ElectricBlanketFire
Member
...so how was Hillary being sarcastic?
Hillary:"Where was Bernie when I got healthcare in 93?" Right there, she thanked him
- Thread starter nynt9
- Start date
- Status
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Who knows, I'm not convinced of how much personal conviction she holds in half of her policies. Whether that makes her a good or a bad liar I can't quite tell. What I do know is that Trump is an awful liar.
lol
do you realize everything he has promised has been done in all the other developed countries in the world? And even in most South American countries.
You have believed the lies of Hillary about USA not being able to offer their citizens some basic stuff the other countries of the world are able to. Just because. Just because it wouldn't benefit the people she's representing.
Triplicates
Member
She also fakes a drawl for Southern audiences, and she was named after Sir Edmund Hillary many years before he climbed Everest. Too bad more Democrats didn't have the guts to push back against her supposed inevitability like the Republicans who ignored Jeb Bush. The party can surely do better.
She was being sarcastic, but the question was also justified. Don't you get it?
I don't.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Judging from the number of people who are buying everything he says, I would say at this point Trump is an amazing liar.
She's just such a phony.
Brutalitops
Banned
All she has to do is shut up and she has the nomination.
Shut up Hillary
Shut up Hillary
When you stan to the end.
I like how he dismissed Bernie's contribution because he wasn't "in the line of fire", that he was "nice and safe in Vermont", as if it's his fault that he wasn't married to the POTUS, as if what he did back then was irrelevant because he wasn't powerful enough to be the main target.
Counter intellectualism at its best.
RustyNails
Member
It was called hillarycare. Google it. Its well documented.
Schweinehund
Member
This is the first election where I've felt like I can't associate with the two frontrunners.
Lmao. Does she think no one will notice? Such a phony. I'm not sure how someone can actively prefer her. Even if you don't like Bernie, there are tons of better people out there. Unfortunately, we have to settle for Hillary for some reason. She just says what people want to hear. It's really a mystery what she is doing this all for.
I get the feeling that there is more Trump in her than people realize. To her it might just be one giant game that she has to "win". And also say/do what's necessary in order to get what they want.
Wait, so on the one hand you say it's republican propaganda that Hillary is a liar but then you call her a liar yourself?
There is no point trying to defend her here. Hillary just screwed up. I don't think she is so stupid as to think people wouldn't unearth this. She probably forgot this was even out there to be unearthed. Disappointing, but I'm still voting for her on Tuesday.
I agree with those that think Bernie is promising things he simply can't achieve. Congress won't approve anything he is proposing. At best he becomes an ineffective one term president. At worst - and this is my real fear - he loses in a landslide in the general election.
Republicans haven't really tried all that hard to attack him. They know Hillary well and despise her. She is who they have been preparing for. Why do you think it's Hillary's name that gets mentioned in all of the GOP debates or Romney's speech? Bernie has kind of come out of nowhere and they still don't expect him to be the nominee.
If he is he will fall under withering attack for being a "socialist". More videos like the Castro one in the last debate will be unearthed. I just don't think there is any way he survives that.
For all of Hillary's faults I'll still take her over any of the GOP candidates.
I agree with those that think Bernie is promising things he simply can't achieve. Congress won't approve anything he is proposing. At best he becomes an ineffective one term president. At worst - and this is my real fear - he loses in a landslide in the general election.
Republicans haven't really tried all that hard to attack him. They know Hillary well and despise her. She is who they have been preparing for. Why do you think it's Hillary's name that gets mentioned in all of the GOP debates or Romney's speech? Bernie has kind of come out of nowhere and they still don't expect him to be the nominee.
If he is he will fall under withering attack for being a "socialist". More videos like the Castro one in the last debate will be unearthed. I just don't think there is any way he survives that.
For all of Hillary's faults I'll still take her over any of the GOP candidates.
Other countries aren't the United States. Bernie is running for president, not Wizard-King. While I have no doubt in my head that he wants to make good on his promises, he's not going to have the political will to get it done. That's just the reality of the times we live in.
This has been a pretty distressing thread to read through, especially after making the mistake of watching the Trump rally yesterday. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I really do feel like we're setting ourselves up to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Dirtyshubb
Member
Teehee
It's amazing how progressive and intellectual you think gaf is only to see people constantly believing people like Clinton who are not only obviously phoney but also can't see how this type of politician will do 'progresive and good' policies but never mention the almost certain backdoors that are counter productive to the whole point and making things worse than they already are. All this of course because of legal bribery from special interest groups.
How anyone can say with a straight face 'i don't feel the fact Hillary received $15 million dollars in campaign funds from banks impacts her credibility in bringing them under control' and not feel ashamed of themselves. There are so many examples of her being a traditional politician that is only out for their own legacy and power and not the people.
Some say its better to have her instead of Sanders because 'she gets things done' but wouldn't you rather have someone who is fully looking out for your best interests instead of someone who throws a few crumbs and gives the most to their rich friends?
Sounds like a Trump speech. There is so much overlap between Trump and Bernie's appeal, if not their constituencies. Very interesting.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Obviously, since their both anti-establishment, the difference is one is a raging racist and xenophobe and the other isn't.
jediyoshi
Member
Is the extent of their appeal on social issues that both of them discuss race? Like, they discuss it a bunch as a talking point to rally people, and that's the overlap? What's the distinction you're making between that and other common talking points?
It's really mind blowing to me. It's like Hillary actually is making their supporters think that they are not good enough to have what Bernie promises, so they have to be realistic and take her.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Goddamn it. I was happy with Hillary, but ever since shes come under pressure from Sanders she really showed some ugly moves.
This move is scummy, the attacks on Sanders civil rights stance is scummy, the "bernie bro" narrative is scummy and in the last debate he attacked her on her Wall Street donations and she said these donations came in because of her reaction to 9/11... wtf kinda bullshit response is that. She also said that about 60% of her donors are women in an attempt to dispels Sanders point that she is influence by corporate interest, but thats also misleading because obviously the millions of dollars she gets from corporations and billionairs only count as one donation each, but they amount to a much bigger percentage of her total campaign funds.
I'm not exactly a fan of Sanders(even though I think social democracy is the right way for the US, I think Sanders approach isn't very well thought out), but I would wish Clinton would attack him based on the issues and not based on this nonesense.
Sanders' attacks on Clinton are all justified. She might not like beeing attacked based on her ties to Wall Street, but thats a very legitimate point and not foul play by Sanders at all.
This move is scummy, the attacks on Sanders civil rights stance is scummy, the "bernie bro" narrative is scummy and in the last debate he attacked her on her Wall Street donations and she said these donations came in because of her reaction to 9/11... wtf kinda bullshit response is that. She also said that about 60% of her donors are women in an attempt to dispels Sanders point that she is influence by corporate interest, but thats also misleading because obviously the millions of dollars she gets from corporations and billionairs only count as one donation each, but they amount to a much bigger percentage of her total campaign funds.
I'm not exactly a fan of Sanders(even though I think social democracy is the right way for the US, I think Sanders approach isn't very well thought out), but I would wish Clinton would attack him based on the issues and not based on this nonesense.
Sanders' attacks on Clinton are all justified. She might not like beeing attacked based on her ties to Wall Street, but thats a very legitimate point and not foul play by Sanders at all.
SolidSnakex
Member
The amazing thing is that she actually continued to lie and make shit up after being caught. She claimed that she was sleep deprived when she said that. Except CBS has videos showing that she told the same damn story over the course of several months. After the "sleep deprivation" bullshit she claimed that the greeting ceremony was moved away from the tarmac, but there was a little girl there so she had to meet her, but after that she was quickly moved into a vehicle to leave. But CBS again has video showing her greeting troops, taking photos, and meeting children. She leaves after that but she's in no rush at any point.
To think that during 08 the rest of the world was envious of us because we had Obama as a candidate. Now they must be laughing at us because our choices are a racist/sexist and a liar. I understand how Republicans ended up with Trump because that's really what the party has been trending toward by letting the Tea Party get out of control. But how did Democrats end up with Hillary? How is that leaders of the party weren't on their hands and knees begging Elizabeth Warren to run? She's basically the perfect candidate to follow Obama.
Dirtyshubb
Member
I can't stand trump and am totally against him but the reason he is doing so well is precisely because he is targeting the established elite in business and politics. Of course it's all bullshit but America seems ready to finally stand up against the current system and there are 2 people offering that.
Some people, probably either poorly educated or just unwilling to research his clear lies are drawn to trumps message, anyone else who knows that he could be the next Hitler are going for Sanders. I know it's easy to mix the two groups when online but there is a clear difference. There will be some idiots who would rather vote trump than Clinton but that isn't representative of the whole fanbase.
The take away here is that the American people know that things need to change, and what needs to happen is Sanders wins because there is a real chance trump beats Clinton. Yes she will call him out on his lies bit he will do the same to her and she runs the risk of being seen as just as bad as him and if you have to vote for either why not go the one who says he will change things?
i_am_ben
running_here_and_there
yeah...... they did.
Glorified G
Member
There is a reason why she has 50%+ unfavorable rating with the general public. Outside of hardened Democrats no one really trusts her.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I would say that Trump and Bernie appeal to very similar constituencies, just on different ends of the traditional political spectrum.
If you imagine an alternative political map where one side has 'establishment' and the other has 'insurgent', then you would find Trump and Bernie on the 'insurgent' side and the likes of Hillary and Jeb Bush and Marco Roboto on the 'establishment' side.
There's a reason why some of the Bernie supporters have said they would rather vote for Trump than Hillary. It all depends on whether you value being 'insurgent' more than 'progressive'.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
I respect that she changes her views and statements to generally more reasonable ones, but she flips around and makes questionable statements waaay to much for me believe she's often just pivoting because she's getting flak rather than any other reason. So yeah I don't trust her either.
Good thing for her she's likely up against Trump, the least trustworthy person on this goddamn planet.
King Tubby
Member
Dr_LucienSanchez
Banned
After things like Bosnia sniper fire and Sir Edmund Hillary, I figured that she would've somehow gotten better at this.
If you take the hate out of Trump, there isn't much Trump left is there?
Already Torn
Banned
It could also be that Democrats care more about honesty so a lie/fib on the Democratic side is more impactful than one from the Republican side.
Remember how Romney would lie at every opportunity? The ONLY time a lie hurt him was during the debate where he was fact checked by the moderator (the "Please proceed, Governor" exchange) and that was only because of the immediate exposing of that one.
Romney was running a "Say anything 2012" campaign and it drove Democrats crazy while Republicans just didn't give a shit about things like honesty. Trump, Cruz, Rubio are just natural extensions of that.
If you live in one of many states where the electoral college renders your vote for president irrelevant, just write somebody in and cast informed votes for the races on the rest of your ballot.
Better for the soul.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Her campaign slogan should be "HIllary: it's inevitable (^: "
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
SilentRacoon
Member
Yes indeed, she should remain the double crossed snake she has always been, that's who people want to vote for anyways.
elrechazado
Banned
Sarcasm??? Oh Hillary supporters you are so cute and desperate.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
It's physically impossible to buy everything he says when it contradicts so much. People like the idea of Trump, which easily removes all those annoying kinks like consistent logic.
He's a master of selling himself to certain types of people, but there's no intricacy or depth to his lies. To a person that hasn't bought into trump his lies fall flat.
To his core cult basically it doesn't actually matter what he's saying, they've bought in that deeply. The thing is that cult has a threshold, and he's not been very sucessful so far at surpassing it.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Exactly. She should just be in run out the clock mode.
Byakuya769
Member
So many unforced errors.
I thought Trump and Sanders only inspired such zealotry due their populist messages but nope Hillary lovers are seemingly as die hard
Sorry, I went to bed. This is basically a difference of semantic framing at this point. You say he didn't address issues, I say he did but his approach differed from what others thought need happen. There is a difference between ignoring, and simply not having the policies that are wanted by people. As for your question. I see what you're trying to do by asking that. I'm not going to sit around and pigeonhole the black voting bloc into a single characterization. If that's how you read my comment then you're missing the distinction. My whole point was that the blacks votes for which he isn't winning, is the result of people who self-determinately hold a different political conviction based on the content of his proposals. It's a very simple claim to make, and it's practically stating the obvious as how these things work. It's the issues that divide people.
By law systemic racism is illegal and considered discrimination and prejudice. You already aren't allowed to do it. But it happens. So you'd need to police these things. Bernie knows how much of a long shot this is. Law enforcement is riddled with its own problems. So he is approaching the whole thing economically. Economics are the most important way to improve people's social mobility, the get them out from under the leverage of systemic racism. You can't control people to prevent racism. I don't know where you stand on the nature of racism. But minorities absolutely can be racist. Whites however don't feel systemic racism to a great extent because they aren't economically disenfranchised because of it. Empowering blacks and other minorities economically is the most important step in side-stepping the power standings in this country which allow racism to be enacted through institutional powers. It's the step that diminishes the generational effects of racism.
This isn't a claim of anyone voting against their interests, because I'm well aware that true economic change is many years off. Especially given the current politics of the right. So I understand how Hillary might be the more pragmatic option in the eyes of people. I do prefer Sanders and I don't think he won't be pragmatic in taking steps. I simply differ from people who support Hillary because of an approach on the issues. Now we are getting back to this notion of differing issues. Which was all I claimed in the start. But if you still want to say Sanders blatantly ignored system racism, then I guess we disagree. I hope we can at least agree that people don't offer support if they feel a candidate's stance on issues aren't right for them. You don't even have to say how they differ, merely that they do, in order to understand why a candidate hasn't won a particular demographic.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
We're dealing with potentially the first female president, you'd be wrong.
Dirtyshubb
Member
That's the joke of it all, Sanders fans get accused of being fanboys all time time and Clinton fans act like their decisions are based on logic when if you actually looked at the facts and followed logic you wouldn't believe a word that comes out of Clintons mouth.
- Status