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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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I have absolutely no problem with the ending twist. As I've said before, it has helped me accept the fact that Big Boss barely talks in this game. That's a good thing. I also can't really relate to the "You mean I wasn't playing as Big Boss? Just some random? My entire experience playing this game feels wasted!" sentiment at all.

The reason why I don't like the ending:

-Mission 51 is out there in incomplete form. The fact that we knew it was going to be a part of the game, but ultimately cut, SUCKS.

-The chapter 2 that we did get with the game SUCKS. A bunch of harder difficulty missions we already did? No real final boss battle? Fucking seriously?

-My mind was already made up that the game would end fighting Solid Snake as a re-imagining of the final boss battle of Metal Gear. So when that didn't happen, I was very sad ; _ ;

So, yeah. Very little to do with that twist. If we got the twist, then went to mission 51/chapter 3, and then went to chapter 4: Operation Intrude N313... GREATEST GAME OF ALL TIME
 
I think what bothers me more about the Quiet/Code Talker Navajo thing is the black ink spots around their eyes. What does it mean???????????????? I listened to every tape and I don't think that old bastard said shit about it since it didn't have to do with microbes banging

I'm sure it just has something to do with the ability to go invisible.
 
If we ever get the cut content in form of patch or DLC, it will salvage the story in every way for me. If plot holes are left, so what? Every story should have a beginning, middle and an end. Even Ground Zeroes provided that much.



Well, ultimately the gameplay carries the game. Whereas past MGS games were meant to be enjoyed for their stories first and gameplay later, this one is polar opposite of that.

Dude don't try and soften the blow like that. The past games had both of those things. At the time they were far and ahead of most games in the action genre. They defined that era of gaming.
 
Chapter 1 was basically a season of 24.

Chapter 2 was the day-to-day webisodes, waiting for the next season (and plot) to start.

The twist I know I've seen before at least once, including the flashback theme, but I won't mention any names as not to spoil.

I agree with people there wasn't as big a sense of urgency in the story missions. The game was like a mix of MGS + PMC sim, which I liked, but they could've tightened the pacing, and added a few more cut scenes for clarity. It felt like a spin-off in a lot of ways.
 
Dude don't try and soften the blow like that. The past games had both of those things. At the time they were far and ahead of most games in the action genre. They defined that era of gaming.

Yeah, you're right. MGS2 is my favorite game of all time. And its gameplay is perfect to me. But that first playthrough, I was just so hooked by the characters and the story - the gameplay made it fun to keep playing and replaying, but ultimately V doesn't have the one thing every other MGS does (for me, at least) - a moment to want to play for again. Rather, I just wanna run around aimlessly capturing animals.
 
I have absolutely no problem with the ending twist. As I've said before, it has helped me accept the fact that Big Boss barely talks in this game. That's a good thing. I also can't really relate to the "You mean I wasn't playing as Big Boss? Just some random? My entire experience playing this game feels wasted!" sentiment at all.

The reason why I don't like the ending:

-Mission 51 is out there in incomplete form. The fact that we knew it was going to be a part of the game, but ultimately cut, SUCKS.

-The chapter 2 that we did get with the game SUCKS. A bunch of harder difficulty missions we already did? No real final boss battle? Fucking seriously?

-My mind was already made up that the game would end fighting Solid Snake as a re-imagining of the final boss battle of Metal Gear. So when that didn't happen, I was very sad ; _ ;

So, yeah. Very little to do with that twist. If we got the twist, then went to mission 51/chapter 3, and then went to chapter 4: Operation Intrude N313... GREATEST GAME OF ALL TIME
Honestly, the way it *does* actually end on Operation Intrude N313 would probably be an even bigger slap in the face then :P
 
If you could make a perfect, grown up Big Boss clone by hypnotises and shit, why would you even need Les Enfants Terribles?

Kojima: Creating nonsense since 2008.
 
This video perfectly illustrates why MGSV is the game of the year despite contentions over the story and chapter 2 game design.

JV3Ostp.gif


MLG PRO 420 BLAZE IT
 
U3jmwje.png


So at the end of the game, you get a tape explaining that you are not Big Boss, but an exact duplicate created by Zero to protect the real Big Boss from his own organization. This scene is really really good, and I love Kiefer's mocap work when Venom Snake smirks and looks at himself in the mirror with this look of power.

But the last few seconds of this scene are extremely important! When he flips the tape over, there's a time jump to 1995. How do I know this? Be perceptive; in the reflection of the mirror, there is a Diamond Dogs emblem on the bathroom door.

However, when Venom flips the tape over, that emblem becomes an Outer Heaven logo, and outside you can hear gunfire and chaos. What's the other side of that tape labeled?

Operation N313 aka the operation Solid Snake goes on in Metal Gear 1.

...

HqFOv1O.png


It can be safely assumed that whatever is on that N313 tape, Venom doesn't like it. He reads the info and immediately destroys a mirror in rage; that does not sound to me like the reaction of a happy man in a healthy partnership. Given the info we have, it can be reasonably assumed that Big Boss and Venom communicate through those cassette tapes; it can also be reasonably assumed that towards the end of Metal Gear 1, Venom Snake becomes aware of the fact that Solid Snake is coming to kill him and tries to sabotage that operation. During the game, your CO is Big Boss. He's basically the Campbell of Metal Gear 1; he gives you hints and suggestions on what to do. But suddenly, towards the end of the game, Big Boss contacts you on a new frequency and begins giving you bogus advice to try and sabotage your mission.
Real Big Boss's frequency: 120.85
Venom Snake's frequency: 120.13

This second Big Boss on the new frequency is Venom Snake trying to stall Solid Snake's mission. Now, what we see in MG1 is that the entire time, Big Boss is helpful in assisting Solid Snake in his mission to destroy Outer Heaven. We also know that Venom Snake contacts Solid and tries to stop the mission. If Big Boss didn't want Solid to kill Venom, he would have also worked to stop the mission, not assisted the whole time.

It isn't clear, and it will never be clear, what Big Boss's grand plan was for Operation Intrude N313.

5MbM2XM.png


As it stands in canon now, he expected Solid Snake to fail. Given the new information about Venom Snake, his motivations become even more nebulous. Killing Solid Snake is obviously in Big Boss's favor, but so would killing Venom Snake. Why? Venom Snake is one of the few individuals who knows of Big Boss's double and if he is capture alive would likely raise many uncomfortable questions for Big Boss in regards to his position within FOXHOUND.

The Outer Heaven uprising is intended to be a rebellion against the Patriots, but at some point it may have become obvious that it was going to fail. Venom Snake doesn't get the N313 tape until Snake has spent some time on his mission (you can hear him fighting outside the room Venom is in). At this point, it wouldn't be unreasonable for Big Boss to assume that the uprising was a failure, and that ultimately, the Patriots would destroy Outer Heaven. If Venom was captured, it is possible they could discover Big Boss's involvement in its founding.

vR97fgA.jpg


So what about the damn MSX tape?

I think the tape contains Venom Snake's final mission: to die for the Big Boss legend. If Venom gives his life and takes responsibility for the uprising, Big Boss will be able to remain undercover and unharmed, ultimately allowing Venom to complete his mission as a lightning rod for Big Boss.

In the end, Venom gets the same mission that the US handed down to the Boss in MGS3: he is to die for his cause and will go down in history as a war criminal. No one will know who he was, no one will know what he sacrificed. His life, his face, his ideology, everything was to be taken by Big Boss and his legend. Big Boss does literally the same thing that the Philosophers/the US did to the Boss, the very thing he swore to stop so many years before.

Venom gets angry and rejects this mission; he punches the mirror and contacts Solid to try and stop the inevitable. In the end, Venom does what the Boss doesn't: he rejects his mission and implicates Big Boss in the whole thing. He tells Solid that he is Big Boss, causing Solid and everyone else to think that Big Boss had double crossed them and was simultaneously the leader of Outer Heaven and the CO of FOXHOUND, thus blowing Big Boss's cover. Solid kills Venom Snake, and Big Boss goes into hiding to build Zanzibar Land. And well, the rest is history.
 
I have absolutely no problem with the ending twist. As I've said before, it has helped me accept the fact that Big Boss barely talks in this game. That's a good thing. I also can't really relate to the "You mean I wasn't playing as Big Boss? Just some random? My entire experience playing this game feels wasted!" sentiment at all.

The reason why I don't like the ending:

-Mission 51 is out there in incomplete form. The fact that we knew it was going to be a part of the game, but ultimately cut, SUCKS.

-The chapter 2 that we did get with the game SUCKS. A bunch of harder difficulty missions we already did? No real final boss battle? Fucking seriously?

-My mind was already made up that the game would end fighting Solid Snake as a re-imagining of the final boss battle of Metal Gear. So when that didn't happen, I was very sad ; _ ;

So, yeah. Very little to do with that twist. If we got the twist, then went to mission 51/chapter 3, and then went to chapter 4: Operation Intrude N313... GREATEST GAME OF ALL TIME

Yeah... Everything up to that point I was onboard with no matter how good or bad it was. The fact that it just ended with no closure on "Eli and the children" ruining away with Metal Gear and Big Boss off on his own and eventually forming Foxhound with Frank Yaeger. Not even a mention of Solidus and how he somehow came into being.

But not seeing a young David hit hard the most, especially with how hard the marketing has been with tying up the legacy.
 
That's just how their parasites look when active I think. "Those who cover" are a parasite strain which covers their skin and replaces their internal organs or whatever, so they don't need to eat, etc, and they have special powers depending on the strains. It's how Quiet does her cloaking. Who knows what powers Code Talker has. Hamburger powers maybe.
I think it's in the guide book that those black spots are parasites reacting to the feelings of the human, not in necessary relation with using their powers. And Code Talker got eyesight, photo synthesis and regeneration out of it since he literally got his parasites from the splattered corpes of The End. He also has SOME powers in the tape where he fights Skullface. Not explained why and what those powers are though.
 
U3jmwje.png


So at the end of the game, you get a tape explaining that you are not Big Boss, but an exact duplicate created by Zero to protect the real Big Boss from his own organization. This scene is really really good, and I love Kiefer's mocap work when Venom Snake smirks and looks at himself in the mirror with this look of power.

But the last few seconds of this scene are extremely important! When he flips the tape over, there's a time jump to 1995. How do I know this? Be perceptive; in the reflection of the mirror, there is a Diamond Dogs emblem on the bathroom door.

However, when Venom flips the tape over, that emblem becomes an Outer Heaven logo, and outside you can hear gunfire and chaos. What's the other side of that tape labeled?

Operation N313 aka the operation Solid Snake goes on in Metal Gear 1.

...

HqFOv1O.png


It can be safely assumed that whatever is on that N313 tape, Venom doesn't like it. He reads the info and immediately destroys a mirror in rage; that does not sound to me like the reaction of a happy man in a healthy partnership. Given the info we have, it can be reasonably assumed that Big Boss and Venom communicate through those cassette tapes; it can also be reasonably assumed that towards the end of Metal Gear 1, Venom Snake becomes aware of the fact that Solid Snake is coming to kill him and tries to sabotage that operation. During the game, your CO is Big Boss. He's basically the Campbell of Metal Gear 1; he gives you hints and suggestions on what to do. But suddenly, towards the end of the game, Big Boss contacts you on a new frequency and begins giving you bogus advice to try and sabotage your mission.
Real Big Boss's frequency: 120.85
Venom Snake's frequency: 120.13

This second Big Boss on the new frequency is Venom Snake trying to stall Solid Snake's mission. Now, what we see in MG1 is that the entire time, Big Boss is helpful in assisting Solid Snake in his mission to destroy Outer Heaven. We also know that Venom Snake contacts Solid and tries to stop the mission. If Big Boss didn't want Solid to kill Venom, he would have also worked to stop the mission, not assisted the whole time.

It isn't clear, and it will never be clear, what Big Boss's grand plan was for Operation Intrude N313.

5MbM2XM.png


As it stands in canon now, he expected Solid Snake to fail. Given the new information about Venom Snake, his motivations become even more nebulous. Killing Solid Snake is obviously in Big Boss's favor, but so would killing Venom Snake. Why? Venom Snake is one of the few individuals who knows of Big Boss's double and if he is capture alive would likely raise many uncomfortable questions for Big Boss in regards to his position within FOXHOUND.

The Outer Heaven uprising is intended to be a rebellion against the Patriots, but at some point it may have become obvious that it was going to fail. Venom Snake doesn't get the N313 tape until Snake has spent some time on his mission (you can hear him fighting outside the room Venom is in). At this point, it wouldn't be unreasonable for Big Boss to assume that the uprising was a failure, and that ultimately, the Patriots would destroy Outer Heaven. If Venom was captured, it is possible they could discover Big Boss's involvement in its founding.

vR97fgA.jpg


So what about the damn MSX tape?

I think the tape contains Venom Snake's final mission: to die for the Big Boss legend. If Venom gives his life and takes responsibility for the uprising, Big Boss will be able to remain undercover and unharmed, ultimately allowing Venom to complete his mission as a lightning rod for Big Boss.

In the end, Venom gets the same mission that the US handed down to the Boss in MGS3: he is to die for his cause and will go down in history as a war criminal. No one will know who he was, no one will know what he sacrificed. His life, his face, his ideology, everything was to be taken by Big Boss and his legend. Big Boss does literally the same thing that the Philosophers/the US did to the Boss, the very thing he swore to stop so many years before.

Venom gets angry and rejects this mission; he punches the mirror and contacts Solid to try and stop the inevitable. In the end, Venom does what the Boss doesn't: he rejects his mission and implicates Big Boss in the whole thing. He tells Solid that he is Big Boss, causing Solid and everyone else to think that Big Boss had double crossed them and was simultaneously the leader of Outer Heaven and the CO of FOXHOUND, thus blowing Big Boss's cover. Solid kills Venom Snake, and Big Boss goes into hiding to build Zanzibar Land. And well, the rest is history.

Eh, the mirror punch is really all we have to go by, but despite that everything else in the games ending seems to imply that Venom was totally on board with following BB's orders. To me, that smirk he gives the camera as he's hearing BB's plan sums up his feelings. I'd like to think that him punching the mirror was him just getting frustrated that he was about to lose to SS.
 
U3jmwje.png


So at the end of the game, you get a tape explaining that you are not Big Boss, but an exact duplicate created by Zero to protect the real Big Boss from his own organization. This scene is really really good, and I love Kiefer's mocap work when Venom Snake smirks and looks at himself in the mirror with this look of power.

But the last few seconds of this scene are extremely important! When he flips the tape over, there's a time jump to 1995. How do I know this? Be perceptive; in the reflection of the mirror, there is a Diamond Dogs emblem on the bathroom door.

However, when Venom flips the tape over, that emblem becomes an Outer Heaven logo, and outside you can hear gunfire and chaos. What's the other side of that tape labeled?

Operation N313 aka the operation Solid Snake goes on in Metal Gear 1.

...

HqFOv1O.png


It can be safely assumed that whatever is on that N313 tape, Venom doesn't like it. He reads the info and immediately destroys a mirror in rage; that does not sound to me like the reaction of a happy man in a healthy partnership. Given the info we have, it can be reasonably assumed that Big Boss and Venom communicate through those cassette tapes; it can also be reasonably assumed that towards the end of Metal Gear 1, Venom Snake becomes aware of the fact that Solid Snake is coming to kill him and tries to sabotage that operation. During the game, your CO is Big Boss. He's basically the Campbell of Metal Gear 1; he gives you hints and suggestions on what to do. But suddenly, towards the end of the game, Big Boss contacts you on a new frequency and begins giving you bogus advice to try and sabotage your mission.
Real Big Boss's frequency: 120.85
Venom Snake's frequency: 120.13

This second Big Boss on the new frequency is Venom Snake trying to stall Solid Snake's mission. Now, what we see in MG1 is that the entire time, Big Boss is helpful in assisting Solid Snake in his mission to destroy Outer Heaven. We also know that Venom Snake contacts Solid and tries to stop the mission. If Big Boss didn't want Solid to kill Venom, he would have also worked to stop the mission, not assisted the whole time.

It isn't clear, and it will never be clear, what Big Boss's grand plan was for Operation Intrude N313.

5MbM2XM.png


As it stands in canon now, he expected Solid Snake to fail. Given the new information about Venom Snake, his motivations become even more nebulous. Killing Solid Snake is obviously in Big Boss's favor, but so would killing Venom Snake. Why? Venom Snake is one of the few individuals who knows of Big Boss's double and if he is capture alive would likely raise many uncomfortable questions for Big Boss in regards to his position within FOXHOUND.

The Outer Heaven uprising is intended to be a rebellion against the Patriots, but at some point it may have become obvious that it was going to fail. Venom Snake doesn't get the N313 tape until Snake has spent some time on his mission (you can hear him fighting outside the room Venom is in). At this point, it wouldn't be unreasonable for Big Boss to assume that the uprising was a failure, and that ultimately, the Patriots would destroy Outer Heaven. If Venom was captured, it is possible they could discover Big Boss's involvement in its founding.

vR97fgA.jpg


So what about the damn MSX tape?

I think the tape contains Venom Snake's final mission: to die for the Big Boss legend. If Venom gives his life and takes responsibility for the uprising, Big Boss will be able to remain undercover and unharmed, ultimately allowing Venom to complete his mission as a lightning rod for Big Boss.

In the end, Venom gets the same mission that the US handed down to the Boss in MGS3: he is to die for his cause and will go down in history as a war criminal. No one will know who he was, no one will know what he sacrificed. His life, his face, his ideology, everything was to be taken by Big Boss and his legend. Big Boss does literally the same thing that the Philosophers/the US did to the Boss, the very thing he swore to stop so many years before.

Venom gets angry and rejects this mission; he punches the mirror and contacts Solid to try and stop the inevitable. In the end, Venom does what the Boss doesn't: he rejects his mission and implicates Big Boss in the whole thing. He tells Solid that he is Big Boss, causing Solid and everyone else to think that Big Boss had double crossed them and was simultaneously the leader of Outer Heaven and the CO of FOXHOUND, thus blowing Big Boss's cover. Solid kills Venom Snake, and Big Boss goes into hiding to build Zanzibar Land. And well, the rest is history.

bro that's not a theory. That's the literal meaning of that entire ending lmao. Why else would they show N313? We knew already the BB was head of FOXHOUND. N313 was a plan to take care of the pesky FOXHOUND unit all in one hit but Venom Snake is a scrub, can't do it, then goes rogue, against BB will. He gets owned anyway because SS is too good.
 
bro that's not a theory. That's the literal meaning of that entire ending lmao. Why else would they show N313? We knew already the BB was head of FOXHOUND. N313 was a plan to take care of the pesky FOXHOUND unit all in one hit but Venom Snake is a scrub, can't do it, then goes rogue, against BB will. He gets owned anyway because SS is too good.

I didn't write it


Saw it on /v/, not Giant Bomb. Had no idea about that.
 
If we ever get the cut content in form of patch or DLC, it will salvage the story in every way for me. If plot holes are left, so what? Every story should have a beginning, middle and an end. Even Ground Zeroes provided that much.
Chapter 51 barely provides a conclusion to Liquid's story, but not to the overall story at large and its failed transition to Metal Gear and the MGS 1/2/4 trilogy.
 
Yeah, you're right. MGS2 is my favorite game of all time. And its gameplay is perfect to me. But that first playthrough, I was just so hooked by the characters and the story - the gameplay made it fun to keep playing and replaying, but ultimately V doesn't have the one thing every other MGS does (for me, at least) - a moment to want to play for again. Rather, I just wanna run around aimlessly capturing animals.

Yep. I'll be surprised with myself if I return for more than an hour or two of gameplay.

There really aren't any "moments" - everything feels very homogenous. Fun, but homogenous.
 
JUST ANOTHER DAY IN A WAR WITHOUT END

OUTER HEAVEN

Bringing this up also reminds me.

Does the opening scene with Snake playing the cassette take place in Outer Heaven? Because at the end of the game it makes it look like Venom was still apart of Diamond Dogs when he was playing the tape. How does that even work?
 
U3jmwje.png


So at the end of the game, you get a tape explaining that you are not Big Boss, but an exact duplicate created by Zero to protect the real Big Boss from his own organization. This scene is really really good, and I love Kiefer's mocap work when Venom Snake smirks and looks at himself in the mirror with this look of power.

But the last few seconds of this scene are extremely important! When he flips the tape over, there's a time jump to 1995. How do I know this? Be perceptive; in the reflection of the mirror, there is a Diamond Dogs emblem on the bathroom door.

However, when Venom flips the tape over, that emblem becomes an Outer Heaven logo, and outside you can hear gunfire and chaos. What's the other side of that tape labeled?

Operation N313 aka the operation Solid Snake goes on in Metal Gear 1.

...

HqFOv1O.png


It can be safely assumed that whatever is on that N313 tape, Venom doesn't like it. He reads the info and immediately destroys a mirror in rage; that does not sound to me like the reaction of a happy man in a healthy partnership. Given the info we have, it can be reasonably assumed that Big Boss and Venom communicate through those cassette tapes; it can also be reasonably assumed that towards the end of Metal Gear 1, Venom Snake becomes aware of the fact that Solid Snake is coming to kill him and tries to sabotage that operation. During the game, your CO is Big Boss. He's basically the Campbell of Metal Gear 1; he gives you hints and suggestions on what to do. But suddenly, towards the end of the game, Big Boss contacts you on a new frequency and begins giving you bogus advice to try and sabotage your mission.
Real Big Boss's frequency: 120.85
Venom Snake's frequency: 120.13

This second Big Boss on the new frequency is Venom Snake trying to stall Solid Snake's mission. Now, what we see in MG1 is that the entire time, Big Boss is helpful in assisting Solid Snake in his mission to destroy Outer Heaven. We also know that Venom Snake contacts Solid and tries to stop the mission. If Big Boss didn't want Solid to kill Venom, he would have also worked to stop the mission, not assisted the whole time.

It isn't clear, and it will never be clear, what Big Boss's grand plan was for Operation Intrude N313.

5MbM2XM.png


As it stands in canon now, he expected Solid Snake to fail. Given the new information about Venom Snake, his motivations become even more nebulous. Killing Solid Snake is obviously in Big Boss's favor, but so would killing Venom Snake. Why? Venom Snake is one of the few individuals who knows of Big Boss's double and if he is capture alive would likely raise many uncomfortable questions for Big Boss in regards to his position within FOXHOUND.

The Outer Heaven uprising is intended to be a rebellion against the Patriots, but at some point it may have become obvious that it was going to fail. Venom Snake doesn't get the N313 tape until Snake has spent some time on his mission (you can hear him fighting outside the room Venom is in). At this point, it wouldn't be unreasonable for Big Boss to assume that the uprising was a failure, and that ultimately, the Patriots would destroy Outer Heaven. If Venom was captured, it is possible they could discover Big Boss's involvement in its founding.

vR97fgA.jpg


So what about the damn MSX tape?

I think the tape contains Venom Snake's final mission: to die for the Big Boss legend. If Venom gives his life and takes responsibility for the uprising, Big Boss will be able to remain undercover and unharmed, ultimately allowing Venom to complete his mission as a lightning rod for Big Boss.

In the end, Venom gets the same mission that the US handed down to the Boss in MGS3: he is to die for his cause and will go down in history as a war criminal. No one will know who he was, no one will know what he sacrificed. His life, his face, his ideology, everything was to be taken by Big Boss and his legend. Big Boss does literally the same thing that the Philosophers/the US did to the Boss, the very thing he swore to stop so many years before.

Venom gets angry and rejects this mission; he punches the mirror and contacts Solid to try and stop the inevitable. In the end, Venom does what the Boss doesn't: he rejects his mission and implicates Big Boss in the whole thing. He tells Solid that he is Big Boss, causing Solid and everyone else to think that Big Boss had double crossed them and was simultaneously the leader of Outer Heaven and the CO of FOXHOUND, thus blowing Big Boss's cover. Solid kills Venom Snake, and Big Boss goes into hiding to build Zanzibar Land. And well, the rest is history.

You lost me with V blowing BB's cover by saying he is BB. How does that blow BB's cover when SS believes he killed BB (but really V) allowed BB go to into hiding and create Zanzibar unimpeded
 
Bringing this up also reminds me.

Does the opening scene with Snake playing the cassette take place in Outer Heaven? Because at the end of the game it makes it look like Venom was still apart of Diamond Dogs when he was playing the tape. How does that even work?

The change in logo is supposed to be symbolic. I'm pretty sure when he is listening to that tape it's on the battlefield, in their based (bullets and operating equipment around the mirror, gunfire). It doesn't make sense for BB to give that tape to Venom 10 years prior in 1984.
 
That's one reason why I love how her story ended. It's a rare form of subtlety from Kojima. We know that she is making a great sacrifice in the end simply by speaking, and that at best she activates the parasites and it means she can never be close to any person ever again from fear of the infection spreading to them, and at worse she herself dies from it. We will never know for sure what her fate is, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

She probably died before giving birth to Sniper Wolf, let's be honest.
 
Quick question - does changing the muzzle on your assault rifle actually change how the muzzle flash looks?

I want the six-way one from the movie "Predator"!

PredatorSP1-13.jpg
 
this is my favorite part of that theory

KOJIMA HAD THIS PLANNED THE WHOLE TIME PEOPLE


I believe it :)

Yeah that's huge.
Cant believe I didn't notice before.

:p

Kojima definitely didn't plan all of this.

The first frequency is Big Boss guiding Solid Snake from the US, at the FOXHOUND headquarters.

Once Solid Snake begins making progress, Big Boss travels to Outer Heaven to deal with the threat, and this is why he changes frequencies.
 
U3jmwje.png


So at the end of the game, you get a tape explaining that you are not Big Boss, but an exact duplicate created by Zero to protect the real Big Boss from his own organization. This scene is really really good, and I love Kiefer's mocap work when Venom Snake smirks and looks at himself in the mirror with this look of power.

But the last few seconds of this scene are extremely important! When he flips the tape over, there's a time jump to 1995. How do I know this? Be perceptive; in the reflection of the mirror, there is a Diamond Dogs emblem on the bathroom door.

However, when Venom flips the tape over, that emblem becomes an Outer Heaven logo, and outside you can hear gunfire and chaos. What's the other side of that tape labeled?

Operation N313 aka the operation Solid Snake goes on in Metal Gear 1.

...

HqFOv1O.png


It can be safely assumed that whatever is on that N313 tape, Venom doesn't like it. He reads the info and immediately destroys a mirror in rage; that does not sound to me like the reaction of a happy man in a healthy partnership. Given the info we have, it can be reasonably assumed that Big Boss and Venom communicate through those cassette tapes; it can also be reasonably assumed that towards the end of Metal Gear 1, Venom Snake becomes aware of the fact that Solid Snake is coming to kill him and tries to sabotage that operation. During the game, your CO is Big Boss. He's basically the Campbell of Metal Gear 1; he gives you hints and suggestions on what to do. But suddenly, towards the end of the game, Big Boss contacts you on a new frequency and begins giving you bogus advice to try and sabotage your mission.
Real Big Boss's frequency: 120.85
Venom Snake's frequency: 120.13

This second Big Boss on the new frequency is Venom Snake trying to stall Solid Snake's mission. Now, what we see in MG1 is that the entire time, Big Boss is helpful in assisting Solid Snake in his mission to destroy Outer Heaven. We also know that Venom Snake contacts Solid and tries to stop the mission. If Big Boss didn't want Solid to kill Venom, he would have also worked to stop the mission, not assisted the whole time.

It isn't clear, and it will never be clear, what Big Boss's grand plan was for Operation Intrude N313.

5MbM2XM.png


As it stands in canon now, he expected Solid Snake to fail. Given the new information about Venom Snake, his motivations become even more nebulous. Killing Solid Snake is obviously in Big Boss's favor, but so would killing Venom Snake. Why? Venom Snake is one of the few individuals who knows of Big Boss's double and if he is capture alive would likely raise many uncomfortable questions for Big Boss in regards to his position within FOXHOUND.

The Outer Heaven uprising is intended to be a rebellion against the Patriots, but at some point it may have become obvious that it was going to fail. Venom Snake doesn't get the N313 tape until Snake has spent some time on his mission (you can hear him fighting outside the room Venom is in). At this point, it wouldn't be unreasonable for Big Boss to assume that the uprising was a failure, and that ultimately, the Patriots would destroy Outer Heaven. If Venom was captured, it is possible they could discover Big Boss's involvement in its founding.

vR97fgA.jpg


So what about the damn MSX tape?

I think the tape contains Venom Snake's final mission: to die for the Big Boss legend. If Venom gives his life and takes responsibility for the uprising, Big Boss will be able to remain undercover and unharmed, ultimately allowing Venom to complete his mission as a lightning rod for Big Boss.

In the end, Venom gets the same mission that the US handed down to the Boss in MGS3: he is to die for his cause and will go down in history as a war criminal. No one will know who he was, no one will know what he sacrificed. His life, his face, his ideology, everything was to be taken by Big Boss and his legend. Big Boss does literally the same thing that the Philosophers/the US did to the Boss, the very thing he swore to stop so many years before.

Venom gets angry and rejects this mission; he punches the mirror and contacts Solid to try and stop the inevitable. In the end, Venom does what the Boss doesn't: he rejects his mission and implicates Big Boss in the whole thing. He tells Solid that he is Big Boss, causing Solid and everyone else to think that Big Boss had double crossed them and was simultaneously the leader of Outer Heaven and the CO of FOXHOUND, thus blowing Big Boss's cover. Solid kills Venom Snake, and Big Boss goes into hiding to build Zanzibar Land. And well, the rest is history.

Yep I agree with this view. Good summary.
 
Kojima definitely didn't plan all of this.

The first frequency is Big Boss guiding Solid Snake from the US, at the FOXHOUND headquarters.

Once Solid Snake begins making progress, Big Boss travels to Outer Heaven to deal with the threat, and this is why he changes frequencies.
Do... radio frenquenciea work that way? They're not telephone numbers, right?
 
Do... radio frenquenciea work that way? They're not telephone numbers, right?

No, but remember how in MGS they distinguish between "burst transmission" (From people who are far from the Shadow Moses base) and normal transmission, for the people who are around.
 
Kojima definitely didn't plan all of this.

The first frequency is Big Boss guiding Solid Snake from the US, at the FOXHOUND headquarters.

Once Solid Snake begins making progress, Big Boss travels to Outer Heaven to deal with the threat, and this is why he changes frequencies.

NUH UH

.13 IS VENOM
 
Kojima definitely didn't plan all of this.

The first frequency is Big Boss guiding Solid Snake from the US, at the FOXHOUND headquarters.

Once Solid Snake begins making progress, Big Boss travels to Outer Heaven to deal with the threat, and this is why he changes frequencies.

No, but remember how in MGS they distinguish between "burst transmission" (From people who are far from the Shadow Moses base) and normal transmission, for the people who are around.

All things considered, it'd be easy as hell to retcon that much.
 
So, I just finished mission 46. Was that the true ending?

The ending was a twist that you weren't playing as Big Boss?

I have no words.

Is that it? No more story missions left?
 
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