Sanders calls Planned Parenthood part of the Political Establishment he's taking on
- Thread starter excelsiorlef
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VendettaRed07
Member
All misinterpretations and misleading titles or whatever aside, this is what how I'm beginning to feel he thinks.
People have called him the democratic Ron Paul before. But I think he's more like the democratic Ted Cruz.
He was a good sport on Real Time with Bill Maher when Maher repeatedly warned his viewers if Bernie didn't win, to vote Hillary. "If you can't have the fish, eat the chicken."
Bernie knows that it's a long shot - but that would be political suicide to say out loud.
His only shot is to make his distinctions clear, even when he and Hillary are very, very similar.
VendettaRed07
Member
In regards to that he's a politician that the base likes but the party can't stand and doesn't have many friends for various reasons.
I'm not trying to insult him. It's his brand and it works for him
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
This is pretty much how I see it. If Liz Warren were to endorse Clinton then she would instantly become a sellout corporate shill too.
VendettaRed07
Member
The problem is many of his supporters are not going to think they are similar. Despite his reluctance to personally attack her, he's discredited her and basically every other democrat as not trust worthy due to money, and their connections. It's his number one issue. Without saying it specifically he's told his base that what she and others say they support is irrelevant because their donations and how they finance their compaigns.
With how much he has pushed this, some might interprete Trump as the chicken. Even on Hillarygaf I've seen people say "atleast with trump he's not taking super pacs, so I know what I'm getting. Unlike that lying evil corporate shill Hillary", numerous times.
I don't think he does it on purpose but his message I think is putting these types of thoughts in people's heads.
legacyzero
Banned
I dont think this is the same by comparison.
This is not the same as:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I1-r1YgK9I
FLIP. FLOP.
Prodigal Son
Member
She may not be one, but she'd be supporting one. That's a thin line, imo.
Luckily we're talking very unlikely hypotheticals.
For real. Saying "they both had a change of heart" and leaving it like that really undermines the reality that Sanders has been more of a supporter than Hillary ever was.
Sanders evolved before evolution was cool and spoke out for LGBT peeps (or at least L and G) when it was still controversial.
Hillary just went with the flow.
This is the same bullshit argument that Republicans use now. Leaving it up to the states is just as discriminatory.
Not to mention the answer for his state was "No"
I don't even understand why there is this push to revise Bernie's record on this. His positions were entirely defensible when they were made
Taking on liberal organizations he must win over if he's the nominee? He's flat out wrong.
The establishment label is insignificant here. Water is wet etc..
He's getting spanked for it...
The idea that he wants to take on PP etc... Sanders obviously does not but his poor choice of words in another establishment rant backfired. He pigeon holed himself.
The response from him here should be an apology and it will look bad regardless at this stage in the game. Just giving away free ammo....
Frozenprince
Banned
Yep. You had a shot Bernie, you had it.
Shame you had to go and fuck it up.
Lost a lot of respect for him.
Shame you had to go and fuck it up.
Lost a lot of respect for him.
Because he's supposed to be better than Clinton. You saw something similar with Obama and people projecting certain beliefs onto him.
legacyzero
Banned
Hmm.. I dunno. Most Republicans have gone full anti-LGBT, at least in regards to marriage. "leaving it to the state" doesn't scream discrimination to me. It just screams indifference.
I myself was indifferent to the LGBT until I became a GAF member and understood the weight it carried, and became part of the conversation. Now I'm all for it. Does that make me "discriminatory"?
Agent_Carnage
Member
How to Tank a successful campaign 101
by
Bernie Sanders
by
Bernie Sanders
But folks always telling you to check Sander's record, and then get mad when you do
legacyzero
Banned
At worst, he'll have to answer for it on the debate floor. A non-issue. The people in here saying "Lost all respect!" and "Campaign is dead!" dont seem to understand what he actually means, from what I'm seeing. Taking on establishments that are prematurely supporting a candidate for who-knows-why just seems off. Bernie actually SUPPORTS what these establishments stand for. Just not the establishment behaviors.
That's ridiculous. They know that "leaving it to the state" will allow conservative states to legally discriminate. That's not indifference. True indifference would mean they would allow national marriage equality rather than leave it up to bigoted state lawmakers and courts.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
Yup. If you could take his comment and use it as a springboard to argue that he isn't pro-choice, Sanders would have a mess on his hands. As it stands, no one will be talking about this in 24 hours.
loki 16
Member
Yup. People just want to find excuses to bash on Bernie.
legacyzero
Banned
Ouch, yeah that's troubling. Now THIS is debate material, worthy of asking for receipts.
It's the same for Hilary too, though. That should cool down once a nomination happens, hopefully. The in-fighting in the Dem camp needs to quit, and folks need to realize that our options are WAAAAY less crazy than the GOP.
Pretty sure in the grand scheme of the low key democratic primary, this will be talked about for quite a while by Hillary's camp and anyone inside Hillary's sphere (now this is a big bunch) interested in helping Hillary land Iowa. As such, it's gonna be pushed past 24 hrs. It's a solid gotcha moment with 1 week to go before the Iowa Caucus.
I think one key thing to make clear when some are declaring his campaign dead:
Bernie has a tightrope to walk if he wants the nomination. His most likely gambit is to win Iowa and then New Hampshire, thus giving himself a polling/media boost going forward while also prompting the voters/media to begin questioning Hillary's inevitability.
With this in mind: Iowa appears to be as tight as a tick right now. This incident by itself probably will not end-up being a very huge thing by itself. But if it costs him 1-2% and thus victory in Iowa, he loses that "Iowa-->New Hampshire-->KABOOM!" path to the nomination.
This is why some are wincing. It's likely not a big deal. But it might be what tips the race.
Bernie has a tightrope to walk if he wants the nomination. His most likely gambit is to win Iowa and then New Hampshire, thus giving himself a polling/media boost going forward while also prompting the voters/media to begin questioning Hillary's inevitability.
With this in mind: Iowa appears to be as tight as a tick right now. This incident by itself probably will not end-up being a very huge thing by itself. But if it costs him 1-2% and thus victory in Iowa, he loses that "Iowa-->New Hampshire-->KABOOM!" path to the nomination.
This is why some are wincing. It's likely not a big deal. But it might be what tips the race.
legacyzero
Banned
And it just so happens that there is a Dem Debate (town hall) 1 week before the Caucus.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
Rachel Maddow is starting her show off with this story. She just started.
excelsiorlef
Member
Planned Parenthood literally laid out exactly why they went with Clinton. Literally in a chart and everything. They were even very complimentary to Sanders.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
I mean, they might try to, but the crux of that argument implies that, because Bernie dismissed Planned Parenthood in his answer (a gaffe), he is therefore dismissive of a woman's right to choose. There's a good chance that Hillary or her camp push that narrative too far and it backfires as an attempt by Clinton to score political points. That's already how her line of attack against Sanders' single payer proposal has been interpreted, she doesn't need to feed into her "do anything to get ahead" image after some of her attacks against Sanders this election and her attacks against Obama in 08.
If Hillary is as deft a politician as many perceive her to be, she will take this opportunity to affirm that Bernie is a pro-choice candidate who poorly worded his answer, just as Bernie brushed aside opportunities to hammer Clinton on her emails and again brushed aside an opportunity to throw a cheap shot at Clinton over Bill's infidelity. That Hillary tries to pounce on these small mishaps or distort non-issues to manipulate voters (and does so often) is part of the reason voters have a hard time being enthusiastic about her. Voters can more easily rally around someone who relinquishes an opportunity to fan the flames than one who comes across as desperate to spark a fire.
Hillary's best option is to say "No one doubts that Sanders has a strong record on a woman's right to choose, but I have been a champion of women's rights my entire life and Planned Parenthood agrees that I am the best candidate for that cause." If she leaves it at that, she will look presidential and still drive home the point that she is a strong choice as an advocate of women's rights. If she tries to smear Sanders' character or distort his positions on these issues, she'll come across as Hillary "desperate to be president" Clinton that many already perceive her as. It does her no favors. Trying to turn a free throw into a 3-pointer always backfires on Hillary. She should take the small victory and keep it moving, if you ask me.
Yeah, I think this is probably how it will play out.
Elfforkusu
Member
Already pivoting for the general. Smart!
But seriously, he's right. Doesn't mean he's going to dismantle them
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
It's not like he's literally saying to defund PP and Obamacare.
I don't think this is a big deal if he means that he is "taking on" the influence of multiple institutions that are not endorsing him. There's no way Bernie would dismantle PP.
I'm worried that he's too naive though; this and the "yes I will raise taxes but" comment from the debate makes me think that he could be taken down by attack ads. Hillary said she's "raising incomes," and that's what his plan would do assuming the tax increase for universal health care is more than offset by lowered premiums and POS costs.
I'm worried that he's too naive though; this and the "yes I will raise taxes but" comment from the debate makes me think that he could be taken down by attack ads. Hillary said she's "raising incomes," and that's what his plan would do assuming the tax increase for universal health care is more than offset by lowered premiums and POS costs.
RustyNails
Member
People have been saying this for months. This "misspeak" is nothing. If Bernie is the nominee, wait and see what the GOP and their SuperPACs are going to come up with. He will be skewered and on the defensive every single day till the election eve.
Elfforkusu
Member
Negative, in this case, is a synonym for realistic.
I guess there's some doubt as to whether the Democratic establishment hates Bernie, but they are demonstrably actively working against him. And why wouldn't they? He's not a Democrat.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Endorsing Hilary over Bernie is actively working against him. If one actually watched the video, he saying obviously he'd like their public endorsement as a supporter of both planned parenthood and the human rights campaign but the people in charge of those groups are hedging their bets, and that's o.k.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
Um, isn't Sanders saying that it's to be expected that these "establishment" institutions would endorse the establishment candidate? How is it hypocritical of him to do that but not criticise institutions that have not endorsed the establishment candidate? If Planned Parenthood had endorsed some minor/third party candidate ahead of him or Clinton would he have been a hypocrite for not criticising them?
He didn't say that's ok though. In one breath he says he is taking on the entire establishment and not just Wall Street. In the next he says that includes planned parenthood
For the record, yes, I watched the video (and Rachel Maddows follow up). And no I don't think it's a huge deal unless PP escalates further. Bernie has not made any attempt to clarify or reword it though, so why are you? In fact he has outright refused to saying he stands by his phrasing
Dude Abides
Banned
Is the sole criterion for if an institution is "establishment" or not whether it supports Bernie Sanders for President?
At a time when PP is under attack, and a large portion of the electorate is feeling "anti-establishment," it's not great to have PP's purported allies calling it an "establishment" organization.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
No. But if Sanders is basing his campaign around being the non-establishment candidate, then obviously from his perspective the institutions that endorse him are taking a chance and those that endorse Clinton are sticking with the safe, establishment choice. You might think that's convenient politically but it doesn't make him a hypocrite.
I'm not American, so I'm only vaguely aware of the situation surrounding PP atm, but I don't think referring to them as establishment is a particularly strong attack. Regardless I understand that it could come across as a red rag to the bull that is the Republican base and therefore is a remark that supporters of PP feel could have gone unsaid.
The issue is, that this story is a non issue entirely.
Is it wrong that Hillary has all the cards to compete in her favor? No, its not. Are many of these cards very powerful that align themselves with other powerful entities? Yes. That by nature is establishment politics.
It has nothing to do with grassroots activities in the least.
The only people trying to make an issue out of what Bernie said(probably when they have not even heard the actual interview itself) is only a bad case of confirmation bias on their parts.
Dude Abides
Banned
But Sanders has taken contributions (not sure about endorsements) by organizations that would qualify as establishment by any measure by which PP or HRC would also qualify. That's the inconsistent part.
Calling something "establishment" is certainly a criticism, however strong you may personally find it. Other people use the term "elites," Cruz uses "Washington cartel." It's a fairly negative image to conjure up.
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