WadiumArcadium
Member
See Bobby's post.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
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See Bobby's post.
Terbinator
Member
Right, that's my point. It's "lost" and that's the reason for the green one being built yet Maz's sabre is blue.
But is Anakin's not the one given to Luke in ANH and subsequently lost on Bespin?
TFA confirmed as the Halo 4 of film.
This can't be real?
obin_gam
Member
Were the stormtroopers in Ep4 and beyond ordinary conscripts or clones?
The green one being built is part of the jedi training. As per Vaders comment of thus.
Mangoverboard
Banned
Great film, loved all the new leads. Finn especially was great.
Some slight issues with how Rey could beat Kylo, I know he was injured for the lightsabre battle but he's been using that thing for years and Rey picks one up for the first time and is better than him? Also, she's randomly massively stronger in the force? Again, something she's using for the first time and Kylo has been using for years. He'd been doing some powerful shit with the force too. That blaster laser just hovering in the air was cool as shit.
Some slight issues with how Rey could beat Kylo, I know he was injured for the lightsabre battle but he's been using that thing for years and Rey picks one up for the first time and is better than him? Also, she's randomly massively stronger in the force? Again, something she's using for the first time and Kylo has been using for years. He'd been doing some powerful shit with the force too. That blaster laser just hovering in the air was cool as shit.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
Conscripts.
I think by ANH they were conscripts.
Messypandas
Member
It could have been just chilling in the vents all these years. Luke seemed unlucky when he landed exactly on that door/port thing.
they wanted it blue because that has the "heirloom" quality of being passed down.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Lol, it is the blue lightsaber.
Yeah I edited mine. I don't like that explantation.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Why wouldn't it be real?
A lot of people were like "how the fuck does Han not have his ship in The Force Awakens" and bent in half trying to figure out scenarios that could fit and be explained in this movie.
The answer was "Someone jacked it from him." That's it.
BossDarkseid
Member
My theory about Rey till we discover otherwise is...kinda cliche but that she was a youngling being trained in the ways of the force/Jedi by Luke but the horror of the massacre at his academy basically shocked her into being cut off from the force. I mean apart from waiting for her parents she never mentions her years before Jakku. It's still kinda weird though but yeah...Kylo seems like he could be pretty powerful. Catching the blaster bolt reminded me in a way of Vader grabbing Han's blaster in TESB.
It seems like he's not all that skilled with a lightsaber, just has a lot of raw power in general force stuff, as well as suffering some serious rage issues. Plus he was both injured and conflicted, since he did not want to kill her, he wanted her as his apprentice.
Terbinator
Member
But he would have needed a new one anyway, regardless of training.
If it's the same one that was lost into a series of tubes that complete and utter wank. Laziness of the highest degree.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Is it mentioned how long Han was looking for the Falcon? I can't remember if he said exactly how long it was.
I didn't consider Kylo to be particularily strong. Everything in him basically clamored "over confidence". He's barely graceful with his saber and his entire demeanor seems unsure. He doesn't fully know himself I think as of yet. Plus his little rebellion against luke probably cost him part of his training. So I don't think it's Rey who's overpowered, but rather Kylo not as strong as he thinks he is, apart from raw force manipulation
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't think he stated a year, but Rey & Han ticked off like, 4 owners between his ship getting stolen and Rey stealing it back. I'd guess at least 5 years maybe?
obin_gam
Member
lighterthumbsup.gif
BossDarkseid
Member
I think they said he'd been using the scanners on his freighter but since he'd gone back to dat smuggling life he'd sorta given up hope, I guess. Not sure on a timeframe.
Honestly, that was the funniest part of the entire movie.
I know Han and Finn had some good banter but yeah.
I'm pretty sure that Dave Filoni has stated that by the Rebels time period, there are still a few clones serving as storm troopers, but mainly in training roles. I would assume there would still be a very small number serving by ANH.
A friend and I are debating whether it was a thumbs up or a middle finger
obin_gam
Member
That, and when those two Stormtroopers turned back in the corridor when hearing Kylo Ren's anger issues
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Apparently, there is.
It's not like there's some sort of defining canon that says the saber didn't land somewhere else on Cloud City, or that Bespin itself doesn't actually have a surface beneath the gas clouds that someone could explore.
"you must unlearn..."
Mangoverboard
Banned
Finn and Poe in the tie fighter at the start was pretty funny too.
What the fuck is Snoke supposed to be? Thinking he might turn out to be a very powerful Sith force ghost.
Also, if Kylo is going to Vader's helmet for guidance, does that mean Anakin's spirit is guiding him to the dark side too? Redemption at the end of ROTJ means nothing?
Suppose you could say it's just Snoke manipulating him tho.
What the fuck is Snoke supposed to be? Thinking he might turn out to be a very powerful Sith force ghost.
Also, if Kylo is going to Vader's helmet for guidance, does that mean Anakin's spirit is guiding him to the dark side too? Redemption at the end of ROTJ means nothing?
Suppose you could say it's just Snoke manipulating him tho.
MrRudiMentary
Member
Not gonna lie, I'm kinda disappointed we haven't come up with much worse plot holes than Poe's escape and Luke's lightsaber.
I think the only big problem with the film is the scenes revolving around the Starkiller Base. It seemed unnecessary and lame to have "Look it's a bigger Death Star that can destroy a whole SOLAR SYSTEM" as the plot for the movie but it was barely even the plot. Starkiller Base could have just been a major military base without a superweapon and it would have been basically exactly the same movie. I also wasn't a big fan of the final sequence. It felt tacked on because they couldn't not have Mark Hamill in the movie. The movie should have ended with Rey and Chewie jumping to lightspeed.
I think the only big problem with the film is the scenes revolving around the Starkiller Base. It seemed unnecessary and lame to have "Look it's a bigger Death Star that can destroy a whole SOLAR SYSTEM" as the plot for the movie but it was barely even the plot. Starkiller Base could have just been a major military base without a superweapon and it would have been basically exactly the same movie. I also wasn't a big fan of the final sequence. It felt tacked on because they couldn't not have Mark Hamill in the movie. The movie should have ended with Rey and Chewie jumping to lightspeed.
BossDarkseid
Member
Their explanations may be disappointingly normal but they aren't really plot holes. Unless that's your point
Isn't that a good thing?
Kylo's mind is completely clouded. I doubt he can reach Anakin's force ghost.
That being said, a rumor says Hayden is going to shoot for a Star Wars movie soon (either spin off, flash back, force ghost...) , so it wouldn't be impossible that Anakin tries to help Ben follow the right path.
He was beyond redemption in their first script, they revised it and made him a poor brainwashed kid trying to fight for his own mind. Which, while ruining him as a threat, made his character much more compelling. He was just an asshole and deserved to die in the first script, here he just has a punchable face but there is still hope he can grow as a person and quit being a puppet.
That, and when those two Stormtroopers turned back in the corridor when hearing Kylo Ren's anger issues
Mangoverboard
Banned
I am the only one who thinks they've ruined any chance of his redemption? Killing your own dad, especially the way he did, moves you pretty far down the unsavable path.
Personally feeling like he might briefly align with Rey/Luke to kill Snoke and then turn on them.
maquiladora
Member
I'll never understand why some people are always obsessed with finding "plot holes". It's a fucking space opera action movie. It's meant to be escapist entertainment, not a fucking legal tender being examined word for word by lawyers looking for loopholes to exploit, Jesus...
Just finished seeing it for a second time.
Liked it more, if I'm honest. I could just sit back, without any worries or anticipation, and just enjoy it. I found myself looking forward to certain bits, in a film a saw a little over 12 hours previously. I never seen a film twice in such a short space of time, and I didn't feel tired or bored at all.
The only things I went in anticipating, were the few bits I didn't like first time round, but actually found they didn't bother me in anyway. Maybe I'm just tired. I also found it far more emotional than I did the first time; I felt a bit...overwhelmed and numb at the midnight showing, but going into having already seen it, I found it hit me harder.
Liked it more, if I'm honest. I could just sit back, without any worries or anticipation, and just enjoy it. I found myself looking forward to certain bits, in a film a saw a little over 12 hours previously. I never seen a film twice in such a short space of time, and I didn't feel tired or bored at all.
The only things I went in anticipating, were the few bits I didn't like first time round, but actually found they didn't bother me in anyway. Maybe I'm just tired. I also found it far more emotional than I did the first time; I felt a bit...overwhelmed and numb at the midnight showing, but going into having already seen it, I found it hit me harder.
I'm pretty much in agreement here. That being said, MAJOR plot holes can definitely ruin continuity and thus suspension of disbelief. The last thing you want is for an escapist fantasy movie to remind you that it is, in fact, just a movie. Nonetheless, plot holes of that magnitude are fairly rare these days. People love to nitpick stupid shit on the internet.
Could be worse. I have friends I met during film school back in 1996 who actually work in various parts of the industry. They freak out if they don't agree wit color correction choices and will drone on and on about it.
Here's the thing, originally, Solo called him off, and Kylo told him he wasn't his father and killed him, cold blooded.
In this version, Kylo actually does listen to Solo and tries to be good again. He fails. But he tried. He never tried in the original.
Plus, he is clearly depicted as a man-child the whole movie, with his rage, hair locks, misplaced pride etc...
I feel like the Snoke plot is gonna matter, he robbed him of his childhood, turned him into a puppet, while "Ben Solo" is still there trying to come back.
Original script he was just a pure evil asshole with no redeeming values whatsoever. He was scarier, but deserved instant death. Here he is just a brat, that needs to be set right.
Solo was gonna get killed no matter what due to Ford's wishes. If we learn it actually triggered Ben to be haunted by it and come back to the light, it wouldn't be for nothing.
WadiumArcadium
Member
No, I think you're right. I can't recall seeing him at all.
BossDarkseid
Member
Waiiiiit a second....
Wasn't Warwick Davis meant to cameo in this somewhere?
Wasn't Warwick Davis meant to cameo in this somewhere?
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
There's a difference between actively searching for plot holes to nit pick, and observing the film not adhering to the internal logic of the series. Things like Luke's lightsaber are an obvious ass-pull. Ultimately, the spin-offs and side stories are completely useless noise as far as I'm concerned, and I've come a much more believable explanation as to why it's there; marketing execs needed that shit in there. Same reason the good guys are underdog "resistance" fighters again. Same reason there's another planet destroying ray station. The more I think about the film, the more its utter devotion to marketability and all that shit becomes more smelly.
WadiumArcadium
Member
He's in it but I assume he's one of the background characters. Maybe at Maz's castle or in Jakku.
I love this movie!
It was so much fun, clear they want to distance the film so much from the prequels, no more senate political boring things that they need a one movie to explain and instead the movie focus on this new classic adventure of evil vs good.
It's funny, with great accion and great actors, of course has its flaws but remind me so much of episode IV that I thing it works like that movie did before.
And regarding the Rey story, please take in consideration these points.
- The movie is called The Force Awakens, the force awakens within Rey so this explains why she is easy learning to use it, also we skip the whole training thing that could drag the story way more than needed.
- She is a skilled fighter, that way she can use the Lightsaber so easily.
- And the final battle with Kylo show us how different this villain is, it's just a kid who don't know to control itself and lead to his failure, this lead to an amazing character development in future films.
It was so much fun, clear they want to distance the film so much from the prequels, no more senate political boring things that they need a one movie to explain and instead the movie focus on this new classic adventure of evil vs good.
It's funny, with great accion and great actors, of course has its flaws but remind me so much of episode IV that I thing it works like that movie did before.
And regarding the Rey story, please take in consideration these points.
- The movie is called The Force Awakens, the force awakens within Rey so this explains why she is easy learning to use it, also we skip the whole training thing that could drag the story way more than needed.
- She is a skilled fighter, that way she can use the Lightsaber so easily.
- And the final battle with Kylo show us how different this villain is, it's just a kid who don't know to control itself and lead to his failure, this lead to an amazing character development in future films.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
We don't know that Snoke "robbed him of his childhood at all."
It's just as possible (and it read to me this way) that he went bad all by himself, and sought out Snoke to cement it. Han even makes a remark that could be interpreted as he & Leia both kinda saw it coming - that seeing it coming might be why they sent him to Luke.
Ben Solo might be trying to fight out from under Kylo Ren, but I think instead of watching a guy grope towards redemption, the tragedy here will be watching a guy, Voldemort-style, willfully snuff out every last option he has back towards the light as soon as it pops up.
The way Snoke is portrayed, all Wizard of Oz-ish, we could see a scenario where Kylo basically wipes his ass with Snoke as part of that angry climb into hell he seems to be making.
A guy on one of the other podcasts says he caught him in the vision for a split sec.
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
Loved every piece of this movie. Chewie was awesome.
Sadly Han is gone now forever
But im excited to see EP8 now. Got tears with that ending. Finally seeing Luke. It just was awww.
Sadly Han is gone now forever
But im excited to see EP8 now. Got tears with that ending. Finally seeing Luke. It just was awww.
Wait what? How?
WadiumArcadium
Member
Oh cool. Something else to look out for on my second viewing. I expected him to have a slightly more prominent role though. Then again, it was the same with Phasma.
Mangoverboard
Banned
I just think we'll get a reverse of the Luke arc from the OT. Kylo will flirt with the Light but ultimately he'll embrace the dark side.
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
It really didn't matter at that point.
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