Media Create Sales: Week 51, 2015 (Dec 14 - Dec 20)

In regards to the NX version of DQXI I'm almost tempted to say the mere existence of it implies that NX will be out before or close to the release of the game. I don't think Square Enix is really into the late port thing, the only example I can think of is Star Ocean 4 and that was special circumstances.
 
Oregano said:
In regards to the NX version of DQXI I'm almost tempted to say the mere existence of it implies that NX will be out before or close to the release of the game. I don't think Square Enix is really into the late port thing, the only example I can think of is Star Ocean 4 and that was special circumstances.
Click to expand...

Dragon Quest X has had multiple late ports.
 
I think a small reason for #FE's reception would also be the backlash it received because of how it was teased in 2013. Most of the audience expected one thing (an actual cross-over, which is even what the devs had in mind initially), but what resurfaced this year was something completely different. The overall opinion I was seeing of the game from Japanese comments was always negative and mocking.
 
Maniel said:
My point was that they may lose a small amount of sales by delaying the 3ds version to launch at the same time as the ps4, but they will gain more buyers for their other games that won't be coming out on 3ds.
Click to expand...

There is no guarantee of that. While the 3DS is not replaced, it's better for them to release it as soon as possible, and then promote the other versions.
People wanting the console version will always get it, double dip or not, and people wanting DQXI but not having a PS4 won't necessarily buy one when other versions of the game exist, especially if they just have to wait a few weeks. They could also perfectly buy a PS4 + the game, then resell them, thus defeating the strategy you've talked about.

As said before, they will have to push FFXV if they want people to buy a PS4 in Japan for their games, not DQXI.

Oregano said:
In regards to the NX version of DQXI I'm almost tempted to say the mere existence of it implies that NX will be out before or close to the release of the game. I don't think Square Enix is really into the late port thing, the only example I can think of is Star Ocean 4 and that was special circumstances.
Click to expand...

Spiegel said:
Dragon Quest X has had multiple late ports.
Click to expand...

Was gonna say DQX as well, but this is a special case, as it's an MMO. It's a bit comparable to MH Frontier.
 
FluxWaveZ said:
I think a small reason for #FE's reception would also be the backlash it received because of how it was teased in 2013. Most of the audience expected one thing (an actual cross-over, which is even what the devs had in mind initially), but what resurfaced this year was something completely different. The overall opinion I was seeing of the game from Japanese comments was always negative and mocking.
Click to expand...
I feel the core issue here though is that the people who own a Wii U don't see it as a game they want to buy.

If Nintendo teased a new Mario X Kirby game in a way that made everyone convinced it was a 2D platformer where you played Kirby in Mario worlds and it turned out it was a 3D platformer where you played Mario with some light Kirby thematic elements, that strikes me as something that would still sell, even if there was a number of upset Kirby fans.
 
There is lots of reasons really. Audience mismatch, the few RPGs the console got were really different than this, the inital revelation ans the final product are nothing alike and the fe connection is quite small at best, so even if there is an fire emblem audience on the console (which is not even a lock) they might not be interested on this game... Also, nintendo didnt even try to market the game in Japan, and considering its a new IP unlike something like xenoblade...

Its a shame. Looks like a great game to me, but its aestethics can keep some people away and i understand. People say the wiiu is a failed console and all and that's not a lie, having some games working hard to pass the 100k barrier, but when a game like this fail so bad, there is much more problems with it than just "its the wiiu". I guess its the same thing that happened with w101.
 
FluxWaveZ said:
I think a small reason for #FE's reception would also be the backlash it received because of how it was teased in 2013. Most of the audience expected one thing (an actual cross-over, which is even what the devs had in mind initially), but what resurfaced this year was something completely different. The overall opinion I was seeing of the game from Japanese comments was always negative and mocking.
Click to expand...

Publishers need to stop revealing games so early in development.
 
The idea of that January Direct was to unveil two-thirds of their future line-up in an effort to build confidence in the platform.

Without third party support that doesn't actually work though.
 
FluxWaveZ said:
I think a small reason for #FE's reception would also be the backlash it received because of how it was teased in 2013. Most of the audience expected one thing (an actual cross-over, which is even what the devs had in mind initially), but what resurfaced this year was something completely different. The overall opinion I was seeing of the game from Japanese comments was always negative and mocking.
Click to expand...

It's not just about it being different from expectations, it's about the final form it took basically erasing the point of using established franchises for it in the first place. Aside from the complete removal of the SMT brand, at least from a marketing standpoint (although there are still some elements), even the FE content is changed to the point of losing recognizability in any relevant way, with the character designs, character choices themselves and their role being very different from what one would expect (and also low in number. In spite of having characters from two games, there are less FE characters in #FE than in either Awakening or FE1).
 
Oregano said:
Oh wait I just remembered Square Enix ported FFX/X-2 Remaster to PS4. They totally are doing the late port thing.
Click to expand...
If we go outside Japan they have a sea of late PC ports and things like Deus Ex.

I just don't think there's been many incidents where a late port made sense so far in Japan.
 
Kid Ying said:
There is lots of reasons really. Audience mismatch, the few RPGs the console got were really different than this, the inital revelation ans the final product are nothing alike and the fe connection is quite small at best, so even if there is an fire emblem audience on the console (which is not even a lock) they might not be interested on this game... Also, nintendo didnt even try to market the game in Japan, and considering its a new IP unlike something like xenoblade...
Click to expand...

I can't speak to real world advertising, but a bundle, LE, tonnes of trailers, and wall-to-wall Famitsu coverage (something insane like 15 pages this week) sure sounds like a push to me.
 
Oregano said:
Oh wait I just remembered Square Enix ported FFX/X-2 Remaster to PS4. They totally are doing the late port thing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, all of the FF games on PS4 are old ports.

FF7
FFX HD
FFX-2 HD
A Realm Reborn
Type-0 HD

World of Final Fantasy will be the PS4's first FF game that wasnt a late port.
 
Nirolak said:
If we go outside Japan they have a sea of late PC ports and things like Deus Ex.

I just don't think there's been many incidents where a late port made sense so far in Japan.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was really thinking dedicated systems and in Japan.

Even then I was probably wrong considering FF3 PSP is a thing!

EDIT:
ArkhamFantasy said:
Yeah, all of the FF games on PS4 are old ports.

FF7
FFX HD
FFX-2 HD
A Realm Reborn
Type-0 HD

World of Final Fantasy will be the PS4's first FF game that wasnt a late port.
Click to expand...

I was thinking more of contemporary products so FFX/X-2 going PS3/Vita->PS4 would be an example but not FFX going PS2->PS3/Vita if you know what I mean?
 
Nirolak said:
I feel the core issue here though is that the people who own a Wii U don't see it as a game they want to buy.

If Nintendo teased a new Mario X Kirby game in a way that made everyone convinced it was a 2D platformer where you played Kirby in Mario worlds and it turned out it was a 3D platformer where you played Mario with some light Kirby thematic elements, that strikes me as something that would still sell, even if there was a number of upset Kirby fans.
Click to expand...

Definitely, I'm not sure that the tease reveal and the whiplash of reactions when it was then re-revealed in April 1, 2015 would have that much of an impact on sales.

Fundamentally, I've seen a fair number of people say "It went from a must-buy to a game I wanted nothing to do with," and the cross-over that it was first promoted as would have been far more successful.

NeonZ said:
It's not just about it being different from expectations, it's about the final form it took basically erasing the point of using established franchises for it in the first place. Aside from the complete removal of the SMT brand, at least from a marketing standpoint (although there are still some elements), even the FE content is changed to the point of losing recognizability in any relevant way, with the character designs, character choices themselves and their role being very different from what one would expect (and also low in number. In spite of having characters from two games, there are less FE characters in #FE than in either Awakening or FE1).
Click to expand...

That's basically what I mean: the dissonance between expectations and reality was very strong. If they hadn't ever promoted it as "SMTxFE" and instead went for "Atlus x FE" like they have been doing in recent marketing efforts, they would have at least avoided a big part of that backlash. There's still not a ton of Fire Emblem in it, but there's enough for it to have been understandable as a different approach to the IP.

Takao said:
I can't speak to real world advertising, but a bundle, LE, tonnes of trailers, and wall-to-wall Famitsu coverage (something insane like 15 pages this week) sure sounds like a push to me.
Click to expand...

They even announced a concert for the game in May 2016 super early. Not sure lack of advertising was the issue here.
 
Eolz said:
There is no guarantee of that. While the 3DS is not replaced, it's better for them to release it as soon as possible, and then promote the other versions.
People wanting the console version will always get it, double dip or not, and people wanting DQXI but not having a PS4 won't necessarily buy one when other versions of the game exist, especially if they just have to wait a few weeks. They could also perfectly buy a PS4 + the game, then resell them, thus defeating the strategy you've talked about.

As said before, they will have to push FFXV if they want people to buy a PS4 in Japan for their games, not DQXI.
Click to expand...
People who don't want a ps4 wouldn't have to buy one if they don't want it. It would be much cheaper for them get a 3ds if they only want to play DQXI. I do not think that these people buying and reselling wouldn't make a huge difference in sales anyway.

Let's take another huge franchise that had a late release on an old system, Pokemon. Black and White 2 were released on the ds 5 months after the 3ds was released. By the end of 2012, they sold about 2.9 million copies according to famitsu and ended up selling more than either Emerald or Platinum. If DQXI releases late in the 3ds's life, it will still sell if it's a good game, but if they delay the ps4 version, many people may decide that they are content with the handheld version. Square may decide that a simultaneous release is worth it.

By the way, I do think there is a good possibility that Square may very well decide to release the 3ds version first, I'm just trying to justify why they wouldn't.

Edit: Looking at your post again it seems you've misunderstood what I was saying. I advocated simultaneous release, not delaying the 3ds version to later than the ps4.
 
FluxWaveZ said:
Definitely, I'm not sure that the tease reveal and the whiplash of reactions when it was then re-revealed in April 1, 2015 would have that much of an impact on sales.

Fundamentally, I've seen a fair number of people say "It went from a must-buy to a game I wanted nothing to do with," and the cross-over that it was first promoted as would have been far more successful.



That's basically what I mean: the dissonance between expectations and reality was very strong. If they hadn't ever promoted it as "SMTxFE" and instead went for "Atlus x FE" like they have been doing in recent marketing efforts, they would have at least avoided a big part of that backlash. There's still not a ton of Fire Emblem in it, but there's enough for it to have been understandable as a different approach to the IP.



They even announced a concert for the game in May 2016 super early. Not sure lack of advertising was the issue here.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think that something that looked like Awakening crossed with the more reserved Atlus style found in SMT4 would be a lot more on target.
 
The reviews for Monster Strike on Amazon don't seem very good. I still see it reaching a million, but way down the line and with price slashes.

Also, if Microsoft doesn't announce Minecraft for the NX launch, I would think a Cube Creator NX could be very successful. Does anyone have an estimate for CC3D's LTD?
 
Maniel said:
People who don't want a ps4 wouldn't have to buy one if they don't want it. It would be much cheaper for them get a 3ds if they only want to play DQXI. I do not think that these people buying and reselling wouldn't make a huge difference in sales anyway.

Let's take another huge franchise that had a late release on an old system, Pokemon. Black and White 2 were released on the ds 5 months after the 3ds was released. By the end of 2012, they sold about 2.9 million copies according to famitsu and ended up selling more than either Emerald or Platinum. If DQXI releases late in the 3ds's life, it will still sell if it's a good game, but if they delay the ps4 version, many people may decide that they are content with the handheld version. Square may decide that a simultaneous release is worth it.

By the way, I do think there is a good possibility that Square may very well decide to release the 3ds version first, I'm just trying to justify why they wouldn't.

Edit: Looking at your post again it seems you've misunderstood what I was saying. I advocated simultaneous release, and not delaying the 3ds version to later than the ps4.
Click to expand...

Ah sorry about that, seems like it. :p
Completely agree on that. I don't think releasing one version earlier would necessarily be a good idea as well (apart of course, from unexpected technical problems, which I doubt is the case with this engine).
 
FluxWaveZ said:
That's basically what I mean: the dissonance between expectations and reality was very strong. If they hadn't ever promoted it as "SMTxFE" and instead went for "Atlus x FE" like they have been doing in recent marketing efforts, they would have at least avoided a big part of that backlash. There's still not a ton of Fire Emblem in it, but there's enough for it to have been understandable as a different approach to the IP.
Click to expand...

The issue is that the route they took with the final product basically makes even the FE tie in worth very little from a sales point of view. The game that they actually made always would need to find its own audience without relying on any established fans. Announcing it as Atlus x FE from the start would have avoided the betrayed expectations, but it wouldn't have made it a more appealing product. People probably just would look less forward to it from the start.

Don't forget that a lot of the interest regarding it came because for almost 2 years it was the only FE related game that had been announced, since Fates' announcement took so long. Now, think about a scenario where the only FE related game for such a long time would be this. I think the reactions could be even worse, actually, which is why they only revealed #FE after Fates' announcement.
 
SMTxFE died on April 1 when Nintendo released that colorful trailer. No amount of advertisement could save it.

It's just the way it is.
yCUAHaB.gif
 
ArkhamFantasy said:
Yeah, all of the FF games on PS4 are old ports.

FF7
FFX HD
FFX-2 HD
A Realm Reborn
Type-0 HD

World of Final Fantasy will be the PS4's first FF game that wasnt a late port.
Click to expand...

Even that is likely a Vita game first and foremost, upscaled to sell in the west.

This is also a good place for an FF XV is a ten year old port joke.
 
horuhe said:
A small store in the Rakuten Shopping Mall is selling the 2DS Pokémon Blue Limited Edition (the Pokémon Center exclusive one) at almost 30.000yen.

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/finebookpremiere/10002751/

It begins. What a way to celebrate the 20th anniversary of Pokémon in Japan. Making things that limited.
Click to expand...

These things will be price gouged to hell and back. If I was in the market for a japanese 3ds, these editions would be very enticing.
 
FluxWaveZ said:
I think a small reason for #FE's reception would also be the backlash it received because of how it was teased in 2013. Most of the audience expected one thing (an actual cross-over, which is even what the devs had in mind initially), but what resurfaced this year was something completely different. The overall opinion I was seeing of the game from Japanese comments was always negative and mocking.
Click to expand...

Not just japanese comments either. A lot of people here made and still make the same comments

Kid Ying said:
There is lots of reasons really. Audience mismatch, the few RPGs the console got were really different than this, the inital revelation ans the final product are nothing alike and the fe connection is quite small at best, so even if there is an fire emblem audience on the console (which is not even a lock) they might not be interested on this game... .
Click to expand...

NeonZ said:
It's not just about it being different from expectations, it's about the final form it took basically erasing the point of using established franchises for it in the first place. Aside from the complete removal of the SMT brand, at least from a marketing standpoint (although there are still some elements), even the FE content is changed to the point of losing recognizability in any relevant way, with the character designs, character choices themselves and their role being very different from what one would expect (and also low in number. In spite of having characters from two games, there are less FE characters in #FE than in either Awakening or FE1).
Click to expand...

A pretty good summary of it all.
 
Arzehn said:
But I thought the Nintendo audience would appreciate these games more.

RIP RyoonZ
Click to expand...

They appreciate a certain sect of jRPGs for sure, but this one was dissonant through and through with expectations and realities of the audience. On top of it, "Nintendo audience" is also on the 3DS so the statement is entirely meaningless when you exclude 20m people for 2m in an attempt to make a non-statement. Its just the wrong product.

Xenoblade did fine, as has DQX. Had this been an actual FE x SMT game, with something like a mix of FE:A and SMTIV aesthetics and themes, I think it would have done considerably better. (So much for my positively hopeful expectations, haha.)

And unlike the hypothetical Mario x Kirby posited before, this is drawing on a much smaller audience with a much smaller IP cross-over. Also targeting more core than casual fans. The whole thing is a mess.

horuhe said:
A small store in the Rakuten Shopping Mall is selling the 2DS Pokémon Blue Limited Edition (the Pokémon Center exclusive one) at almost 30.000yen.

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/finebookpremiere/10002751/

It begins. What a way to celebrate the 20th anniversary of Pokémon in Japan. Making things that limited.
Click to expand...

Maniel said:
These things will be price gouged to hell and back. If I was in the market for a japanese 3ds, these editions would be very enticing.
Click to expand...

I doubt the supply is actually limited, I think the demand is just enormous. TPC isn't going to leave money on the table like Nintendo tends to do with actual limited releases of the 3DS.
 
Jon Carter said:
The reviews for Monster Strike on Amazon don't seem very good. I still see it reaching a million, but way down the line and with price slashes.

Also, if Microsoft doesn't announce Minecraft for the NX launch, I would think a Cube Creator NX could be very successful. Does anyone have an estimate for CC3D's LTD?
Click to expand...

Is there any game on Amazon with a good review?
 
Vena said:
I doubt the supply is actually limited, I think the demand is just enormous. TPC isn't going to leave money on the table like Nintendo tends to do with actual limited releases of the 3DS.
Click to expand...

When shit sells out that quickly it's usually due to limited supply. They didn't even last 24 hours on Amazon Japan!
 
Anth0ny said:
When shit sells out that quickly it's usually due to limited supply. They didn't even last 24 hours on Amazon Japan!
Click to expand...

24 hours for something "limited" and of this level of nostalgia bait (with potential enormous demand), is not what I'd call limited. Limited to me is MM3DS selling out in minutes everywhere. Or when FE:Fates LE sold out under an hour everywhere, in all countries it launched or entered pre-orders.

As I said, TPC doesn't strike me as a group that'd do this "limited" run of this heavy nostalgia bait. Either they underestimated demand, demand was extremely high, or whatever, I won't be surprised if more shipments arrive. If Nintendo can cough up more Splatoon bundles from the ether, TPC is going to conjure up some 2DSs.
 
Arzehn said:
But I thought the Nintendo audience would appreciate these games more.

RIP RyoonZ
Click to expand...

What's the nintendo audience? Don't games like Etrian Oddessy, and SMT do well? I don't play them at all, but I think they've pulled good numbers.


As for FE#, I honestly would buy it if was it more a "traditional boring" type jrpg. Without the fan service and...performing stuff. Especially since the Wii U only has one. (Xenoblade X uses the gamepad really well btw. How come no one mentions that? I was surprised at what can be done there. Might make the best use of it outside of stuff like Mario Maker....)
 
Vena said:
24 hours for something "limited" and of this level of nostalgia bait (with potential enormous demand), is not what I'd call limited. Limited to me is MM3DS selling out in minutes everywhere. Or when FE:Fates LE sold out under an hour everywhere, in all countries it launched or entered pre-orders.

As I said, TPC doesn't strike me as a group that'd do this "limited" run of this heavy nostalgia bait. Either they underestimated demand, demand was extremely high, or whatever, I won't be surprised if more shipments arrive. If Nintendo can cough up more Splatoon bundles from the ether, TPC is going to conjure up some 2DSs.
Click to expand...

TPC isn't a hardware developer you realize. They kinda need to get the 2DS's from somewhere. Maybe Sharp. Or some other company. You know, maybe the one that tells them what to do and they do it.
 
Sammy Samusu said:
SMTxFE died on April 1 when Nintendo released that colorful trailer. No amount of advertisement could save it.

It's just the way it is.
yCUAHaB.gif
Click to expand...

Agreed. Nintendo's lack of any real marketing strategy for most of their games is to blame here. The way they revealed what this turned into was completely mishandled. Can they not hold a meeting about these things or do they just not really care?
 
Man God said:
TPC isn't a hardware developer you realize. They kinda need to get the 2DS's from somewhere. Maybe Sharp. Or some other company. You know, maybe the one that tells them what to do and they do it.
Click to expand...

You think Nintendo doesn't have a huge stock of 2DS or can't produce them quickly and incredibly cheaply?

But anyway, my original point was that "limited" isn't what I'd call this scenario. I'd call it very high demand.

jj984jj said:
Agreed. Nintendo's lack of any real marketing strategy for most of their games is to blame here. The way they revealed what this turned into was completely mishandled. Can they not hold a meeting about these things or do they just not really care?
Click to expand...

As was already said in this thread, the product was marketed. It just doesn't matter when no one seemingly wants the product.
 
Takao said:
I can't speak to real world advertising, but a bundle, LE, tonnes of trailers, and wall-to-wall Famitsu coverage (something insane like 15 pages this week) sure sounds like a push to me.
Click to expand...

I'm not one to blame lack of ads and nintendo did the same approach with Xeno x, which is Billboard here and there, some posters in some places and stores and that's it, but with a new IP they should have tried more. The web trailers and famitsu can only do so much. Not even a TV ad, where even stuff like w101 got it showed a lack of trust in the project, at least in my opinion.

Wasn't expecting that, but it what it is
 
Vena said:
They appreciate a certain sect of jRPGs for sure, but this one was dissonant through and through with expectations and realities of the audience. On top of it, "Nintendo audience" is also on the 3DS so the statement is entirely meaningless when you exclude 20m people for 2m in an attempt to make a non-statement. Its just the wrong product.

Xenoblade did fine, as has DQX. Had this been an actual FE x SMT game, with something like a mix of FE:A and SMTIV aesthetics and themes, I think it would have done considerably better. (So much for my positively hopeful expectations, haha.)

And unlike the hypothetical Mario x Kirby posited before, this is drawing on a much smaller audience with a much smaller IP cross-over. Also targeting more core than casual fans. The whole thing is a mess.


I doubt the supply is actually limited, I think the demand is just enormous. TPC isn't going to leave money on the table like Nintendo tends to do with actual limited releases of the 3DS.
Click to expand...

What were the latest numbers for Xenoblade? Under 150k still? I really wouldn't call those sales ''fine'' for title like Xenoblade that by all means looks like rather high budget Nintendo game. Not FE# like bomb but not really that good either.
 
  1. [3DS] Monster Hunter X - 372pts
  2. [3DS] Monster Strike - 206pts
  3. [PSV] Kidou Senshi Gundam: Extreme VS Force - 185pts
  4. [WIU] Splatoon - 138pts
  5. [PSV] Minecraft: PlayStation Vita Edition - 104pts
  6. [WIU] Super Mario Maker - 99pts
  7. [3DS] Rhythm Heaven: The Best + - 91pts
  8. [3DS] Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam MIX - 89pts
  9. [3DS] Yokai Watch Busters: Red Cat Team - 81pts
  10. [3DS] Disney Magical World 2 - 80pts
  11. [PS4] Fallout 4 - 78pts
  12. [3DS] Yokai Watch Busters: White Dog Squad - 75pts
  13. [3DS] Animal Crossing: Happy Home Designer - 74pts
  14. [3DS] Sumikko Gurashi: Omise Hajimerundesu - 58pts
  15. [3DS] Dragon Ball Z: Extreme Butouden - 33pts
  16. [3DS] The Legend of Zelda: Triforce Heroes - 24pts
  17. [3DS] Famista Returns - 23pts
  18. [PS4] Minecraft: PlayStation 4 Edition - 22pts
  19. [3DS] Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS - 22pts
  20. [PS4] Call of Duty: Black Ops 3 - 21pts
Japan failed U Atlus.
 
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