I hope they give her hazenshuu back.
Street Fighter V Roster Discussion: P-P-P-P-PATTERN BREAKER
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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I hope they give her hazenshuu back.
To me the issue is that it doesn't play to her strengths at all, and does nothing to cover up any weaknesses. Changing it to a special would still make it equally worthless.
If it was a special, at least then they could do something to vary it up by strength like lk has a faster start up or mk has projectile invincibility to counter the fireball game and hk does more damage.
Right now the only real reason to use it is off a jump in for a style combo or to gain some negligible amount of vmeter
Captainbob
Member
It kinda does tho, the idea is that her VSkill is a kind of short-jump to make up for her floaty standart jump.
Ever played blazblue? Think fatal counters.
SixMachine
Member
They can easily just make it so you can control the angle and speed if you add a direction when you press mk+mp, like how Birdie throws out different items with the directions. If the startup of Chun's v-skill was faster it can be so much better. If it is used as an approach it's pretty easy to see coming and she also takes a while to land. If it was like a kof hyper hop speed that would be pretty sick, since she has decent air normals.
The problem with it is it's equally floaty and doesn't really go over fireballs well, which is allegedly what it's supposed to do. The only thing I can think of it being good for is moving her forward while she keeps a charge for a fireball.
Honestly, if we're keeping the same concept, I'd like to see the jump change angles based on which direction you're holding. A higher angle jump that didn't go quite as far would help her with mixups when she gets close and would accomplish the task of getting her over fireballs.
Edit: And two people already said what I said before I posted it lol.
To do what exactly though? You don't really wanna be in their face, and even for that purpose it's still damn slow. It's kinda crappy to use to go over projectiles and she already has a c.mp to kinda deal with that anyways.
It does have a hitbox on the way up. f HK can also be used to blow up throw tech and is probably a better option in that scenario.
Yes, extremely punishable.
I mean, she also has her own fireball to counter fireballs too
It has some weird combo potential, but think you can only combo into it from a jumping HK or something. Also you can combo into her super from it at certain distances if you're in V-trigger mode. But nothing that makes it any better than any other combo option as far as I can see.
Shadoken
Member
I cant find the exact one with , since when i google it a bunch of them show up. But its basically this one. But almost all of them had the dislikes more than likes.
There was a lot of disappointment when Capcom was teasing Cammy of all character that needed a "reveal".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRCydPqK6uY
And yea I know Cammy is more popular , but how does that affect me? If I am not a fan of either character. I dont care about the tons of fans she has. Birdie,Mika,Karin and Nash are less popular but their Reveals were 10x more hype than Cammy ever was.
If you objectively look at both characters , Vega got a new design and drastic changes to his moveset and playstyle.
Now If Vega was just brought over like SF 4 Vega .
THEN I would say Vega was the most boring reveal ever.
And again , that popularity poll isn't the be all end all of anything. It changes a lot very frequently depending on the character revealed , based on the various polls already posted here.
I mean does it really matter if Bison has a few hundred votes over Vega? Or even Cammys thousands votes. Vega was in the original SF 2. That means Vega was in a game that sold close to 6 million copies more than all the games Cammy was in. ( And this isnt even counting arcade )
Vega is mainstream,very unique moveset, , fairly popular ( Though not as much as Cammy) and has enough changes to justify a good reveal trailer.
All Cammy has going for her is popular and fairly mainstream. She barely had any changes , so people who didn't really like her in previous games arent going to be excited for her reaveal.
Captainbob
Member
I never said the current version of the move was perfect, or even good, but the basic idea behind it makes sense, and is indeed supposed to cover up one of her weaknesses.
The point is/was obviously to give her an alternative way to perform jump attacks besides her floaty jump.
But yes the move needs more work.
Whiffeless parries were super broken; people complain all the time about single button grabs without whiffs, but those are nothing compared to sf3 parries.
A shame about the recovery even during a successful parry in sfv, but that does not make a sf3 like parry a good idea in v.
A shame about the recovery even during a successful parry in sfv, but that does not make a sf3 like parry a good idea in v.
They had some good ideas for it when the game was first released, but either Chun was too strong or they didn't worked at all.
I guess Chun game was to combo an opponent into the air and then continue the combo from there. In this scenario, you could use the v-skill as a follow up to certain attacks that could launch your opponent into the air.
Other idea was to be projectile invencible to punish spammers.
In the way it is now, the vskill is useless. It doesn't act as a good cross up or punish tool and it's too risky and low damage for the vtrigger gain to compensate. We risk getting a full punish combo if we miss it.
Yeah I'll be honest I cannot seem to adapt to Chun without it. I used it a LOT.
I think, in the first video, she had a special that was an aerial version of hazenshuu
How I would have loved to use that =(
I'm going to refrain from making too many judgments about Chun in the game at this point since it's so early, but to me she feels like a character that initially had too many great tools and they are figuring out how they want to adjust her. They may have found what they feel like the sweet spot is, but they changed her fireball from motion to charge because it was too strong and they changed her V-Trigger because it was too strong. Additionally, it looks like her BnBs have changed quite a bit as well since no one is really going for those aerial combos anymore like she was doing in the first reveals.
Stone Ocean
Member
Don't really see much of a point in Hazanshu for SFV Chun. She has her V-Skill to hop fireballs and still has Senenshu on top
To hop over fireballs with vskill you need to have a great reaction and be far away from it.
In this case, you cannot punish since the vskill is too slow.
The only situation I managed to punish was when I activated the vskill before the fireball animation even started.
I think you are overestimating the strength of the parry when looking at the whole character. From what I have played Ryu had arguably the shortest normals in the beta, except maybe Dictator but he has scissor kicks and st.mk. Not to forget, that about every character now has an anti-projectile move, which reduces the effectiveness of his fireball game. While he has an invincible reversal with mp DP, it is now counter hit on recovery making it even more risky.
Ryu SFV parry in a nutshell:
- Can only be done on the ground.
- Parries everything without having to specify direction.
- Has whiff animation and recovery on successful parry.
- Has no "red" parry or at least I haven't seen anyone confirm that it is available.
- Can only be cancelled into itself and not into other moves.
- Is counter hit on recovery, hence in danger of crush counter when mistiming.
- Is susceptible to throws.
- A parried jump in does not guarantee a punish due to recovery and possibly even negative when parrying a deep jump in attack.
- Due to recovery animation parrying quick attack like lights do not guarantee a punish.
- Currently no OS opportunities like 3s.
SFV parry is useful when you are outside of Ryus normals. The advantage over 3s parry is you can keep walking forward and react to attacks. But there is a thin line between reaction and reads when you are at your opponents range of normals and this is were the risk spikes due to counter hit state. Also according to WSO his V-Skill meter gain has been heavily reduced.
Considering his stubby normals and "weakened" moveset, the parry was probably given to him so he can actually get in to put on pressure. While it can look fancy and strong there is also the catch is that you have to take the risk and make reads.
Yes, it is rather read based than reaction due to the narrow angle of the v-skill. Do it too late and you just get shot down. Not to forget it has fixed range making it even harder to use.
OmegaSmash
Member
Maybe holding the stick in a specific direction to alter the jump angle? That or making it longer and give it an attack option at the end.
Well think first we should ask ourselves if she even needs an alternate jump.
Omnistalgic
Member
Game looks faster to me in the latest footage. Also, I think air blocking would be fun in this system, but maybe I'm just reading too much into it.
TheSpoiler
Member
Air blocking would break this game in two.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Sabin last night on his stream "I want to play either Dhalsim or Karin"
FChamp today "I have a good feeling that Dhalsim will be in the game"
hmm.
FChamp today "I have a good feeling that Dhalsim will be in the game"
hmm.
TheSpoiler
Member
I doubt someone like FChamp has insider info.
Karsticles
Member
Remember all the times FChamp trolled about Marvel 3 patch "feelings". He doesn't know jack.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Not much of a "hmmmm" really, you're quoting two players known for playing Dhalsim at very high levels. Of course they're gonna want Dhalsim in the game. They like that guy.
zedreamcast
Member
In alpha 3 theyre hidden characters and you have to like have it on karin for 5 seconds then hold left on random or aomething.
I have no idea where Juli and Juni are either.
KidA Seven
Member
There is definitely something going on. Art used to always say he didn't want Sim in the game because he would have to pick him and suffer. I noticed he said in the chat he wanted Sim in the game during TGS as well out of no where. I asked him why the sudden change of opinion, but he didn't answer me back. ;_;
I believe in the conspiracy sons.
KhalilSyncere
Member
I'm pretty sure that you you actually DO have to press down + parry buttons in order to parry low attacks, as there's an actual animation to doing it and just the same, the parry still works as its always been intended to with allowing you to strike back immediately after the parry. The whiff animation part is a good thing overall, just as there's been throw whiff animations in most fighters in modern fighting games.
I haven't heard a single person say you have to press down to parry low, even after the Beta. Has there been a change in a recent build?
You sure he wasn't talking about Alpha 3? Because he said exactly that before he began playing matches.
That said I wouldn't be surprised if certainly players are in the know.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Based on popularity alone, most people want to play as Sim. I wouldn't look too much into it.
Holy Order Sol
Member
that's my leak you still gotta pay dawg
The animation is automatic. There's no input needed. One parry parried everything.
KhalilSyncere
Member
I know when I was in the better pressing down along with the buttons is what produced the low parry animation, versus just pressing it by itself doing the normal one.
Any character would benefit from one. Chun-LI has a very floaty jump with no way to alter her jump arc so I can't imagine she won't benefit from it.
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