[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.

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Glass said:
Where does Kylo ren go from here? He can't be redeemed to the light side or in the audience's eyes after what he does.
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sure he can (well, maybe not in the eyes of the audience, heh). It'd make him a much more interesting character, precisely because of his heinous acts. Heck, I bet even Leia is going to forgive him. If he just decided to double-down on evil because he's beyond redemption anyway, that would be kind of boring, no? Also, very Anakin-like. First he has to sink to the lowest lows and be broken before he can rise again and begin to rebuild himself

he voiced doubts about his very own convictions in his conversation with Darth Vader's helmet (yeahhh), Han straight up told him Snoke is just using him for his own ends and will discard him eventually - and it didn't look like he couldn't believe it himself - and then there was the brief conversation with Rey in which he tried to get her to accept him as her teacher, because he clearly sees something in her, perhaps something he is not. The signs are there. I wouldn't really be surprised if he betrays his master in the next movie
 
Ecliptor said:
Is that supposed to be planet Earth at the end?
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No, but I just remembered this is supposed to be the place where the first Jedi Temple was built, which could explain why Kylo saw it in Rey's mind. The map was probably designed as a map to this planet in the first place, not specifically to Luke.
 
jett said:
Man, it sure is going to suck for anybody that types "han solo" in google looking for some basic information about him.
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Han Solo - dies
Han Solo - death
Han Solo - RIP

So glad I went today seeing how people are going out of their way to fuck with people across the web.
 
Oh and that thing about lightsabers requiring rigorous training before wielding one or you'll certainly impale yourself isn't true. I understand why they did it, gotta have a lightsaber battle...

edit:

Violet_0 said:
sure he can (well, maybe not in the eyes of the audience, heh). It'd make him a much more interesting character, precisely because of his heinous acts. Heck, I bet even Lea is going to forgive him. If he just decided to double-down on evil because he's beyond redemption anyway, that would be kind of boring, no? Also, very Anakin-like. First he has to sink to the lowest lows and be broken before he can rise again and begin to rebuild himself

he voiced doubts about his very own convictions in his conversation with Darth Vader's helmet (yeahhh), Han straight up told him Snoke is just using him for his own ends and will discard him eventually - and it didn't look like he couldn't believe it himself - and then there was the brief conversation with Rey in which he tried to get her to accept him as her teacher, because he clearly sees something in her, perhaps something he is not. The signs are there. I wouldn't really be surprised if he betrays his master in the next movie
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What kind of a name is Snoke anyway? Ben saw something in Rey because they are related
 
By the way, the new stormtrooper helmets look like duck beaks. When I first saw them today I couldn't help but utter "Oh look, Howard the duck is back."
 
samn said:
Is there a full analysis of what was rewritten or reshot anywhere?

I did have to stifle a giggle when he took his mask off I admit
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Everybody laughed at his face. Sigh

But there is no analysis. The movie just got out.

I just remembered the first draft (that had 95% right which means it wasn't a fluke).

He was beyond salvation in it.

Now, granted maybe because I had read the first draft, I felt like he really was torn between good and bad. There was no doubt in the original. So that does leave room for redemption.

Hagi said:
I think the big thing about his struggle was it came across as "I know what I have to do" being he had to kill Han to fully accept who he was and not "I know what I have to do" being please help me come back to the light. He's either getting killed by Rey or killing himself.
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He obviously made a terrible choice. Nobody debates that.

But the point is that he tried to fight that bad choice. He ultimately thought killing Han would free him.

I assume it obviously won't. It can all be worth it and OK depending on the writing of his next arc.

If it's the same incapable writers he's gonna be the most insufferable character ever. 216515 times worse than Anakin (that had reasons).

So hopefully, they can justify his descent into darkness with flashbacks, and they can also make him open his eyes about snoke and grant him the ability to redeem himself, and honor his father by being a third of the man he was.
 
Slaythe said:
Everybody laughed at his face. Sigh

But there is no analysis. The movie just got out.

I just remembered the first draft (that had 95% right which means it wasn't a fluke).

He was beyond salvation in it.

Now, granted maybe because I had read the first draft, I felt like he really was torn between good and bad. There was no doubt in the original. So that does leave room for redemption.



He obviously made a terrible choice. Nobody debates that.

But the point is that he tried to fight that bad choice. He ultimately thought killing Han would free him.

I assume it obviously won't. It can all be worth it and OK depending on the writing of his next arc.

If it's the same incapable writers he's gonna be the most insufferable character ever. 216515 times worse than Anakin (that had reasons).

So hopefully, they can justify his descent into darkness with flashbacks, and they can also make him open his eyes about snoke and grant him the ability to redeem himself, and honor his father by being a third of the man he was.
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Well I believe Rian Johnson is the only one writing the screenplay for Episode VIII, but I'm sure he's getting truckloads of notes.

I wonder about Michael Arndt's script though.
 
Hagi said:
Han Solo - dies
Han Solo - death
Han Solo - RIP

So glad I went today seeing how people are going out of their way to fuck with people across the web.
Click to expand...

Those suggestions are aready shown on google if you type Han Solo into the search bar. That was quick.
 
I really am amazed at the mixed reactions to Kylo.

One the most interesting, and promising, characters the saga has ever had, with one hell of an actor portraying him. If it weren't for the performances of Ridley, Boyega, Issac and an on form Ford, he would have stolen the show.
 
Occam said:
Reading this thread I'm surprised how well y'all seem to take Han's death. I had no idea it would happen as I avoided all spoilers since episode VII was announced, and it felt like a massive (and unnecessary) downer.
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A guy in my audience literally grabbed at his hair and started reclining back and forth in his seat when Han died. Lol you could see it coming when he started getting close to Rei and then as soon as the bridge scene was set up it was guaranteed to happen.
 
Lol, I wasn't the only one who noticed the duck thing.

bPCYwWH.png
 
Melon Husk said:
I actually don't know. Nevertheless, both wielded the lightsaber quite skillfully. You would think the whiner were actually trained in swordfighting and would wipe the floor with our two newbie heroes.
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Finn is a trained soldier and Rey seems to have developed some formidable melee skills on Jakku.
 
Liquidsnake said:
So who is Rey?
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I just stepped into this article from 2014

http://io9.gizmodo.com/michael-arndts-scrapped-star-wars-story-was-about-luke-1499732754

And there's one more piece of casting rumor: Heat Vision says Abrams is rumored to be searching for a "20-something female actress" who is either mixed-race or black. "The rumor is that Obi-Wan Kenobi had a daughter or granddaughter."
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No matter what Rey is, Luke Jr, Obi-Wan Jr or Jedi Babby That Was A Force Master By Age 5 That Forgot All About It For Reasons, all the answers are dumb.
 
Glass said:
Where does Kylo ren go from here? He can't be redeemed to the light side or in the audience's eyes after what he does.
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He became a very interesting character thanks to killing his father. Finally a true evil sith.

There is no redemption and I would have been very angry if they had taken that route.
 
Melon Husk said:
I've never seen stormtroopers wield melee weapons outside of that one scene and Rey had a stick. It just wasn't plausible they could kick Ben's lily ass.
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Finn didn't, though - that's why he's incapacitated at the end. And Rey only managed to do it by tapping into the Force.
 
http://uproxx.com/movies/2015/05/michael-arndt-star-wars-the-force-awakens/

“We were struggling to come up with a story,” Kasdan, 66, admitted. “There were elements that we would come up with and say, ‘Oh, that’s good! That’s strong!’ But it was not coming together.” With Abrams now part of the development team and the already tight summer 2015 release date looming ever closer, Michael Arndt was having difficulty finishing a script within the necessary time frame. “There was a ton of ideas and outlines, a lot of cards on the wall, a lot of writing on whiteboards,” Abrams said, but no screenplay. With pre-production chores already well under way in London, where much of the film would be shot at Pinewood Studios, Abrams and Kasdan took over the screenwriting process, starting more or less from scratch.
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We were warned, but nobody paid attention.
 
I dont know. Could be anyone. Its not like thinking Kasdan is a good writer is an uncommon or notably remarkable opinion.

Hes not like, the Dolby Atmos of writers or anything.
 
Just saw it, I wasn't a big Star Wars fan but I am now. The theme kicking in when Rey first held the lightsaber was amazing.

The whole story was very neatly put together, very impressed. My favourite Star Wars easily.
 
Just back from seeing it in a proper full imax. Some random thoughts.

Liked it didn't love it. It definitely borrowed far too much from A New Hope. Honestly even not having the initial planet being a barren sand world filled with scavengers etc would have made a bit of a difference. Not having a bigger death star and a similar mode of destroying it would have been a bit better. Honestly what was the First Order's thought process there. We had a pretty decent empire going, until we diverted all our capital and expertise on a massive moon sized superweapon not once but twice then it all came apart. So what we should do now is build an even bigger planet sized superweapon.

The performances and the playfullness of it lifted it above the story which was kind of just there.


I must admit, why the fuck is there still a resistance? I get the First Order is there, but the Republic (and really was the entire Republic fleet in the one system just because?) had a military so what was the purpose of the resistance who were they resisting against?

The other thing which annoyed me was the two second star jump to find Luke at the end, they should have indicated that some time had passed. It was like popping to the shops for some milk, but they had similar issues with travel distance and time throughout the film (something which was also a problem in JJ's Star Trek)
 
Moff said:
the whole plot with the map was a bit weird, wasn't it?
not the idea in theory but how the movie presented it.
I understand all kinds of audiences need to understand that the map needs two parts, but what we got was that BB8's part of the map was like a chunk of about 20% of the whole galaxy, how could they not tell where that would be? that must be millions of known systems, or are we supposed to believe that that BB8s chunk was completely uncharted?
and what activated R2 anyway?
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JJ's mystery box generates MacGuffins.

2227184136_7669e57b1e.jpg


kmag said:
...
I must admit, why the fuck is there still a resistance? I get the First Order is there, but the Republic (and really was the entire Republic fleet in the one system just because?) had a military so what was the purpose of the resistance who were they resisting against?

The other thing which annoyed me was the two second star jump to find Luke at the end, they should have indicated that some time had passed. It was like popping to the shops for some milk, but they had similar issues with travel distance and time throughout the film (something which was also a problem in JJ's Star Trek)
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The difference between Republic and Resistance remained unclear to me aswell.

I agree, a couple of minutes could have been wasted to smell the flowers, so to speak. Literally even: Rey's reaction to landing on a new planet that wasn't the desert she'd ever seen in her life was summed up in one sentence: "I've never seen so much green."
 
kmag said:
Just back from seeing it in a proper full imax. Some random thoughts.

Liked it didn't love it. It definitely borrowed far too much from A New Hope. Honestly even not having the initial planet being a barren sand world filled with scavengers etc would have made a bit of a difference. Not having a bigger death star and a similar mode of destroying it would have been a bit better. Honestly what was the First Order's thought process there. We had a pretty decent empire going, until we diverted all our capital and expertise on a massive moon sized superweapon not once but twice then it all came apart. So what we should do now is build an even bigger planet sized superweapon.

The performances and the playfullness of it lifted it above the story which was kind of just there.


I must admit, why the fuck is there still a resistance? I get the First Order is there, but the Republic (and really was the entire Republic fleet in the one system just because?) had a military so what was the purpose of the resistance who were they resisting against?

The other thing which annoyed me was the two second star jump to find Luke at the end, they should have indicated that some time had passed. It was like popping to the shops for some milk, but they had similar issues with travel distance and time throughout the film (something which was also a problem in JJ's Star Trek)
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the resistance was formed especially to fight the first order
it does leave the question why they did not send the whole republic fleet to fight them, maybe there are other dangers in the galaxy that need their attention and they simply underestimated them. we don't really know how big the first order is anyway and maybe it's just a small fraction of some bigger empire. or is the first order all that's left from the empire? I don't remember.
 
Moff said:
we don't really know how big the first order is anyway and maybe it's just a small fraction of some bigger empire. or is the first order all that's left from the empire? I don't remember.
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I think the "Knights of Ren" mention and the whole Supreme Leader (centralized power) stuff seems to indicate this may only have been a faction of a bigger First Order.
 
kmag said:
The other thing which annoyed me was the two second star jump to find Luke at the end, they should have indicated that some time had passed. It was like popping to the shops for some milk, but they had similar issues with travel distance and time throughout the film (something which was also a problem in JJ's Star Trek)
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yeah, there was a real lack of any transition, the island of calm between the storms. the most perfect probably being the falcon floating away from the star destroyer after it dumps its cargo; a moment of film making perfection.
 
Just finished seeing it 30 minutes ago.

It's good, certainly better than any of the prequel trilogy films [not exactly a huge task, but hey, still counts]. John Boyega's charisma as Finn was pretty great, and I like Rey, part of that only because I like that we now have a female Jedi in the forefront (I'm sure someone's gonna mention Ahsoka from Clone Wars or something similar, but hopefully you get what I mean), which is awesome to see.

It definitely stayed pretty close to fundamental ideas from Ep.4, which good or bad wasn't too overbearing at least, if maybe just a smidge too much of the exact same formula (death star assault, planet blown up, secret something [mcguffin], likable character getting killed off).

Not sure what to think about Kylo Ren, feels like a mix of Prequel trilogy Anakin when the mask is off, coupled with Episode IV Vader when the mask is on. When Rey actually counters his mind-reading attempt, that was pretty great.

Also, when we see the X-Wings appear to help fend off the assault on that forest planet, the musical cue and shot of them hovering over the lake was a pretty awesome visual, definitely shows off the Abrams in parts like that. The Lightsaber fight with Rey and Kylo at the end looked good as well, I appreciate seeing Rey just get kinda vicious with the saber at the end, which would tip off that she has no real training yet. Oh yea, I genuinely thought Finn would be a Jedi as well, but I kinda appreciate that they establish that a lightsaber could potentially be used by anyone, as proven when Finn just fucking shanks that stormtrooper with it.
 
I do not understand the complaints that this film relies on the old movies, I mean of course it does. When you watch a seventh episode of something, you are generally expected to watch the first six....

Much like the old trilogy, family will remain a core theme in the new one. The thing is with family is that you actually have to connect them together....

As a transition from old to new, the plot was outrageously successful. We saw respectful handling of old characters and the excellent introduction of new ones.
 
kmag said:
Just back from seeing it in a proper full imax. Some random thoughts.

Liked it didn't love it. It definitely borrowed far too much from A New Hope. Honestly even not having the initial planet being a barren sand world filled with scavengers etc would have made a bit of a difference. Not having a bigger death star and a similar mode of destroying it would have been a bit better. Honestly what was the First Order's thought process there. We had a pretty decent empire going, until we diverted all our capital and expertise on a massive moon sized superweapon not once but twice then it all came apart. So what we should do now is build an even bigger planet sized superweapon.

The performances and the playfullness of it lifted it above the story which was kind of just there.


I must admit, why the fuck is there still a resistance? I get the First Order is there, but the Republic (and really was the entire Republic fleet in the one system just because?) had a military so what was the purpose of the resistance who were they resisting against?

The other thing which annoyed me was the two second star jump to find Luke at the end, they should have indicated that some time had passed. It was like popping to the shops for some milk, but they had similar issues with travel distance and time throughout the film (something which was also a problem in JJ's Star Trek)
Click to expand...

didnt the Hux speech mention something that the Republic was lieing about or hidding their support of the Resistance. Meaning that the Republic was on the outside in support of The First Order, or at least Neutral to the First Order. Probably as they didnt have a big enough army to fight them openly.
 
about rey's parentage

maz says she knows her eyes. that implies she knows her parents.
now the question is does only maz know her parents or is it someone the audience knows as well? I think it's defnitely the latter. and that doesn't really leave a lot of options does it? the obvious choice is luke, but what matters the most in the end is how they find a reasonable explanation why her parents would leave her completely unattended on her own as a little kid.
I can't imagine anything reasonable that would explain this, unless she was left with someone and ran away.
i am really wondering what they come up with to explain that.
 
Tyreese Victoria said:
I do not understand the complaints that this film relies on the old movies, I mean of course it does. When you watch a seventh episode of something, you are generally expected to watch the first six....

Much like the old trilogy, family will remain a core theme in the new one. The thing is with family is that you actually have to connect them together....

As a transition from old to new, the plot was outrageously successful. We saw respectful handling of old characters and the excellent introduction of new ones.
Click to expand...

It's funny because the prequel trilogy did the exact same thing, but was incredibly self-important with it there, which honestly I thought was lame, Ep VII maybe had one too many "hey look, it's [X]" shots, but eh, it worked for me.
 
Tyreese Victoria said:
I do not understand the complaints that this film relies on the old movies, I mean of course it does. When you watch a seventh episode of something, you are generally expected to watch the first six.....
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people are not saying it relies too much on the old movies.
as a matter of fact it hardly relies on them at all.
people are complaining that there are too many very similiar settings, action sequences, plots and callbacks and quotes. not only was that not necessary, it really seemed uninspired.
 
When we were on the way to the cinema a group that apprently just came back from a screening passed us by and dropped the biggest spoiler of the movie, kind of completely ruining the scene for me forever.

As for the movie, I am still not sure if it was great or just dumb. The link Jett posted would certainly kind of explain some things (if true then still hats off to JJ for what he was able to pull off).
 
is everyone assuming that Rey is going to train with Luke now and Ren is going to learn from Snoke, and then they'll duel again? Because that sounds extremely formulaic. Luke has to be better than being just another Obi Wan or Yoda

and remind me, did Rey mention anything about having piloted a spaceship before?
 
Moff said:
about rey's parentage

maz says she knows her eyes. that implies she knows her parents.
now the question is does only maz know her parents or is it someone the audience knows as well? I think it's defnitely the latter. and that doesn't really leave a lot of options does it? the obvious choice is luke, but what matters the most in the end is how they find a reasonable explanation why her parents would leave her completely unattended on her own as a little kid.
I can't imagine anything reasonable that would explain this, unless she was left with someone and ran away.
i am really wondering what they come up with to explain that.
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I need to see that scene again but she said the same thing about Finns eyes so maybe it was more about her character than parentage. You'd think she'd pull Han to the side and say hey that's your friends daughter standing right there if she knew.
 
Moff said:
about rey's parentage

maz says she knows her eyes. that implies she knows her parents.
now the question is does only maz know her parents or is it someone the audience knows as well? I think it's defnitely the latter. and that doesn't really leave a lot of options does it? the obvious choice is luke, but what matters the most in the end is how they find a reasonable explanation why her parents would leave her completely unattended on her own as a little kid.
I can't imagine anything reasonable that would explain this, unless she was left with someone and ran away.
i am really wondering what they come up with to explain that.
Click to expand...

correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't she say the "I know your eyes" to Finn after turning the zooms on and getting all up in his face? I had the feeling she was implying he was cowardly.
 
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