[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.

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Harmen said:
I like that now both the dark side and the light side have "rookies" that will get extensive training. Looking forward to the inevitable confrontation(s) after that. In many films the villains are already top-tier, with the protagonist being clumsy/weak/unprepared/etc. Now it seems we will get the journey for new potential masters on both sides. Kylo is an interesting villain; I hope they do his transition to a more seasoned and intimidating villain well (if at all).

New characters are all very likeable and have something distinct about them, which is great. This films sets up the stage for what is to come in an excellent way.

Also, regarding the people saying the story has not been written yet. Really? I mean, they must have the basics set in stone right? Making a new script of how events unfold does not mean they do not have the background stories ("lore") present already. I honestly expect them to already know who Snoke is, whom's daughter Rey is, what Lukes plans were/are etc.
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"who Snoke is"?

I'd prefer him to be just an evil dude named Snoke, maybe a former high ranking member of the Imperial Council, but I seriously hope that there isn't some reveal surrounding him.
 
CloudWolf said:
By the way, I was watching that video of the Victory Celebration sequence and seeing Han jump with joy and hugging Lando suddenly made me all sad. RIP cool smuggler dude.
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I liked the way he went. Harrison clearly wanted out ages ago and having his exit made him do an amazing last role as Han. As for Han himself, he died as a mature character whose last act was to take responsibility and being serious for once. The regret over his death is what's gonna brick back Kylo in the third episode, count on it.
 
crackhead_bob said:
I'm wondering if complaints of the familiar retreads would be more widespread had the prequels been decent.
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Had the prequels been decent you wouldn't have this movie.

This movie was mathematically built to make you forget the prequels ever existed and that from now on only the OT mattered.

We would have had something way more original had the prequels been decent.
 
Adam Driver was fantastic. Loved the complete reframing of the character when the mask came off.
 
Amazing

Felt like a film made for fans of the original whereas the prequels felt like a film made for toy manufacturers.
 
vladdamad said:
I'm also worried now that all of the lore and world-building is going to be relegated to the Expanded Universe. Like how C-3P0 got his red arm - seems to be a major change in the character and from what I understand it's only explained in the comics?.
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I'm sure it will be answered but does anyone care if it's not? No one really cared why threepio had a silver shin guard/foot in the original movie.

images
 
CloudWolf said:
"who Snoke is"?

I'd prefer him to be just an evil dude named Snoke, maybe a former high ranking member of the Imperial Council, but I seriously hope that there isn't some reveal surrounding him.
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Just a Grand Moff gone bad. Han said to Kylo Ren that Snoke was "only using him for his power," so I hope that implies Snoke isn't a Force user.
 
CloudWolf said:
"who Snoke is"?

I'd prefer him to be just an evil dude named Snoke, maybe a former high ranking member of the Imperial Council, but I seriously hope that there isn't some reveal surrounding him.
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Yes, I don't really expect a major plot-twist there (I do hope we will get some background hints or info, as he seems like a powerful force user) but I just used it as an example. My point was that I do expect them to have certain key aspects set in stone already (overall direction of the plot), with the events and dialouges being written or altered in the future.

Aiii said:
Just a Grand Moff gone bad. Han said to Kylo Ren that Snoke was "only using him for his power," so I hope that implies Snoke isn't a Force user.
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True, but Snoke is also going to train Kylo and felt an "awakening" just like Kylo did. I assume he is a force user. But just like any dark side leader, he needs a strong and loyal follower, which was Han's point.
 
I found out that Han dies thanks to some dipshit on Instagram last night. So I knew but wondered how they would tackle it.

I expected a more epic exit for Han but what we got was just alright I guess..

I was thinking to myself we aren't seeing Luke are we as the movie went on.. I guess he'll be at fore front of VIII.
 
Had the prequels been decent you wouldn't have this movie.

This movie was mathematically built to make you forget the prequels ever existed and that from now on only the OT mattered.

We would have had something way more original had the prequels been decent.
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I know this may be putting the cart in front of the horse, but I wonder how Disney is going to handle any prequel based storytelling from this point forward. If this new trilogy ends of being solid, It's going to marginalize the prequels even further.

And yet there is probably going to be a contingent of writers for Disney who will feel that they're worth exploring, and tying into the current and future lineup of Star Wars films.

I'm sure alot of people are content in ignoring the prequels, and will raise a ruckus if any plotpoints in episode viii and beyond tries tying into the prequels in any way.

I can't have been the only one who has thought about this.
 
crackhead_bob said:
I know this may be putting the cart in front of the horse, but I wonder how Disney is going to handle any prequel based storytelling from this point forward. If this sequel ends of being solid, It's going to marginalize the prequels even further.

And yet there is probably going to be a contingent of writers for Disney who will feel that they're worth exploring, and tying into the current and future lineup of Star Wars films.

I'm sure alot of people are content in ignoring the prequels, and will raise a ruckus if any plotpoints in episode viii and beyond tries tying into the prequels in any way.

I can't have been the only one who has thought about this.
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Hopefully they just remake them eventually and strike the old ones from the canon.

Don't tell me no. Those movies are pieces of shit. It'll happen eventually.
 
chesspieceface said:
"Hey look at how authentic we are with all these rubber man-in-suit creatures all over the place! Just like ANH!"

Then proceed to introduce a CG character that looks worse than Jar-Jar Binks did 15 years ago

-_-
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LOL. yeah, this is a major disappointment for me. So much hype for practical effects and the 2 major alien characters were computer generated and didn't look too hot either. Lupita's character easily could have been a puppet, or had make up effects applied. It was distracting in a bad way. Snoke looked awful as well. Oh well. At least BB-8 was amazing!
 
Harmen said:
True, but Snoke is also going to train Kylo and felt an "awakening" just like Kylo did. I assume he is a force user. But just like any dark side leader, he needs a strong and loyal follower, which was Han's point.
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Ah, yes, of course.
 
chesspieceface said:
Had the prequels been decent you wouldn't have this movie.

This movie was mathematically built to make you forget the prequels ever existed and that from now on only the OT mattered.

We would have had something way more original had the prequels been decent.
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I totally agree with this.

Disney had to get the stink of the prequels off the franchise and introduce it to the next generation. A reboot/remake was necessary.

I'm willing to cut them some slack for this first installment, but there better be something different for Episode VIII.
 
Kylo knows about Vader redeeming himself and I believe sees it as the one element he will surpass (by staying on the dark side). It's clearly stated in the visual dictionary that he knows what happened with Vader and the Emperor.
 
Aiii said:
Just a Grand Moff gone bad. Han said to Kylo Ren that Snoke was "only using him for his power," so I hope that implies Snoke isn't a Force user.
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He is definitely a sentient. He felt the awakening and he is training Kylo. He is not Sith apparently. It seems they are over with the notion of Sith, I wonder what they have in mind concerning these new dark side followers.
 
Spotless Mind said:
LOL. yeah, this is a major disappointment for me. So much hype for practical effects and the 2 major alien characters were computer generated and didn't look too hot either. Lupita's character easily could have been a puppet, or had make up effects applied. It was distracting in a bad way. Snoke looked awful as well. Oh well. At least BB-8 was amazing!
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I liked BB8 too, but I found that R2 being powered off for the whole movie made his existence unjustified, as in, R2 should have been used in BB8's place.

But yeah I know, merchandising :)
 
vladdamad said:
This film probably has my favourite cast in the whole series, but as others have mentioned the reliance on A New Hope was a little over the top. I also really didn't like how the environments looked, they lacked some sort of alien feel if that makes any sense? Apart from Jakku they all easily could have been on Earth, more so than anything in the original trilogy. It also doesn't help that the cinematography doesn't really feel like Star Wars, no more classic transitions between shots.

I'm also worried now that all of the lore and world-building is going to be relegated to the Expanded Universe. Like how C-3P0 got his red arm - seems to be a major change in the character and from what I understand it's only explained in the comics? Absolutely no explanation for the major conflict either, the whole thing kind of expects you to play along because these story beats (empire vs resistance, giant superweapon, etc.) are just what happens in a Star Wars film without any of it really feeling earned. Partially due to the frenetic pacing, I would have preferred a longer run time so that the scenes are given room to breathe. I hope that we delve more into the world in the next instalment - after all, A New Hope was quite a simplistic story also.

Having said that, absolutely amazing characters and character moments, Kylo Ren is what Episode II Anakin should have been, and Snoke, stupid name aside, is very mysterious and can't wait to see more of him. A solid foundation, if a little underwhelming, but as long as the next two films focus more on the new cast and less on the old there is potential for some real great Star Wars stories here.
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There are a few classic transition, although I'd have definitely liked more as I did feel at one point as if I was missing it. And about the locations, it's not like the original trilogy had anything that didnt look like eart outside of Tatooine. The prequels looked outside of the world due to heavy reliance of CG for the scenary.
 
Also speaking of R2 I'm quite disappointed by him being left out of that movie.

This whole saga is supposed to be recorded from the point of view of R2D2, and C3P0 to some extent. Having R2 missing years of the history of these characters just feels plain wrong in that context.
 
bill0527 said:
I totally agree with this.

Disney had to get the stink of the prequels off the franchise and introduce it to the next generation. A reboot/remake was necessary.

I'm willing to cut them some slack for this first installment, but there better be something different for Episode VIII.
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I honestly do not expect they will mirror Ep. V in VIII. (now I am imagening Kylo saying "I AM YOUR BROTHER/NEPHEW" to an unknowing Rey or something like that, lol).

They showed the fans they understand what makes the original SW so great and that they handle the material with care. That was absolutely necessary after the prequels. And they planted enough seeds in this story to deviate in different directions in future entries I think.

eot said:
Hopefully they just remake them eventually and strike the old ones from the canon.

Don't tell me no. Those movies are pieces of shit. It'll happen eventually.
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I would seriously look forward to a well-casted, well-paced and generally well-written version of the prequel trilogy, with visuals on the level of VII. But I expect Disney to go forward, which I prefer anyways. Remakes/reboots will probably eventually come when we are several generations of people further.
 
Hopefully they just remake them eventually and strike the old ones from the canon.
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But they're never going to do that. Disney will more likely bankroll an entirely new trilogy instead.

Personally, I feel Disney should greenlight an animated series based on each of the 3 prequel films. 15-20 episodes each. Get Dave Filoni and others from the Clone Wars/Rebels teams to craft the show. Salvage some of the ideas that Lucas mess up, while discarding the ones that should never have seen the light of day. Get rid of 9 year old Anakin, and make him in his late teens, or mid teens if they want to parallel Ahsoka/Ezra's journey, ect.

That's the only way I feel that the prequels could ever be redeemed. As much praise as the Clone Wars cartoon series gets, they don't in any way improve those films. They're actually dragged them down to their level to the point that they're overlooked because of the baggage that the prequels carry. Clone Wars (and Rebels) are actually well written shows. At the very least, a prequel trilogy television series would make fans of Clone Wars/Rebels happy, and might even win over people like myself who were turned off by the prequels.

I have no problem associating Rebels as part of Star Wars canon, even though I don't think it enhances my enjoyment of the OT. But I'm really torn when it comes to Clone Wars, because of the shit that it's derived from. A redone prequel trilogy -- even if it were an animated series, would at least soften the blow if sometime down the line Disney writers were to decide to begin incorperating prequel era ideas into future Star Wars films.
 
chesspieceface said:
Also speaking of R2 I'm quite disappointed by him being left out of that movie.

This whole saga is supposed to be recorded from the point of view of R2D2, and C3P0 to some extent. Having R2 missing years of the history of these characters just feels plain wrong in that context.
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How is this true? There are plenty of lengthy sequences in the films in which R2D2, nor C-3P0 are not present.
 
thenexus6 said:
How much of Han dying is down to Harrison Ford not really wanting to be involved in the franchise much going forwards?
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It felt a little like they knew he might retire soon, and that the best way to get an amazing performance out of him is to let him know that it'll be his last film.

Edit: I imagine Lando is a leading figure in that pacifist government they mentioned. I mean, he rolled over for the empire.
 
thenexus6 said:
How much of Han dying is down to Harrison Ford not really wanting to be involved in the franchise much going forwards?
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I'd imagine a lot. My friends and I said Han would die as soon as Ford's involvement was announced. He wanted it to happen in ROTJ, after all.
 
crackhead_bob said:
I'm wondering if complaints of the familiar retreads would be more widespread had the prequels been decent. Do the nostalgic beats feel natural or forced? To be honest, I'm more concerned if the acting and writing is good. I think alot of fans feel letdown to the point that if this film is merely decent it will have done its job. Many are saying Abrams has played it safe, but maybe that's what this property needs going out the gate.
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I'm wondering if there would have been quite as many familiar retreads had the prequels been well received. I would imagine the negative opinions on the prequels swayed the decision to mirror so much of the original films to make fans feel comfortable, and the new aspects will develop more from this point on.

thenexus6 said:
How much of Han dying is down to Harrison Ford not really wanting to be involved in the franchise much going forwards?
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That'd be funny. His death mirrors Obiwan's death to the point that he was written out because the actor was done
 
thenexus6 said:
How much of Han dying is down to Harrison Ford not really wanting to be involved in the franchise much going forwards?
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It was probably part of the contract when they were trying to get him back, we promise we'll kill you in the first one don't worry!

They should have just said you don't have to do publicity stuff for the others and kept him around, that seems to be the most cranky he gets!
 
NekoFever said:
I'd imagine a lot. My friends and I said Han would die as soon as Ford's involvement was announced. He wanted it to happen in ROTJ, after all.
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Both from a personal point of view (Ford's) and from a narrative perspective...his death makes perfect sense here.

It's a "passing of the torch" film on all fronts. Knowing that Ford thought the character should sacrifice himself to help strengthen the emotional core of the plot in Jedi made it kind of obvious that that's what would be his main draw here.

Putting it all together wasn't really that hard...what solidified it for me was a shot in one of the trailers (which I got wrong) that misled me to think that Daisy Ridley was crying over Solo's dead body...but overall the prediction wasn't that hard to make.

It's still very hard to take, but it helps to cement Kylo Ren as THE villain for this trilogy, immediately elevating him above any villain in the prequel trilogy.
 
is anyone willing to argue that this isn't JJ Abrams's best movie?
 
chesspieceface said:
Had the prequels been decent you wouldn't have this movie.

This movie was mathematically built to make you forget the prequels ever existed and that from now on only the OT mattered.

We would have had something way more original had the prequels been decent.
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This doesn't make much sense. There are no references to the PT because none of the characters were around for it to matter. People talk about that era as if there wasn't a five season show about it that carried over into the current pre-OT show. There's more PT canon content than OT in the Star Wars universe. This is a introduction to Star Wars for today's kids but I just can't see it being because OT die-hards didn't like the prequels.
 
chesspieceface said:
From the "making of" of ROTS I believe... Lucas said that these stories were told to the Keeper of the Whills by R2-D2 hundreds of years after the events of the films.
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That doesn't mean the films are framed from the point of view of R2-D2 and C-3PO. The films definitely have an omniscient point of view. Neither droid is present for the first half of TPM, nor Obi-Wan's half of AOTC, nor Obi-Wan's half of ROTS. They spend most of the escape from the Death Star in one room, separate from our heroes, they're not present for Luke's confrontation with Vader in Empire, nor are they present for Luke's confrontation with Vader and Palpatine in Jedi.

If these were films wherein the POV was that of the droids, then there wouldn't be lengthy sequences in which the droids are absent.
 
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