumsily, but he felt real. Quiet's story was a bit weakened by the random fanservice teams. I would've rather seen some cute scences were she and Boss try to learn to communicate or have a nice cup of tea together.
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