Sanders calls Planned Parenthood part of the Political Establishment he's taking on

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Veritigo_X said:
Except they seem to reacting to the endorsement itself.

PP and HRC endorse Hillary
Bernie supporters react
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There's a reasonable expectation for head scratching when PP not only breaks tradition by endorsing a candidate at all, but these organizations didn't arrive at this via its members and they rate politicians, and Bernie actually is rated higher. Then you start to head toward tinfoil when their leaders have history with Hillary.

SOMEONE is going to ask "wtf".

MoveOn.org endorsed Bernie, and their name is even a reference to moving on from Bill's scandals - but the difference is they arrived at that via vote. That endorsement was created in a democratic way.

PP's and HRC's were not. Pushback is inevitable, especially in a race where one candidate has had one hell of an uphill (and unprecedented) climb. Not all of Bernie's supporters are Twitter trolls, either, let's make this abundantly clear.

Jas said:
Why not have a link to the interview in the OP instead of just a second hand source? Someone posted it earlier in the thread.
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OP created this thread for the reaction posts, not to be informative. He banked on the first page of responses to both include "Fuck you, Bernie Sanders" as its first response and for people to explain the reality shortly after.
 
excelsiorlef said:
And this is just in the preliminary round against an opponent who frankly has gone easy. Imagine the sound bytes if he goes to the GE against a GOP opponent with all the resources of that party who is out for blood.
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Entire news networks will be dedicated to tearing down either him or Clinton.

I like the guy, but if he can't play footsies here then she will be the better nominee. It'd be nice if this was the last blunder, but only time will tell.
 
dramatis said:
I don't think the Democratic party has been doing very much to undermine his campaign. Did they not accept him into the Democratic primary, a party that he deliberately didn't join until it was politically expedient for him? Did they not offer him access to their information, which his campaign mishandled, and then largely let him and his campaign go unpunished because they whined a lot on social media? Did the party spend a lot of time attacking him for his campaign's mistakes? Did the party mostly leave him and his campaign alone with very limited attacks until now?

What have they done to actually undermine his campaign?
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Lack of debates, questionable scheduling, the rancor over the data access. The national party dislikes Bernie.
 
Time for the American people to vote O'Malley.

EDIT:

"Tell me, the first word that comes to your head." - Okay?

"Ted Cruz" - Mental
"Hillary" - Emails
"O'Malley" - Who?
"Ben Carson" - Pyramids
"Trump" - Trump

"Bernie Sanders" - Disappointment
 
Fuck it, still getting my vote, I am up for challenging anything in the country right now because our corruption has no bounds. Let's see how this pans out, might know something we don't.
 
Yeah... i'm not sure what his context is, but you shouldn't redlight some groups just because it's associated with Clinton.

I want him to explain in detail - could be simply what he means the whole heirarchy of lobbying (which includes PP), not the function of PP itself. Which kind of makes sense if you think about it that way.
 
onadesertedisland said:
Bernie could be running as a third party and ensuring a Trump presidency too, but he isn't and won't even if he doesn't get the nomination. The party should support all candidates equally to ensure that the best one wins the nomination for the best possible outcome of the national election. Picking favorites by the national Democratic party creates a problem that quality candidates will not run because establishment candidates will receive better support. This is the problem.
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Is it?

The party is only interested in one thing: ensuring it stays in power. To that end it will of course prop up its own candidates to win.

Why do you think the Republican Party was so against Trump?

The problem is that the average Republican has been conditiond to think that the establishment IS the problem.

That problems exists in the Democratic Party too, but not to such an extent. That's why HIllary still has the best odds of winning.

2024 will be interesting. The millennial vote will be the deciding factor and they have been brought up to thoroughly distrust the two parties in power.
 
onadesertedisland said:
Lack of debates, questionable scheduling, the rancor over the data access. The national party dislikes Bernie.
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It's because Bernie is an Independent who caucuses with the democratic party. He shits on the democratic party from time to time on Thom Hartmann radio show. The DNC give him a pass because he's a solid vote and doesn't cause too much problems. However, DWS' attempts to minimize HRC and Bernie exposure are downright insane and idiotic. She needs to be fired ASAP.
 
injurai said:
When you realize this, he is only fucking up in the sense that voters won't let him get away with pointing out problems on their side of the line in the sand.
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He's fucking up because a politician should know better than to say things that make an already heavily politicized situation even worse, especially in such a casual and flip way. People are acting like a person can't be expected to watch the things they say on the campaign trail, as if the media is somehow more generous once someone is elected to the Presidency.

If you want to actually accomplish things as a heavily scrutinized politician, you have to be very careful about word choice and timing. I don't know how anyone can pretend this isn't a fuck up.
 
excelsiorlef said:
The quote is the quote. He said what he said. The context doesn’t save it.
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See now you're full of shit, I think it does make a difference and either way that is a awful reason for you not to link the direct source.

Let people make up their own minds.
 
I think there's some possible subtlety missed here (ie non profit groups doing political activity), but a bit silly by Bernie.

I don't think it affects his policy or whatever,but it was definitely bad politics.

He needs to try to rally Democrats behind him. Not carpet bomb the whole thing.
 
I watched this interview live as it was happening and I didn't see anything objectionable about what he said.

In response to a question about PP's (and other groups') endorsement of Clinton, he explained that there are organizations he has sympathy for, but he has never been planning his campaign around winning their endorsements, because someone like Hilary is very entrenched in the structures of power that facilitate the political calculations that lead to these endorsements.

The only way to make it look like an anti-PP remark is to take it completely out of context and fire up the spin machine. Clinton campaign is losing its composure trying to find ways to attack Sanders.
 
god bernie why don't you just fake it until you make it and stop being so damn genuine

i mean seriously, you have an election to win and all of your integrity to lose
 
boiled goose said:
I think there's some possible subtlety missed here (ie non profit groups doing political activity), but a bit silly by Bernie.

I don't think it affects his policy or whatever,but it was definitely bad politics.

He needs to try to rally Democrats behind him. Not carpet bomb the whole thing.
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Thats the take home for 93% of the thread. From what I see.
 
onadesertedisland said:
Lack of debates, questionable scheduling, the rancor over the data access. The national party dislikes Bernie.
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Lack of debates was something both parties wanted. The rancor over data access, in case you've forgotten, was because Bernie's campaign stole data from another campaign. Bernie's campaign, the wrongdoers, had their access restored within two-three days and walked away scot-free from that.

Questionable scheduling of debates you can count, but that's like minimal effort. No, the national party has not been doing anything they can to undermine his campaign. That's just your impression, when the reality says otherwise.
 
RustyNails said:
It's because Bernie is an Independent who caucuses with the democratic party. He shits on the democratic party from time to time on Thom Hartmann radio show. The DNC give him a pass because he's a solid vote and doesn't cause too much problems. However, DWS' attempts to minimize HRC and Bernie exposure are downright insane and idiotic. She needs to be fired ASAP.
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I place a lot of blame directly on DWS's motives. She is blatant in her attempts to drive this train.
 
Seems like a stupid thing to say, but he's absolutely right that Planned Parenthood is part of the political establishment.

These politically influential groups always try to pretend to their fans and constituents that they're on the outside trying to fight for change, or that they're the oppressed voice. They're not. They are the political system.

The NRA does the same thing. To their constituents and the people they "advocate" for, the NRA pretends that they're on the outside trying to push for change... But they're embedded in the political system. I'm not saying that the NRA and Planned Parenthood are the same from a position of their motivations, one is defensible and the other is an abomination to American society, but they both play this game of being repressed, outside politics to people who sympathize with their perspective.

This doesn't make sense for Sanders to say this when he's trying to win a Democratic primary. It's going to alienate him to women who are already in Hillary's corner, but he's still right ... Just ... shouldn't say that.
 
I'm not a US resident so I can't vote either way, but it's odd to me how quick people on this website in particular are to demonize Bernie Sanders and his supporters. There seems to be a stigma against being a Bernie supporter here that I don't quite get.
 
For a campaign that wants to make nuanced points about shadow banking and ACA vs. single-payer, the Clinton campaign is being incredibly reductionist here.
 
dramatis said:
Lack of debates was something both parties wanted. The rancor over data access, in case you've forgotten, was because Bernie's campaign stole data from another campaign. Bernie's campaign, the wrongdoers, had their access restored within two-three days and walked away scot-free from that.

Questionable scheduling of debates you can count, but that's like minimal effort. No, the national party has not been doing anything they can to undermine his campaign. That's just your impression, when the reality says otherwise.
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You're burying the lead here.

They may have had access to data, the punitive measures taken against his campaign were a breach of contract. They had outlined the procedure for what happened and the DNC chose to ignore that. Only under threat of viable lawsuit did they relent.

I think it was less than 24 hours by the way, they had it back the next day AFAIK.

What Bernie's campaign did was wrong, but the DNC put its impartiality on full display, something they were already clearly failing to exhibit. In a country with superPACs and dirty campaigns, there is a reasonable expectation for misbehavior, but the RNC/DNC are supposed to at least pretend the people are the ones in charge of deciding. This is why they're so annoyed that the people seem to be leaning Trump.
 
GYODX said:
I'm not a US resident so I can't vote either way, but it's odd to me how quick people on this website in particular are to demonize Bernie Sanders and his supporters. There seems to be a stigma against being a Bernie supporter here that I don't quite get.
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Wow, I'm really surprised that you have this perspective from the outside looking in. I've always felt that Gaf was the opposite -- if you're an outspoken Hillary supporter you're a minority who has to defend why you're voting for her, where as, if you're a Sanders supporter you're someone who is fighting for what's right. Interesting I hadn't considered it from an outsiders point of view.
 
Wow! It's pretty shocking how many people in here are failing to understand what's being said. If you are taking this as "Sanders is anti-abortion!" then you've already had your mind fucked up by the establishment. These establishments are still the same groups that push money into politics in return for favors. You believe these establishments push one thing alone which is THAT ONE ISSUE you care about -- they're pure and free of corruption.
 
Cymbal Head said:
I watched this interview live as it was happening and I didn't see anything objectionable about what he said.

In response to a question about PP's (and other groups') endorsement of Clinton, he explained that there are organizations he has sympathy for, but he has never been planning his campaign around winning their endorsements, because someone like Hilary is very entrenched in the structures of power that facilitate the political calculations that lead to these endorsements.

The only way to make it look like an anti-PP remark is to take it completely out of context and fire up the spin machine. Clinton campaign is losing its composure trying to find ways to attack Sanders.
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Clinton was anti gay marriage in 2004. Bernie could be throwing that in her face, but isn't. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I1-r1YgK9I

The bigger picture is to let the people see both candidates for whom they are, and let people decide without tossing out these kinds of bullshit attacks that the right will have plenty of this fall.
 
excelsiorlef said:
The quote is the quote. He said what he said. The context doesn’t save it.
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Makes it sound worse. He states he wants their support. But then it really sounds like he only mentions Hillary in the sense, that since she's establishment("evil") and she's with them(and they're with her), then they are(evil) as well.
 
GYODX said:
I'm not a US resident so I can't vote either way, but it's odd to me how quick people on this website in particular are to demonize Bernie Sanders and his supporters. There seems to be a stigma against being a Bernie supporter here that I don't quite get.
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It's due to a lot of things but mostly it's the same kind of internet hyperbole you see everywhere. I don't think anyone here has a particularly low view of a Bernie supporter, but many GAF liberals seem to be in agreement that Bernie is the left's version of Ron Paul and his supporters are just as misguided, even if fervent in their support.

So it's fun to poke fun at them.

Then you get into Bernies BLM backlash and the way some vocal supporters tried to defend it... that's a very different animal than the tongue in cheek ribbing that mostly goes on.
 
Arkeband said:
OP created this thread for the reaction posts, not to be informative. He banked on the first page of responses to both include "Fuck you, Bernie Sanders" as its first response and for people to explain the reality shortly after.
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Looks like you're right, I've been on GAF for a while this is the first time I saw someone start a OP and not include the original source when there was one available.

When you see a few posts from people saying they saw the interview and didn't interpret it that way you would think you would link to it instead of a second hand source.
 
The Albatross said:
Seems like a stupid thing to say, but he's absolutely right that Planned Parenthood is part of the political establishment.

These politically influential groups always try to pretend to their fans and constituents that they're on the outside trying to fight for change, or that they're the oppressed voice. They're not. They are the political system.

The NRA does the same thing. To their constituents and the people they "advocate" for, the NRA pretends that they're on the outside trying to push for change... But they're embedded in the political system. I'm not saying that the NRA and Planned Parenthood are the same from a position of their motivations, one is defensible and the other is an abomination to American society, but they both play this game of being repressed, outside politics to people who sympathize with their perspective.

This doesn't make sense for Sanders to say this when he's trying to win a Democratic primary. It's going to alienate him to women who are already in Hillary's corner, but he's still right ... Just ... shouldn't say that.
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Are we really going to compare Planned Parenthood and the NRA? Not only in what they do, but their actual political reach and impact in our lives? PP can't get moral support from half the country, even though its a reason a lot of its inhabitants receive care. PP is only putting money in the game to stay running. NRA is stopping progress in America.
 
hipbabboom said:
Wow! It's pretty shocking how many people in here are failing to understand what's being said. If you are taking this as "Sanders is anti-abortion!" then you've already had your mind fucked up by the establishment.
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Since absolutely nobody is saying that "the establishment" must not be doing a good job with the mond-fucking.
 
atr0cious said:
Are we really going to compare Planned Parenthood and the NRA? Not only in what they do, but their actual political reach and impact in our lives?
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Just because you like one of them doesn't mean they both aren't part of the political establishment.
 
The Albatross said:
Wow, I'm really surprised that you have this perspective from the outside looking in. I've always felt that Gaf was the opposite -- if you're an outspoken Hillary supporter you're a minority who has to defend why you're voting for her, where as, if you're a Sanders supporter you're someone who is fighting for what's right. Interesting I hadn't considered it from an outsiders point of view.
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There is a difference in the nature of the attacks.

Bernie supporters have legitimate reasons for mistrusting Hillary. (Mainly ties to Wall Street, corruption, foreign policy, etc)

Hillary supporters just use politics. Unelectable, socialist, extreme, his supporters are racist, etc. They are even jumping on this quote. She's a good debater. It's just politics. There is no discussion of policy.

As an undecided voter (independent so can't vote in the primary), Hillary does some some positions that could be better than Bernie. Gun control and maybe education.

The debate is definitely uneven. I wish Hillary supporters backed her on policy. Support for her is justified by attacking sanders, not her policy.
 
The kneejerk reaction from the supposedly savvy people on here seems like really bad news for Bernie, even if it's easy to understand what he's trying to say here.
 
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