[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.

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Regarding Snoke's additional dialogue in the novelization, it's fascinating to speculate on how he even knows what went down in the throne room at the end of Jedi. Two of the three people involved in that died before they could tell anyone about it. That means Luke told someone... and my guess is it wasn't Snoke directly.
 
Maybe I'm misreading critiques as negative reviews, or I'm just reading more negative posts but from what I've read:
  1. several people dislike Rey
  2. Kylo Ren isn't menacing enough
  3. the fan service is too much

I loved the film, and I'm notorious amongst people I know for being tough on movies. I'm really surprised that so many dislike it.
Thought I'd reply since I just dumped a negative comment. :)

  1. I liked Rey a lot. (Though her level of force use pretty much shat on everything we know bout training Jedi from the previous six films. Might be explained in future films.)
  2. I thought Ren was generally good, though the scene with him and Solo was very weak/predictable. (If anything, his Force powers are too bad-ass compared to previous Sith, but I guess that'll be explained with Snoke in future films)
  3. Fan service was fine (excepting that essentially the whole movie was a retread of EPIV, which was "fan service" to a level which dimished this movie substantially, but I don't think that's what you meant.)
 
People expected that Phasma was in her position due to badassery. Little did they suspect that she was actually the Stormtroopers' den mother.
 
I seriously hope people don't use genders as a quantifier for writing, i.e. "it's mary sue because it's a female doing things"
 
Reys whole arc was letting go of her family and embracing the force. When she 'let it in' with the fight against kylo ren I saw it as she basically was accepting they're gone and fully taking this new direction in her life. Yeah she learned pretty quickly but i thought the character was fine and will probably be fleshed out in the next movie.
 
New one from Landis this time on Kylo Ren, got to admit, this would have been better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdEIzRUos4g

This makes no fucking sense in the context of the film. I like that the heroes and villains are all essentially starting from zero (Kylo with a slight lead). Kylo cant be all powerful right off the bat, taking them both on and toying with them. Hes a bit more powerful than either of them, but not Darth Vader/Palpatine powerful....yet. And they reiterate that quite a few times during the film. Also regretting that Solo decision right away is dumb and makes his turn to the darkside seem disingenuous.

This video is bad.
 
You people are crazy. Unmasked Ren was an amazing character. Once he took off the helmet I wanted it to stay off. How about don't focus on his looks and pay attention to the fact that he fucking killed the role.
 
So do we just find it easier to nitpick certain things than talk about stuff we liked? The car ride home from the theater with my friends was the exact same way even though we all loved the movie, so I'm genuinely curious.

Reading this thread it feels like Gaf really did not like the movie, is this going to be another MGSV, Avatar, Jurrassic World type of thing on Gaf?

I understand the nitpicks. But I had a fucking blast. And it was a dream come true to be watching a brand new Star Wars movie.

So, what were actual opinions around here? Love? Hate? Disappointment?

Love love love, mostly.

Some people just get off on beng negative on *something*. I have some issues with the movie, but that's not what I think about.

I just saw it a second time and I think it's the the movie's credit that there isn't anything that makes less sense on a second viewing, and a couple things that make a little more sense. Like Kylo Ren takes Rey instead of reading her mind more thoroughly on the spot, because he gets interrupted by the Resistance's arrival and other troopers teling him they have to go.
 
Thought I'd reply since I just dumped a negative comment. :)

  1. I liked Rey a lot. (Though her level of force use pretty much shat on everything we know bout training Jedi from the previous six films. Might be explained in future films.)
  2. I thought Ren was generally good, though the scene with him and Solo was very weak/predictable. (If anything, his Force powers are too bad-ass compared to previous Sith, but I guess that'll be explained with Snoke in future films)
  3. Fan service was fine (excepting that essentially the whole movie was a retread of EPIV, which was "fan service" to a level which dimished this movie substantially, but I don't think that's what you meant.)

I don't have a problem with stories being repeated, as there are so many archetypes out there and the "Hero's Journey" is one that Episode IV follows. I thought the differences between this Episode VII and Episode IV were just enough to keep me interested. Yes, the movie was predictable, but that didn't hurt my enjoyment of it.
 
You people are crazy. Unmasked Ren was an amazing character. Once he took off the helmet I wanted it to stay off. How about don't focus on his looks and pay attention to the fact that he fucking killed the role.

People are dumb and want him to "look evil" or have scars or red eyes or whatever.

He was amazing in the bridge scene and when he was mind battling with Rey.
 
The intention behind Rey's character is good, but I think the way they tried to subvert the trope is wrong. Creating a strong female character doesn't mean she has to be perfect in every way.
Or if you want to make her perfect, provide reasoning on why she has that perfection.

As it is, this movie gives neither.
 
Rey vs Ren fight should have been more of a run for your life sequence then a clash between force users. Maybe have it start as a 1v1 equal fight because Ren is cocky with her newly aquire force skills, but it should have quickly regressed to a "oh shit, I'm in over my head, let me get the fuck out of here".

1. With this squence, Ren wouldn't look like a total chump

2. Ren would actually have a reason to go to Luke Skywalker

3. No Mary Su

I think Disney Exe had their hand in the ending.
 
Star Wars Episode 7: The Force Awakens

Felt like that old high school crush you lusted over and thought was perfect only to see her again older at some shopping mall but now thinking to yourself how could you have been so deluded and what you saw in her. While technically a good film in all honesty I'd rather watch the prequels any day of the week.

Some incoherent thoughts and rambling on the film:

- easily the worst soundtrack of all the films. I can't remember a single notable track apart from the main theme from original.
- most of the film was like a rehash of Epsiode 4 predictable as hell, come on another Death Star!? (the prequels while shitty at least tried to be original)
- The cinemtaogrpahy while very good technically did not feel like Star Wars at all, more like someone trying to imitate it. Like Joss Whedons Firefly dressed in Star Wars clothing.
- speaking of Whedon, I hated the quips/jokes by the characters. Yes Star Wars has humour but not almost fourth wall breaking ones or wink and you get it type jokes.
- Kylo Ren was a dementor reject/whiney little bitch. They tried to give him little traits with the chest thumping and brooding emo good looking face but it just felt like they were trying too hard.
- Han Solo was his dad? Oh gosh who would have predicted that? Oh and wait he dies too *Gasp* these Hollywood writers don't get paid enough! What a crap way to kill off one of the most recognisable characters in cinema history. So telegraphed as well.
- the old cast were there just for awful fan service. Leia had too much Botox and couldn't express any emotion. Han looked like a shrivelled old dog waiting to be put out of his misery. Cheiwe didn't give a fuck, he's got a new young sexy partner to go adventuring with. Venom C3PO has become a demon and R2D2 is last years model being cast aside by the cute younger brother BB Gun.
- the new Sith Lord looked like promethues/Hobbit cgi Orc. Intimidating as a tree.
- Action scenes felt rushed. Poe was just there to look good and be a bro for Finn.
- Rey kept making funny faces everytime she did any action.
- probably the worst ending to a Star Wars film. Really? On a cliff?

Fuck man, I know George Lucas gets hate but really at least it felt like Star Wars to me. This just feels like a cheap 2D cut out verison with flashy lights. Nostalgia be damned.
 
You people are crazy. Unmasked Ren was an amazing character. Once he took off the helmet I wanted it to stay off. How about don't focus on his looks and pay attention to the fact that he fucking killed the role.

He's easily the most interesting thing in the movie.
But I do wonder what he planned to do if he found Luke. Maybe Starkiller Base was built primarily as an anti-Luke weapon?
 
Star Wars Episode 7: The Force Awakens

Felt like that old high school crush you lusted over and thought was perfect only to see her again older at some shopping mall but now thinking to yourself how could you have been so deluded and what you saw in her. While technically a good film in all honesty I'd rather watch the prequels any day of the week.

Some incoherent thoughts and rambling on the film:
- easily the worst soundtrack of all the films. I can't remember a single notable track apart from the main theme from original.
- most of the film was like a rehash of Epsiode 4 predictable as hell, come on another Star Destoryer!? (the prequels while shitty at least tried to be original)
- The cinemtaogrpahy while very good technically did not feel like Star Wars at all, more like someone trying to imitate it. Like Joss Whedons Firefly dressed in Star Wars clothing.
- speaking of Whedon, I hated the quips/jokes by the characters. Yes Star Wars has humour but not almost fourth wall breaking ones or wink and you get it type jokes.
- Kylo Ren was a whiney little bitch. They tried to give him little traits with the chest thumping and brooding emo good looking face but it just felt like they were trying too hard.
- Hand Solo was his dad? Oh gosh who would have predicted that? Oh and wait he dies too *Gasp* these Hollywood writers don't get paid enough! What a crap way to kill off one of the most recognisable characters in cinema history. So telegraphed as well.
- the old cast were there just for awful fan service. Leia had too much Botox and couldn't express any emotion. Han looked like a shrivelled old dog waiting to be put out of his misery. Cheiwe didn't give a fuck, he's got a new young sexy partner to go adventuring with. Venom C3PO has become a demon and R2D2 is last years model being cast aside by the cute younger brother BB Gun.
- the new Sith Lord looked like promethues/Hobbit cgi Orc. Intimidating as a tree.
- Action scenes felt rushed. Poe was just there to look good and be a bro for Finn.
- Rey kept making funny faces everytime she did any action.
- probably the worst ending to a Star Wars film. Really? On a cliff?

Fuck man, I know George Lucas gets hate but really at least it felt like Star Wars to me. This just feels like a cheap 2D cut out verison with flashy lights. Nostalgia be damned.

Are you sure you didn't watch sisters ?
 
Regarding Snoke's additional dialogue in the novelization, it's fascinating to speculate on how he even knows what went down in the throne room at the end of Jedi. Two of the three people involved in that died before they could tell anyone about it. That means Luke told someone... and my guess is it wasn't Snoke directly.

He probably felt it through the Force, or was watching it as it happened (also through the Force). The precedent is set for that, as Yoda watched Luke from Dagobah through the Force. Luke too has probably been watching many things in his exile.
 
I really like the idea of her getting messed up 8 ways to sunday by a Knights of Ren handicap match for the next film.

tables ladders and sabres.

she'll get whooped. hopefully they all show up too. was pretty annoyed how they only teased that baller shot of them all in the rain.
 
I also just want to say that regardless of whether Cpt. Phasma is in the future films her character has already been ruined as any type of badass by this film. I honestly don't care if she's alive. It's like they were setting her up as the new Boba Fett but forgot that Boba Fett was an actual effective badass when we first met him.

I'll agree that what they did with Phasma was weird and too convenient. But I was actually thinking about the Boba Fett angle – having compromised the shields, out of shame she may decide to go rogue and become single-minded in her desire to exact revenge on Finn in the next film.
 
Honestly, I am so pleased the way Finn turned out and that he got so much screen time and so much to do. The only thing I didn't like was the misdirection with the lightsaber.

A leading black Stormtrooper that defects and uses a lightsaber is just too damn cool. If he doesn't turn out to be Force sensitive I'mma be disappointed.
I wanted more. I thought him getting sidelined to the cliche of second fiddle with a lot of heart was kind of lame. And he did seem like a bit of a punk. He was constantly getting schooled/needing help 9 times out of 10. I wanted both him and Ray to stand strong a la mad max and furiosa. He was literally the opposite of standing strong by the end of it. I know Rey is the hero and I <3 her but I would have liked to see them both elevated but it's clear he was second fiddle.
 
Wonder if they'll do flashbacks in a Star Wars movie. As in, whole sequences taking place in the past. Usually it follows a steady passage of time, with a few jumps and gaps here and there.
 
Slight aside, is the novelization worth buying? Does it add enough additional information to make it worth it? The Amazon reviews are conflicting on this one.
 
This makes no fucking sense in the context of the film. I like that the heroes and villains are all essentially starting from zero (Kylo with a slight lead). Kylo cant be all powerful right off the bat, taking them both on and toying with them. Hes a bit more powerful than either of them, but not Darth Vader/Palpatine powerful....yet. And they reiterate that quite a few times during the film. Also regretting that Solo decision right away is dumb and makes his turn to the darkside seem disingenuous.

This video is bad.
But no one is saying he's all powerful though. Just that to Rey and Finn he seems that way because have not encountered someone like him. They also have no training while he does. I don't think Max was saying that he regretted killing his father but a part of him and it manifests as cockiness.
 
Rey vs Ren fight should have been more of a run for your life sequence then a clash between force users. Maybe have it start as a 1v1 equal fight because Ren is cocky with her newly aquire force skills, but it should have quickly regressed to a "oh shit, I'm in over my head, let me get the fuck out of here".

1. With this squence, Ren wouldn't look like a total chump

2. Ren would actually have a reason to go to Luke Skywalker

3. No Mary Su

I think Disney Exe had their hand in the ending.

It was clear that Rey had infinitely more power than Ren. Ren only has a low level of power due to being a Solo but like Anakin the force must be off the charts with Rey. Ren couldn't even handle the ships commander unlike Vader how could be handle someone with more power than him, he couldn't even mind mend her when she was in the chair
 
Man now i want a new jedi academy game set before the movie where you're training under Luke and the game ends with kylo ren killing you as you try to hold him off so luke can escape.

That or a book following one of his new apprentices that does the same thing.
 
Man now i want a new jedi academy game set before the movie where you're training under Luke and the game ends with kylo ren killing you as you try to hold him off so luke can escape.

That or a book following one of his new apprentices that does the same thing.

Cancel Rebels and make this a new TV series.
 
The Prequels also went out of their way to explain everything with dialogue. From the minutia of Trade Agreement contracts to

"Oh man Obi Wan, that was a totally dangerous mission that I had to save your butt on"
--"Not as dangerous as that OTHER mission you had to save my butt on Anakin"
"I know, right Obi Wan? We're such the best of friends that have been through so much danger"
--"Yup. We're SUPER close. Like BROTHERS. Seriously, trust us on this Audience!"

The acting and lines in that elevator scene from AoTC's intro with Obi Wan and Anakin talking about how Anakin rescued Obi Wan after he fell into a "nest of Gundarks" were terrrrrrible and so awkward.

Anakin: "It was I who rescued you from that nightmare, master."

Obi Wan (odd pause, followed by uncomfortable, really weird laugh):

"Mmm hmmm hmmm haha Oh yes."
 
Slight aside, is the novelization worth buying? Does it add enough additional information to make it worth it? The Amazon reviews are conflicting on this one.

it adds a little bit. Not nearly as much as the Revenge of the Sith novelization did. Honestly if you've read the last 10 pages of this thread you will see everything that it adds.
 
People don't like Rey?
WTF how can anyone not like Rey



What in the hell.

I don't hate her but at this point i'm just not really invested in her arc. Max Landis kinda pointed out her as a "Mary sue". I don't necessarily 100% agree but I see where he's coming from

To copy paste my comment on his vid

I kinda agree. I don't know if i'd go as far as Mary Sue but it did feel like there was one or two many skills in her arsenal which was too much. And it's not even the force stuff that bothers me, i was fine with that actually. Because I don't really see the force as a liner "power level" progression like in video games or anime but just a mix of space magic mixed with state of mind which allows for small "miracles". It's why I wasn't miffed when she beats Ren, as Ren was in a bad place, had suffered a wound and is still a bit wet behind the ears (also seems unstable in general). The force has been a deus ex machina since the old trilogy anyway so yeah

However her instant piloting skills and knowledge of the falcon for me was like "eeehh...." Like THAT felt forced to me. It was the one skill too many that, in retrospect, makes me think like yeah she had all the tools in her box, depriving others maybe to shine. Ironically Finn and Ren get shafted a lot more, they have failings and personality quirks and they were my favourite because of that, since they have an arc that's going to get pushed and i'm invested in them. My main and only motivation for Rey is that she's the only link to Luke Skywalker so far (yet another thing she gets)&#65279;

I find her "cool" in a very superficial way but there's very little tension surrounding her, yet she seems to carry the whole thing with very little to no setbacks. She's just a bit too good at everything she does and I can't really define her like I can Ren or Finn or the rest of the cast. She's kinda just...generic hero strong woman who don't need no man, times 3

While I do like the fight between her and Ren, i almost kinda regret it didn't end on a stalemate or even like a slight advantage/stolen victory for Ren (like he "beats" her but without wounding her, or somet stuff like that, before having to run because goodbye planet and also because he doesn't want to test his luck again).
 
Would've been more interesting for sure.

He's also on the money about Rey being a Mary Sue. People giving him hate are pretty much idiots.

Sorta like Luke, farmboy who just happens to be an ace pilot *and* awesomely full of potential mystic power?

At least in Rey's case, there's some reasons given why she knows her way around a ship (scavenging for years) and can fight (been on her own for years in a hostile environment).
 
It was clear that Rey had infinitely more power than Ren. Ren only has a low level of power due to being a Solo but like Anakin the force must be off the charts with Rey. Ren couldn't even handle the ships commander unlike Vader how could be handle someone with more power than him

The fuck am I watching Dragonball Z? This is the type of shit that ruins Star Wars.

A battle shouldn't be determined by the "power levels" of the competitors, fuck do I need to bring up that portion of the Plinkett AOTC review? The Ren fight was fine right up until Rey tapped into the Force and downloaded "Advanced Saber Techniques #67 w/ Commentary from Luke Skywalker."
 
I don't hate her but at this point i'm just not really invested in her arc. Max Landis kinda pointed out her as a "Mary sue". I don't necessarily 100% agree but I see where he's coming from

To copy paste my comment on his vid



I find her "cool" in a very superficial way but there's very little tension surrounding her, yet she seems to carry the whole thing with very little to no setbacks. She's just a bit too good at everything she does and I can't really define her like I can Ren or Finn or the rest of the cast. She's kinda just...generic hero strong woman who don't need no man, times 3

Max landis has done himself no good after Chronicle in being any form of authority of saying anything about characters. His opinion is of no value , lower than any gaffer
 
Star Wars Episode 7: The Force Awakens
I'd rather watch the prequels any day of the week.

Fuck man, I know George Lucas gets hate but really at least it felt like Star Wars to me. This just feels like a cheap 2D cut out verison with flashy lights. Nostalgia be damned.
RG0BS1U.gif
 
Eh. I still feel like the injuries Ren took from Chewy are understated. Two scenes were deliberately added to reestablish the strength of the Bowcaster. Ren takes a torso shot and is bleeding out during the final fight. He was not anywhere close to 100%. He was weakened physically and mentally. I really believe that her power up just flipped the scale on an already weak Ren.
 
That falcon reveal was amazing.

"Should we take that?!"

"No it's a pile of junk!"

*BOOM*

"Okay let's take the junk!"

Pans to the falcon. An excellent reference to the OT while also working as a comedic bit. One example of excellent writing in the movie.

I loved that. Once it panned and we saw it, people in the theater cheered. I turned to my friend and was like "HOW DARE SHE CALL THAT BEAUTY JUNK?!"(don't worry I'm not the type of person that comments on every little thing, it was just time :P).

Also I thought BB-8 was giving the thumbs up back, he seemed to trust Finn more once he found out that he tried to rescue his owner. Also BB-8 shocking him was hilarious, reminded me of R2D2 shocking the dude when he ordered them to stop, then the guy kicks R2 over.

When they started playing the opening theme though...omg the eruption of cheers, claps, and pure joy that ensured.

You people are crazy. Unmasked Ren was an amazing character. Once he took off the helmet I wanted it to stay off. How about don't focus on his looks and pay attention to the fact that he fucking killed the role.

Well, I did love his acting, and the way he portrayed the character as absolutely outstanding. Just he doesn't look like an evil kinda dude. On the flip side I felt the actor that played Anakin fit the role for looks, but his acting was shit tier and didn't fit the character at all. Maybe I'm just crazy, I wouldn't doubt it.

Star Wars Episode 7: The Force Awakens

Felt like that old high school crush you lusted over and thought was perfect only to see her again older at some shopping mall but now thinking to yourself how could you have been so deluded and what you saw in her. While technically a good film in all honesty I'd rather watch the prequels any day of the week.

Some incoherent thoughts and rambling on the film:
- easily the worst soundtrack of all the films. I can't remember a single notable track apart from the main theme from original.
- most of the film was like a rehash of Epsiode 4 predictable as hell, come on another Star Star!? (the prequels while shitty at least tried to be original)
- The cinemtaogrpahy while very good technically did not feel like Star Wars at all, more like someone trying to imitate it. Like Joss Whedons Firefly dressed in Star Wars clothing.
- speaking of Whedon, I hated the quips/jokes by the characters. Yes Star Wars has humour but not almost fourth wall breaking ones or wink and you get it type jokes.
- Kylo Ren was a dementor reject/whiney little bitch. They tried to give him little traits with the chest thumping and brooding emo good looking face but it just felt like they were trying too hard.
- Han Solo was his dad? Oh gosh who would have predicted that? Oh and wait he dies too *Gasp* these Hollywood writers don't get paid enough! What a crap way to kill off one of the most recognisable characters in cinema history. So telegraphed as well.
- the old cast were there just for awful fan service. Leia had too much Botox and couldn't express any emotion. Han looked like a shrivelled old dog waiting to be put out of his misery. Cheiwe didn't give a fuck, he's got a new young sexy partner to go adventuring with. Venom C3PO has become a demon and R2D2 is last years model being cast aside by the cute younger brother BB Gun.
- the new Sith Lord looked like promethues/Hobbit cgi Orc. Intimidating as a tree.
- Action scenes felt rushed. Poe was just there to look good and be a bro for Finn.
- Rey kept making funny faces everytime she did any action.
- probably the worst ending to a Star Wars film. Really? On a cliff?

- Yeah the soundtrack wasn't the greatest I agree.
- To be fair it was J.J Abrams first attempt at it, so he took a very safe route with it. It's like if the story of IV met the CGI of the prequels tbh. I'm not gonna hate on him too much for that though. I rather him test the waters then take a huge risk and be hated completely.
- Well yeah different director :P.
- I kinda liked the humour. Like Han being subtle about Ray climbing the wall, and the exchange between Finn and Han about the force.
- Eh he's kinda like his grandfather and his uncle, no? I guess it runs in the family.
- Predictability doesn't make it less interesting. And Him killing Han got spoiled for me so not really sure if I could say I saw it coming or not.
- I wouldn't say that. They used them to let Finn and Ray know that Luke, The Jedi, and The Force aren't myths. If you have Han, you have to have Chewie and Leia. Also R2D2 is the greatest droid ever, you can't neglect him. And C3PO has to be there if R2 is.
- He kinda looked like Smegle from LOTR to me :P.
- Yeah, that I can agree to as well. Also way too many aircrafts all flying all over the place, felt cluttered.
- I don't really recall much of her facial expressions
- Would you say it...ended on a CLIFFhanger? (I'ma go kill myself for that now.)
 
Max landis has done himself no good after Chronicle in being any form of authority of saying anything about characters. His opinion is of no value , lower than any gaffer

that's just the lazy "if you can do it better then you do it" argument making criticism of anything meaningless.

his scripts are basura, but i think he makes some good points on Rey
 
The fuck am I watching Dragonball Z? This is the type of shit that ruins Star Wars.

A battle shouldn't be determined by the "power levels" of the competitors, fuck do I need to bring up that portion of the Plinkett AOTC review? The Ren fight was fine right up until Rey tapped into the Force and downloaded "Advanced Saber Techniques #67 w/ Commentary from Luke Skywalker."

Rey demonstrated she had more of force in her than Ren when he tried to mind force her and she didn't even realize her power until that moment. He needs more training than her. This is why snoke is more interested in her now.
 
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