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[Trailblaster]

I guess

Good! The longer this Gen last the better for everyone. I'd be find with the current hardware till 2014

 

[TTP]

Good! The longer this Gen last the better for everyone. I'd be find with the current hardware till 2014

I think when waggle comes, along with stereo-3D, it will be like a new gen indeed.

 

[Psychotext]

I have updated the large financial results post, copy of which is below...

Updated with Microsoft 2nd Quarter 2010 FY earnings
http://www.microsoft.com/msft/earnings/fy10/earn_rel_q2_10.mspx

Updated with Nintendo / Sony 3rd Quarter 2010 FY earnings
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2010/100128e.pdf
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/09q3_sony.pdf

	   Sony		    Nintendo	      Microsoft	        Total
Y/E 1998     $902,811,090   $1,023,333,867                      $1,926,144,957
Y/E 1999   $1,102,563,557   $1,301,350,000                      $2,403,913,557
Y/E 2000     $722,738,949   $1,368,207,547                      $2,090,946,497
Y/E 2001    -$449,776,290     $677,576,000                        $227,799,710
Y/E 2002     $629,101,056     $895,872,180   -$1,135,000,000      $389,973,237
Y/E 2003     $935,569,253     $834,333,333   -$1,191,000,000      $578,902,586
Y/E 2004     $627,195,212     $993,161,303   -$1,337,000,000      $283,356,515
Y/E 2005     $419,888,799   $1,056,056,202     -$539,000,000      $936,945,001
Y/E 2006      $69,129,058     $774,478,055   -$1,339,000,000     -$495,392,887
Y/E 2007  -$1,970,923,859   $1,914,666,388   -$1,969,000,000   -$2,025,257,471
Y/E 2008  -$1,079,994,103   $4,322,637,887      $426,000,000    $3,668,643,783
Y/E 2009    -$664,313,787   $5,691,428,301      $169,000,000    $5,196,114,515

Y/E 10Q1    -$413,541,667     $420,843,750      $312,000,000      $319,302,083
Y/E 10Q2    -$653,333,333     $710,655,556      $375,000,000      $432,011,111
Y/E 10Q3     $210,629,750   $2,087,904,452               N/A               N/A

Total				
	     $387,078,407  $24,072,504,822   -$6,157,000,000   $16,004,049,028
				
Full Year Average
	     $103,665,745   $1,737,758,422   -$1,001,857,143      $914,270,499

Profitable Years				
			8		12		   2		    10
				
Non Profitable Years				
			4		 0		   6		     2
				
Average in Loss Year				
	  -$1,041,252,010              N/A   -$1,251,666,667   -$1,260,325,179
				
Average in Profit Year				
	     $676,124,622   $1,737,758,422      $333,000,000    $1,389,625,094

...and a handy note suggested by Stumpokapow:

The years in the chart above refer to the financial years of each company, which do not align on a calendar basis.

Microsoft is one quarter behind Sony and Nintendo on that chart. They will be the first to report their 2010 calendar Q1 earnings (Jan - Mar), which they report as their 2010 Q3 financial figures. Nintendo and Sony just reported their 2010 calendar Q3 earnings (Oct - Dec), which they report as their 2010 Q3 financial figures.

...and another:

These numbers are the operating income figures for all companies, rather than the net income.

...and another:

As of FY 2010 Q1, Sony are now reporting the results for the re-organised division "Networked Products & Services" rather than the old method of reporting for the gaming division.

"Sony said it will combine its VAIO personal-computer, Walkman and PlayStation businesses in the Networked Products & Services Group to focus on creating gadgets that can work with each other and connect to the Internet."

 

[hxa155]

Playstation Phone coming soon?

 

[Grooski]

So the PS3 outsold the X360 worldwide by around 1.7million units since September? Maybe more... 1.3 mill for the quarter + September sales. Wouldn't have pegged that in a Halo year.

I love both sides PR, but remember Greenberg's "we'll outsell the PS3 this holiday". Result? Outsold in every territory. Dille + Greenberg = teh winz

 

[gofreak]

13m should be a lock for the year. It's possible they might actually beat that.

Elios was pretty spot on too:

At this point it actually seems spot on.
They need 6.5m in Q3 (last year they sold 4.5m in Q3 while current sales are 2-3X what they were last year) and 2.5m in Q4.

It'd probably be interesting to go back to when Sony first announced this forecast...

 

[NemesisPrime]

So the PS3 outsold the X360 worldwide by around 1.7million units since September? Maybe more... 1.3 mill for the quarter + September sales. Wouldn't have pegged that in a Halo year.

I love both sides PR, but remember Greenberg's "we'll outsell the PS3 this holiday". Result? Outsold in every territory. Dille + Greenberg = teh winz

360 outsold PS3 by 500K in 2009 according to NPD in USA. I think he was referring to that.

 

[Psychotext]

It'd probably be interesting to go back to when Sony first announced this forecast...

In fairness, I think some people were expecting a slim model back then, some people were expecting a price cut. You could probably count the number of people who expected a simultaneous slim launch and a price cut on one hand.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

They did revise the forecast down from something too iirc. I think it was a incredibly minor adjustment that flabbergasted a lot of folks. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the contracts were done in such a way that the only chance of missing their estimate comes from their end, production issues or whatever, rather than making a sale as traditionally thought of.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

I don't expect Sony will want to switch generations quickly whether Arc is successful or not, as they seem to be mostly concerned about their business being profitable at this point.

Microsoft on the other hand seems to hold beating Sony as a very large goal, even if it means losing money.

Not really. If that was the case, they would've taken better advantage of Sony's mistakes with more aggressive pricing (really, was there ever a console that lasted that long before the first price drop?), more exclusive deals, more bought studios... No, I'd say they're both primarily focused on making profit at this point.

Of course, if Sony was still way ahead of everyone else, Microsoft's priorities would probably be different.

 

[gofreak]

They did revise the forecast down from something too iirc.

This current forecast has remained unchanged (?)

I think it was a incredibly minor adjustment that flabbergasted a lot of folks. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the contracts were done in such a way that the only chance of missing their estimate comes from their end, production issues or whatever, rather than making a sale as traditionally thought of.

I don't think they have to massage these numbers to make them work out... I don't think you'll see them shuffling numbers from prior year's quarter into this years to make up the sums. They need to ship 2.2m this Q1 which they've done before in less positive circumstances.

In fairness, I think some people were expecting a slim model back then, some people were expecting a price cut. You could probably count the number of people who expected a simultaneous slim launch and a price cut on one hand.

If everyone had listened to Wollan in that thread they would have done alright (except his GT5 for the holidays prediction...but in the end they didn't need it)

 

[Road]

They did revise the forecast down from something too iirc. I think it was a incredibly minor adjustment that flabbergasted a lot of folks. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the contracts were done in such a way that the only chance of missing their estimate comes from their end, production issues or whatever, rather than making a sale as traditionally thought of.

You mean hardware sales?

PS3 forecast remains unchanged. PSP was reduced from 15 million to 10. PS2 was raised to 7 million from 5. Total software also reduced to 200 million from 240.

Regarding console wars:

 

[Taurus]

Regarding console wars:

 

[Road]

=P

 

[Belgorim]

=P

You forgot to add PC on the chart

 

[Elios83]

Good results for them.
I actually expected a 7m quarter for PS3 because 6.5m seems really close to the actual sell through but probably they didn't have the inventory to sell as they did AND fill the channells.
In Q1 2010 PS3 could gain an other million on the 360. At this point PS3 is exactly where 360 was at the end of September, so Sony is just a holyday season behind.
As for PSP I expected that it would be hard even to sell 10m at this point and that PS2 would be upped again XD
I don't know what they're gonna do with PSP, they need to cut the price to a more affordable level (129$ for the 3000 and 179$ for the Go), I think a price cut is definetly on the horizon but a lot depends on their plans for a next generation handheld.

 

[DevilWillcry]

God of War III and GT5 are Playstation legacy franchises. So they are pretty likely to move hardware. I also expect a PS3 pricedrop around GT5 so obviously that will help as well. But then there is a full Halo release and likely pricedrops from MS as well. It's gonna be a crazy competitive year.

 

[Garjon]

Wow the Vaio/PS3 division did far better than I was expecting, well done to them. Also, if that 13 million target is well within spitting distance right now.

As for the discussion of the end of the generation, I don't think this will happen very soon. Microsoft are making money off each 360 sold and software sales are through the roof. Sony is finally starting to make some money on the PS3 and Nintendo.... well, they won't be in any rush right now. Also, it doesn't make much business sense to be unveiling a new console right now.
However, I fully expect the next generation of handhelds to begin well within the next two years.

 

[Taurus]

=P

Well, if you put it that way shouldn't you replace this:

with this:

?

 

[SamBishop]

This is related to absolutely nothing, but Kevin Butler is on an episode of Angel on TNT right now.

 

[Celine]

When it is all said and done. The PSP will surpass the GBA to become the #2 handheld of all time. Pretty impressive for Sony's first try.

If it will sell 120 million units when all is said and done then yes.

Code:
Sony Nintendo Microsoft Total
Y/E 1998 $902,811,090 $1,023,333,867 $1,926,144,957
Y/E 1999 $1,102,563,557 $1,301,350,000 $2,403,913,557
Y/E 2000 $722,738,949 $1,368,207,547 $2,090,946,497
Y/E 2001 -$449,776,290 $677,576,000 $227,799,710
Y/E 2002 $629,101,056 $895,872,180 -$1,135,000,000 $389,973,237
Y/E 2003 $935,569,253 $834,333,333 -$1,191,000,000 $578,902,586
Y/E 2004 $627,195,212 $993,161,303 -$1,337,000,000 $283,356,515
Y/E 2005 $419,888,799 $1,056,056,202 -$539,000,000 $936,945,001
Y/E 2006 $69,129,058 $774,478,055 -$1,339,000,000 -$495,392,887
Y/E 2007 -$1,970,923,859 $1,914,666,388 -$1,969,000,000 -$2,025,257,471
Y/E 2008 -$1,079,994,103 $4,322,637,887 $426,000,000 $3,668,643,783
Y/E 2009 -$664,313,787 $5,691,428,301 $169,000,000 $5,196,114,515

Y/E 10Q1 -$413,541,667 $420,843,750 $312,000,000 $319,302,083
Y/E 10Q2 -$653,333,333 $710,655,556 $375,000,000 $432,011,111
Y/E 10Q3 $210,629,750 $2,087,904,452 N/A N/A

Total
$387,078,407 $24,072,504,822 -$6,157,000,000 $16,004,049,028

Full Year Average
$103,665,745 $1,737,758,422 -$1,001,857,143 $914,270,499

Profitable Years
8 12 2 10

Non Profitable Years
4 0 6 2

Average in Loss Year
-$1,041,252,010 N/A -$1,251,666,667 -$1,260,325,179

Average in Profit Year
$676,124,622 $1,737,758,422 $333,000,000 $1,389,625,094

It's a shame that MS and now Sony doesn't account their Videogame operations under an unique division.

 

[Road]

Or maybe this:

?

You forgot to add PC on the chart

PC graphs are boring? =(

 

[Stumpokapow]

It's a shame that MS and now Sony doesn't account their Videogame operations under an unique division.

Nintendo doesn't either.

 

[Psychotext]

It's a shame that MS and now Sony doesn't account their Videogame operations under an unique division.

Strangely enough, Sony have been modifying some of their historical results to account for the change and it's made a lot less difference than I expected it to.

 

[ULTROS!]

The price cut really did wonders

 

[Celine]

Nintendo doesn't either.

eh eh you have a point but you know how relevant is their kurata business ...

EDIT:

Strangely enough, Sony have been modifying some of their historical results to account for the change and it's made a lot less difference than I expected it to.

Oh interesting, never know that.

 

[Serenity]

So what were the software sales this quarter? I'm not seeing it in the data shown?

 

[Road]

So what were the software sales this quarter? I'm not seeing it in the data shown?

 

[Serenity]

I'm guessing thats a chart of the software sales. I just get an "x" here at work

Thanks.

 

[Lotan]

The money ship seams to be righted, but 3 months for 2+ million ps3's...They gotta be hoping heavy rain gets some huge cross over sales.

 

[Road]

I'm guessing thats a chart of the software sales. I just get an "x" here at work

Thanks.

Err.... http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/viewer/09q3/slide/image/23_image.jpg

(Is it appearing for others, btw?)



Unrelated. That one last graph I did made me curious:

Also, currently:

DC + XBOX + PS2 + GCN ~= 200 million

PSP + DS ~= 188 million
360 + WII + PS3 ~= 129 million

 

[Psychotext]

The money ship seams to be righted, but 3 months for 2+ million ps3's...They gotta be hoping heavy rain gets some huge cross over sales.

I think it's probably a little early to say that. Q3 of their 2008 financial year (Oct - Dec 2007) showed $113m profit, after which the division totalled up another $1.7bn dollars of losses (not including this quarter of profits). Sony's financial Q4 is typically weak for them, so if they can pull out a profit (or at least only a minimal loss) for that quarter we'll probably be able to say that they've righted the ship.

 

[MasterTeacher]

I can see the PS3 being about 3 million behind the 360 globally around this time next year with an eventual take over some time late next year.

 

[pseudocaesar]

I keep trying to make this point in the GT5 thread, but I keep getting shouted down. From a marketing perspective, Sony should just not put GT5 against Natal unless Sony can suddenly step it up.

No wonder you keep getting shouted down. Its Gran Turismo, OK. Get it? Gran ... Turismo. Its Sony's biggest IP, by a long, long, .... long stretch. To think Natal would generate more consumer interest than a numbered GT entry is folly. They could release it next week and it'd still sell millions.

 

[MasterTeacher]

The money ship seams to be righted, but 3 months for 2+ million ps3's...They gotta be hoping heavy rain gets some huge cross over sales.

Or God of War 3

 

[Serenity]

Err.... http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/viewer/09q3/slide/image/23_image.jpg

(Is it appearing for others, btw?)



Unrelated. That one last graph I did made me curious:

Also, currently:

DC + XBOX + PS2 + GCN ~= 200 million

PSP + DS ~= 188 million
360 + WII + PS3 ~= 129 million

Thanks. Thats a good number I wonder if they were able to match 360 software sales again like in Q2?

 

[spwolf]

oh noes, Sony will get some crazy ideas now!

 

[TheRagnCajun]

So Sony's gaming division is finally out of the red. I'm very suprised considering price drop, I thought they would still be selling at a loss. Its amazing how much cost Sony has cut out of their machine since day 1. They may not be the best software company, and they may not be smartest business of the three, but they know how to manufacture electronics.

 

[gofreak]

So Sony's gaming division is finally out of the red. I'm very suprised considering price drop, I thought they would still be selling at a loss. Its amazing how much cost Sony has cut out of their machine since day 1. They may not be the best software company, and they may not be smartest business of the three, but they know how to manufacture electronics.

Q4 software rush has floated their profits... they'll be back in the red next quarter. They undoubtedly are still selling PS3 at a (small) loss, but software has buoyed everything up (along with their increased Vaio sales). IIRC they have jumped back out into profit in previous fiscal Q3s even with much higher PS3 losses then, so...

 

[jvm]

In fairness, I think some people were expecting a slim model back then, some people were expecting a price cut. You could probably count the number of people who expected a simultaneous slim launch and a price cut on one hand.

I'll say that I thought they'd drop the price before introducing a revision as dramatic as the Slim.

They basically relaunched the system: new hardware size, new hardware appearance, new advertising campaign, lowest price we could all reasonably expect. It was a long time coming, and Sony certainly spent their time in purgatory, but it is now paying off as well as I think they could have expected.

 

[jcm]

Q4 software rush has floated their profits... they'll be back in the red next quarter. They undoubtedly are still selling PS3 at a (small) loss, but software has buoyed everything up (along with their increased Vaio sales). IIRC they have jumped back out into profit in previous fiscal Q3s even with much higher PS3 losses then, so...

I don't know whether they'll make money next quarter or not, but when you're selling hardware at or below cost, profits lag hardware sales. The 6.5M new machines will be buying games and accessories in future quarters, and that's where the margins are.

 

[MasterTeacher]

13m should be a lock for the year. It's possible they might actually beat that.

Elios was pretty spot on too:



It'd probably be interesting to go back to when Sony first announced this forecast...

Find the thread please

 

[Shurs]

I think it's time to retire the "Wait For..." chalkboard.

 

[Garjon]

But then we'd get a ...saved the PS3 meme going =/

 

[Mizzou Gaming]

I can see the PS3 being about 3 million behind the 360 globally around this time next year with an eventual take over some time late next year.

Now this is a bet I'll take. People are making these assumptions based on the status quo. MS isn't going to just sit back and watch.

Microsoft will have far more flexibility when it comes to pricing. The 360 did far better than many predicted considering the PS3 was finally at the same pricepoint of the 360. Microsoft will drop the price this year and then there is Natal. That combination has the potential to move a shit ton of 360s.

With that said we are at at the point where this all becomes irrelevant because the race that matters has already been decided. No matter what SONY does from here on out they wont be able to change the fact they will be the only company to lose marketshare this generation and we are talking A LOT of marketshare.

 

[Biff]

If the user history search wasn't disabled (and google search was more comprehensive), I would gladly find my post as a Junior back in the early part of this summer where I said that Sony would have to do ~7 million PS3s in Q3 to hit 13 million, and that they would do it.

I was subsequently ripped to shreds by the next 10 posters.

Feels good, man.

 

[Dunlop]

You are underestimating the effect of 360 bannings (edit: mods, I kid)

Your only hope now is to condemn Sony on their choice to remove the ability to play multi-region BluRays on the PS3

Glad to see the HD twins giving each other a run for the money, it is us who benefit.

2010 should be a great year for gaming

 

[Baki]

If it will sell 120 million units when all is said and done then yes.



It's a shame that MS and now Sony doesn't account their Videogame operations under an unique division.

GBA sold 81.5M units. I don't know where you are getting 120M units from.

PS: here is a source.

 

[Rapping Granny]

So how did they manage to pull off $211 million of profit if they were losing money in every slim they sold? did they recoup that with the software and acessory sales or what?

 

[AndyD]

I think it's time to retire the "Wait For..." chalkboard.

Not yet. I think we need one more quarter of gains. Then we can add a big SAVED to the chalkboard with whatever the last big game will be at the time and retire it to the GAF image database of fun memories and memes.

So how did they manage to pull off $211 million of profit if they were losing money in every slim they sold? did they recoup that with the software and acessory sales or what?

Presumably so. Which is why they said that while they are losing a bit on hardware, we should look at the bigger picture, not just hardware.

Either that or the hardware also dropped and now they are making them and selling at a profit in addition to the software and accessories.

Plus the economy is better, so the yen/dollar/euro exchanges are no longer killing them like before.