You know, why didn't they go with Hayter as Big Boss? It wouldn't have spoiled the twist and would have made more sense than them sounding the same. They could've kept Kiefer as BB in GZ too and explain it as Venom's memory of the incident. Hell, if anything, having Kiefer voice both in GZ but Hayter voice one in TPP would've made the twist slightly less obvious.
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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
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You know, why didn't they go with Hayter as Big Boss? It wouldn't have spoiled the twist and would have made more sense than them sounding the same. They could've kept Kiefer as BB in GZ too and explain it as Venom's memory of the incident. Hell, if anything, having Kiefer voice both in GZ but Hayter voice one in TPP would've made the twist slightly less obvious.
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
When you catch a Blandford's Fox, Ocelots tells you how they only have one mate for life, a says something like "I can't see the appeal myself".
Not an admission of homosexuality, but at least of being a damn dirty dog.
WrenchNinja
Member
Yeah, I never got the claims of people saying how the man didn't live up to the legend
Like did you not play mgs3 or peacewalker?
Hahaha, but I'm more of the BBxQuiet ship, bro. The game does plenty for them, too (rain scene).
lol And he's named after a cat.
I've always seen him as a bisexual kinda guy, I dunno.
Ocelot's face-turn can fuck off too! This is a guy who relished in delight at being able to torture an injured women to death for helping a man he himself is later revealed to have been "helping" all along but couldn't stop trying to kill because lol hypnosis. He's a cold-blooded and double-crossing bastard which MGS3 gave a semi-tragic past to. He should've stayed that way.
Glass Rebel
Member
Funnily enough, having the twist spoiled (not that it wasn't very obvious) makes me appreciate some of the little things in the game more. Like the Paz scenes, how Ocelot got the name Shalashaska and how it mirrors the legend of Big Boss and his comment on why BB can't speak Russian anymore. It isn't much but hey.
He's more of a bitter ex in V. Everything was downhill after the Love Box.
Even Volgin can see it.
Then there's the way he kept the bullet as a necklace, the kiss in MGS4, the retcon that he devoted his entire life to Big Boss - Kojima referred to their relationship as a "pure love" in the MGS3 commentary (to be specific "Snake and Ocelot, from the first moment they set eyes upon each other, they both fell into liking with each other. It is a pure love."), but I wouldn't be surprised if Ocelot's side of it wasn't platonic.
Serious question: how did people not realize Ishmael with Big Boss? Or at the very least strongly, strongly suspect it? Its fairly obvious.
Most were hoping for a good story.
Dick Justice
Banned
He's gay, bro. But then again, everyone's gay for Big Boss.
Every single thing in the Metal Gear universe revolving around Big Boss and/or his ideals was a bad move, I think.
akidnamededdy
Banned
I thought it was more of a Fight Club type thing, a projection of himself.
And the Medic having the same voice in GZ, a lot of people thought they were just having Kiefer also do two or three lines for a nobody character instead of hiring someone else.
Also this. This twist is fucking stupid and the execution makes it even worse.
MGS3 was all that was needed. It was absolutely perfect in explaining how he went down the road of warlord while simultaneously operating as commander of a clandestine special operations unit that succeeded his own former unit. No plot holes or retcons necessary. Just good, clean narrative.
Dick Justice
Banned
Shit, Eva was so attached to Big Boss that she pretended to be distraught over the corpse of Solidus being burned up and let herself get charred alongside it (one of the dumbest scenes in MGS4 in hindsight).
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Ocelot and Snake's relationship is similar to that of Hannibal Lecter and Will Graham in Hannibal.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Really? I thought Eva didn't know Big Boss wasn't in that bodybag.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
First MGSV turns out to be a disappointment for me and then Persona 5 receives a huge delay. Fuck my life.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Ugh, what a dick.
Not only is Solidus missing the wrong eye, but Eva is the one who ripped his body apart to reconstruct Big Boss' body. She knew it was Solidus. It's one of the worst scenes ever. It's not even really that dramatic at the time, just stupid. Who the fuck walks into fire for a skinless torso and head?
akidnamededdy
Banned
She can't do self hypnosis like Ocelot, she's gotta step her game up somehow!
RyanardoDaVinci
Member
She had to have known it was Solidus because of one reason: the wrong eye was missing.
Considering she was in the room when Big Boss lost his eye, I don't think she'd forget which one he lost.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Not only this but I'm pretty sure it's explicitly stated later that Eva was in on the whole plan. I haven't played through MGS4 in its entirety since launch (let alone the awful ch 3) but I got this impression at the time and it stuck with me.
Yeah I thought/hoped this both release, but playing the prologue made it pretty clear.
Christ, completely forgot she actually is supposed to know that isn't BB's body.
Why haven't anyone roasted Kojima regarding shit like this yet, I want a real answer to this!
Yup, this is true. Eva is the one who took the corpses of Liquid and Solidus and hacked them to bits as a means for spare parts for Big Boss.
One would think his body would look like a complete fucking disaster during the end scene of MGS4, but considering the magic used on Venom Snake in reshaping his very skeleton and even his voice, skin color, hair color and even where his facial hair grows and at just the exact level of thickness... I wouldn't be surprised if his body looked like it was in peak condition with no scars or signs that he was stitched together from two people of two completely different ages--- and one that was no doubt bloated as fuck from being left in the water (Liquid get it lol) for quite a while.
I don't think anyone has ever criticized Kojima to his face. Which is a shame because he's in dire need of it.
Graphics Horse
Member
Nanomachypnosis and wolbachia.
The Liquid's body plotline is just awful anyway, he must get exhumed 3 times and eventually his long dead body is used as spare parts? Somehow?
WrenchNinja
Member
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
At one point in the story, I realized PARASITES and WOLBACHIA was pretty much NANOMACHINES.
Oh, can't forget METALLIC ARCHEA either.
Mr. Smiley
Member
Graphics Horse
Member
I wish I had a parasite that could make me teleport
I always thought they were going the Jurassic Park route, with the parasites evolving on their their own to counter the Wolbachia. Like frog DNA.
Are the multiple saves in the game? I want to start over, but doing a mostly lethal playthrough.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Oh my god how hilarious would it have been if Liquid suddenly possessed Big Boss during the ending. Or Solidus, or both of them alternating.
"I'm not here to fight you...*gurgley noise* BROTHERRRRRRR!"
Graphics Horse
Member
I live on, through this kidney!
I took 30 seconds to read this post for maximum authenticity.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
I wouldn't entirely complain about being put into the game, but it wouldn't fix the myriad of problems it has!
Yeah, it's too bad that no one is seemingly challenging the man creatively or anything under the development. A writer and an editor that could sort things out and make it more focused at least.
I must say I really liked Code Talker tho, a new and genuinely interesting character.
Skull face tho... I didn't have high hopes, but man, the guy just came and went without anything really happening or a final confrontation. Well except the fucking awful 15 MIN JEEP RIDE with Skullface just laying exposition on the player while Venom Boss just sits there not saying one word and then 5 min awkward silence with "Sins of the father" playing.
Calm down, buddy. I didn't say it was the point of the game, it's just the point of that scene.
Now do it again, six times at least.
Hellwarden
Member
I feel like the story could have flowed better if it did what MGS2 did early on. Reveal the twist early, and build off it.
Also, I'm a huge idiot. I spoiled shit. I Volgin in the other thread. Granted...
Come on, it's obviously Volgin. Who else carried ammo on themselves like that?
Still feel like shit.
FlutterPuffs
Member
To be honest MGSV wasn't a disappointment to me.
Expecting Kojima to make the story great is a foolish dream considering all the retcons he did starting from MGS3. It was bound to be... a mess.
Cutscenes were good, I loved the ending. Just you know, I won't go around trying to make sense of the retcons, or language based parasites.
Expecting Kojima to make the story great is a foolish dream considering all the retcons he did starting from MGS3. It was bound to be... a mess.
Cutscenes were good, I loved the ending. Just you know, I won't go around trying to make sense of the retcons, or language based parasites.
Kevin Shields
Member
I just spent 2 hours replaying mission 3 trying different crap. This game is so freaking good at these hitman type levels. Do you get ant big rewards for doing all the mission tasks? Anything like the raiden costume?
Edit: Nevermind, I thought you were a new player and directed you to the OT lol
Graphics Horse
Member
I'd like to criticise the parasite thing properly but it would require me listening to it all again.
Mission 3 or 33 can be S ranked without leaving the helicopter, probably not the most exciting way to play though.
Mission 3 or 33 can be S ranked without leaving the helicopter, probably not the most exciting way to play though.
potatohead
Member
The language-based parasites is the best part of the game though.....
The whole motivation for Skullface is against cultural imperialism.
Yep... you even get the stealth rank for it lol!
I did that S rank on my first try in Subsistence mode though. My greatest achievement in the game lol!
I used the claymore mines and shot them twice during a sandstorm, and used a rocket launcher I stole from an enemy from 125+ meters away to get the last radar dish.
Pwnt!
The whole motivation for Skullface is against cultural imperialism.
Yep... you even get the stealth rank for it lol!
I did that S rank on my first try in Subsistence mode though. My greatest achievement in the game lol!
I used the claymore mines and shot them twice during a sandstorm, and used a rocket launcher I stole from an enemy from 125+ meters away to get the last radar dish.
Pwnt!
FlutterPuffs
Member
I feel like the story could have flowed better if it did what MGS2 did early on. Reveal the twist early, and build off it.
Also, I'm a huge idiot. I spoiled shit. I Volgin in the other thread. Granted...
Come on, it's obviously Volgin. Who else carried ammo on him like that?
Still feel like shit.
In your defense, back when "The Phantom Pain" was announced as a "not metal gear" game at the 2012 VGAs, there was a whole big deal when people realized that the man on fire was Volgin and that this was actually Metal Gear trailer. Maybe people didn't know, maybe people had forgotten.. but we've had this spoiler since before MGSV was technically announced.
This is all so true and brilliantly articulated. As well as this, here are some of my not so greatly articulated criticisms.
What the fuck happened to proper boss fights? MGS1, 2, 3 and 4 and even Portable Ops had proper boss fights. This game as well as PW didn't bother. It had so much potential. How are so few critics pointing this out? Bizarre boss fights are a staple of the series.
Also, only 2 settings? We already saw a substantial amount of those settings in gameplay videos so it started to look stale pretty quickly.
Speaking of things we already saw, most of the games cutscenes were teased through trailers so it all felt really underwhelming when there was hardly anything new shown.
Also, random medic as Big Boss' body double? I do feel incredibly cheated, Kojima advertised we'd be seeing Big Boss' descent into madness, I expected to see him doing taboo shit without remorse. The reveal also came out of nowhere. It was all of a sudden. HERE. ENDING. TAKE. FIN. You want detail HERE AUDIO CLIP. I kept trying to complete repeat missions in an attempt to progress the story because I thought there were more chapters left. It was only after completing a few of them and googling I found there were only 50 missions. On that note, I felt that repeating missions on a greater difficulty was a cheap mechanic to extend the length of the game.
Also Kiefer's voice acting could have been the best in the world, it doesn't change the fact that the lack of Hayter made feel I wasn't playing as Snake. Also terrible script at times with the repeated mentioning words related to the theme. REVENGE. CIPHER. REVENGE. LANGUAGE. Also that tape with Kaz asking Ocelot what the point of it all is, and Ocelot just summarizing the future that the clones are fated to go against each other and they are just there to facilitate the conditions that will allow that... wtf, where did that even come from? How does that explain Kaz's question?
I expected to see the beginnings of popular characters from the series like Grey Fox, Sniper Wolf and Vulcan Raven make an appearance as they were said to have joined Big Boss. Would also have been nice to see Big Boss happily recruiting some of the nuts from Metal Gear. But it was all just forgotten it seems. Maybe it was not shown as as Venom Snake was not the Snake involved with these characters. In that case that's incredibly disappointing, I would have much rather had a story with the real Big Boss with those characters than this medic turned Big Boss character.
This was far from a true Metal Gear Solid title, what happened.
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