[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.

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By the way, the big end title theme is fantastic. The way the Rey theme goes into the others.

No kidding; that fusion of her theme and the Force theme towards the end? Man.

Reminds me a bit of how Williams combined the Raiders March and Mutt's theme in the KOTCS credits, actually (one of my favorite bits of that entire score).
 
You know what -- I completely forgot. It's like the clone wars mention in the OT. I just associate it with the prequels, totally my bad there.

They're referred to only once or so, so not surprised one misses or forgets them.

Luke: "You [Obi-Wan] fought in the Clone Wars?"

Tarkin (paraphrasing): "The Emperor has dissolved the Senate, the last remnants of the old Republic"
 
Rey's Theme is fucking gorgeous. Where's the guy who said the soundtrack was "meh"? Fuck off, buddy.

My comments on the soundtrack (which were posted in the other thread IIRC) were based on what what used in the film.

Every memorable beat in the film used an old cue.

As an example, the music that plays when Rey focuses during the climatic battle? It's an old theme, not a new one.

In the film, the soundtrack serves a mostly atmospheric role.
 
What I always wondered, is there any kind of educational system in the entire Star Wars Universe besides(sort of) the Jedi Academy and the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy?
 
What I always wondered, is there any kind of educational system in the entire Star Wars Universe besides(sort of) the Jedi Academy and the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy?

With a gazillion of planets, i figure most of them have their own education systems.

Military academies exist. Jedi Order is an unique thing.

Old EU sure had universities etc., i think, new canon will have such at some point no doubt.

So should we assume Kylo's name is actually Obi Wan Solo? I know he shouts Ben, but isn't Ben just shorthand for it?

Nah, Ben was an alias. I figure Han and Leia named him Ben as to avoid overt reference to Obi-Wan but to honor him, to avoid too much attention etc.
 
My comments on the soundtrack (which were posted in the other thread IIRC) were based on what what used in the film.

Every memorable beat in the film used an old cue.

As an example, the music that plays when Rey focuses during the climatic battle? It's an old theme, not a new one.

In the film, the soundtrack serves a mostly atmospheric role.

I agree that outside the familiar notes, the soundtrack is actually... not that memorable. As I said the most climactic battles really lacked impact, the sounds from OT could've helped there, it's the same movie line anyway...
 
Saw this movie and had an hour long trip home to digest.

No, it's not perfect. Nothing ever is. There are parts which I felt were slow. The final attack on the Superweapon lacked impact and drama (music was a bit off there), even though they kept saying that it was going to fire soon - not even close to ANH level of tension. The whole superweapon part didn't feel like it needed to be in the movie at all, to be honest, especially since it got destroyed and we had enough drama with characters already. Can one superbase survive for longer and cause some real threat - this weapon harnessed the energy of the sun, couldn't it be set up to be very hard to take down and last the whole trilogy like a bit threat? Feels like a waste of an awesome concept a bit.

There are also some slower and frankly unnecessary moments in cantina and Han Solo cargo sidestory which are a bit awkward. I also felt that the ending left a lot of threads dangling this time, as if JJ made a plot of TV pilot again.

Everything else was AWESOME though. The amount of good stuff in this movie is incredible. The movie hits all the right notes, has great cinematography, starting shot is cool, action is awesome, characters are relatable and not cliché. A lot of action felt grounded and real. The use of real locations and effects is palpable, there is a sense of reality in this world.

It's definitely up there with OT and shits all over the prequels. As a matter of fact there's no mention of anything from the prequels. When FO fires the superweapon they talk about destroying the "Republic" but we get no mention of Coruscant or anything of the sort even there.

Kylo Ren is a good villain and is set up to become even better. The guy is clearly having issues and more depth than appears initially. Phasma, on the other hand is overhyped and shouldn't have been marketed so much. She's there for a couple of scenes but so far she could've been any other senior stormtrooper. Her fate is ambiguous so maybe she'll come back and become more important later on. I don't like the big CGI hologram guy because he has literary no set up. I get that we'll see more in the sequels but, while the Emperor was kind of a natural villain, being the leader of the evil Empire and all, the new big bad is just ... there... and he's dark...

The main protagonists are great. Both actors perform admirably, Finn is great, Rey is awesome, no damsel in distress here. BB8 is the best thing in the movie. Returning cast does good, Harrison is a joy, Leia as well. Luke, heh...

Can I also say that while there wasn't that many lightsaber scenes in the movie, they felt more real than any complex choreography in the prequels? Just brutal hamfisted swordfighting - awesome. Felt very real and once again those shots were fantastic even if the fights were, in the end, quite simple.

Last, the great thing about this movie is all the stuff that is not there. No politics, no mention of prequels, no slapstick gags. I didn't feel like any callback to OT was forced or out-of-place. It was so easy to screw up but this movie is about people acting under distress in a very relatable way and nobody ruins this.

In a nutshell, this movie had a very difficult task: bring back the old cast and do them justice, set up a whole new range of movies, set up new interesting heroes and villains, and, at the same time, live up to the exorbitant amount of hype. It succeeded everywhere, but for the hype which was anyway impossible to do.

I can see that most of my issues come from that need to have a bigger universe. That so many things could've been told but are not because we'll get the sequels, we'll get the prequel between-the-trilogies cartoon, we'll get the comic books and other stuff. This movie's greatest success is that it's good, like solid good, and also sets up a huge amount of interesting stuff around it. The Star Wars universe is once again exciting.

Just don't go in there expecting the second coming of Jesus.

In my book, JJ pulled it off and I'm going to see it again maybe next week or even earlier.

Tickets cancelled.
 
No kidding; that fusion of her theme and the Force theme towards the end? Man.

Reminds me a bit of how Williams combined the Raiders March and Mutt's theme in the KOTCS credits, actually (one of my favorite bits of that entire score).

I have that on loop, Along with Jedi Steps.

I also really like Rey's theme in general, Its very playful but a bit of a sad/lonely ending to it.

But the End Titles are fantastic.

And I mean "Way of the Force" - That has big and epic all over it and I Can't wait to hear it cranked up and blasting when Rey picks up that lightsaber
 
Just highlevel: How good is the logical plot progression flow?
Like how does the Falcon find, back to Han, "ah here is Luke's saber" feel?
If there is one thing StarTrek 2009 had it was convenient coincidences galore like when Spock is in the first cave Kirk goes in.
 
With a gazillion of planets, i figure most of them have their own education systems.

Military academies exist. Jedi Order is an unique thing.

Old EU sure had universities etc., i think, new canon will have such at some point no doubt.



Nah, Ben was an alias. I figure Han and Leia named him Ben as to avoid overt reference to Obi-Wan but to honor him, to avoid too much attention etc.

That is more of an assumption than a actual answer.
 
One thing that does have me wondering if Snoke is indeed Darth Plagueis is the fact that Kylo Ren says Supreme Leader Snoke is "Wise" when speaking to Han. In episode III Sidious refers to him as Darth Plagueis the Wise. Something about the way Kylo says it seems like it could be a hint, but it could be a red herring too.
 
That is more of an assumption than a actual answer.

All you're gonna get right now for there isn't actual answer.

BRB, going to Wookieepedia. I hope i don't get lost.

EDIT Universities exist in old EU: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/University
No Canon tab, so none are mentioned yet in the actual canon.
EDIT Schools: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/School
No Canon tab either... yet.

One thing that does have me wondering if Snoke is indeed Darth Plagueis is the fact that Kylo Ren says Supreme Leader Snoke is "Wise" when speaking to Han. In episode III Sidious refers to him as Darth Plagueis the Wise. Something about the way Kylo says it seems like it could be a hint, but it could be a red herring too.

...

No.
No.

Wise is just a fucking word. He is wise because he gave wise advice according to Ren, or is knowledgeable or whatever else. That is all.
 
Does Leia know Rey? She goes up to her and hugs her at the end, saying nothing. One gets the feeling she knows who she is? Or is it a force sensitive thing?

Could she be Lukes "hidden" daughter, kind of like he himself was hidden on tatooine?
 
So did they actually blow up Coruscant (and other planets in its solar system) with the Starkiller Base? I'm not sure, since I think I saw a lake in the background in that scene. It was all really blurry with the intense red beam of destruction and all... Neither the Senate, nor the Jedi Temple were visible so it might not have been Coruscant though.

Solid movie overall, at least on par with RotJ. Empire and ANH are still better. Kylo Ren being Han and Leia's son (Ben Solo) was revealed too casually I think. Loved all the new characters and their actors. Ford was the old Solo we know and love. Sad to see him gone, but c'est la vie. BB-8 was adorable, as expected. I hope Captain Phasma gets to be an actual badass in ep.8, since she's a bit wasted in this. General Hux's speech to his troops screamed all kinds of nazi with the stormtrooper salute and all. The officers are still rocking those jodhpurs too, so classy ~.
breech_mens_va_ital.jpg


The movie also left me with so many questions. Who is Snoke and where did he come from? How did Ben turn to the dark side? We're there no secrets left at all at the Jedi Temple in Coruscant for Luke to find after the Empire fell? I can't remember if they erased/destroyed the jedi archives in RotS. We at least saw the building intact at the end of RotJ. Also, how did Maz Kanata come in possession of Anakin's lightsaber? Luke lost it along with his right arm at the end of ESB in Cloud City. Must have went down the same chute as he did. Who's daughter is Rey? Luke's or Leia's or neithers? Guess we just have to wait two years to find out.
 
Does Leia know Rey? She goes up to her and hugs her at the end, saying nothing. One gets the feeling she knows who she is? Or is it a force sensitive thing?

Could she be Lukes "hidden" daughter, kind of like he himself was hidden on tatooine?

I'd imagine she can sense she is somehow important through the Force and instinct.

The previous page has some of my thoughts about Kylo Ren and Rey and the timeline between ROTJ and TFA.

So did they actually blow up Coruscant (and other planets in its solar system) with the Starkiller Base?

That was Hosnian Prime, apparently the new capital. Not Coruscant.
Makes me wonder what has happened to Coruscant...
 
All you're gonna get right now for there isn't actual answer.

BRB, going to Wookieepedia. I hope i don't get lost.

EDIT Universities exist in old EU: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/University
No Canon tab, so none are mentioned yet in the actual canon.



...

No.
No.

Wise is just a fucking word. He is wise because he gave wise advice according to Ren. That is all.

lol I'm just throwing out a theory here. I mean is there any actual evidence out there that he is not Plageius for certain? I think it would be pretty cool. Yeah I understand the whole Plageius theory annoys some people but it's something to think about. Snoke looks fucking ancient so who knows for sure
 
lol I'm just throwing out a theory here. I mean is there any actual evidence out there that he is not Plageius for certain? I think it would be pretty cool. Yeah I understand the whole Plageius theory annoys some people but it's something to think about. Snoke looks fucking ancient so who knows for sure

1) It is implied in EP3 Sidious killed Plagueis.
2) It is stated in EP3 Plagueis is dead.
3) Lucasfilm employees mock the idea of Snoke being Plagueis.
4) There has never been any evidence of Snoke being Plagueis. It is but a fan theory.
 
I liked it, although I went to the theaters with absolutely no expectations, since making a sequel to an already quite clearly closed story is always a bit iffy. But in this case, it worked out quite right.

I liked both Finn and Rey, they both seemed to have quite a lot of personality. I enjoyed the fact that they got over the 'liar reveal' story really fast, as those plots tend to completely put the films to a standstill, not here though.

What I didn't enjoy, was Kylo Ren, sadly. I'm all up for villain to have visible mental conflict, and I think it did a favor to his character, that the family-connection to Han Solo was revealed quickly. But, I just feel that the actor was somewhat overacting at parts, so much so that it almost looked like Kylo was having sudden strikes of teenager angst, rather than having an believable character conflict. I do think it's fitting he killed Han, though.

Other than that, the film felt well made in general. The plot felt both self-contained, yet also clearly set up the sequels, which is a balance that I don't usually see in films (usually it's either completely self contained or a forced cliffhanger). I hope they keep the solid plot going with next episodes, and keep Finn and Rey as likable as they were. I think those two were what were going to either "make or break" TFA, and this time luckily it was clearly "make".
 
at this point everything is possible for snoke, they left that open deliberately. I would be surprised of Abrams/Kasdam gave it a lot more thought than what we got on screen.
but even if they did, in the end it's up to the writers of episode 8 and 9 to decide what snoke is.
as far as I know we have no canon information about plagueis except what was said about him in episode 3, so they could bring him back, I guess? maybe he fooled sidious. I doubt it a lot, though.
 
1) It is implied in EP3 Sidious killed Plagueis.
2) It is stated in EP3 Plagueis is dead.
3) Lucasfilm employees mock the idea of Snoke being Plagueis.
4) There has never been any evidence of Snoke being Plagueis. It is but a fan theory.

Yeah I realize it's just a theory right now, but it's one that seems plausible to me. If his power was so great that he could resurrect himself from death like Sidious said in EP3 it's a possibility. That's all I'm saying. Not trying state it as fact or anything. Time will tell.
 
1) It is implied in EP3 Sidious killed Plagueis.
2) It is stated in EP3 Plagueis is dead.
3) Lucasfilm employees mock the idea of Snoke being Plagueis.
4) There has never been any evidence of Snoke being Plagueis. It is but a fan theory.

It's nothing more than a fan theory that was partially sparked by a leaked piece of concept art of the final duel between Rey and Kylo. Fans latched onto that unfinished Kylo design and truly believed that it was confirmation of Plagueis. People like Harloff latched onto that fan frenzy to mine a steady stream of viewers for his "confirmations" of Plagueis...which all dried up on Monday night.
 
The theory of Plagueis died at Celebration when JJ was asked specifically if Snoke was Plagueis and he said no.

Let the Khan thing go people.
 
Does Leia know Rey? She goes up to her and hugs her at the end, saying nothing. One gets the feeling she knows who she is? Or is it a force sensitive thing?

Could she be Lukes "hidden" daughter, kind of like he himself was hidden on tatooine?

Of the three who were there, one's a wookie, one's in coma and one's Rey. She had to hug someone.
 
as far as I know we have no canon information about plagueis except what was said about him in episode 3, so they could bring him back, I guess? maybe he fooled sidious. I doubt it a lot, though.

I reckon resurrection is one thing that will be avoided in Star Wars.
It was kind of the point of EP3, resurrection is impossible.

(Necromancy isn't out of question, didn't the Nightsisters raise some zombies? Don't think this will make to the films though. So no Plagueis.)
 
Listening to the Scavenger track and it just reminded me of one of my favourite parts in the movie, the one where Rey is putting on that Rebel fighter helmet and sitting outside near a wrecked AT-AT walker.
 
Listening to the Scavenger track and it just reminded me of one of my favourite parts in the movie, the one where Rey is putting on that Rebel fighter helmet and sitting outside near a wrecked AT-AT walker.

It is a good scene.
You can see her thoughts:
"How does it feel to be a star pilot?" "Comfy" "Whoosh, pew pew"
 
It would be so bizarre if literally the one thing they keep from the PT was Plagueis, a dude who was never seen on screen or did anything important but was used as a topic of conversation in a glorified couch scene.
 
Some thoughts:

I think Rey having repressed memories and being a former student makes sense. She's way too good with the Force to have never used it before. I do think she's a Skywalker and a natural Force user but certainly more than that is required.

As for the Knights of Ren... I think Kylo was an older student when he was turned by Snoke (perhaps other Rens are also former students?) and they went and killed all the others.

Whether this happened with the signature suits is unknown, the Force vision may have been imprecise.

I would put Kylo at around 30 (up to +5?) years old, born a year or so after RotJ. Luke starts training new Jedi not too soon after RotJ, perhaps within 10 years though. Around 15-17 Kylo is turned, and then spends some 5 years creating the Knights. So the massacre would've happened 10-15 years before the film, and before the Jedi have truly born again, leaving Luke's Jedi stillborn.
Rey seems to be about 20, so perhaps she was about 5 to 10 years old when the massacre happened. Perhaps she was a survivor (for whatever reason)? Luke could've messed with her memory due to a trauma or something (or just a trauma alone). She gets dumped to Jakku for some reason. (And Luke prepares a trail that will lead her to him when the time's right.)

Finally, someone who replied with details on their theory for what took place. The flashback with Kylo already having the saber during the attack is what confused me the most since I assumed him and Rey were separated as children. But your theory makes way more sense.

Oh and Kylo definitely left the school and came back to kill them because how else would he have gotten that outfit plus new lightsaber? And a group with him haha.
 
Of the three who were there, one's a wookie, one's in coma and one's Rey. She had to hug someone.

Well she hugs chewie several times over the movies and surely they must have felt hans death the most

I thought the hug implied something.. Also she sends Rey and chewie after luke.. Im betting rey is lukes daughter
 
Was anybody else absolutely loving the movie until
Han and Chewie showed up
?

Just highlevel: How good is the logical plot progression flow?
Like how does the Falcon find, back to Han, "ah here is Luke's saber" feel?
If there is one thing StarTrek 2009 had it was convenient coincidences galore like when Spock is in the first cave Kirk goes in.

Some of it is that dumb. Makes the universe feel very small at times. There is pretty much a "I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain" line at one point.
 
Soundtrack is... subdued. Both in tone and thematically.

It's not bad, but it's definitely a little different from what Williams has done before in that it seems leitmotif has kinda taken a bit of a backseat to more unique underscore from scene to scene.
 
Is it just me or is the Main Title on the new soundtrack a little different? It sounds like it might be higher pitched and have some other minor differences.
 
What was this?

Ah fuck they took it down? Shitty! It was a scene where Rey is igniting Luke's lightsaber for the first time as she is about to face Ren, and Ren is unmasked looking back at her with an "oh shiiiiit" look on his face and he ignites his saber and it looked fucking awesome.
 
Kylo Ren was a good character until he remove his helmet.

Didnt know they hire John Snow for that part

In my opinion him removing the helmet was too soon or the wrong moment. If I directed the film I would've had that occur when his father confronts him, have an emotional part where Kylo takes off the helmet and Solo helps/holds part of it and the dialogue continues and then he kills Solo. I think it could've been more impactful.
 
I'm thinking rey is luke and leia's daughter the ultimate wielder of the force. Incestuous, yes, but when you fight ppl who only deal in absolutes you can't leave it to chance

Oh, great fucking movie, only disappointment is using desert/forest/ice planets as a kind of callback to the OT planets
 
I'm thinking rey is luke and leia's daughter the ultimate wielder of the force. Incestuous, yes, but when you fight ppl who only deal in absolutes you can't leave it to chance

Oh, great fucking movie, only disappointment is using desert/forest/ice planets as a kind of callback to the OT planets

I hope not. D:
 
Maybe Episodes X-XII will be prequels to VII to explain/show Kylo's turn to the dark side?

I kid, I kid. Although someone had mentioned waaay back in this thread the idea for an animated series (ala TCW and Rebels) depicting the events prior to TFA. We'll get something for sure. I just hold out hope it's a live-action or animated and not a book(s). Nothing against reading, I'm just too lazy.
 
Soundtrack is... subdued. Both in tone and thematically.

It's not bad, but it's definitely a little different from what Williams has done before in that it seems leitmotif has kinda taken a bit of a backseat to more unique underscore from scene to scene.

It's more of a modern blockbuster movie score than I was expecting. The most memeroble parts were when it referenced old themes. Nothing new that rivaled Duel of the Fates.

Perfectly serviceable throughout.
 
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