Did you not pay attention to how Minecraft began before Microsoft purchased them and how the community of players and modders helped drive it's iteration?
Greenberg: Quantum Break is not coming to Steam
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
Did you not pay attention to how Minecraft began before Microsoft purchased them and how the community of players and modders helped drive it's iteration?
You use the modding tools the game has provided or contact the dev instead of trying to hack his software.
Maybe for once gamers will stop with the "gamers vs game makers" war and actually cooperate with them, at least to some extent. I don't see this type of war ending well.
Felix Lighter
Member
The community moddable version of Minecraft is not available on the Win 10 store. A Windows 10 port of the pocket edition is all that is available.
flintstryker
Banned
Reading this thread has further astound me at how willing some people are to bend over and allow themselves to be plunged by their corporate overlords.
This kills the
Silent Chief
Member
Different people have different background and motivations. It's not hard to understand.
The people who see themselves has curators of computer gaming are a very small group.
Gaming has a huge juvenile majority. Kids are not attached to the past.
In the end, games can only be preserved forever if you have the source code.
You're doing a magnific job of restoring a print of a masterpiece.
Mod support is coming
I don't see it that way...
What am I reading? You know that would never happen, right? I'm sure Durante, a random person from the internet, would do great trying to contact a foreign company like From after their fucked up PC port released, promising them more sales if they let him mess with their code or made expensive mod tools. How do you believe this stuff will happen?
This utterly misses the point. Minecraft would not exist or be the sensation it became without the ability for the community of users to modify and relay feedback over many many iterations. Your system does not allow for any of this to be a remote possibility.
Felix Lighter
Member
I never realized the Utopia these restrictions would bring. Suddenly all publishers are allocating resources for official modding tools. Devs are taking time from their schedule to work directly with the entire mod community, blessing mods one by one.
MEUTIM which brings ridiculously high resolution textures to Mass Effect 1 doesn't exist in this world you're describing. Nor does most graphics modding or texture modding in general.
You're back to wishful thinking. I mean, do you believe this hasn't been tried?
Lots of things you say would be wonderful. The vast majority of them have not the least in common with the reality we live in.
flintstryker
Banned
Are you really this naive or are you just fucking with us?
paperspace
Member
Interesting. You're defending PC-ports being limited in a lot of ways (and in some ways even barely playable) but you're using bad PC-versions to prove that it's for the greater good?
I mean, some PC-ports are called broken/bad because they lack the same features as UWA-games. To some people, that means games released as UWA (as it currently stands) are inevitably broken PC-games.
derExperte
Member
Any recent examples? Because my impression is that those issues have become so rare that they're now irrelevant and not something that needs attention. The argument about security maybe has some merit but again, we're talking about commercial games and I can't remember a case where something seriously bad happened that would've been prevented by the game being an 'app'.
Nor does stuff like the Unnofficial patch for VtMB or Kotor 2 Restored, because publishers released those games and then fucked off to the next project after launch.
Linearskillz
Member
lol you're clearly missing the point I'm trying to make, or more likely just being purposefully as obtuse as possible. No wonder Durante is frustrated with you.
There are things Microsoft forbids you from doing with UWA that you can do elsewhere. End.
You're responses amount to little more than "deal with it." And you know what? I'd rather not.
Ohhhhhh, so you mean Namco Bandai Approved™, Koei Tecmo Approved™, Bethesda Approved™... I can see how that is much better.
Yeah, game makers dictating all terms is hugely beneficial for gamers. That's never turned out badly at all. Especially on PC.
Do you follow the modding scene at all? If we were restricted to what publishers are willing to let us mod the modding scene would be dead.
Dick Justice
Banned
There is no point in arguing with a brick wall. Or a troll.
I think that is the only conclusion at this point.
You actually believe this?
GhostTrick
Banned
I mean, don't get me wrong I wouldn't mind UWA versions of games existing alongside win32/normal non-sandboxed releases but UWA only releases would be asinine.
Collateral22
Member
Oh wow that really sucks. Not something I would support really. The whole point of PC gaming seems to be having your own control over the way a game runs and what you can do with it, hardware depending of course.
The last time I had trouble with an uninstaller was a brief time back in Steam's early days and it'd delete not only Steam's own installation folder but also the home folder (e.g. you'd lose C:\Games rather than just C:\Games\Steam). 2003 was a long time ago.
UcchedavÄda
Member
Is that actually how you view it? People spending their free time trying to improve or re-imagine the experience in games they enjoy are actually waging war against the people who made those games?
Honestly if Microsoft first party stuff only got this treatment I'll ignore it. Those games probably weren't heading to Windows if this store wasn't a thing regardless, I'd like them here rather than Xbox if only for conveniance. If third party stuff starts getting UWA-only releases I'll make a big stink. In the end though they're doing this shit for no benefit, this isn't how you establish a store or foster a userbase. They're shooting themselves in the foot (to whatever degree is debatable) for no reason at all. There's no precedent for success here, and a lot of precedent for failure. Why not make them Win32?
So many absurd statements. Every game ever released after a few years will have no problems whatsoever? How can this be an argument? Modders are to blame for dev's mistakes?
Sorry you are not making any sense
I doubt they would honestly. Would EA really give up Origin to instead sandbox their games and give Microsoft 30% while also killing their new Origin Access service? Would Ubisoft give up Uplay and give MS 30%? I don't really see most if any of the main publishers going down this route.
edit: At most there might be UWA ports of some games like Tomb Raider, but it doesn't really make sense to go all-in.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
No problem here
Yeah this is mainly going to be 1st party and some indie stuff. Without this platform none of that 1st party stuff would be coming.
Kssio_Aug
Member
Some pages ago I expressed my thoughts about that (which is basically that I don't see a problem with it). However, I don't think MS will push all their games as MS digital store exclusive forever. Quantum Break is a huge deal for them to promote their storefront, that's probably the main reason why the game is exclusive to Windows App store right now, maybe it will be released on different stores in the future.
Also, as long as MS doesn't close their operating system as Windows RT (and they obviously won't) we will always be able to mod games from different companies. They're not blocking you from modding 3rd party games or accessing those anywhere you want, they're just making sure to promote their storefront with their own IP's or deals.
Also, as long as MS doesn't close their operating system as Windows RT (and they obviously won't) we will always be able to mod games from different companies. They're not blocking you from modding 3rd party games or accessing those anywhere you want, they're just making sure to promote their storefront with their own IP's or deals.
For what it's worth, I'm still going for the PC version of QB as a sandboxed app-game primarily because I'm getting it for free with the Xbox version I'm buying anyway. I don't see microsoft making it mandatory to go UWA-only on their OS because they'd essentially be telling publishers like Ubisoft and EA that they have no option but to give them 30% of revenue on games which would be really insane. With the Xbox they have no choice in the first place, but on Windows where they can sell their own games themselves and build their own infrastructure it would be crazy.
I don't trust microsoft after gfwl and i don't want to support them either after the troubles i had with their service which was from the first to the last day a mess for some of my games. Quantum Break seems like something i might enjoy but i am fine with waiting a few years to see how the windows store evolves and how it affects gaming before i buy a game from them.
Hamster Plugin
Member
The part of the operating system that runs Quantum Break is closed. You can't mod the Windows 10 app version of Rise of the Tomb Raider or Minecraft without jailbreaking and the same will be the case with Quantum Break. Windows Store is like iOS App Store, it is not just another storefront.
Quite the contrary as pointed out numerous times in this very thread. The amount of drive-by shit posting in here is making my head spin.
I think they just mean they don't mind, which is fair enough. My main problem with it is the inability to use reshade, but it's not enough of an obstacle for me to not play they game.
Wait, you live in a crazy ass utopia world, where a game being a universal app will somehow prevent publishers from shitting out broken ports, it will somehow make every developed be able of creating modding tools of their games, and then you even feel confortable on shitting on old school modding by calling it a "war of gamers vs game makers"? Do you realize how crazy you sound?
I came to the same conclusion. No point in arguing with people who quote durante's speculations as fact without understanding the actual restrictions of the proposed format.
And there is no point in arguing with durante's gloom and doom predictions. Apparently PC gaming is going to die yet again.
Anyway, I think that my opinion on the matter is clear by now.
Calm Killer
In all media, only true fans who consume every book, film, game, or pog collection deserve to know what's going on.
I mean, it can be repeated 1000 times, but if it doesn't make sense, why repeat it? Basically what I am hearing is if you are a PC elitist you don't like it because x,y,z. For the other 95%of the world it doesn't make sense.
Kssio_Aug
Member
I mean that you can still mod every game released outside of MS digital store, which every other company will keep releasing their games at. So it basically only extends to MS first party games or those which they get an exclusivity deal. And even like that I doubt that they won't ever release their own games on different storefronts in the future after they promote enough of their store with said game.
Where has anyone said "PC gaming is going to die yet again"?
The points made regarding UWA are accurate unless there is a unilateral change in what they are. You would be getting a functionally restricted product vs a Win32 version. Whether Quantum Break will release as a UWA only or also have a win32 variant or only be Win32 is unknown right now.
At least I am open to listening to opinion and current fact, rather than derisive
Crystal clear: you live in a fantasy world. No two ways about it, the amount of people quoting YOU and YOUR absurd statements, NOT Durante and his "doom and gloom" like you claim, should start setting off some alarm bells in your head at some point. Clearly we haven't reached that point yet, and probably won't in this thread.
I have seen some shit but this post makes no sense at all. Like watching someone who is still living inside a bubble and still ignoring all the facts durante gave out and still being ignorant and fucking naive.
LukasTaves
Member
Yeah, dll injection is definitely off limits, though I don't think you need in order to have the same functionality in a secure environment.
It's kinda of wishful thinking I agree, but you don't need to have every single game developer adding support for it.
An hypothetical scenario:
- Nvidia launch a UWP Game Works api, the main difference from the current one is that it exposes the rendering states so other apps could interact with it.
- Along side the api they launch an app on the store which checks for conflicts and that app supports plugins, so you can download plugins like: unlimit fps, unlock resolution, framerate analysis and so on.
- They work with the major middleware providers and integrate that on UE4, Cry engine, Unity and others.
It's still not the same on having guaranteed support on every game even if the developer not support it directly, but it would require way less effort for people actually making the games which makes it more feasible.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Microsoft is preparing to make Xbox a Steam-like service across all Windows machines, and they won't release anything like a traditional console to succeed the Xbox One. There might be a box that they release, but it'll be more like a Steambox/set-top PC than anything. They own the whole pipe, so it doesn't make sense to confine their game efforts to one platform.
But it hasn't changed so I'm not sure what you mean? If anything it's more popular then it's ever been.